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Scotland v Ireland (pre/during/post thread)

  • 09-03-2009 11:48pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,155 ✭✭✭ juvenal


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    Scotland v Ireland
    Saturday 14 March 2009, 5.00pm (Irish)
    Murrayfield, Edinburgh
    Live on RTÉ2, RTÉ.ie, RTÉ Radio 1; BBC1, BBC Radio 5 Live

    Scotland|No.|Ireland
    Chris Patterson|15|Rob Kearney
    Simon Danielli|14|Tommy Bowe
    Max Evans|13|Brian O'Driscoll
    Graeme Morrison|12|Gordon D'arcy
    Thom Evans|11|Luke Fitzgerald
    Phil Godman|10|Ronan O'Gara
    Mike Blair|9|Peter Stringer
    Alasdair Dickinson|1|Marcus Horan
    Ross Ford|2|Rory Best
    Euan Murray|3|John Hayes
    TBC|4|Donncha O'Callaghan
    TBC|5|Paul O'Connell
    Alasdair Strokosch|6|Stephen Ferris
    John Barclay|7|David Wallace
    Simon Taylor|8|Denis Leamy

    Scotland replacements: Dougie Hall, Moray Low, AN Other lock, Scott Gray, Chris Cusiter, AN Other, Hugo Southwell.

    Ireland replacements: Jerry Flannery, Tom Court, Mick O’Driscoll, Jamie Heaslip, Tomás O'Leary, Paddy Wallace, Geordan Murphy.

    Referee: Jonathan Kaplan (South Africa)
    Touch judges: Wayne Barnes (England), Carlo Damasco (Italy)
    TMO: Hugh Watkins (Wales)

    If there was a website about this fixture, and it’s importance in the greater scheme of the 2009 Six Nations championship, it would be www.bananaskin.com.

    The pitfalls of playing a somewhat resurgent Scottish team in their own backyard are well documented, and certainly this is probably the one place where an upset is most conceivable. After scraping though, albeit deservedly, against a tough English side who did themselves no favours in the sinbin and were the lucky beneficiaries of a Ronan O’Gara off-day, Ireland travel to Edinburgh with the sort of quiet confidence that hasn’t been in the camp in several years.

    An opening win against a strong French side (who subsequently see-sawed themselves though the following two matches), followed by a cursory dismissal of Italy, set the stage for a massive clash against the old enemy. England were on somewhat of a resurgence after an unconvincing opening day performance was followed up by a big improvement in Cardiff, and when Ireland sent them back to Blighty and improving to 3-for-3, there were nervous whispers of a first G**** S*** since 1948.

    Gordon Darcy is pushing hard for selection in the starting XV after a good performance for Leinster in Swansea at the weekend, and equally Rory Best is no more than a shade outside the starting hooker role, with consistent performances for Ulster. While Paddy Wallace and Jerry Flannery have performed very well, it’s a matter of taste at this stage who will get the nod. Knee-jerk reaction calling for O’Gara’s head after an admittedly poor performance against England is unwarranted, and I fully expect him to return to his usual high standard with a big performance on Saturday.

    Kidney is renowned for not giving away an inch to the press, and as is to be expected no-one really knows what the team announcement tomorrow will say. Some schools of thought point to the Welsh model of wholesale changes and rest players, although this is highly unlikely given Kidney’s track-record, while others question the sanity of changing a winning team. At most, there may be a couple of changes, but I’d be surprised to see any changes in personnel across the 22, save perhaps for someone on the bench. The impact of the bench, especially Stringer and D’arcy is well documented at this stage, and could provide vital impetus should Ireland need to break the game open at some stage of the afternoon.

    The Scots are coming off a somewhat comfortable win against Italy, and are finding a decent few players in the back line in Max and Thom Evans. The trusty boot of Chris Patterson is always worth a few points, and the Irish pack with have to be very disciplined and not give away too many kickable penalties, as they will be punished on the scoreboard. Expect to see a fair bit of running rugby, and depending on the weather forecast, we hope not to see a brand of foot-tennis that at times tarnished the match in Croke Park two weeks ago. The Irish backline will be relying on the pack and the scrumhalf to secure and supply quality, go forward ball to make inroads into the Scottish defence, and the second consecutive matchup between the Irish team and a former defensive coach should be interesting.

