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HPAT

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 236 ✭✭drrkpd


    A Neurotic wrote: »
    OH F*CK

    Do the maths we know the figure who did hpat is 2900-3000. Working on 3000 and the fact a percentile is a 100th as I did originally still means each percentile is about 30. This is much better than the 35 per percentile quoted and if it is 29.5 or 30.3 makes very little difference. Qualifax says 405 medical school places,I was quoted undergraduate medical places as 420 but if the Irish Times article is correct and they quote 480-490 even more chance of success.

    We don't know the Leaving Cert results yet. We dont know if all of the top percentiles will get 550 or above. We do know if you were in the 99th or 100th percentile and scored 200 to 230 on hpat ( who is that genius?) you are virtually guaranteed a place but that is only the first 60. There are at least 345 places left and until August 17th first round offers no-one knows the combined score to succeed but it wont stop them guessing!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 236 ✭✭drrkpd


    Adventure wrote: »
    TCD - 700

    UCD/UCC/NUI Galway - 690

    RCSI - 685


    That's what i predict for points.

    Top possible score is genius who got 230 plus 560 Leaving Cert points so is 790.
    Top 30 will be hpat 200+ plus 560 Leaving Cert points is 760+

    Sure Trinity will be highest-always is and fewer places than UCD but as per my last post no-one knows!!!

    Since average hpat is 150 and many people get 550 plus in Leaving Cert. suspect all will be over 700 but I dont know and neither do you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,231 ✭✭✭Fad


    Zenith23 wrote: »
    I heard it's possible to do a 2 year science course in Trinity and then go right into medicine the following year.

    Is this true?

    I've never heard of that, and why wouldnt every one be doing that now if it was an option?


  • Registered Users Posts: 685 ✭✭✭dog_pig


    Yes, each percentile will contain the same number of people (although each percentile will have a different range). Although the 99th percentile is the highest possible, I'm still not sure about dividing the total by 99 instead of 100 to work out the amount in each percentile. It makes intuitive sense to divide by 99, but, I can't imagine it being called percentile if it was based on 99. Although, if for a sample of 3000, you divide by 100 and limit the maximum percentile to 99, 30 people suddenly disappear.

    You don't divide by 99 - you divide by 100; it's called a percentile.


  • Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    dog_pig wrote: »
    You don't divide by 99 - you divide by 100; it's called a percentile.

    I know that, which is why I underlined cent in percentile in my pervious post. It's just a bit counter-intuitive as the highest possible percentile is the 99th (in the vast majority of tests, anyway), and the lowest possible is the 1st (not the 0th).


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  • Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    One thing thats confusing me, say the 90th-99th percentiles, surely theres less in this range than in the say 50th-59th percentile? It must be like a bell curve where theres a small amount in the top or bottom, and the majority in the middle? :confused:

    Yah, around two thirds (68%) will be within a region 15-30 points (depending on the standard deviation they use) either side of 150. (That is if it's actually a normal distribution, which I think it would be).


  • Registered Users Posts: 685 ✭✭✭dog_pig


    I know that, which is why I underlined cent in percentile in my pervious post. It's just a bit counter-intuitive as the highest possible percentile is the 99th (in the vast majority of tests, anyway), and the lowest possible is the 1st (not the 0th).

    Well the highest percentile can only by the 99th as percentiles indicate how your result stands in relation to the results of others who took the tests therefore you yourself must be included in the percentiles, it's the same reason that the lowest is the 1st percentile. You have to distinguish percentiles from percentages


  • Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    dog_pig wrote: »
    Well the highest percentile can only by the 99th as percentiles indicate how your result stands in relation to the results of others who took the tests therefore you yourself must be included in the percentiles, it's the same reason that the lowest is the 1st percentile. You have to distinguish percentiles from percentages

    Yes, I know the difference. But, the lowest is 1%le, and the highest is 99%le, giving only 99 divisions. Which leads to division by 100 being counter-intuitive. I know why you divide by 100 (it's due to you actually counting the gaps between %le's, not %le's themselves), my point was that it was counter-intuitive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 236 ✭✭drrkpd


