An Bord Snip Nua Report - Cut In Garda Pay Allowances Suggested

jonsnow

bo-bo wrote: »

it makes me angry at those looking in and pontificating about how emergency service workers should be paid this that or the other.

Yeah how dare taxpayers criticise how their money is spent.You,re a taxpayer too!Well feel free to criticise the pay of TDs, Senators, hospital consultants, bankers or whoever gets money from your taxes that you feel is overpaid -thats your right.It makes me angry to see gardai claiming allowances such as these so I,m going to pontificate about it.

Garda allowances: what they can claim
Rent Allowance (€58.9m in 2008)
“Whatever about the historical origins of this allowance, it is essentially treated as part of pay and is paid to every member up to and including Chief Superintendent.”Historical practice dating from an early 20th century police force.Has no place in the 21st century.This basically arose where some Guards lived in a barracks and those that didn,t recieved a rent allowance.As no guards now live in barracks none should recieve rent allowance.


Premium Payments (€9.07m)
“Paid to members who are on leave [who] would ordinarily be entitled to claim unsocial hours allowance if they were not on leave.” But you,re on leave you,re not working unsocial hours why should you get this!


Clerical Allowance (€2.07m)
“Paid to officers engaged in clerical duties to compensate for loss of other allowances, particularly unsocial hours.” So if you don,t want to work unsocial hours you get compensated!



Plain Clothes Allowance (€1.9m)
“Paid in lieu of uniform allowance for maintenance of plain clothes – clothes not provided.” Why the hell should plain clothes be subsidised.Rubbish.

bo-bo wrote: »

a few points id like to raise:

- the fact of the matter is that we are not renumerated enough in an overall context. i earn a very average wage by private sector standards before allowances and tax. for that paltry sum ive been assaulted numerous times, had numerous injuries and had myself and my family threatened.

You earn a good living by any standard.You don,t earn a paltry sum.You do put up with more hassle than the average punter granted.But you are well renumerated compared to other western police forces and compared to american police forces.Many of these forces especially the US cops put up with far more danger and are paid considerably less.

bo-bo wrote: »

- i chose to be a garda and i made that decision based on the benefits/package/renumeration on offer. why should i and my colleagues be demonised for trying to hang on to what we've got.

Well fair play for admitting that you made the decision to be a guard based on the benefits/package/remuneration.So many ES personnel on boards go on about their job being a "calling" as if they were Mother Teresa or something.

No-ones demonising you but Guards are well paid,have a permanent position and a great pension.The countrys in crisis and everyone has to make sacrifices.Being asked to give up some ridiculous allowances isn,t a big one given what other people are sacrificing.If you don,t (and plenty of others too) the countrys going to go bankrupt, the IMF will come in and it will really cut your wages

bo-bo wrote: »

- its been put to us that if were not happy walk away. there are plenty of people in the private sector who would love our job. i would love for anyone in the private sector to have a go at my job and see how long they would last.

The majority of people in the private sector could do your job and they could do it for 30 years too.Gardai are not some sort of supermen

djtechnics1210

Jonsnow whats makes you think half the private sector would even get into ags. Loads of lads i know with very good jobs in private sector couldn't get into ags. Plain clothes allowance is paid because your wearing your own clothes and you have to buy suits to wear to court. The allowance for the year wouldn't cover 1 suit never mind jeans etc for work everyday. The plain clothes allowance is feck all anyway. The alternative is that the job give members jeans, polo shirts, hoodies etc, which is gonna cost them a fortune. Iv had very good clothes and once a suit destroyed from blood, sick etc etc. So im entitled to an allowance for my plain clothes. I got an allowance for the upkeep of my uniform and boots when i was in uniform.

Wheely

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

Jonsnow whats makes you think half the private sector would even get into ags. Loads of lads i know with very good jobs in private sector couldn't get into ags..

Fair enough. With hard data like this at your disposal I can't argue. You can't argue with statistics can you. If "loads of lads you know" couldnt get in then that settles it. I stand corrected.

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

Plain clothes allowance is paid because your wearing your own clothes and you have to buy suits to wear to court. The allowance for the year wouldn't cover 1 suit never mind jeans etc for work everyday. The plain clothes allowance is feck all anyway. The alternative is that the job give members jeans, polo shirts, hoodies etc, which is gonna cost them a fortune. Iv had very good clothes and once a suit destroyed from blood, sick etc etc. So im entitled to an allowance for my plain clothes. I got an allowance for the upkeep of my uniform and boots when i was in uniform.

