An Bord Snip Nua Report - Cut In Garda Pay Allowances Suggested

brown bear · 17-07-2009 11:29AM

Blue Flu as a one off day is a pointless exercise, it will have to be properly organised and it will have to be day on day off or else it won't work, but with the spineless, useless and pointless GRA its never gonna happen

Shield · 17-07-2009 11:43AM

deputydugs wrote: »

http://www.psni.police.uk/index/careers.htm now I NEVER thought it would sound so good

I know 4 ex-mules who signed up and they said it was the best decision of their lives. Be warned though, I was recently contacted by 2 serving Gardai who didn't even get past the Initial Selection Test, so it might not be as easy as you think to get in.

I'm from Dublin myself, and when I read this Report, I smiled on the inside, and thanked my lucky stars I made the decision to move up here when I did.

You guys are in it deep down there.

shakin · 17-07-2009 12:09PM

there was a lot of talk on george hook yesterday about garda pensions and saying that a garda can retire at 50, but am i right in saying that you must serve 30 years in order to get a full pension, so unless you join at 19 then can you only get full pension? and also was there ever an aspect of garda pay that was danger money? didnt civil servants and army get it when working on the border?(open to correction)

DubMedic · 17-07-2009 12:14PM

shakin wrote: »

there was a lot of talk on george hook yesterday about garda pensions and saying that a garda can retire at 50, but am i right in saying that you must serve 30 years in order to get a full pension, so unless you join at 19 then can you only get full pension? and also was there ever an aspect of garda pay that was danger money? didnt civil servants and army get it when working on the border?(open to correction)

The 'Troubles' are over. Maybe if someone on here is stationed in Blayney they might be able to fill you in.

.

shakin · 17-07-2009 12:25PM

DubMedic wrote: »

The 'Troubles' are over. Maybe if someone on here is stationed in Blayney they might be able to fill you in.

.

sorry i meant in the past but you know what i mean,do gardai get danger money as part of their wage?

CAG calls for end to army Border allowance
Sunday, 02 November 2008
The Comptroller and Auditor General, John Buckley, has said that the allowance paid to soldiers and support personnel assigned to Border areas should be ended, since there have been no patrols, checkpoints or searches carried out in the area since 2002. Reporting to the Public Accounts Committee Mr Buckley said that last year the total cost of the Border allowance was €5.38m. A spokesman for the Department of Defence responded by saying that the phasing out of the payments would need negotiation between the department and the Army representative bodies.

DubMedic · 17-07-2009 12:37PM

shakin wrote: »

sorry i meant in the past but you know what i mean,do gardai get danger money as part of their wage?

CAG calls for end to army Border allowance
Reporting to the Public Accounts Committee Mr Buckley said that last year the total cost of the Border allowance was €5.38m.

It's just another excuse to cut payment by the government, the allowances would not add up to that much. It's a figure invented either by the media or a state department to dramatize the funding to public sector workers. The general public would then view it in the media and complain that it could be spent on better things. I bet the public sector will not even get a sniff of this money being saved.

I am not aware of Garda pay arrangements as I am not a Gda.

.

17-07-2009 02:24PM

ForegoneReality wrote: »

There'll be war in the DMR if the rent allowance is touched.

A lot of house owners up there are almost crippled as it is since the cut in OT.

Rents are coming down. Hard and fast.
http://www.irishpropertywatch.com/viewPost.php?Post_ID=146
and
http://daftwatch.atspace.com/daftcounty_1.html

ScubaDave wrote: »

The PSNI starting to look good to anyone!?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0309/breaking79.html?via=mr
Despite the link I`d says its better than the Guards

Remember lads that if they dont make the cuts then the day will come when the Government wont have the money to pay you at all.
No matter what way you swing it the country needs to make tens of billions of savings....

We should start with letting the banks away with themselves.
I think the only changes to the Gardai should be a 22 year contract and your allowed leave on a pension. This would allow the dead weight to move on, save the country on pensions and pay. Someone joining in their 20s would be leaving in their 40s - still young enough to do something else. They do it in New York and also in the British Army.

ps in my experience those lads in one man stations are retirement homes

Terrontress · 17-07-2009 04:42PM

psni wrote: »

I know 4 ex-mules who signed up and they said it was the best decision of their lives. Be warned though, I was recently contacted by 2 serving Gardai who didn't even get past the Initial Selection Test, so it might not be as easy as you think to get in.

I'm from Dublin myself, and when I read this Report, I smiled on the inside, and thanked my lucky stars I made the decision to move up here when I did.

You guys are in it deep down there.