    Will be fascinating to come back on August 17th and see what actually happened in the first round of offers-what combinations of scores actually succeeded. Dont forget to those who didn't succeed there are other ways into medicine-
    repeating hpat-as often as you like!!
    if people are right in their predictions and you dont have 550 points or above repeat leaving and hpat!!!!!!
    OR do your degree and come to medicine as a graduate. If YOU want to succeed you can.
    Good Luck to all


  • Registered Users Posts: 236 ✭✭drrkpd


    and will leave you with this!!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentile_rank

    Percentile rank

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Jump to: navigation, search
    50px-Merge-arrow.svg.png
    It has been suggested that this article or section be merged into percentile. (Discuss) The percentile rank of a score is the percentage of scores in its frequency distribution which are lower or equal to it. For example, a test score which is greater than or equal to 85% of the scores of people taking the test is said to be at the 85th percentile. Percentile ranks are commonly used to clarify the interpretation of scores on standardized tests. For the test theory, the percentile rank of a raw score is interpreted as the percentages of examinees in the norm group who scored below the score of interest.[1]
    Percentile ranks (PRs or "percentiles") are normally distributed and bell-shaped while normal curve equivalents (NCEs) are uniform and rectangular in shape. Percentile ranks are not on an equal-interval scale; that is, the difference between any two scores is not the same between any other two scores. For example, 50 - 25 = 25 is not the same distance as 60 - 35 = 25 because of the bell-curve shape of the distribution. Some percentile ranks are closer to some than others. Percentile rank 30 is closer on the bell curve to 40 than it is to 20.
    The mathematical formula is
    e14a4157094f59fdfb5692a87b8633b4.png
    where cfl is the cumulative frequency for all scores lower than the score of interest, fi is the frequency of the score of interest, and N is the number of examinees in the sample. If the distribution is normally distributed, the percentile rank can be inferred from the standard score.
    PR_and_NCE.gif magnify-clip.png
    Percentile ranks (PRs or "percentiles") compared to Normal curve equivalents (NCEs)



    URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Percentile_rank&action=edit&section=1"]edit[/URL References

    1. ^ Crocker, L., & Algina, J. (1986). Introduction to classical and modern test theory. New York: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich College Publishers. ISBN 0030616344

    URL="javascript:collapseTable(0);"]hide[/URL
    vde


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  • Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well then, do the calculations that people are doing make sense? Say if someone gets 50 percentile, is it right to assume that there is 3000x50%= 1500 people ahead of them? The same way that if someone gets 95 percentile, that theres 3000x5%= 150 people ahead of them?

    Yah, it is. There are the same number of people at each percentile. For example, if there are 2900 people, there are 29 people at each percentile (2900/100).
    Sorry if that sounds really stupid, but i cant see how we can assume that there are the same amount of people in each percentile

    You see, this is where the confusion arises. The intervals associated with each percentile don't have to be the same. For example, the 99th percentile might cover the range between a score of 200 and a score of 230. But, the 75th percentile might only cover a range between a score of 170 and 173, or whatever. The interval between two different scores, that are worth the same percentile, becomes smaller the closer you get to the mean (150 points). The size of the interval is determined so that 29 people are at each percentile; it's not a set number. So, basically, 29 people are at each percentile, but the range of scores which that percentile "represents" is different for various percentiles.

    (By the way, I'm open to correction on this: my knowledge of statistics is pretty limited).


  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭smndly


    Yah, it is. There are the same number of people at each percentile. For example, if there are 2900 people, there are 29 people at each percentile (2900/100).