Jesus that's actually warped. I TOO Have to wear suits to work, guess what? I BUY THEM OUT OF MY SALARY! I dont get a seperate allowance for them. It's actually ridiculous. Your sense of entitlement is phenomonal.

djtechnics1210

How are ya supposed to have hard facts when its people i know???
Do you want me to all sign up and come on here and tell ya...... Get real lad will ya.
Im sure a lot of other members here will tell ya they also know people that couldn't get into ags.


Ya well ags is a uniform organisation and you are entitled to a uniform and boot allowance to go toward the upkeep of them.
When you go into plain clothes you lose the uniform allowance and then get a plain clothes allowance.

Are you saying there should be no uniform or boot allowance either???

I suppose you want the fire brigade, prison officers and ambulance lads to lose their allowances too,

oh and do you deal with druggies and criminals in your suits you buy out of your salary..,, are you gonna get sick, blood etc on your suits in work.........I doubt it very much.

So your suits will last you a very long time.

If i get blood on a suit from someone that is hep or hiv that suit is gonna have to be destroyed......
Thats why i and other plain clothes members are ENTITLED to an allowance.

timmywex

Wheely wrote: »

Jesus that's actually warped. I TOO Have to wear suits to work, guess what? I BUY THEM OUT OF MY SALARY! I dont get a seperate allowance for them. It's actually ridiculous. Your sense of entitlement is phenomonal.

As djtechniques1210 pointed out,


When you sit in an office in a lovely new suit, theres not much harm in its way.

Now imagine a garda doing his job, getting spat at, blood, chasing suspects, jumping walls, and all the wear and tear that comes with that work. Thats why theres an allowance. Your suit may last you years, a garda's could only last days or weeks before theres a hole in the trouser or something worse even

Shield

Wheely wrote: »

Fair enough. With hard data like this at your disposal I can't argue. You can't argue with statistics can you. If "loads of lads you know" couldnt get in then that settles it. I stand corrected.

Wheely: This is a discussion forum, not a court of law. If you are looking for every post on this forum to be backed up with official statistics, you should prepare yourself for disappointment.

AlekSmart

It`s interesting to note how this thread is polarizing.
I posted a while back on the associated aspect of the level of preparedness (or lack thereof) for widespread Public Order problems in the wake of cut`s in Social Funding.

Now it seems to me that there is a significant hardening of attitude in the ES arena towards wholesale cuts in wages and allowances particularly for AGS Members.

There remains a very pertinent question as to what sort of force do they expect to enforce the unpopular aspects of Social Cutback related occurrences.

Evictions,for example,will all to shortly start to rear their ugly heads and mark you,the baliffs will be going in WITH Garda backup.
Corporate liquidations and associated seizures which will directly involve confrontation with workers will require Garda backup also and this IS one very large Growth area going forward (as Charles McCreevy might say )

I wonder if our current administration have given ANY thought to the actual mechanics of running a depressed country especially when the Architects of the depression maintain their memberships of Golf Clubs and continue their comfortable ifestyles as if nothing happened.

I found it less than comforting to see such an obviously well heeled and comprehensively tanned Peter Bacon wagging a disapproving finger in my direction from the McGill Summer School and when we consider that the current administration is hell-bent on keeping the well-helled equally well shod at the expense of the ordinary folk then the Gardai are going to really have their committment towards Community Policing put to the test ?? :mad:

AlekSmart

AlekSmart wrote: »

It`s interesting to note how this thread is polarizing.
I posted a while back on the associated aspect of the level of preparedness (or lack thereof) for widespread Public Order problems in the wake of cut`s in Social Funding.

Now it seems to me that there is a significant hardening of attitude in the ES arena towards wholesale cuts in wages and allowances particularly for AGS Members.

There remains a very pertinent question as to what sort of force do they expect to enforce the unpopular aspects of Social Cutback related occurrences.

Evictions,for example,will all to shortly start to rear their ugly heads and mark you,the baliffs will be going in WITH Garda backup.
Corporate liquidations and associated seizures which will directly involve confrontation with workers will require Garda backup also and this IS one very large Growth area going forward (as Charles McCreevy might say )

I wonder if our current administration have given ANY thought to the actual mechanics of running a depressed country especially when the Architects of the depression maintain their memberships of Golf Clubs and continue their comfortable ifestyles as if nothing happened.