Did they say why they did not get in? I often wonder if I would get into my job again were I to re-apply! I suppose some Gardai might be the same.

The difference in cars between PSNI and AGS even prior to this snip would point to one force being better funded.

In my opinion · 17-07-2009 05:53PM

[quote ps in my experience those lads in one man stations are retirement homes[/quote]

I do not understand what you are saying.

How can a lad be a home?

What are you saying?

17-07-2009 06:19PM

In my opinion wrote: »

[quote ps in my experience those lads in one man stations are retirement homes

I do not understand what you are saying.

How can a lad be a home?

What are you saying?[/QUOTE]

ha ha mr pedant, throw in the word "in", tis the internet

In my opinion · 17-07-2009 06:31PM

Did you ever serve in a one man station? I know the lads locally prefer the district HQ because the one man station is harder job, fact. All files relating to that sub district end up in that 1 man station regardless of who started the file.

I remember when my local station was a 1 and 3 now its a 1 man show. The area has to be policed, the people have to get their service, yes station must be open for people to produce, passports etc etc.

The local intelligence is still gathered and the word of advice is still passed to people on the brink of trouble.

Policing is not all about sect 4s or charge sheets to beat the band the primary role of the Garda Siochana is to prevent crime, protect life and property and then to detect crime. Maybe I am wrong.

17-07-2009 07:03PM

I always found the 24hr station ending up doing all the calls. Rarely did the part time stations do any calls. I wont blame the lads in the one man stations though because I dont believe anyone should be out in a patrol car or on the beat alone. Apart from safety issues if you have another Garda you have another witness.

Re the files - its crazy that they dont take account of how many files a single Garda has at a time. In many of the busier places people are actively dodging work because they literally cannot take on anymore files. I always thought that no matter who is out in the car that all the calls requiring investigation should be immediately forwarded to the sergeant who then earns his pay by taking responsibility and deciding who investigates what.
The book stops with the Sergeant, the Sergeant arranges times for statements and allocates resources. An actual team effort. Would cut out alot of messing. Years ago we had a fella go sick with an injury, it was the busiest DMR South station, he was going to be out for a few months (this was when we used forms for checking for stolen cars) and every dodgy file that was going was written off.

irishgrover · 17-07-2009 07:13PM

deputydugs wrote: »

.......

BLUE FLU is the way and the only way....

correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not illegal for members of the Gardaí to strike? do you not sware to uphold the law, or is that just in the movies / on when it suits ?

DubMedic · 17-07-2009 07:20PM

irishgrover wrote: »

correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not illegal for members of the Gardaí to strike? do you not sware to uphold the law, or is that just in the movies / on when it suits ?

Illegal is such a strong word. Look back on a few pages of this forum , it has been covered before.

.

bo-bo · 17-07-2009 07:41PM

In my opinion wrote: »

Did you ever serve in a one man station? I
Policing is not all about sect 4s or charge sheets to beat the band the primary role of the Garda Siochana is to prevent crime, protect life and property and then to detect crime. Maybe I am wrong.

try telling management that :mad:

noel32 · 17-07-2009 08:59PM

i think that what they hinted at in closing stations might not be a bad thing, there are sub districts and its an absolute joke that there is gardai based in them when they could easily be covered by the district hq
imo there are defo some places that could be shut
as for going at the pay and allowences and that, i honestly dont think they would get away with it, key is sticking togehter on it

noel32 · 17-07-2009 09:02PM

and another thing, i used work in an industry before joining the job,
well a girl left the certain place of employment and went to work with the hse, she was back with us within a year as where she was they all just sat around doing nothing, and she had to leave with the boredom of it all,
i mean that **** is crazy

Sierra Oscar · 17-07-2009 09:07PM

noel32 wrote: »

i think that what they hinted at in closing stations might not be a bad thing, there are sub districts and its an absolute joke that there is gardai based in them when they could easily be covered by the district hq

Depends on the area I would think, area I am living in at the moment recently had its local station re-opened with regular staffing. The station always had a Sargent and two officers until the late 90's. When it only opened for office hours a few days a week crime in the area got out of hand with thugs making people feel terrified.

Ever since the area has had its own officers over the last year the thugs have been kept in line.

It made a big difference to have a local police presence. I don't think Gardai should be forced into abandoning rural areas.

What should have happened was smart investment when the government had money to upgrade stations and equipment - however we all know how much waste went on in this country in general during the boom years.

timmywex · 17-07-2009 10:50PM

They reckon closing half the stations would save 1million per year.

LEaving aside crime rates and the likes, its wont happen.