    You see, this is where the confusion arises. The intervals associated with each percentile don't have to be the same. For example, the 99th percentile might cover the range between a score of 200 and a score of 230. But, the 75th percentile might only cover a range between a score of 170 and 173, or whatever. The interval between two different scores, that are worth the same percentile, becomes smaller the closer you get to the mean (150 points). The size of the interval is determined so that 29 people are at each percentile; it's not a set number. So, basically, 29 people are at each percentile, but the range of scores which that percentile "represents" is different for various percentiles.

    (By the way, I'm open to correction on this: my knowledge of statistics is pretty limited).


    Bang on Jammy. Percentiles have to do with your position relative to everyone else, not what score you achieved. So each percentile has equal number of people but in the case of the HPAT, a different range of scores. The highest score in the hpat is 253 I think yet he/she is still in the 99th percentile with people who got 200. If we are to believe that 2900 people sat the hpat then each percentile rank equates to 29 people.

    Although according to the CAO figures from January, over 7000 people applied to med in some form or another. I find it hard to believe that 4000 people changed their mind. I suppose if your only half-thinking about medicine, a €90 fee is a deterrent but still....

    Percentile: one of 99 actual or notional values of a variable dividing its distribution into 100 groups with equal frequencies. - collins dictionary.

    The equal frequency means equal numbers per percentile ranking.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭A Neurotic


    Anne-Marie wrote:
    And thanks for taking such an interest in this thread to help us out, even tho you're not applying to medicine, since we all seem to be quite clueless about the whole thing! :) Good to have a mathematician on board :P

    I second this. It's really appreciated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,924 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    123 points 13th percentile
    150 points 49 th percentile
    161 points 69th percentile
    164 points 73rd percentile
    173 points 84th percentile
    176 points 86th percentile
    177 points 87th percentile
    179
    89th
    180-183 points 92nd percentile
    185,186 points 93rd percentile
    187,188 points 94th percentile
    191,192 points 96th percentile
    201-205 points 99th percentile

    looking at this i would guess 720 will be the entry points...i'm 704:confused:
    I think if you've got this much you should be hopeful..
    A guy earlier posted an intresting story about his gf and her friend both practiced the booklets together and were getting similar scores. one did a hpat prep cousre(and got in the high 90's percentile) and the other didn't and got below 30 percentile.

    Id like the people who did the prep courses to post. to see of it really helped. although it will just be free advertising for the bloodsuckers who run them. i didnt do a course or any prep and got 89% and think i could really improve on that.

    I honestly think the system is fairer than the previous one although i think it needs a tweeking. I actually wish the the cutoff wasn't 550 and more like 530 i.e. so 600 points was 544.
    I think alot of smart students get around the 500+ mark but for myriad reaasons e.g. poverty, unsupportive family, bad school + teachers etcc..
    sont reaally blossum til university if at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,924 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    comiserations to anyone that didn't do well but i think the hpat is a more accurate measure of intelligence than the leaving cert


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭Acid_Violet


    A friend of mine got 211. On his card it GENUINELY said 100th percentile. I kid y'all not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭pathway33


    A friend of mine got 211. On his card it GENUINELY said 100th percentile. I kid y'all not.

    and is there any chance at all that he might have feked up his leaving?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭Acid_Violet


    No none, soz.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭pathway33


    No none, soz.

    ok.....404 places left


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭JW91


    I think this HPAT is a great system. It rewards the more intellignet students and it shows the students that are capable of thinking outside the box.

    The old system was ridiculous whereby people would get 570 or 580 and get into medicine although they were probably totally unsuitable for it.

    I imagine a lot of the people complaining are people who would have got it under the old system. Basically what a lot of you have probably done is that you learned off reams and reams of essays and answers for the leaving cert, you will get high marks but you won't get medicine because you weren't intelligent enough to deal with the HPAT.

    As far as I'm concerned learning off stuff in this manner is cheating. plain and simple.
    So this HPAT has basiclly caught out the cheaters.
    If you were intelligent enough to do the leaving cert properly (i.e. without learning off heaps of stuff by heart) then you would have been intelligent enough to deal with the HPAT


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Xtina!!