    Despite the Scots improvements since their first outing against Wales, Ireland should have more than enough guile and ability to secure a fourth win in a row and move to Cardiff with the 100% record intact. It won’t be easy, but we’ll be looking to senior players to call on experience and leadership skills as there will be moments when it will be difficult. Ronan O’Gara will also be expected to improve dramatically, and I fully expect him to. Don’t expect a walk in the park, but Ireland have enough in all areas of the game, including the management, to see off the Scots. There’s too much experience in the dressing room to be complacent, and I see Ireland winning by 10-15.

    Scotland 13 Ireland 27?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭ Spore


    would really love to see some fresh legs in the starting 15, don't know if that'll happen. Mick O Driscoll deserves a berth, as does Darcy deserve to start. If Kidney keeps the same 15 again and then again for Wales we'll be slaughtered. Think Gatland had the right idea to make wholesale changes against Italy, save his men, stir it up a bit for the Ireland game when they could potentially give us a whalloping.

    If it's the same 15 I would give us a win... just.

    Ire 22*
    Scotland 20




    *last minute BOD drop goal FTW!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭ chupacabra


    Im really hoping for an expansive game this weekend, Alan Gaffney said it himself today to expect "lots of running rugby" against the scots. Our defense will be too much for them i think, Danielli and the Evans brothers are main danger men, and if Hines and Hamilton come back into the squad as predicted scotland will have their best possible team and will be full of confidence infront of their home crowd. Im gonna say 10 - 23 to ireland.

    Also your threads are very well written, keep up the good work. :cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 800 puntosporting


    I think its time to drop paddy wallace to the bench in bring back in Gordon Darcy taught he played well the weekend!
    I expect Heaslip to up his game for this one he was some what annonomous(spell) against the english!
    Would not tinker too much with a winning side to be honest need a bit of continuity!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,104 ✭✭✭ fifth


    I would now like to see Darce on for wallace against the scots!

    Let's see a strong game from kearney and as a prev poster mentioned Heaslip as well. ROG will be back on form after being shaken up by an off day.


    Ireland by 10-15 points.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,155 ✭✭✭ juvenal


    Spore wrote: »
    would really love to see some fresh legs in the starting 15, don't know if that'll happen. Mick O Driscoll deserves a berth, as does Darcy deserve to start. If Kidney keeps the same 15 again and then again for Wales we'll be slaughtered. Think Gatland had the right idea to make wholesale changes against Italy, save his men, stir it up a bit for the Ireland game when they could potentially give us a whalloping.

    If it's the same 15 I would give us a win... just.

    Ire 22*
    Scotland 20




    *last minute BOD drop goal FTW!

    I personally wouldn't advocate wholesale changes, two at the most and even then it would be at inside centre and scrumhalf. While I've a lot of time for MOD and rate him in a provincial/club sense, I think he falls short of being a first-rate international test lock. With a fully-fit Munster panel, he wouldn't be in the starting XV, so I think it's a stretch to call for his inclusion in the national side in what is a crucial match.

    IMO the only focus right now should be the Six Nations Championship. Building for the future can wait until the summer and AI's; between the Churchill Cup, the summer tour and the Lions in South Africa, there are plenty of high quality matches on the horizon that will enable the established players to tour along with the up-and-coming. There will be so many matches this summer that there'd almost be enough space for a few lads here to being their gear and tog out for a game!:P

    I can see MOD and others of his ilk being the leading members of the North American tour, with the young pretenders coming to the fore and a further chance in the Churchill Cup to nurture younger talent. I think right now the best XV should be starting, with a few players unlucky to miss out, but the focus should be on the here and now, rather than the there and then.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,577 Colm_OReilly


    I'm wondering if the Welsh wholesale changes will be their undoing? We have a points difference advantage of 23 over Wales atm, and let's say we put 10 over the Scots (and the record would seem to indicate this is exactly what we'll do) Wales need to beat Italy by 30 odd to really give themselves a chance in Cardiff.