Its called political suicide, if there was a significant amount of money to be saved then maybe it could happen, but for such a small amount they won't have the balls.

Same thing will happen in social welfare, even though something has to be done there!

TheNog · 17-07-2009 11:08PM

timmywex wrote: »

They reckon closing half the stations would save 1million per year.

This is a particular problem I have noticed. Presuming this figure of 1million was being spent during the Celtic Tiger times, it was for the upkeep of 300 garda stations which really shows a total lack of funding for the AGS.

Thats €3333 a year for each station which I think we can safely assume is for heating, lighting and general maintenance of each station. All the while it is quite evident that most of these 300 stations are in bad need of modernisation with some of which could be classed as derelict.

17-07-2009 11:12PM

TheNog wrote: »

This is a particular problem I have noticed. Presuming this figure of 1million was being spent during the Celtic Tiger times, it was for the upkeep of 300 garda stations which really shows a total lack of funding for the AGS.

Thats €3333 a year for each station which I think we can safely assume is for heating, lighting and general maintenance of each station. All the while it is quite evident that most of these 300 stations are in bad need of modernisation with some of which could be classed as derelict.

a good point, 1 million is nothing in that context, its also nothing when you consider they gave anglo irish 4 billion recently.

Terrontress · 18-07-2009 10:56AM

irishgrover wrote: »

correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not illegal for members of the Gardaí to strike? do you not sware to uphold the law, or is that just in the movies / on when it suits ?

That is why it is called "Blue Flu". High levels of uncertified sick leave amongst Gardai because they have no legal entitlement to strike.

meathmannn · 18-07-2009 04:25PM

Heres a crazy money saving scheme.

Free legal aid, 1 payment per client per year. No more dragging the arse out of cases."We'd like to plea today judge".

And here's a really radical one, when convicted...stay in jail and serve all the sentence. If johnny criminal hadnt 100+ court appearances, convictions etc think how much would be saved on garda OT, court, investigations, etc. etc.

Or how about, if you break the rules in this country... you cant have any more free dole money!!

Back to sleep for me to dream on.
In reality, minor offence... another date please judge for precis, for cctv, for probation report. Garda, are you aware of my clients circumstances:
(Please tick the following)
Addiction problem
Terminal illness of close relative
Recent death of close relative
Letter from FAS re upcoming course
Letter from priest re upcoming detox program

Another date there judge...meanwhile bail for my client, more misery for victims, more overtime for court, vicious circle.

FGR · 18-07-2009 04:27PM

The money spent on Gary Doyle orders for Public Order Offences..

I rest my case.

Shield · 18-07-2009 04:29PM

Let's all give a big thanks to the Human Rights Act for making sure nothing on your wish list will ever come to pass.

meathmannn wrote: »

Heres a crazy money saving scheme.

Free legal aid, 1 payment per client per year. No more dragging the arse out of cases."We'd like to plea today judge".

And here's a really radical one, when convicted...stay in jail and serve all the sentence. If johnny criminal hadnt 100+ court appearances, convictions etc think how much would be saved on garda OT, court, investigations, etc. etc.

Or how about, if you break the rules in this country... you cant have any more free dole money!!

Back to sleep for me to dream on.
In reality, minor offence... another date please judge for precis, for cctv, for probation report. Garda, are you aware of my clients circumstances:
(Please tick the following)
Addiction problem
Terminal illness of close relative
Recent death of close relative
Letter from FAS re upcoming course
Letter from priest re upcoming detox program

Another date there judge...meanwhile bail for my client, more misery for victims, more overtime for court, vicious circle.

ART6 · 18-07-2009 04:56PM

An Bord Snip report identified what? €5billion in potential savings or thereabouts? Meanwhile, in bailing out what begins to appear like every bank and financial institution in the universe, the country (no, not you Brian -- us) is assuming a debt that makes that figure look like the petty cash.

Now. Public expenditure must be cut, and should have been a very long time ago. The 800-odd quangos should never have been set up in the first place, and the HSE was a shambles from the start under the management of Drumm/Harney.

Professor McCarthy had carried out his brief and identified where government savings can be made, but inevitably they impinge to a significant extent on front line services that are not at all the same thing as routine public administration. He is right to identify where savings are possible, but then someone with some sense (volunteers anyone?) has to decide which to adopt.