    I didn't do very well in my hpat. Absolutly gutted!:( Defo thought I did better. I think I'll get 600, hopefully, so my hpat score will be 131+560=691. Is there any hope for me yet? Considering that some people didn't put medicine down as their first choice and some might not do as well in their leaving cert? I think its pointless to repeat if I do well in my leaving. But yet I dont want to waste 4 years of my life doing a course that I hate and then get into a graduate entry into medicine. I dont think the hpat and the leaving have to be done in the same year. Im so confused about my cao and the closing date is on the 1st of July. Agh!! Can someone please give me some advice!??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭pathway33


    Xtina!! wrote: »
    I dont think the hpat and the leaving have to be done in the same year. Im so confused about my cao and the closing date is on the 1st of July. Agh!! Can someone please give me some advice!??

    This is true. The HPAT and leaving do not have to be done in the same year. You can keep your points from the leaving this year and do the HPAT next year


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 782 ✭✭✭tootyflutty


    Xtina, just wait and see what happens, leave medicine as your first choices, and then put down something you might have considered otherwise.
    Have you considered maybe taking another course that you might get offered and doing that for a year, you can always take the hpat again next year if your not happy in that course and reapply to CAO for medicine. But in that case you will probably have to pay repeat fees for college, it's something to think about though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭pathway33


    Xtina!! wrote: »
    I dont want to waste 4 years of my life doing a course that I hate and then get into a graduate entry into medicine...... Im so confused about my cao and the closing date is on the 1st of July. Agh!! Can someone please give me some advice!??

    you might'nt hate this course
    http://www.qualifax.ie/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=16
    as it says 'Medicinal chemistry would also serve as an excellent primary degree for a graduate course in medicine.'



    or

    http://www.qualifax.ie/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=16


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Xtina!!


    Thanks for the advice! After my many options for medicine I put down physiotherapy. Like everyone else I really really want to get into medicine. Say if, and very likely so, I dont get into medicine, do physiotherapy for a year and sit the hpat again. Or if that doesnt come to plan perhaps do physio for the four years and if I still decide to do medicine do the graduate course. Wud that be a gud idea??:confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭pathway33


    Xtina!! wrote: »
    Thanks for the advice! After my many options for medicine I put down physiotherapy. Like everyone else I really really want to get into medicine. Say if, and very likely so, I dont get into medicine, do physiotherapy for a year and sit the hpat again. Or if that doesnt come to plan perhaps do physio for the four years and if I still decide to do medicine do the graduate course. Wud that be a gud idea??:confused:

    Don't know. If it were me and I desparately wanted medicine I would do a 3 year honours degree in something where I could virtually guarantee myself a 2.1 so that I could have a shot at the postgrad GAMSAT. I would of course also do the HPAT every year until I got into med and accept med as soon as I got it even if I hadn't finished my degree. So I would do an 'easy' degree and use the extra spare time to build up CV with extracurricular activities that showed my interest in med. However all that seems to matter for the postgrad is a 2.1 honours degree and nail the GAMSAT.

    Like 3 years is only 2 years 8 months academically, but 4 years just seems an eternity. I would just 'switch off' till the HPAT and hope the misery of doing a degree I didn't want passed as painlessly as possible. Of course with my plan if I don't get into med then all I have is a degree and no career. At least with your plan you would be a physiotherapist.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26 lala00


    JW91 wrote: »
    I think this HPAT is a great system. It rewards the more intellignet students and it shows the students that are capable of thinking outside the box.

    The old system was ridiculous whereby people would get 570 or 580 and get into medicine although they were probably totally unsuitable for it.

    As far as I'm concerned learning off stuff in this manner is cheating. plain and simple.
    So this HPAT has basiclly caught out the cheaters.
    If you were intelligent enough to do the leaving cert properly (i.e. without learning off heaps of stuff by heart) then you would have been intelligent enough to deal with the HPAT




    How could learning something off be considered cheating? the reality is your biology book is not going to seep into your brain by osmosis! no matter how clever you are you still need to learn the material. the ability to learn things off by heart is vert important in medicine, therefore the ability to prove that skill in the leaving cert should be rewarded.


  • Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭poppy08


    123 points 13th percentile


    Id like the people who did the prep courses to post. to see of it really helped. although it will just be free advertising for the bloodsuckers who run them. i didnt do a course or any prep and got 89% and think i could really improve on that.
    I did the prep course, got 158, disappointed doesn't begin to explain! I can't think of anything that went wrong on the day ...apart from the obvious( i was in the RDS)

    My brother didn't do a tap for it and got in top 23%(164)...6 points extra make all the difference.

    ...so I'm praying i scraped 710 and might get a random place,,,,:(

    honestly prep courses are not worth the money, i don't even believe its possible to substantially improve your score either...it all just luck and depends on the other students who do it too....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26 lala00


    Xtina!! wrote: »
    Thanks for the advice! After my many options for medicine I put down physiotherapy. Like everyone else I really really want to get into medicine. Say if, and very likely so, I dont get into medicine, do physiotherapy for a year and sit the hpat again. O:


    Don't forget if you do one course for a year and then switch to another ie physio to med you will have to pay 1 year worth of fees around 5000euro. if you switch in second year you will have to pay 10,000euro.

    how about taking a year out to repeat the HPAT, if you get 600! maybe apply to the uk as well? if possible


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭JSK 252


    JW91 wrote: »
    I think this HPAT is a great system. It rewards the more intellignet students and it shows the students that are capable of thinking outside the box.

    The old system was ridiculous whereby people would get 570 or 580 and get into medicine although they were probably totally unsuitable for it.

    I imagine a lot of the people complaining are people who would have got it under the old system. Basically what a lot of you have probably done is that you learned off reams and reams of essays and answers for the leaving cert, you will get high marks but you won't get medicine because you weren't intelligent enough to deal with the HPAT.

    As far as I'm concerned learning off stuff in this manner is cheating. plain and simple.
    So this HPAT has basiclly caught out the cheaters.
    If you were intelligent enough to do the leaving cert properly (i.e. without learning off heaps of stuff by heart) then you would have been intelligent enough to deal with the HPAT

    :mad: STFU

    So you are saying somebody with 480 points is academically suitable to do medicine? A person not getting high points will find it extremely difficult to hack the course. In my opinion anybody in the 540 + range should be suitable for med.

    Somebody who gets 570 points is a cheater? You are some muppet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭cantona56


    pathway33 wrote: »
    Don't know. If it were me and I desparately wanted medicine I would do a 3 year honours degree in something where I could virtually guarantee myself a 2.1 so that I could have a shot at the postgrad GAMSAT. I would of course also do the HPAT every year until I got into med and accept med as soon as I got it even if I hadn't finished my degree.

    Like 3 years is only 2 years 8 months academically, but 4 years just seems an eternity. I would just 'switch off' till the HPAT and hope the misery of doing a degree I didn't want passed as painlessly as possible. Of course with my plan if I don't get into med then all I have is a degree and no career. At least with your plan you would be a physiotherapist.

    I like the sound of this advice pathway! med is all i want to do but with a max possible score of 713 i have 2 chances of gettin it, slim and none!!:p...was hopin to go down the sports road when i qualify...found a lovely health and performance 3year course in ucd which i mite actually enjoy which would also give me a good background for sports medicine!

    just one thing! how risky exactly is graduate entry?? iv checked it up some and there are very few places up for grabs!! ie. 20 places in ucd. would this shortage not at least double the competition???:eek:...its tough enough as it is!!...any help really appreciated.....i was depending on med 100% and now i need a plan b within the next 6 days!! HELP!!!:confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26 lala00


    poppy08 wrote: »
    I

    ...so I'm praying i scraped 710 and might get a random place,

    ..

