HPAT

i'm a smiler · 24-06-2009 7:47pm

Zenith23 wrote: »

Ok, well I got a 126 in my HPAT.
I really want medicine in TCD and, despite my results in the HPAT, I know that I would be a great doctor in the future.

Any suggestions as to what I should do?

Why solely tcd? Is it a "prestige" thing?

pathway33 · 24-06-2009 7:47pm

Zenith23 wrote: »

Ok, well I got a 126 in my HPAT. And I'm expecting at least 570 in my Leaving Cert but at the moment it seems very unlikely.
I don't want to do anything but medicine, this I know.
I don't have heaps of money so I can't really afford one of those grinds courses for the HPAT.
I really want medicine in TCD and, despite my results in the HPAT, I know that I would be a great doctor in the future.

Any suggestions as to what I should do?

repeat both next year even if you get 570 in the leaving. It's the cheapest option and the one that will give you most peace of mind.

Xtina!! · 24-06-2009 7:49pm

ALincoln wrote: »

Additionally, you can repeat allright, but it's worth remembering that very few people move up in grade substantially when they do the LC for the second (or in extreme cases the third) time.

Sometimes, you just have to accept that something is not going to happen.

But I do think that some very small changes could make a huge difference and boost your points. Like I took on applied maths only this year and completed the two year course in 8 months. And (hopefully) I think I got an a1 in it. This would make a huge difference say if you can't get anything higher than a B2 in, for example, english.

Xtina!! · 24-06-2009 7:53pm

pathway33 wrote: »

the general consensus on this thread is that 720 will give a good shot of getting medicine somewhere. I presume the 5 year course would be in more demand so a little higher for that

Do you know the ratio between the number who plan to do the 5 year course and the 6 year course?

pathway33 · 24-06-2009 7:59pm

Xtina!! wrote: »

Do you know the ratio between the number who plan to do the 5 year course and the 6 year course?

i think the only figures CAO released was the total first preference applicants for medicine and then the total who put medicine as a lower preference. No breakdown for individual courses AFAIK. I suppose anyone who did chemistry would do the 5 year course unless location was a factor.

bythewoods · 24-06-2009 8:24pm

i'm a smiler wrote: »

I got 186 in hpat, predicting around 555 in lc. This would give me 737.

What do you think my chances are for med?

I'm hoping I get into tcd or ucc so I can do a five year course.

I'd say your chances are extremely high!
Best of luck.

Xtina!! wrote: »

Okay, yes, thats true. But personally I think I got 580+ so I wudn't repeat. But it's too soon to talk, we'll have to see in august. I suppose to be more accurate I meant 575 or 580+. If I got around 560 then yes I would repeat.

I got 550 and repeated this year.

Came to the conclusion it was all a bit pointless and dossed. Mitched a lot and so on.
Go do a PLC or something for a year and repeat the HPAT.

Xtina!! wrote: »

But I do think that some very small changes could make a huge difference and boost your points. Like I took on applied maths only this year and completed the two year course in 8 months. And (hopefully) I think I got an a1 in it. This would make a huge difference say if you can't get anything higher than a B2 in, for example, english.

If you want to do Med, you have to repeat everything.
Your points must be taken from a single sitting of the LC with all matric requirements.

If you could just drop bitchy subjects and do your best, life would be oh-so-much easier...
French, for example, is something I do not like. Yet I had to repeat it this year. English, also, in one year- Ewww ewww ewww.

Zenith23 · 24-06-2009 8:27pm

i'm a smiler wrote: »

Why solely tcd? Is it a "prestige" thing?

Oh god no, it's definitely not a prestige thing. TCD is a lot more convenient for travel plus I only have English and Irish as my languages i.e I couldn't get UCD even if I wanted to. Pretty limited to TCD.

"repeat both next year even if you get 570 in the leaving. It's the cheapest option and the one that will give you most peace of mind."

I really don't see much point -no pun intended- in repeating the Leaving Cert with 570. The difference between 570 and 600 is only 6 points. Really, all I need to do, I think, is to up my HPAT score.

pathway33 · 24-06-2009 8:33pm

My friend got 150 hpat so he reckons he is done for.

