HPAT

drrkpd

A Neurotic wrote: »

OH F*CK

Do the maths we know the figure who did hpat is 2900-3000. Working on 3000 and the fact a percentile is a 100th as I did originally still means each percentile is about 30. This is much better than the 35 per percentile quoted and if it is 29.5 or 30.3 makes very little difference. Qualifax says 405 medical school places,I was quoted undergraduate medical places as 420 but if the Irish Times article is correct and they quote 480-490 even more chance of success.

We don't know the Leaving Cert results yet. We dont know if all of the top percentiles will get 550 or above. We do know if you were in the 99th or 100th percentile and scored 200 to 230 on hpat ( who is that genius?) you are virtually guaranteed a place but that is only the first 60. There are at least 345 places left and until August 17th first round offers no-one knows the combined score to succeed but it wont stop them guessing!!

drrkpd

Adventure wrote: »

TCD - 700

UCD/UCC/NUI Galway - 690

RCSI - 685


That's what i predict for points.

Top possible score is genius who got 230 plus 560 Leaving Cert points so is 790.
Top 30 will be hpat 200+ plus 560 Leaving Cert points is 760+

Sure Trinity will be highest-always is and fewer places than UCD but as per my last post no-one knows!!!

Since average hpat is 150 and many people get 550 plus in Leaving Cert. suspect all will be over 700 but I dont know and neither do you.

Fad

Zenith23 wrote: »

I heard it's possible to do a 2 year science course in Trinity and then go right into medicine the following year.

Is this true?

I've never heard of that, and why wouldnt every one be doing that now if it was an option?

dog_pig

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Yes, each percentile will contain the same number of people (although each percentile will have a different range). Although the 99th percentile is the highest possible, I'm still not sure about dividing the total by 99 instead of 100 to work out the amount in each percentile. It makes intuitive sense to divide by 99, but, I can't imagine it being called percentile if it was based on 99. Although, if for a sample of 3000, you divide by 100 and limit the maximum percentile to 99, 30 people suddenly disappear.

You don't divide by 99 - you divide by 100; it's called a percentile.

dog_pig

dog_pig wrote: »

You don't divide by 99 - you divide by 100; it's called a percentile.

I know that, which is why I underlined cent in percentile in my pervious post. It's just a bit counter-intuitive as the highest possible percentile is the 99th (in the vast majority of tests, anyway), and the lowest possible is the 1st (not the 0th).

Anne-Marie!!

Anne-Marie!! wrote: »

One thing thats confusing me, say the 90th-99th percentiles, surely theres less in this range than in the say 50th-59th percentile? It must be like a bell curve where theres a small amount in the top or bottom, and the majority in the middle?

Yah, around two thirds (68%) will be within a region 15-30 points (depending on the standard deviation they use) either side of 150. (That is if it's actually a normal distribution, which I think it would be).

dog_pig

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

I know that, which is why I underlined cent in percentile in my pervious post. It's just a bit counter-intuitive as the highest possible percentile is the 99th (in the vast majority of tests, anyway), and the lowest possible is the 1st (not the 0th).

Well the highest percentile can only by the 99th as percentiles indicate how your result stands in relation to the results of others who took the tests therefore you yourself must be included in the percentiles, it's the same reason that the lowest is the 1st percentile. You have to distinguish percentiles from percentages

dog_pig

dog_pig wrote: »

Well the highest percentile can only by the 99th as percentiles indicate how your result stands in relation to the results of others who took the tests therefore you yourself must be included in the percentiles, it's the same reason that the lowest is the 1st percentile. You have to distinguish percentiles from percentages

Yes, I know the difference. But, the lowest is 1%le, and the highest is 99%le, giving only 99 divisions. Which leads to division by 100 being counter-intuitive. I know why you divide by 100 (it's due to you actually counting the gaps between %le's, not %le's themselves), my point was that it was counter-intuitive.

drrkpd

Will be fascinating to come back on August 17th and see what actually happened in the first round of offers-what combinations of scores actually succeeded. Dont forget to those who didn't succeed there are other ways into medicine-
repeating hpat-as often as you like!!
if people are right in their predictions and you dont have 550 points or above repeat leaving and hpat!!!!!!
OR do your degree and come to medicine as a graduate. If YOU want to succeed you can.
Good Luck to all

drrkpd

and will leave you with this!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentile_rank