    Im hoping 710 is enough too! I have 712 from last years leaving cert results and the hpat 552 & 160.

    best of luck poppy!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭cantona56


    JSK 252 wrote: »
    :mad: STFU

    Somebody who gets 570 points is a cheater? You are some muppet.

    I SECOND THIS. WHAT A MUPPET!........


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Xtina!!


    lala00 wrote: »
    Don't forget if you do one course for a year and then switch to another ie physio to med you will have to pay 1 year worth of fees around 5000euro. if you switch in second year you will have to pay 10,000euro.

    how about taking a year out to repeat the HPAT, if you get 600! maybe apply to the uk as well? if possible

    Yeah suppose. I know I can do better in the hpat because an unfortunate incident happened during the exam and I wont go into details.:mad: But I want to do something with myself for the next year. I agree with Cantona56, really need a plan B too and fast!!! I dont want to be hanging around, and get a degree with no career, like what pathway33 said. If I did physio, yeah, I wud have a definite career waiting for me if I dont get into medicine. But at the same time I could be carrying out the requirements to get into med and hopefully do well in 2010 and get in. Yes it would be easier to do an 'easy' degree. Does anyone know of any other useful courses besides medicinal chemistry? I know one person who was planning on doing biological sciences for 4 yrs and then do med. But thats exactly the same as doing physio but 'easier'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭pathway33


    cantona56 wrote: »
    how risky exactly is graduate entry?? iv checked it up some and there are very few places up for grabs!! ie. 20 places in ucd. would this shortage not at least double the competition???:eek:...

    I'd say very risky. Like there are now hundreds more who would have not even considered medicine last year but now that they have got it into their heads there's going to be a glut of postgrads doing the GAMSAT in 3 years. :( Keep doing the Hpat is all I can say


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,290 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    JSK 252 wrote: »
    So you are saying somebody with 480 points is academically suitable to do medicine? A person not getting high points will find it extremely difficult to hack the course.

    I'm not so sure about that.
    It is the mad scramble for places that makes the points needed so high that only very high achievers get in. It's not an indication of how 'hard' the course is.

    480 points is a WELL above average Leaving Cert. score and would in my mind indicate a person well able to tackle any university course, including medicine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭pathway33


    Xtina!! wrote: »
    Does anyone know of any other useful courses besides medicinal chemistry? [/font]

    http://www.qualifax.ie/index.php?opt...pper&Itemid=16 :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26 lala00


    Xtina

    Its a good thing that you can identify what went wrong this year, do you definately want to start a course in september?

    options

    Four year courses
    biomed ucd
    health and disease tcd
    general science ucd and tcd dcu
    physio UCD TCD RCSI UL
    pharmacy TCD RCSI
    Nursing
    occupational therapy
    social work



    3 year courses
    psychology ucd

    would you think about applying to medicine in the uk?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Xtina!!


    lala00 wrote: »
    Xtina

    Its a good thing that you can identify what went wrong this year, do you definately want to start a course in september?...
    ...would you think about applying to medicine in the uk?

    I never really considered the uk as I had never intended to go there. I dont know if I want to start a course in september. I defo got over 580 in the leaving so I see no point in repeating. I dont want to hang around for the next year waiting to do the hpat again so id do a course. If I decide to do a course i'd do physio but as someone said it costs thousands to move courses. Tanx for your help but I honestly havent a clue what to do. So many options!:confused: Whats the procedure for applying to the uk? Its a bit late now I know.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭pathway33


    Xtina!! wrote: »
    Whats the procedure for applying to the uk? Its a bit late now I know.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055599370


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Xtina!!


    pathway33 wrote: »

    Tanx a million! At this stage now, im just either gonna go and apply for some course and then get into med. Or I can just wait until the offers come out nd if I dont get into med accept physio and keep applying for the hpat. Is that a gud plan?? But you never know I might get into med (doubtful), but there's still hope for us all. The hpat results were so unpredictable. We'll see what happens at the end of the day.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,148 ✭✭✭✭KnifeWRENCH


