An Bord Snip Nua Report - Cut In Garda Pay Allowances Suggested

djtechnics1210 · 29-07-2009 11:32PM

+1 NGA

brayblue24 · 30-07-2009 12:09AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Absolutely, it could get very messy, it is a time in fact that in my opinion instead of closing down part time stations they should be turning them into full time stations. But we do have to ask the question why are the resources so poorly distributed. How many cars do they have in DMR east? How many in Tallaght. Id safely say they have more cars in DMR East than Tallaght and that Tallaght does more calls on an 8 hour shift. Im also not impressed with alot of DDU, SRU, Compol units. They dont do their fair share if you ask me. It can be damn hard to get a divisional traffic unit do an accident even when the regular unit is tied up. These things have nothing to do with cut backs

Thanks. Glad to have people like you on my side. People posting here trying to defend the organisation against another unjust savaging and you start demonising your colleagues? Well done mate. That's a generalised, sweeping statement, I assume based on perceived personal, localised experience that has no place in this thread. Read the initial heading before you start diverting with this nonsense. What you have said here is for a private forum. Guff like this does nobody any good and is not suitable material for a public forum. If you have a grievance report it through the internal channels.

Mods, if I get a warning for this I accept it in advance.

Paulzx · 30-07-2009 12:18AM

At this stage all the emergency service workers earn to much arguements are tiresome. I'm sick of listening to di**heads tell me i'm a drain on the state. These are the very people who laughed at our wages during the boom and wouldn't have dreamed at doing the job for the renumeration offered. The salary was below them.

I keep away from these threads generally but have decided to comment here. To all the ES workers reading this thread i would say don't bother replying any more. You do not have to justify your wages. If you do your job correctly and to the best of your ability that is justification enough. If you don't bother your bo**ox then be it on your conscience.

I never thought that begrudgery in Ireland would extend to people that just happen to have a job.

brayblue24 · 30-07-2009 12:42AM

Paulzx wrote: »

At this stage all the emergency service workers earn to much arguements are tiresome. I'm sick of listening to di**heads tell me i'm a drain on the state. These are the very people who laughed at our wages during the boom and wouldn't have dreamed at doing the job for the renumeration offered. The salary was below them.

I keep away from these threads generally but have decided to comment here. To all the ES workers reading this thread i would say don't bother replying any more. You do not have to justify your wages. If you do your job correctly and to the best of your ability that is justification enough. If you don't bother your bo**ox then be it on your conscience.

I never thought that begrudgery in Ireland would extend to people that just happen to have a job.

Succinct reply. Couldn't have put it better myself and fully agree with your sentiments. No, I'm not going to apologise for having a job I do to the best of my ability-despite everything, and yeah here ends my contribution to this thread too.

Wheely · 30-07-2009 12:49AM

TheNog wrote: »

Have you actually looked at the wages of English Police?

here it is from the Met Police from their website

as you can see their wages are far above that of ours

Oh but we do have an understanding of the dire state of the country and as I have already said we have already forfeited about 25% of our wages so far.

Is their anything else you would like us to give up?

I dont think we have perks in AGS. The allowances we have left are part of our wages, always have been.

.

Look here, you can't have it bloody both ways. You maintain that the WAGES paid to the MET are, and I quote, "far above that of yours", and then go on to say the allowances are part of your wages and indistinguishable therefrom. Comparing a salary with your "wages" is not like with like but you're trying to justify a cut in social welfare by misrepresenting figures which you claim prove the MET are paid more than the Gardai which the dogs in the street know is untrue.

Lets look at it then.

"Average weekly earnings for An Garda Síochána, inclusive
of overtime, fell by 4% from €1,226.16 to €1,177.54 per week. However, their
weekly earnings excluding overtime rose by 1.9% from €1,054.34 to €1,074.04 for
the same period."

The figure in the bold is what correlates most to the figures given by you, inclusive of your overtime in 2008, the wages you quoted regarding the MET for 2008 was 22,104 sterling or at the top end £31,176.

By the CSO report I quoted above average Gardai "wages" work out to be 63,760.32 euro per annum for the same period.