Percentile rank

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

It has been suggested that this article or section be merged into percentile. (Discuss) The percentile rank of a score is the percentage of scores in its frequency distribution which are lower or equal to it. For example, a test score which is greater than or equal to 85% of the scores of people taking the test is said to be at the 85th percentile. Percentile ranks are commonly used to clarify the interpretation of scores on standardized tests. For the test theory, the percentile rank of a raw score is interpreted as the percentages of examinees in the norm group who scored below the score of interest.[1]
Percentile ranks (PRs or "percentiles") are normally distributed and bell-shaped while normal curve equivalents (NCEs) are uniform and rectangular in shape. Percentile ranks are not on an equal-interval scale; that is, the difference between any two scores is not the same between any other two scores. For example, 50 - 25 = 25 is not the same distance as 60 - 35 = 25 because of the bell-curve shape of the distribution. Some percentile ranks are closer to some than others. Percentile rank 30 is closer on the bell curve to 40 than it is to 20.
The mathematical formula is

where cfl is the cumulative frequency for all scores lower than the score of interest, fi is the frequency of the score of interest, and N is the number of examinees in the sample. If the distribution is normally distributed, the percentile rank can be inferred from the standard score.

Percentile ranks (PRs or "percentiles") compared to Normal curve equivalents (NCEs)



URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Percentile_rank&action=edit&section=1"]edit[/URL References

1. ^ Crocker, L., & Algina, J. (1986). Introduction to classical and modern test theory. New York: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich College Publishers. ISBN 0030616344

URL="javascript:collapseTable(0);"]hide[/URL

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Anne-Marie!!

Anne-Marie!! wrote: »

Well then, do the calculations that people are doing make sense? Say if someone gets 50 percentile, is it right to assume that there is 3000x50%= 1500 people ahead of them? The same way that if someone gets 95 percentile, that theres 3000x5%= 150 people ahead of them?

Yah, it is. There are the same number of people at each percentile. For example, if there are 2900 people, there are 29 people at each percentile (2900/100).

Sorry if that sounds really stupid, but i cant see how we can assume that there are the same amount of people in each percentile

You see, this is where the confusion arises. The intervals associated with each percentile don't have to be the same. For example, the 99th percentile might cover the range between a score of 200 and a score of 230. But, the 75th percentile might only cover a range between a score of 170 and 173, or whatever. The interval between two different scores, that are worth the same percentile, becomes smaller the closer you get to the mean (150 points). The size of the interval is determined so that 29 people are at each percentile; it's not a set number. So, basically, 29 people are at each percentile, but the range of scores which that percentile "represents" is different for various percentiles.

(By the way, I'm open to correction on this: my knowledge of statistics is pretty limited).

smndly

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Yah, it is. There are the same number of people at each percentile. For example, if there are 2900 people, there are 29 people at each percentile (2900/100).



You see, this is where the confusion arises. The intervals associated with each percentile don't have to be the same. For example, the 99th percentile might cover the range between a score of 200 and a score of 230. But, the 75th percentile might only cover a range between a score of 170 and 173, or whatever. The interval between two different scores, that are worth the same percentile, becomes smaller the closer you get to the mean (150 points). The size of the interval is determined so that 29 people are at each percentile; it's not a set number. So, basically, 29 people are at each percentile, but the range of scores which that percentile "represents" is different for various percentiles.

(By the way, I'm open to correction on this: my knowledge of statistics is pretty limited).

Bang on Jammy. Percentiles have to do with your position relative to everyone else, not what score you achieved. So each percentile has equal number of people but in the case of the HPAT, a different range of scores. The highest score in the hpat is 253 I think yet he/she is still in the 99th percentile with people who got 200. If we are to believe that 2900 people sat the hpat then each percentile rank equates to 29 people.

Although according to the CAO figures from January, over 7000 people applied to med in some form or another. I find it hard to believe that 4000 people changed their mind. I suppose if your only half-thinking about medicine, a €90 fee is a deterrent but still....

Percentile: one of 99 actual or notional values of a variable dividing its distribution into 100 groups with equal frequencies. - collins dictionary.

The equal frequency means equal numbers per percentile ranking.