I found it less than comforting to see such an obviously well heeled and comprehensively tanned Peter Bacon wagging a disapproving finger in my direction from the McGill Summer School and when we consider that the current administration is hell-bent on keeping the well-helled equally well shod at the expense of the ordinary folk then the Gardai are going to really have their committment towards Community Policing put to the test ?? :mad:

Well with attitudes like this:

The point I am trying to make to those who say we are living beyond our means and these cuts are needed, how would you feel if the Gardai were turned into a money making racket? You would not be happy at all. Just as we are not happy to be part of the ones on the chopping block who they are using to try save money (while lining their own pockets) when there are many middle management postions taking up too much expenses.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61214448&postcount=76

Someone struggling to pay the mortgage will leave the tax on the car go out if the choice becomes mortgage or motor tax. If Gardai protest pay cuts they lose all moral ground.

7mountpleasant

Just read this thread obviosuly not an emergency services worker/ public sector worker amazed by the lack of comprehension of the real world, we are borrowing €400 million a week to fund public sector wages yet some of ye are threatening to go on strike if your Rent Alowance is taken!, get real for ffs, I don't wish a pay cut on anyone but for the love of god cop on there is 0 and I mean 0 public support from the community for this type of naked self interest, ye are in a better position that most financially and fair play to ye I don't begrudge it, but don't try and hold this country to ransom just because you can . Prices are dropping like a stone and some of ye are cribbing that ye didn't get your benchmarking, ye're well paid by international standards , get over it and get on with it.

Hooch

Seems to me the government is doing a GREAT job of turning the private sector against the public sector..................

7mountpleasant

More than abley assisted by the the public sector unions.

FGR

It's frustrating. And everyone's falling for it. Public Sector unions become defensive and the Private Sector gets egged on by the Government (and IBEC even more so).

It's worth taking a step back and assessing it all. Personally I've come to the stage where Public Sector Unions should go quiet..as there's no way they'll win when there's a far more audible argument from the Private Sector..which happens to include the media.

The McCarthy report was just that; a report. The unions should stay quiet until the Government actually does come out with a suggestion..and -then- make their voices heard.

Otherwise it's school ground warfare.

pauldaly1888

listen. a lot of people have taken loans/mortgages in respect of their wages. were already down around 15-20% on pension levy and overtime losses. i understand the overtime was not going to be there forever. i have 5 years experience in public service, had to buy a house outside my own county, prob worked 60+ hours a week every week for the last few years. struggling to make ends meet thesedays. if they take rent allownace im absolutely screwed like a lot of others. country will be in the **** as absolutely noone will have any money to spend. low morale across all public sector. if they take more money ill be down even more. they dont care about the people who keep this country safe. sad thing about it is a lot of my colleagues would be better off financially on th edole and theres people up in arms at talk of 5% reduction in dole payments. do people not realse they got a 20% rise last year. joke of a country run by mugs

djtechnics1210

if people in ireland had to survive on what people in england get on the dole they'd all die id say.
Ireland is 210 a week, england is something like 90 pounds a week ,i actually think its far less.
Why in the name of god is our dole so high, when englands is so low.
Thats the problem with this country.....
Even our tds, senators are way overpaid compared to other countries

jonsnow

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

Jonsnow whats makes you think half the private sector would even get into ags. Loads of lads i know with very good jobs in private sector couldn't get into ags.

I,m sure most of the private sector wouldn,t get into the AGS given the demand for places (its a handy number after all better than some very good jobs in the private sector)-BUT i,m sure that most of the private sector could still do the job if they did.As long as they were able bodied,could pass the garda aptitude test, had no adult criminal record and got the training they could be competent policemen.
You could argue that the standard is really high now in AGS because out of all those applicants only the best get through and you,ld have a point.Although I would counter that I know loads of dolts who only got into AGS because their old man was a guard.But the previous poster maintained that most people couldnt do his job and i maintained that he was wrong.

jonsnow

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

How are ya supposed to have hard facts when its people i know???
Do you want me to all sign up and come on here and tell ya...... Get real lad will ya.
Im sure a lot of other members here will tell ya they also know people that couldn't get into ags.