And stop going on about the income levy as if its a cut in your wages that no-one else has received, it was applied across the board-you're not being victimised. Its a bloody tax increase. The Gardai are an overpaid force, maybe you're not, but the force as a whole are. As are the public sector. Get over it. Stop hearing violins for Christs sake. They're not playing for you.

Wheely · 30-07-2009 12:54AM

brayblue24 wrote: »

Thanks. Glad to have people like you on my side. People posting here trying to defend the organisation against another unjust savaging and you start demonising your colleagues? Well done mate. That's a generalised, sweeping statement, I assume based on perceived personal, localised experience that has no place in this thread. Read the initial heading before you start diverting with this nonsense. What you have said here is for a private forum. Guff like this does nobody any good and is not suitable material for a public forum. If you have a grievance report it through the internal channels.

Mods, if I get a warning for this I accept it in advance.

God forbid one of your own highlights some ineptitude in "the organisation" eh? Your right report it through internal channels, they've been stellar in the past. Thou shalt not breach the blue wall.

Wheely · 30-07-2009 12:57AM

Paulzx wrote: »

At this stage all the emergency service workers earn to much arguements are tiresome. I'm sick of listening to di**heads tell me i'm a drain on the state. These are the very people who laughed at our wages during the boom and wouldn't have dreamed at doing the job for the renumeration offered. The salary was below them.

I keep away from these threads generally but have decided to comment here. To all the ES workers reading this thread i would say don't bother replying any more. You do not have to justify your wages. If you do your job correctly and to the best of your ability that is justification enough. If you don't bother your bo**ox then be it on your conscience.

I never thought that begrudgery in Ireland would extend to people that just happen to have a job.

That's not what I meant to be doing. What pisses me off is when those who HAVE a job start to "begrudge" the people who can't get one and are forced to live on 200 euro a week and start advocating cuts in welfare benefits. THAT'S what annoys me.

FGR · 30-07-2009 01:02AM

Wheely wrote: »

"Average weekly earnings for An Garda Síochána, inclusive
of overtime, fell by 4% from €1,226.16 to €1,177.54 per week. However, their
weekly earnings excluding overtime rose by 1.9% from €1,054.34 to €1,074.04 for
the same period."

Would you please provide us with the average earnings of a London Met officer, then, please; including overtime and those who are not just of constable rank?

You cannot honestly think that frontline members at simple Garda rank are taking home that much on average, do you?

Bear in mind there's a rank structure and many men/women of senior years service. There are commissioners who are on 100k+.

You simply cannot compare the average bobby's salary in the UK with the overall average earnings of every rank combined in the guards.

Apples and Oranges.

djtechnics1210 · 30-07-2009 01:15AM

Wheely wrote: »

Your right report it through internal channels, they've been stellar in the past. Thou shalt not breach the blue wall.

What exactly are you trying to imply with that comment?????

Wheely · 30-07-2009 07:44AM

ForegoneReality wrote: »

Would you please provide us with the average earnings of a London Met officer, then, please; including overtime and those who are not just of constable rank?

You cannot honestly think that frontline members at simple Garda rank are taking home that much on average, do you?

Bear in mind there's a rank structure and many men/women of senior years service. There are commissioners who are on 100k+.

You simply cannot compare the average bobby's salary in the UK with the overall average earnings of every rank combined in the guards.

Apples and Oranges.

Whatever. I didn't say the average rank and file garda was taking that home. Read my post, I conceded that the Nog mightn't even be taking that home but that the force as a whole was overpaid. And I'm fully aware the figures aren't directly comparable. I was pointing out the attempted misrepresentation by the Nog to make out how underpaid the Garda were compared to the Met. But then again that's absolutley clear if you read my post.

Wheely · 30-07-2009 07:44AM

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

What exactly are you trying to imply with that comment?????

Take from it what you will.

30-07-2009 11:09AM

brayblue24 wrote: »

Thanks. Glad to have people like you on my side. People posting here trying to defend the organisation against another unjust savaging and you start demonising your colleagues? Well done mate. That's a generalised, sweeping statement, I assume based on perceived personal, localised experience that has no place in this thread. Read the initial heading before you start diverting with this nonsense. What you have said here is for a private forum. Guff like this does nobody any good and is not suitable material for a public forum. If you have a grievance report it through the internal channels.