    JW91 wrote: »
    I think this HPAT is a great system. It rewards the more intellignet students and it shows the students that are capable of thinking outside the box.
    I agree with that...
    As far as I'm concerned learning off stuff in this manner is cheating. plain and simple.
    So this HPAT has basiclly caught out the cheaters.
    If you were intelligent enough to do the leaving cert properly (i.e. without learning off heaps of stuff by heart) then you would have been intelligent enough to deal with the HPAT

    ...but that is an absolute pile of rubbish.
    How the hell is is cheating to learn stuff off by heart? That's the way the LEaving Cert works: it rewards students who worked hard. Unless you have a photographic memory, learning a load of stuff off by heart is bloody hard work and requires a lot of effort, which should then be rewarded.

    How the hell do you expect someone to do well at Leaving Cert in Biology or History if they can't learn off by heart? :rolleyes:
    JSK 252 wrote:
    :mad: STFU
    ...
    You are some muppet.
    cantona56 wrote:
    SECOND THIS. WHAT A MUPPET!........


    Read the forum charter here. Personal abuse isn't tolerated here. Don't do it again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭pathway33


    Xtina!! wrote: »
    Tanx a million! At this stage now, im just either gonna go and apply for some course and then get into med. Or I can just wait until the offers come out nd if I dont get into med accept physio and keep applying for the hpat. Is that a gud plan?? But you never know I might get into med (doubtful), but there's still hope for us all. The hpat results were so unpredictable. We'll see what happens at the end of the day.


    If you are genuinely interested in physiotherapy as a career its a good plan. Other med hopefuls are doing those trinity courses that are medically chemically related and perhaps they feel they will have a better foundation in the chemistry of the body and be better doctors for that if they ever become doctors. Physio is a tough course I'd say. Will you definitely get a 2.1 yeah? Would you feel more confident in getting a 2.1 in a sciencey course?

    New Plan:

    1.med
    2.med
    3.med
    4.med
    5.med
    6.vet med
    7.dentistry
    8.podiatry
    9.medicinal chemistry
    10.arts


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭cantona56


    I agree with that...



    ...but that is an absolute pile of rubbish.
    How the hell is is cheating to learn stuff off by heart? That's the way the LEaving Cert works: it rewards students who worked hard. Unless you have a photographic memory, learning a load of stuff off by heart is bloody hard work and requires a lot of effort, which should then be rewarded.

    How the hell do you expect someone to do well at Leaving Cert in Biology or History if they can't learn off by heart? :rolleyes:






    Read the forum charter here. Personal abuse isn't tolerated here. Don't do it again.


    ok knife wrench, will take that on board but in fairness, after working my ass off for too years learning stuff to do well in the LC( the same as probly everyone else) to get medicine, and then get told by some stranger that it was cheating, like wtf???:mad:...stupid 'POST'!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Xtina!!


    Oh I don't know. I'm so confused now I don't know what to do.Perhaps I would have more confidence doing a sciency course. I wouldn't mind doing physio but I had my heart set on medicine. I was thinking, I didn't do chemistry for my leaving (you can do th 6 year course without it) but I regretted it because I've actually thought of vet med. Maybe if I take a year out, do chemistry and sit the hpat again. I know I got the points for it this year. And if I don't get it again I could always defer a year nd start in september. What do years matter when it comes to medicine. I would still have a choice between vet med and physio. But yet I could do a science course. I'm sure you don't have this problem pathway33?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Xtina!!


    cantona56 wrote: »
    .....i was depending on med 100% and now i need a plan b within the next 6 days!! HELP!!!:confused:

    You seem to be in the same boat as I am (like many others). Have you decided what to do yet??:confused:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 51 ✭✭ThehPatroniser


    Tuesday, September 16, 2008
    Making sense of the changes in medicine
    BRIAN MOONEY'S ADVICE CENTRE: A new era in medical education and training
    Following reforms introduced by Mary Hanafin, those seeking an undergraduate place in one of the five medical faculties in Sept 2009 will have to meet the course entry requirements and achieve a minimum threshold score of 480 points in a single sitting of the Leaving Cert (or equivalent).