Ya well ags is a uniform organisation and you are entitled to a uniform and boot allowance to go toward the upkeep of them.
When you go into plain clothes you lose the uniform allowance and then get a plain clothes allowance.

Are you saying there should be no uniform or boot allowance either???

I suppose you want the fire brigade, prison officers and ambulance lads to lose their allowances too,

oh and do you deal with druggies and criminals in your suits you buy out of your salary..,, are you gonna get sick, blood etc on your suits in work.........I doubt it very much.

So your suits will last you a very long time.

If i get blood on a suit from someone that is hep or hiv that suit is gonna have to be destroyed......
Thats why i and other plain clothes members are ENTITLED to an allowance.

I,ve worked in plenty of jobs where my clothes got ruined-I didn,t get any allowances and neither should guards.They are entitled to the allowance because numerous weak governments bent over for the garda lobby.

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

if people in ireland had to survive on what people in england get on the dole they'd all die id say.
Ireland is 210 a week, england is something like 90 pounds a week ,i actually think its far less.
Why in the name of god is our dole so high, when englands is so low.
Thats the problem with this country.....
Even our tds, senators are way overpaid compared to other countries

if cops in ireland had to survive on what cops in england they'd all die id say.
Why in the name of god is our garda pay so high, when englands is so low.
Thats the problem with this country.....See what I did there!!.

I,ve noticed that on boards the people most adamant about cutting social welfare are the same public sector workers who are so adamant about protecting their own pay and conditions.Its easy to understand why-its not like they,ll ever lose their jobs.

TheNog

jonsnow wrote: »

I,m sure most of the private sector wouldn,t get into the AGS given the demand for places (its a handy number after all better than some very good jobs in the private sector)

This part of your post is bordering on trolling and I am warning you to stay away from any attempt to troll in this thread.

The rest of your post is actually pure tripe and not worthy of a reply tbh.

jonsnow wrote: »

I,ve worked in plenty of jobs where my clothes got ruined-I didn,t get any allowances and neither should guards.They are entitled to the allowance because numerous weak governments bent over for the garda lobby.

Yeah and I used to work as a painter and my clothes got ruined too. Then again as a painter I didnt have to look well at work.

if cops in ireland had to survive on what cops in england they'd all die id say.
Why in the name of god is our garda pay so high, when englands is so low.

Are you taking into inflation in consideration?

I think not

Anyway we have already taken income levy cut, a pension levy cut and a cut overtime. If I add it all up thats about 25% reduction in my wages. If rent allowance was takn off me the total would be approx 33%.

Can you point me to another profession that has taken a 33% reduction in pay?

I,ve noticed that on boards the people most adamant about cutting social welfare are the same public sector workers who are so adamant about protecting their own pay and conditions.Its easy to understand why-its not like they,ll ever lose their jobs.

Oh here we go trotting out "your jobs are safe". Its not our fault our jobs are safe but would you prefer if our jobs werent safe? Sure why doesnt the government axe a couple of more thousand Gardai so we can make even then?

Vikings

7mountpleasant wrote: »

we are borrowing €400 million a week to fund public sector wages yet some of ye are threatening to go on strike if your Rent Alowance is taken!, get real for ffs, I don't wish a pay cut on anyone but for the love of god cop on there is 0 and I mean 0 public support from the community for this type of naked self interest

Yeah, you just gotta love self interest. Let's look at the new Gardaí going through the motions in training here for a second - you go to college in Templemore for roughly 6 months and take in less than €200 per week for those 6 months. (That's less than the dole...) Now when these students go out on Phase II they get rent allowance for those 6 or so months to help sustain them. Can you really expect these people to travel to wherever they are sent - and they have no choice in that matter - and live for 6 months on less than €200 per week. Taking into consideration that they will have to be paying rent, food etc. and the big one in this argument...... travel costs for getting to and from work. Something a lot of people on the dole don't have to do.

So tell me why those students should have to do that? Rent allowance is needed, and it can't exactly be a selective thing either.

TheNog

TheNog wrote: »

Are you taking into inflation in consideration?

High wages cause inflation. Talk about keepin wages in line with inflation doesnt make sense in an economic sense. Its totally counter productive. We have had massive inflation over the past few years and need to deflate or the country will go bankrupt. This isnt about what people can or cant afford or what people deserve we simply dont have the money.