Mods, if I get a warning for this I accept it in advance.

Its relevant to the thread. We can do more with what we have.
How many people do you come across who have lost interest in the job? Especially among the older members. A earlier retirement age would, in my opinion, save alot of money and benefit the force with fresher thinking. If there are cutbacks to be made we should be trying to see how we can improve working conditions for ourselves. A happy worker is a productive worker. The late-early changeover in my opinion is unnecessary, we should have purpose built patrol cars, use GIS in command and control and at district level, just a few things that would make life for the ordinary Garda better. Improved efficiency will negate the need for harsher cuts.

And a lack of transparency is part of the problem

brayblue24 · 30-07-2009 03:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Its relevant to the thread. We can do more with what we have.
How many people do you come across who have lost interest in the job? Especially among the older members. A earlier retirement age would, in my opinion, save alot of money and benefit the force with fresher thinking. If there are cutbacks to be made we should be trying to see how we can improve working conditions for ourselves. A happy worker is a productive worker. The late-early changeover in my opinion is unnecessary, we should have purpose built patrol cars, use GIS in command and control and at district level, just a few things that would make life for the ordinary Garda better. Improved efficiency will negate the need for harsher cuts.

And a lack of transparency is part of the problem

Despite saying I wouldn't I will reply here. I agree with all you say here-absolutely 100%. My beef with the original statement was somebody coming on a public forum with perceived notions about who has what cars etc. MY point is I have no idea how many cars are in Tallaght, as was quoted. There are regular audits to decide how best to use the fleet. How can this poster know how many mobiles are in DMR East? I serve there and I have absolutely no idea how many there are so how could he possibly know? That's what I meant about sweeping, generalised statements.
Same reply to the other poster who took exception to my post. This is about a possible cut in rent allowance after Bord Snip, not decideing who has the best cars.
Nice Guy Always methinks was right about it turning to bickery....

30-07-2009 03:39PM

Wheely wrote: »

"Average weekly earnings for An Garda Síochána, inclusive of overtime, fell by 4% from €1,226.16 to €1,177.54 per week. However, their weekly earnings excluding overtime rose by 1.9% from €1,054.34 to €1,074.04 for
the same period."

Where and how do I claim the €600 per week that I haven't been getting?

the locust · 30-07-2009 03:45PM

Wheely wrote: »

"Average weekly earnings for An Garda Síochána, inclusive
of overtime, fell by 4% from €1,226.16 to €1,177.54 per week. However, their
weekly earnings excluding overtime rose by 1.9% from €1,054.34 to €1,074.04 for
the same period."

Mate, i'd be lucky to get between 300-350 a week.

Shield · 30-07-2009 04:46PM

Guys I need to step in here.

This thread has taken a very sour turn for the worse. People's emotions are getting the better of them, and it's showing in their posts - no names being mentioned.

Please let's steer this back on topic, and stop the petty bickering about who does or doesn't get what allowances. That's not what this thread is about.

If you cannot put your case forward in a respectful manner, don't post.
If your emotions are getting the better of you, don't post.
If you are unemployed/have taken a recent pay cut, and you are looking to vent, don't post.

However, if you have a valid point, and are willing lay it out clearly and succinctly, with substance to your argument, your post is welcome and encouraged in this thread.

Thanks.

westcoastboy · 30-07-2009 05:26PM

It is very hard to compare the wages of a UK Policeman/woman to their counterpart over here because of many differnet factors such as the cost of going to the Doctor maybe be up to €70 here and free over in the Uk (and many other EU countries) and the cost of housing is far higher here than in most parts of the UK..

An Bord Snip's figures have been shown to be inaccurate in many instances such as the numbers employed in the NTMA which it listed as 216 when 153 were employed there and that Irish teachers teach far less than in other EU countries.. when it has been proven that they don't..
Brian Lenihan wants his ministers and higher Civil Servants to take a 20% drop in pay..he'll want all civil servants to do the same!

At the end of the day most Public and private sector workers didn't cause this ..it was the Goverment and the Banks through bad financial management and greed that caused it..