Here's his plan

2009 leaving prediction

all higher

irish B1
english B1
maths A1
french B1
chemistry A1
biology A1
accounting A1

TOTAL 570

He is planning to repeat both hoping to get 180 in the hpat and 600 (560 converted) in the leaving but he's going to do it like this. He says he has wrung irish english and french for everything he can so here's his subjects for LC 2010

maths H HA1
applied maths H HA1
chemistry H HA1
biology H HA1
accounting H HA1
economics H HA1
irish O OD3
english O OD3
french O OD3

He's going to buy the economics and applied maths book tomorrow.

Xtina!! · 24-06-2009 8:41pm

pathway33 wrote: »

irish O OD3
english O OD3
french O OD3

He's going to buy the economics and applied maths book tomorrow.

Is it true though that your chances of getting into any course are less likely if you do pass english or irish? I think I'm wrong but I defo heard that somewhere.

24-06-2009 8:42pm

He predicts that he has 570, and he would be willing to repeat - taking up two new subjects - for the sake of 6 points? That's just ridiculous, really. Absolutely ridiculous. I repeated this year, but I repeated to gain a good few points. Repeating for 6 points is, in my honest opinion, absolutely stupid.

He would be far better off to concentrate on the HPAT and keep his LC results from this year (if he does achieve 570, that is). Contrary to what people believe, it is possible to improve your HPAT result (I don't agree with this idea, because it defeats the purpose of the test), but yah, it is possible to get good at taking the test. Similar to an IQ test, you can get good at taking the test, improving your result; although you're not actually increasing your inherent IQ, obviously.

Xtina!! · 24-06-2009 8:48pm

bythewoods wrote: »

If you want to do Med, you have to repeat everything.
Your points must be taken from a single sitting of the LC with all matric requirements.

If you could just drop bitchy subjects and do your best, life would be oh-so-much easier...
French, for example, is something I do not like. Yet I had to repeat it this year. English, also, in one year- Ewww ewww ewww.

Oh no I know that you must have all the entry requirements in the one year for medicine. I'm just saying that you can always take on another subject like applied maths, do it in the 1 year and get a good grade. But yeah it would be much easier if we didn't have to have all the entry requirements in the one year. Like I didn't do chemistry and if I took a year out to do chemistry, well can't do that cos we must have all the requirements in the same year(except for the hpat). Oh it's very hard isn't it......

Xtina!! · 24-06-2009 8:53pm

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

He predicts that he has 570, and he would be willing to repeat - taking up two new subjects - for the sake of 6 points? That's just ridiculous, really. Absolutely ridiculous. I repeated this year, but I repeated to gain a good few points. Repeating for 6 points is, in my honest opinion, absolutely stupid.

He would be far better off to concentrate on the HPAT and keep his LC results from this year (if he does achieve 570, that is). Contrary to what people believe, it is possible to improve your HPAT result (I don't agree with this idea, because it defeats the purpose of the test), but yah, it is possible to get good at taking the test. Similar to an IQ test, you can get good at taking the test, improving your result; although you're not actually increasing your inherent IQ, obviously.

Oh I definately agree. I know that I could have done much much better. Just improve on your technique and time. Just analyse really carefully what they are asking.

pathway33 · 24-06-2009 8:55pm

Xtina!! wrote: »

Is it true though that your chances of getting into any course are less likely if you do pass english or irish? I think I'm wrong but I defo heard that somewhere.

that would be wrong for ireland anyway unless a course requirement was a higher level grade in those subjects because the CAO computer just has all the instructions put in to calculate who gets what and it's not like the computer has developed an intelligence of its own yet to say oh we cant let her do medicine she only got english OD3

pathway33 · 24-06-2009 9:00pm

hmmmm so with all the people repeating hpat next year who will have learnt from their mistakes the points will rise yeah? But didn't hpat say something about standardising points between one year and the next so that one year wouldn't have an advantage over another?

holadivaldfe · 24-06-2009 9:05pm

Xtina!! wrote: »