And while we complain and moan our money is being diverted to the developers
the banks and NAMA. A cosy cartel nearly. I would love the Gardai to shake that up yet they were 6 months late going into Anglo Irish Bank. Garda management have alot to answer for.

TheNog

Deleted User wrote: »

High wages cause inflation. Talk about keepin wages in line with inflation doesnt make sense in an economic sense. Its totally counter productive. We have had massive inflation over the past few years and need to deflate or the country will go bankrupt. This isnt about what people can or cant afford or what people deserve we simply dont have the money.

I understand that and I agree that cuts are needed but its the level of cuts that is being considered within the Gardai which I think are absolutely savage.

And while we complain and moan our money is being diverted to the developers
the banks and NAMA. A cosy cartel nearly. I would love the Gardai to shake that up yet they were 6 months late going into Anglo Irish Bank. Garda management have alot to answer for.

Well thats for another thread

Vikings

Vikings wrote: »

Yeah, you just gotta love self interest. Let's look at the new Gardaí going through the motions in training here for a second - you go to college in Templemore for roughly 6 months and take in less than €200 per week for those 6 months. (That's less than the dole...) Now when these students go out on Phase II they get rent allowance for those 6 or so months to help sustain them. Can you really expect these people to travel to wherever they are sent - and they have no choice in that matter - and live for 6 months on less than €200 per week. Taking into consideration that they will have to be paying rent, food etc. and the big one in this argument...... travel costs for getting to and from work. Something a lot of people on the dole don't have to do.

So tell me why those students should have to do that? Rent allowance is needed, and it can't exactly be a selective thing either.

yeah but take a 19 year old male student Garda who had to take a loan out for his Quinn Direct car insurance because he couldnt get public transport for the 6am start he then goes on to prop up the cartel. Sean Quinn is a billionairre you know. Irelands billionairres are property developers, bankers and car insurance and cement makes. ..... none of those things generate real wealth in an economy

TheNog

TheNog wrote: »

I understand that and I agree that cuts are needed but its the level of cuts that is being considered within the Gardai which I think are absolutely savage.

A police force should always be renumerated properly. If the choice was between levies, cuts, losing allowances or doing 22 years and being able to retire what would people choose? Could make massive savings this way.

Another thing about Gardai going bankrupt and it being against the code - this is inevitable even without cuts. With cuts more so. But so many people bought houses during the bubble. They were buying as couples, many Gardai will have their partner/husband/wife lose their job and the Garda wont be able to hold the mortgage alone in alot of cases.

TheNog

Deleted User wrote: »

A police force should always be renumerated properly. If the choice was between levies, cuts, losing allowances or doing 22 years and being able to retire what would people choose? Could make massive savings this way.

Another thing about Gardai going bankrupt and it being against the code - this is inevitable even without cuts. With cuts more so. But so many people bought houses during the bubble. They were buying as couples, many Gardai will have their partner/husband/wife lose their job and the Garda wont be able to hold the mortgage alone in alot of cases.

Cuts in wages resulting in the possibility of members defaulting on loans and mortgages are unfortunately only one part of the problem. The Media and Government has successfully painted only side of the picture for the public.

The other problem which I consider just as bad as the public finances will be the increase in crime. Im talking about an increase in gang related murders, thefts, fraud and burglaries. It is generally accepted that a recession goes hand in hand with an increase in crime.

All of these increases will have to be handled by a police already devastated by the loss of approx 1,500 members with no money for overtime, no money for extra resources and certainly no money to replace an ageing motor fleet.

If we think crime levels are bad now, well its about to get worse

TheNog

TheNog wrote: »

Cuts in wages resulting in the possibility of members defaulting on loans and mortgages are unfortunately only one part of the problem. The Media and Government has successfully painted only side of the picture for the public.

The other problem which I consider just as bad as the public finances will be the increase in crime. Im talking about an increase in gang related murders, thefts, fraud and burglaries. It is generally accepted that a recession goes hand in hand with an increase in crime.

All of these increases will have to be handled by a police already devastated by the loss of approx 1,500 members with no money for overtime, no money for extra resources and certainly no money to replace an ageing motor fleet.