A Neurotic

Anne-Marie wrote:

And thanks for taking such an interest in this thread to help us out, even tho you're not applying to medicine, since we all seem to be quite clueless about the whole thing! Good to have a mathematician on board :P

I second this. It's really appreciated.

orangerhyme

123 points 13th percentile
150 points 49 th percentile
161 points 69th percentile
164 points 73rd percentile
173 points 84th percentile
176 points 86th percentile
177 points 87th percentile
179

---

89th
180-183 points 92nd percentile
185,186 points 93rd percentile
187,188 points 94th percentile
191,192 points 96th percentile
201-205 points 99th percentile

looking at this i would guess 720 will be the entry points...i'm 704
I think if you've got this much you should be hopeful..
A guy earlier posted an intresting story about his gf and her friend both practiced the booklets together and were getting similar scores. one did a hpat prep cousre(and got in the high 90's percentile) and the other didn't and got below 30 percentile.

Id like the people who did the prep courses to post. to see of it really helped. although it will just be free advertising for the bloodsuckers who run them. i didnt do a course or any prep and got 89% and think i could really improve on that.

I honestly think the system is fairer than the previous one although i think it needs a tweeking. I actually wish the the cutoff wasn't 550 and more like 530 i.e. so 600 points was 544.
I think alot of smart students get around the 500+ mark but for myriad reaasons e.g. poverty, unsupportive family, bad school + teachers etcc..
sont reaally blossum til university if at all.

orangerhyme

comiserations to anyone that didn't do well but i think the hpat is a more accurate measure of intelligence than the leaving cert

Acid_Violet

A friend of mine got 211. On his card it GENUINELY said 100th percentile. I kid y'all not.

pathway33

Acid_Violet wrote: »

A friend of mine got 211. On his card it GENUINELY said 100th percentile. I kid y'all not.

and is there any chance at all that he might have feked up his leaving?

Acid_Violet

No none, soz.

pathway33

Acid_Violet wrote: »

No none, soz.

ok.....404 places left

JW91

I think this HPAT is a great system. It rewards the more intellignet students and it shows the students that are capable of thinking outside the box.

The old system was ridiculous whereby people would get 570 or 580 and get into medicine although they were probably totally unsuitable for it.

I imagine a lot of the people complaining are people who would have got it under the old system. Basically what a lot of you have probably done is that you learned off reams and reams of essays and answers for the leaving cert, you will get high marks but you won't get medicine because you weren't intelligent enough to deal with the HPAT.

As far as I'm concerned learning off stuff in this manner is cheating. plain and simple.
So this HPAT has basiclly caught out the cheaters.
If you were intelligent enough to do the leaving cert properly (i.e. without learning off heaps of stuff by heart) then you would have been intelligent enough to deal with the HPAT

Xtina!!

I didn't do very well in my hpat. Absolutly gutted!:( Defo thought I did better. I think I'll get 600, hopefully, so my hpat score will be 131+560=691. Is there any hope for me yet? Considering that some people didn't put medicine down as their first choice and some might not do as well in their leaving cert? I think its pointless to repeat if I do well in my leaving. But yet I dont want to waste 4 years of my life doing a course that I hate and then get into a graduate entry into medicine. I dont think the hpat and the leaving have to be done in the same year. Im so confused about my cao and the closing date is on the 1st of July. Agh!! Can someone please give me some advice!??

pathway33

Xtina!! wrote: »

I dont think the hpat and the leaving have to be done in the same year. Im so confused about my cao and the closing date is on the 1st of July. Agh!! Can someone please give me some advice!??

This is true. The HPAT and leaving do not have to be done in the same year. You can keep your points from the leaving this year and do the HPAT next year

tootyflutty

Xtina, just wait and see what happens, leave medicine as your first choices, and then put down something you might have considered otherwise.
Have you considered maybe taking another course that you might get offered and doing that for a year, you can always take the hpat again next year if your not happy in that course and reapply to CAO for medicine. But in that case you will probably have to pay repeat fees for college, it's something to think about though.

pathway33

Xtina!! wrote: »

I dont want to waste 4 years of my life doing a course that I hate and then get into a graduate entry into medicine...... Im so confused about my cao and the closing date is on the 1st of July. Agh!! Can someone please give me some advice!??

you might'nt hate this course
http://www.qualifax.ie/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=16
as it says 'Medicinal chemistry would also serve as an excellent primary degree for a graduate course in medicine.'



or

http://www.qualifax.ie/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=16

Xtina!!