Among all of those suggestions is the closing of a number of rural Garda stations (and more than a few A&E hospital departments I note), and cutting Garda overtime etc etc. I am not in the AGS and I have never served in the military, being of a mercenary character I didn't think the pay was enough for me to risk my life for, particularly when I managed to get shot at in a couple of war zones while minding my own business and didn't like it that much. But I can't help thinking that closing rural stations will create a happy hunting ground for the crooks among us, when they know that it will take a Garda car twenty minutes at least to get within a mile of them -- it happened in the UK like that and for the same reason.

Then there is the issue of Garda overtime. The good prof simply suggested cutting it, and on face value that is sensible, but perhaps the level of overtime might suggest that there were insufficient Guardai in the first place? I run a small company, and if my overtime bill increased (bearing in mind it attracts premium rates) I would start to think of recruitment as a matter of urgency.

I don't know where all of this is taking us, but I do think the McCarthy report, however well received by the press, is simply skimming around the edges. What I do know is that I wouldn't try to run my company like this. My shareholders would have my blood.:(

Murphy(Cork) · 18-07-2009 05:26PM

ART6 wrote: »

An Bord Snip report identified what? €5billion in potential savings or thereabouts? Meanwhile, in bailing out what begins to appear like every bank and financial institution in the universe, the country (no, not you Brian -- us) is assuming a debt that makes that figure look like the petty cash.

Now. Public expenditure must be cut, and should have been a very long time ago. The 800-odd quangos should never have been set up in the first place, and the HSE was a shambles from the start under the management of Drumm/Harney.

Professor McCarthy had carried out his brief and identified where government savings can be made, but inevitably they impinge to a significant extent on front line services that are not at all the same thing as routine public administration. He is right to identify where savings are possible, but then someone with some sense (volunteers anyone?) has to decide which to adopt.

Among all of those suggestions is the closing of a number of rural Garda stations (and more than a few A&E hospital departments I note), and cutting Garda overtime etc etc. I am not in the AGS and I have never served in the military, being of a mercenary character I didn't think the pay was enough for me to risk my life for, particularly when I managed to get shot at in a couple of war zones while minding my own business and didn't like it that much. But I can't help thinking that closing rural stations will create a happy hunting ground for the crooks among us, when they know that it will take a Garda car twenty minutes at least to get within a mile of them -- it happened in the UK like that and for the same reason.

Then there is the issue of Garda overtime. The good prof simply suggested cutting it, and on face value that is sensible, but perhaps the level of overtime might suggest that there were insufficient Guardai in the first place? I run a small company, and if my overtime bill increased (bearing in mind it attracts premium rates) I would start to think of recruitment as a matter of urgency.

I don't know where all of this is taking us, but I do think the McCarthy report, however well received by the press, is simply skimming around the edges. What I do know is that I wouldn't try to run my company like this. My shareholders would have my blood.:(

Well put!

The icing on the cake was when Éamon Ó Cuív landed in his military chopper yesterday in Cork to open a playground and began to sign autographs once he landed like he was a celebrity!
While the McCarthy report recommended his whole department be abolished! :rolleyes:

irishgrover · 18-07-2009 09:51PM

Terrontress wrote: »

That is why it is called "Blue Flu". High levels of uncertified sick leave amongst Gardai because they have no legal entitlement to strike.

yea, so they should not strike, end of....pretending to be sick is just striking and lying at the same time, and is unjustifiable...and those who subscribe to such behavior are imho pretty lacking in a number of areas..

DubMedic · 18-07-2009 10:01PM

irishgrover wrote: »

yea, so they should not strike, end of....pretending to be sick is just striking and lying at the same time

If what you say is true then the number of calls being attended by the FB shall rocket.

Pants on fire and the like.

By the way, if you were the only breadwinner in your house and the government decided to nibble on your paycheck and send you to work much further away than usual then I think you would be slightly miffed too.

.

irishgrover · 18-07-2009 10:15PM

DubMedic wrote: »

If what you say is true then the number of calls being attended by the FB shall rocket.

Pants on fire and the like.

By the way, if you were the only breadwinner in your house and the government decided to nibble on your paycheck and send you to work much further away than usual then I think you would be slightly miffed too.

.

again, it's just my opinion, members know that they cannot take industrial action, for obvious reasons of public and national security, it's what they signed up to and it's the law, ...

By the way I am the only breadwinner in my house (wife made redundant and 4 kids 6 and under). The government has already taken significant nibbles from my paycheck, in addition to the 15% pay cut this year. In addition I live in Galway but have been moved by my employer to Dublin for the foreseeable future, as there is no work in Galway. I guess I could take a sick day to protest, but I wouldn't get paid unless I got a doc's note! Ah, the hassles of living in the real world :rolleyes:

An Bord Snip Nua Report - Cut In Garda Pay Allowances Suggested

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