If we think crime levels are bad now, well its about to get worse

Absolutely, it could get very messy, it is a time in fact that in my opinion instead of closing down part time stations they should be turning them into full time stations. But we do have to ask the question why are the resources so poorly distributed. How many cars do they have in DMR east? How many in Tallaght. Id safely say they have more cars in DMR East than Tallaght and that Tallaght does more calls on an 8 hour shift. Im also not impressed with alot of DDU, SRU, Compol units. They dont do their fair share if you ask me. It can be damn hard to get a divisional traffic unit do an accident even when the regular unit is tied up. These things have nothing to do with cut backs

Wheely

TheNog wrote: »

Are you taking into inflation in consideration?

I think not

Surely that consideration is equally relevant when discussing social welfare payment disparities between Ireland and England also. Which I think was the point being made in the post to which you were responding.

TheNog wrote: »

Oh here we go trotting out "your jobs are safe". Its not our fault our jobs are safe but would you prefer if our jobs werent safe? Sure why doesnt the government axe a couple of more thousand Gardai so we can make even then?

Once again, I think the problem here, or at least the point being made, was not simply that your jobs are safe per se. But that it happens to be those in the public sector whose jobs ARE safe who are the most vehement in advocating welfare cuts.

The point being that GIVEN the fact that your jobs are "safe" the level of social welfare really is of no concern to you. It could be slashed to ten euros a week and you would never know the difference. Thus it's easy for those of you with "safe" jobs to advocate cuts. Also given that welfare benefits and the public sector pay bill are by far the two largest liabilities on the country's books, cuts in one area relieve pressure and focus on cuts in the other right?

Basically all that was pointed out is the unfairness in stridently defending your own pay, conditions, allowances etc while at the same time advocating cutting benefits to the most vulnerable in society.

TheNog

Wheely wrote: »

Surely that consideration is equally relevant when discussing social welfare payment disparities between Ireland and England also. Which I think was the point being made in the post to which you were responding.

It most certainly is relevant but considering the enormous gap between social welfare payment between the UK and Ireland. Wage comparision between UK police forces and AGS is not so big

Once again, I think the problem here, or at least the point being made, was not simply that your jobs are safe per se. But that it happens to be those in the public sector whose jobs ARE safe who are the most vehement in advocating welfare cuts.

And why shouldnt we call for cuts?

Not so long ago the private sector accepted cuts in their wages and then called for public sector to take cuts which we have done. Savage cuts if I might add.

Now prices are dropping in the retail sector, can you give me a reason why people on benefit should not take a cut too?

The point being that GIVEN the fact that your jobs are "safe" the level of social welfare really is of no concern to you. It could be slashed to ten euros a week and you would never know the difference. Thus it's easy for those of you with "safe" jobs to advocate cuts.

Your point is ill thought out tbh because I am just like you, a taxpayer.

My question to you is: Do you think because I work in the public sector that I should have no say or opinion on what my taxes pay for?

Also given that welfare benefits and the public sector pay bill are by far the two largest liabilities on the country's books, cuts in one area relieve pressure and focus on cuts in the other right?

Actually the banks are this countries largest liability by far but putting that aside, have you forgotten public sector workers have already taken a cut in wages through levies? Not to mention a cut in allowances and overtime too. As I said already I have taken about 25% cut in wages so far.

Basically all that was pointed out is the unfairness in stridently defending what is left of your own pay, conditions, allowances etc while at the same time advocating cutting benefits to the most vulnerable in society.

Made some changes to your point above. Are you getting it yet?

jonsnow

TheNog wrote: »

The rest of your post is actually pure tripe and not worthy of a reply tbh.

Yeah because only super dooper crime fighting ninja types can become competent policemen.To suggest otherwise is "pure tripe".

TheNog wrote: »

Are you taking into inflation in consideration?

I think not

If inflation is the reason that Garda wages far outstrip English police forces wages then it is also the reason that the Irish dole far outstrips the english dole.Which was the point I was making.

The rest of your post is actually pure tripe and not worthy of a reply tbh.

TheNog wrote: »

Oh here we go trotting out "your jobs are safe". Its not our fault our jobs are safe but would you prefer if our jobs werent safe? Sure why doesnt the government axe a couple of more thousand Gardai so we can make even then?

No I,d prefer if you had some appreciation for the dire state the countrys in and for the relatively good situation that gardai are in relative to the hundreds of thousands of recently unemployed.Maybe the dole does need to be reduced but this should only be done after we cut away some of the perks that PS workers benefit from.The Irish unemployed should get the equivalent of the english dole only after guards,teachers and nurses are paid the equivalent salaries of their english counterparts-not before.