Is it true though that your chances of getting into any course are less likely if you do pass english or irish? I think I'm wrong but I defo heard that somewhere.

i agree with pathway. personally i know many people who did pass english and irish and they're studing med atm. frankly it may be the reason they are as they had more energy to put towards the more bankable subjects like accounting, business, biology (not that the first 2 pertain to medicine in any shape or form!).

the only reason people are wary of dropping to pass in those is because uni's in the uk like to see hons eng and math. they don't care about irish i'm afraid. this is probably the same in other countries and also many like having the option to do primary teaching and other such courses where hons eng and irish are vital. there you go!

i never knew you could do pass science subjects to get into med before today. but if these computers pathway mentioned were ever going to be capable of favouritism, then they'd favour those who sat hons bio, chem, phys, math, etc with regards med school applications. honours irish is not relevant to medicine unless you wish to be a gp in a gaeltacht area or something. personally i think a high standard of english is a huge boost to any course at all, but there will be many who beg to differ, it's neither here n'or there as long as you get in. huh..... roll on aug 17th!! :rolleyes:

HotPharmStudent · 24-06-2009 9:30pm

Hey guys.

Just a quick question....why do my section scores of my HPAT read n/a n/a /na?? I received 160 overall but I just a little confuzzled. Any help would be much appriciated.

Many thanks!

Inspired171 · 24-06-2009 9:33pm

HotPharmStudent wrote: »

Hey guys.

Just a quick question....why do my section scores of my HPAT read n/a n/a /na?? I received 160 overall but I just a little confuzzled. Any help would be much appriciated.

Many thanks!

YA the boys over at cao had them up at first but a few hours later n/a was everywhere, so we're assuming an angry phone call was made from our pal ACER to cao!

My max combined score is 731 and I can't help feeling like I'm hanging on by the skin of my teeth here!!:(

HotPharmStudent · 24-06-2009 9:40pm

Thanks!

Was freaking out there. But 731? Ah sure you're laughing, you'll get it no probs. Im on 720 and im biting my nails.

straight_As · 24-06-2009 9:43pm

holadivaldfe wrote: »

i agree with pathway. personally i know many people who did pass english and irish and they're studing med atm. frankly it may be the reason they are as they had more energy to put towards the more bankable subjects like accounting, business, biology (not that the first 2 pertain to medicine in any shape or form!).

i never knew you could do pass science subjects to get into med before today. but if these computers pathway mentioned were ever going to be capable of favouritism, then they'd favour those who sat hons bio, chem, phys, math, etc with regards med school applications. honours irish is not relevant to medicine unless you wish to be a gp in a gaeltacht area or something. personally i think a high standard of english is a huge boost to any course at all, but there will be many who beg to differ, it's neither here n'or there as long as you get in. huh..... roll on aug 17th!! :rolleyes:

I think your first paragraph there displays everything that's wrong with medical students, and probably the reason why many of this year's "high pointers (in the LC)" are not shining through in the HPAT. They are depending on subjects like accounting and business, getting A1's in them and driving up the points as these extraneous subjects are 'learn-by-heart-able' (and please, no one claim, "Oh I want to be a 'medical-accountant'"). These people are mistaking the ability to get high points in irrelevant subjects for a genuine aptitude for medicine, and thus, for many potential 600 pointers, their medical ineptitude is being revealed.

With regards to your final paragraph, an ordinary level science subject should not be accepted for matriculation for medicine. Simple as.

Tbh, I don't think the HPAT should favor those doing Science/Maths-y type subjects. I feel this should be accommodated for in the LC points tally whereby, preferably, an A1 in a said type subject would be more beneficial, points-wise, than an A1 in, say, business.