Thanks for the advice! After my many options for medicine I put down physiotherapy. Like everyone else I really really want to get into medicine. Say if, and very likely so, I dont get into medicine, do physiotherapy for a year and sit the hpat again. Or if that doesnt come to plan perhaps do physio for the four years and if I still decide to do medicine do the graduate course. Wud that be a gud idea??

pathway33

Xtina!! wrote: »

Thanks for the advice! After my many options for medicine I put down physiotherapy. Like everyone else I really really want to get into medicine. Say if, and very likely so, I dont get into medicine, do physiotherapy for a year and sit the hpat again. Or if that doesnt come to plan perhaps do physio for the four years and if I still decide to do medicine do the graduate course. Wud that be a gud idea??

Don't know. If it were me and I desparately wanted medicine I would do a 3 year honours degree in something where I could virtually guarantee myself a 2.1 so that I could have a shot at the postgrad GAMSAT. I would of course also do the HPAT every year until I got into med and accept med as soon as I got it even if I hadn't finished my degree. So I would do an 'easy' degree and use the extra spare time to build up CV with extracurricular activities that showed my interest in med. However all that seems to matter for the postgrad is a 2.1 honours degree and nail the GAMSAT.

Like 3 years is only 2 years 8 months academically, but 4 years just seems an eternity. I would just 'switch off' till the HPAT and hope the misery of doing a degree I didn't want passed as painlessly as possible. Of course with my plan if I don't get into med then all I have is a degree and no career. At least with your plan you would be a physiotherapist.

lala00

JW91 wrote: »

I think this HPAT is a great system. It rewards the more intellignet students and it shows the students that are capable of thinking outside the box.

The old system was ridiculous whereby people would get 570 or 580 and get into medicine although they were probably totally unsuitable for it.

As far as I'm concerned learning off stuff in this manner is cheating. plain and simple.
So this HPAT has basiclly caught out the cheaters.
If you were intelligent enough to do the leaving cert properly (i.e. without learning off heaps of stuff by heart) then you would have been intelligent enough to deal with the HPAT

How could learning something off be considered cheating? the reality is your biology book is not going to seep into your brain by osmosis! no matter how clever you are you still need to learn the material. the ability to learn things off by heart is vert important in medicine, therefore the ability to prove that skill in the leaving cert should be rewarded.

poppy08

orangerhyme wrote: »

123 points 13th percentile


Id like the people who did the prep courses to post. to see of it really helped. although it will just be free advertising for the bloodsuckers who run them. i didnt do a course or any prep and got 89% and think i could really improve on that.

I did the prep course, got 158, disappointed doesn't begin to explain! I can't think of anything that went wrong on the day ...apart from the obvious( i was in the RDS)

My brother didn't do a tap for it and got in top 23%(164)...6 points extra make all the difference.

...so I'm praying i scraped 710 and might get a random place,,,,:(

honestly prep courses are not worth the money, i don't even believe its possible to substantially improve your score either...it all just luck and depends on the other students who do it too....

lala00

Xtina!! wrote: »

Thanks for the advice! After my many options for medicine I put down physiotherapy. Like everyone else I really really want to get into medicine. Say if, and very likely so, I dont get into medicine, do physiotherapy for a year and sit the hpat again. O:

Don't forget if you do one course for a year and then switch to another ie physio to med you will have to pay 1 year worth of fees around 5000euro. if you switch in second year you will have to pay 10,000euro.

how about taking a year out to repeat the HPAT, if you get 600! maybe apply to the uk as well? if possible

JSK 252

JW91 wrote: »

I think this HPAT is a great system. It rewards the more intellignet students and it shows the students that are capable of thinking outside the box.

The old system was ridiculous whereby people would get 570 or 580 and get into medicine although they were probably totally unsuitable for it.

I imagine a lot of the people complaining are people who would have got it under the old system. Basically what a lot of you have probably done is that you learned off reams and reams of essays and answers for the leaving cert, you will get high marks but you won't get medicine because you weren't intelligent enough to deal with the HPAT.

As far as I'm concerned learning off stuff in this manner is cheating. plain and simple.
So this HPAT has basiclly caught out the cheaters.
If you were intelligent enough to do the leaving cert properly (i.e. without learning off heaps of stuff by heart) then you would have been intelligent enough to deal with the HPAT

:mad: STFU

So you are saying somebody with 480 points is academically suitable to do medicine? A person not getting high points will find it extremely difficult to hack the course. In my opinion anybody in the 540 + range should be suitable for med.

Somebody who gets 570 points is a cheater? You are some muppet.