TheNog

jonsnow wrote: »

Yeah because only super dooper crime fighting ninja types can become competent policemen.To suggest otherwise is "pure tripe".

No one said we are "super dooper fighting ninja types"

If inflation is the reason that Garda wages far outstrip English police forces wages then it is also the reason that the Irish dole far outstrips the english dole.Which was the point I was making.

Have you actually looked at the wages of English Police?

here it is from the Met Police from their website

What is the salary for Police Officers?A: From the 1st September 2008 on joining the pay is £22,104 and on completion of initial training (end of 31 weeks) it rises to £24,675. In addition all Metropolitan Police Officers receive London weighting and allowances amounting to £6,501 on top of the national police pay scales. Therefore during training pay will be £28,605 and after £31,176.

as you can see their wages are far above that of ours

No I,d prefer if you had some appreciation for the dire state the countrys in and for the relatively good situation that gardai are in relative to the hundreds of thousands of recently unemployed.

Oh but we do have an understanding of the dire state of the country and as I have already said we have already forfeited about 25% of our wages so far.

Is their anything else you would like us to give up?

Maybe the dole does need to be reduced but this should only be done after we cut away some of the perks that PS workers benefit from.

I dont think we have perks in AGS. The allowances we have left are part of our wages, always have been. The only reason we have these allowances is because unfortunately our Union did not foresee the government considering taking them away. What should have happened is instead of giving allowances is a wage increase.

The Irish unemployed should get the equivalent of the english dole only after guards,teachers and nurses are paid the equivalent salaries of their english counterparts-not before.

The English welfare is very low and I wouldnt support an equivalent here but I would suggest a cut in the amount given.

jonsnow

TheNog wrote: »

It most certainly is relevant but considering the enormous gap between social welfare payment between the UK and Ireland. Wage comparision between UK police forces and AGS is not so big

Maybe the police pay differential is not as large as the dole differential-but lets take money from a more privileged sector of society first before going after the most vulnerable.

TheNog wrote: »

And why shouldnt we call for cuts?


Not so long ago the private sector accepted cuts in their wages and then called for public sector to take cuts which we have done. Savage cuts if I might add.

Now prices are dropping in the retail sector, can you give me a reason why people on benefit should not take a cut too?

If Gardai think the cuts to the public sector can be categorised as "savage" when they have involved contributing something a token few per cent towards a pension that is virtually unattainable in the private sector and a cut in overtime then I have no hope for this country avoiding bankruptcy.

The unemployed should take a cut.Right after garda pay levels take a cut to english levels.

TheNog wrote: »

Your point is ill thought out tbh because I am just like you, a taxpayer.

Yeah but you a taxpayer who is unlikely to ever be unemployed again.So its easy for you to advocate swinging cuts to unemployment benefits seeing as you will never have to avail of them.

TheNog wrote: »

My question to you is: Do you think because I work in the public sector that I should have no say or opinion on what my taxes pay for?

Of course you,re entitled to your opinion.But others are entitled to the opinion that gardai which are well paid,get a pension that if they worked in the private sector would amount to €1.1m ,get to retire after only 30 years on that pension and have virtually no chance of being laid off don,t have things too badly all things considered and in the national interest some of their allowances are unjustifiable and should be scrapped.

TheNog wrote: »

Actually the banks are this countries largest liability by far but putting that aside, have you forgotten public sector workers have already taken a cut in wages through levies? Not to mention a cut in allowances and overtime too. As I said already I have taken about 25% cut in wages so far.

The pension levy isn,t a cut as you will get the money back in the form of your pension and it is only fair that you contributed more towards it than 6.5% of its cost.Having said that the tax relief on the levy will mean that in net terms it will actually account for about 4 per cent of the average public sector employee’s wages .So with the income levy of 1% that means that the vast bulk of your fall in income or 20% of it was OT.

While the country could afford to pay guards shedloads of overtime it did and some gardai clocked up some really serious money .But now the countrys broke and can no longer afford to pay it.So like everybody else you,re going to have to readjust.The days of making over a 1000 a week may have sailed but you,re still making a very good living.

TheNog wrote: »

Are you getting it yet?

Well you clearly aren,t.Maybe when the IMF implements some actually "savage" cuts the penny will drop.

Hooch

God, this thread really is running away to foolish bickering.......