Also, I agree with your idea about English. It is an essential, especially in an inter-personal career such as medicine. If one is to be a great doctor (not a lab rat), in essence, their communication skills must be excellent, a pre-requisite to attaining a high English grade. English would also be of great benefit as it stresses the ability to think on one's feet and also, more importantly, to think critically.

medcon · 24-06-2009 10:37pm

Straight_As,

I'm just after finishing another year of medicine, and I'd like to give you an insight into what is actually involved in doing the course in college. What is wrong with learning by heart? Medicine is a career that is based upon knowledge, and that knowledge, like it or not, can only be obtained by learning off by heart. You need to have the ability to learn off and reproduce on paper pages upon pages of drugs, diseases and diagnoses. From your first day in medical school until the day you retire from practicing medicine you need to be able to remember seemingly useless facts. You won't need to indicate which shape comes next in a series of four.

Of course you need intelligence, but your problem solving ability is limited by the extent of your knowledge - which of course has been learned off by heart.

Therefore I believe that the leaving cert is a perfectly sufficient measure of one's aptitude for medicine. What for you contributes to an actual aptitude for medicine?

Please explain in greater detail how the leaving cert English course is an adequate gauge of one's interpersonal abilities? Communicating on paper is not the same as communicating in person - I know one or two "lab-rats" out there who got A1s in LC English.

Regards,

medcon

JSK 252 · 24-06-2009 10:46pm

medcon wrote: »

Straight_As,

I'm just after finishing another year of medicine, and I'd like to give you an insight into what is actually involved in doing the course in college. What is wrong with learning by heart? Medicine is a career that is based upon knowledge, and that knowledge, like it or not, can only be obtained by learning off by heart. You need to have the ability to learn off and reproduce on paper pages upon pages of drugs, diseases and diagnoses. From your first day in medical school until the day you retire from practicing medicine you need to be able to remember seemingly useless facts. You won't need to indicate which shape comes next in a series of four.

Of course you need intelligence, but your problem solving ability is limited by the extent of your knowledge - which of course has been learned off by heart.

Therefore I believe that the leaving cert is a perfectly sufficient measure of one's aptitude for medicine. What for you contributes to an actual aptitude for medicine?

Please explain in greater detail how the leaving cert English course is an adequate gauge of one's interpersonal abilities? Communicating on paper is not the same as communicating in person - I know one or two "lab-rats" out there who got A1s in LC English.

Regards,

medcon

Well said.:)

holadivaldfe · 24-06-2009 11:03pm

very well said medcon!!

i had written a long counter argument to straight a's post but my comp went offline, but u pretty much wrapped it up!

i'm sick of the old 570 - 600 pointers all getting tared with the one brush and accused of being let off easy. if anyone claims getting those points is a walk in the park, they're lying. yes, some people get into medicine having sat mostly "easier" subjects but so what they're just coping with a weird system as best they can. if these few aren't able for medicine they'll drop out or get kicked out so don't get upset. more start med than finish med. otherwise, most students regardless of what they sat learn heaps off b heart as medcon said, study their butts off and graduate as excellent doctors. don't belittle their achievement. they deserve their success.

JW91 · 24-06-2009 11:08pm

Cantona56,
You seem to have taken great offence to my post. Fair play to you for working and whatever but the reality is that if you did bad in the HPAT it probably means you aren't intelligent enough for medicine. This is fair enough as not everyone is like Einstein.

But to back up my point. Obviously you need to learn off definitions etc for things like Chemistry and Biology. What I meant by my comment is that if you for example learned off an essay for Irish, say it was an essay you got off the internet or one your teacher gave you and then you reproduce this exact essay in the exam then you have cheated.

If you learn off essays for subjects like Irish and English that aren't entirely your own work and then use them on the day then you are a cheat.
Your no better than the guy that brings notes into the exam hall and looks at them during the tests. And in fact I have more respect for the guy that brings in the notes as doing that takes serious guts.

holadivaldfe · 24-06-2009 11:17pm

JW91 wrote: »

Cantona56,
You seem to have taken great offence to my post. Fair play to you for working and whatever but the reality is that if you did bad in the HPAT it probably means you aren't intelligent enough for medicine. This is fair enough as not everyone is like Einstein.

But to back up my point. Obviously you need to learn off definitions etc for things like Chemistry and Biology. What I meant by my comment is that if you for example learned off an essay for Irish, say it was an essay you got off the internet or one your teacher gave you and then you reproduce this exact essay in the exam then you have cheated.