    How many places will the new system offer?
    There will continue to be an increase in medical places, at both undergraduate and post-graduate level over the next few years with an overall increase of 420 places by 2010/2011. Full details of all aspects of the new system are available at www.cao.ie
    If I failed to secure entry in previous years, should I repeat my Leaving Cert in 2009?
    If you have secured more than 480 points and have met all the entry requirements in one sitting, you do not have to repeat and can progress to taking the HPAT aptitude test in the autumn. However, be mindful that if you have secured less than 550 points, you would need to perform exceptionally well in your HPAT assessment to overtake students who have secured more that the 550 points. My advice is to repeat if you are below 550 points, but not if you have achieved this score as the maximum you can add is 1 point for every extra 5 you score above 550.
    I am currently in the final year of a science degree. How can I apply for a post- graduate medical place?
    About 300 applicants actively competed for the post graduate places on offer this year. These places were open to all graduates of any discipline, who have secures a minimum of a 2:1 honours, on a level-eight degree. There will be 240 post-graduate places available in 2010/2011, and it is a four year programme. Fees are €25,000 per year, but the Department of Education and Science is paying €12,000 of that on student's behalf.
    What changes will the new medical entry system bring about?
    It will eliminate the four-to-one ratio of females over males. The previous system led to success for those securing between 570-600 CAO points, eighty percent of whom were female. The discounted nature of the points scored between 550 and 600, in the new application rules will eliminate that female advantage. The development of 240 post-graduate entry places which will also see a balanced male/female profile of entry, will copperfasten this trend.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,962 ✭✭✭jumpguy


    Okay, I am a male BTW, but isn't that kinda a stupid reason to bring in the HPAT? Females and males take the same leaving cert, if someone works hard and gets the points, they should get into medicine, regardless of their gender. Just because females outperform males there's no reason to try and cut back females and get more males in, if females just outperform them. Perhaps the job is being saturated with female doctors, but then again, I think being a doctor has no advantages for a certain gender.

    I do think the HPAT is a good idea, it puts medicine within more people's reach, and it allows more people than just the academically talented to get in, but if that's the reason they brought it in, then that's not cool.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 51 ✭✭ThehPatroniser


    "What changes will the new medical entry system bring about?
    It will eliminate the four-to-one ratio of females over males. The previous system led to success for those securing between 570-600 CAO points, eighty percent of whom were female. The discounted nature of the points scored between 550 and 600, in the new application rules will eliminate that female advantage. The development of 240 post-graduate entry places which will also see a balanced male/female profile of entry, will copperfasten this trend." (Source Brian Mooney Guidance Counsellor)


    I assume that the theory underpinning the hpat is that there is almost no variation between IQ type scores as between males/females (except at the outer reaches of the Bell curve). Thus, the hpat will water down the female advantage arising from the Leaving Result? But that dosen't make sense: if the hpat is sex neutral, and the the LC clearly favours the female (cause they actually work really hard, whereas lads are not genetically designed for work!),then the hpat WILL NOT EXCLUDE THE SEX IMBALANCE. This makes me wonder if the hpat is deliberately designed to penalise females, perhaps being weighted to include more spatial type questions. If that is the case I think female candidates would have just grounds for complaint. I reckon the government dosent like female candidates cause ,over a lifetime, you will lose more of them along the way than their male peers, who generally have the benefit of wives... a great asset if you spend all your waking hours at work...There's something of the night about this down under test...Me gonads tell me that there's a whole lot going on behind closed doors. But what?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,962 ✭✭✭jumpguy


    Erm, nah, I doubt there's a big conspiracy theory going on here now...I think it just boosts more males into the "viable option" zone therefore increasing the amount of viable males.


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