Why should we pay our Taoiseach a quarter of a million a year ..for what ..why is his salary worth the wages of five nurses.. a he's still drawing down a Govt pension

The developers and banks made massive profits during the boom times Bank of Ireland (which like RyanAir has a lot of foreign shareholders) made at least €500 milllion a year in profits , did they share those profits with the Irish taxpayer, no they repatriated them back to their home country..
Country is ran like a joke.. Children's wards closed in Crumlin, but ministers still insist in been Helicoptered or whisked around in Mercedes,,

And Guess what,, the majority of us elected them. these people we call our TD's..

30-07-2009 11:26PM

brayblue24 wrote: »

Despite saying I wouldn't I will reply here. I agree with all you say here-absolutely 100%. My beef with the original statement was somebody coming on a public forum with perceived notions about who has what cars etc. MY point is I have no idea how many cars are in Tallaght, as was quoted. There are regular audits to decide how best to use the fleet. How can this poster know how many mobiles are in DMR East? I serve there and I have absolutely no idea how many there are so how could he possibly know? That's what I meant about sweeping, generalised statements.
Same reply to the other poster who took exception to my post. This is about a possible cut in rent allowance after Bord Snip, not decideing who has the best cars.
Nice Guy Always methinks was right about it turning to bickery....

ok this is not perceived notions, you or any other Garda who works in a DMR station can check the C&C computer and have a look at the resources. The type RH for each of the MA units and count the calls at the end of a shift. Go check the resource history for some DMR East units and not to be picking on the DMR East units in fact it would be more appropriate to go checkin up on the units who are never logged on. Now Ive said more than enough on this subject. You know well what Im sayin. This is appropriate to the thread despite it goin on the tangent. We can do more with the same number of Gardai with a change in management and I would of said a change in strategy but we dont really have one do we

brayblue24 · 31-07-2009 12:31AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Now Ive said more than enough on this subject.

Well, you got that bit right!!

(I know PSNI, I know, I read the warning!)

BlackWizard · 31-07-2009 10:36AM

brayblue24 wrote: »

Well, you got that bit right!!

(I know PSNI, I know, I read the warning!)

From someone who knows nothing about how the Gardai are run and only have to go by the rumours of wasted resources and bad management with staff who fear any type of change, you really fit the bill for an average Garda.

blindjustice posts seem to be level headed and pretty basic suggestions for any business. But for the Gardai, I guess the speculation and rumours of the service being mismanaged seems to be correct on many levels.

brayblue24 · 31-07-2009 11:58AM

BlackWizard wrote: »

From someone who knows nothing about how the Gardai are run and only have to go by the rumours of wasted resources and bad management with staff who fear any type of change, you really fit the bill for an average Garda.

blindjustice posts seem to be level headed and pretty basic suggestions for any business. But for the Gardai, I guess the speculation and rumours of the service being mismanaged seems to be correct on many levels.

Look, obviously it's hard to get one's tone across on a keyboard, I accept that. I even agree with you that blindjustice' posts are level headed in many, but not all, parts. In fact, in another place I would have clear and very similar opinions regarding what he is saying. I'm around long enough to know how Garda management "works". My point to him and, indeed, to other members of AGS posting here is that the same freedom of expression does not apply to us, much as we might want it to and it's for that reason alone I don't think that what he is saying is for broadcast here but it's just my opinion, it doesn't mean it's right.
My stance here is, and always has been, if I have a point to make to defend the organisation I will but if someone-other than a member-justifiably denegrates us then I remain silent. I have to-Mr. McDowell said so:(

Now back to join Paulzx on the fence again-sorry to have abandoned you Paul:)

deadwood · 31-07-2009 12:09PM

Why are guards the only ones who are happy to complain about their salaries and then feel the need to list every penny and allowance they earn?

Always was and ever shall be, I guess, in good times and bad.

This is real pub talk stuff and not suitable for discussion here.

TheNog · 31-07-2009 03:48PM

This thread has run its course now and before people get themselves infracted or banned Im going to close it.

An Bord Snip Nua Report - Cut In Garda Pay Allowances Suggested

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