If you learn off essays for subjects like Irish and English that aren't entirely your own work and then use them on the day then you are a cheat.
Your no better than the guy that brings notes into the exam hall and looks at them during the tests. And in fact I have more respect for the guy that brings in the notes as doing that takes serious guts.

so if you get into medicine will u make up diseases and treatments and in your exams so you're not "cheating" by learning what it says in the books and lecture slides???

if u ever become a dr please wear a bell.

24-06-2009 11:23pm

holadivaldfe wrote: »

so if you get into medicine will u make up diseases and treatments and in your exams so you're not "cheating" by learning what it says in the books and lecture slides???

if u ever become a dr please wear a bell.

What a brilliant reply; getting personal always helps doesn't it?

What JW91 has said is correct: if you've learned off an essay that wasn't your work and reproduced it on the day of your exam you've cheated.

JW91 · 24-06-2009 11:30pm

This seems to be a very touchy subject.

You know if your in college and you use someone elses's work as part of your project or thesis or whatever then you can be prosecuted for plagarism.

Doing this is not the correct way to do exams

ALincoln · 24-06-2009 11:31pm

Xtina!! wrote: »

But I do think that some very small changes could make a huge difference and boost your points. Like I took on applied maths only this year and completed the two year course in 8 months. And (hopefully) I think I got an a1 in it. This would make a huge difference say if you can't get anything higher than a B2 in, for example, english.

Maybe in isolated cases, but for the majority, it is unfortunately not going to happen.

You might think that med is all you want when you're in secondary school - it's glamorous and prestigious. When you enter uni however, you'll realise that there are a million other career options, which although they might not be med, you'll discover to be far more fulfilling and appropriate to you than medicine.

JSK 252 · 24-06-2009 11:36pm

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

What a brilliant reply; getting personal always helps doesn't it?

What JW91 has said is correct: if you've learned off an essay that wasn't your work and reproduced it on the day of your exam you've cheated.

Im the firm believer in beating the system.

Intelligence is involved in trying to learn off essays whether they are yours or not! If you say otherwise then you are highly mistaken as memory is an integral part of intelligence This is the LC! nobody cares if you wrote your essay off the cuff or not!

Cillbill · 24-06-2009 11:37pm

Hey guys ,
Well done to everyone who sat the HPAT and if you done well you should be proud of yourself.

This year I devoted myself to getting into medicine and basically lived a life of study . I didn't find it as easy as some claim as I had to strive to solve challenging maths problems daily and forego my music and sports. It was very difficult to be so diligent but I kept imagining myself sitting in that lecture hall studying a course I loved, I therefore concluded it would all be worth it.

I woke up at 6 a.m Monday morning bursting with excitement to view my HPAT results as I felt like it had gone excellently considering the low concentration level on the day. Looking at the score 150, made my heart drop . Had all my dreams gone out the window?

The max score I can now receive is 710 which is unlikely. But if I did get this would those in the know please tell me is it possible to attain a place?

I totally agree with the HPAT even though it did not serve me well this year but I think saying if someone did badly in it they are not intelligent enough for medicine is a highly ignorant comment. Personally I felt sick on the day and was not able to achieve to my highest potential. I know this because I aced the UKCAT.

For now I pray and hope against all hope that I get a break.
Well done to everyone and remember,
enjoy the summer and whatever happens , happens for the best even though it may not seem like it now .

holadivaldfe · 24-06-2009 11:40pm

JW91 wrote: »

This seems to be a very touchy subject.

You know if your in college and you use someone elses's work as part of your project or thesis or whatever then you can be prosecuted for plagarism.

Doing this is not the correct way to do exams

the leaving cert course and university courses are so entirely different i don't know where to begin, but the ability to retain lots of information is relevant to medicine.

i would like you to contact me if it arises that a student receieves an official letter from the department informing them that their leaving cert has been cancelled and furthermore that they no longer have the right to sit a state exam for 5 years due to the fact that their irish essay appeared shockingly similar to the one in the book.

i am serious about the bell.

HPAT

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