    While it would be nice for Wales to slip in Rome I don't think it's gonna happen, but assuming that France, Ireland and Wales win at the weekend, Wales might regret resting their big guns this weekend.

    My prediction for this weekend, Ireland by 10-15. First half will be tough, but Ireland will pull away, showing glimpses of the class we displayed against France. Probably another try by BoD, with RoG finding his kicking boots again and PoC putting the fear of God into them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,990 ✭✭✭✭ zAbbo


    The only possible changes are at 2,9 & 12 and even then those are very marginal calls.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,776 Noopti


    Waiting for the teams before making any score predictions, but Ireland should beat Scotland. It will be tight, and a physical battle but if Ireland don't win this it will be down to their own failures rather than Scotland being better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,577 ✭✭✭✭ Aidric


    Enough about this resurgant Scotland rubbish. This was being spouted at the outset of the six nations as well and they haven't come anywhere near delivering. This is an Ireland side on an upward curve with a sound management team in situ. I'm hoping they'll click like they did in the French game and put the Scots to the sword. Unfortunately, Scotland like Italy & England will look to a flat defence to stifle the Irish and ruin the game as a spectacle. That said I'm hoping and expecting for a 12-15 point winning margin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,257 anonymous_joe


    Aidric wrote: »
    Enough about this resurgant Scotland rubbish. This was being spouted at the outset of the six nations as well and they haven't come anywhere near delivering. This is an Ireland side on an upward curve with a sound management team in situ. I'm hoping they'll click like they did in the French game and put the Scots to the sword. Unfortunately, Scotland like Italy & England will look to a flat defence to stifle the Irish and ruin the game as a spectacle. That said I'm hoping and expecting for a 12-15 point winning margin.

    Ah in fairness to them, this is the best Scotland team in a good few years. That doesn't say much about 'em, but they really are improving. They just have a massive distance to go.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,987 Auvers


    Aidric wrote: »
    Scotland like Italy & England will look to a flat defence to stifle the Irish and ruin the game as a spectacle.

    well lets hope O'Gara has his kicking boots on this weekend, If so Ireland should win comfortably by 15-20 points


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,772 toomevara


    Paterson to start for Scotland, that says it all...going to be a tough grinding game...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/scottish/7934396.stm


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,257 anonymous_joe


    Godman starting too though I thought?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,776 Noopti


    Aidric wrote: »
    Unfortunately, Scotland like Italy & England will look to a flat defence to stifle the Irish and ruin the game as a spectacle.

    Damn them anyway for choosing a defensive pattern that could prevent us playing!? What are thinking! They should be giving the fans an entertaining game, even if it does mean allowing us to run riot...... :rolleyes:

    If teams choose a certain defensive method than the onus is on the attacking team to overcome that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,776 Noopti


    This from MunsterFans:
    And Here: http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/rugby/eyaucwkfeykf/

    Gordon D’Arcy, Peter Stringer, Rory Best and Denis Leamy have all been elevated to the starting XV after several appearances from the replacements bench during the first three games of the Championship and strong performances in the Magners League for their provinces.

    D’Arcy starts his first game for Ireland in over a year after being named in the centre in place of Paddy Wallace, who moves to the replacements. Scrumhalf Peter Stringer takes up the No.9 jersey after swapping places with Tomas O’Leary who started the games against France, Italy and England.

    The other two changes to the Ireland side are in the pack. In the front row, Rory Best is named at hooker with Jerry Flannery taking Best’s position among the replacements. Denis Leamy, who came on in place of Jamie Heaslip during the England game, is picked to start the game at No.8 with Heaslip backing up from the bench.

    The game will also be landmark for Ireland tight head prop John Hayes who will become the most capped Irish player of all time with 93 caps to his name, overhauling fellow Ireland squad member Malcolm O’Kelly’s previous record.

    IRELAND TEAM & REPLACEMENTS (v Scotland, 2009 RBS 6 Nations Championship, Murrayfield, Saturday, March 14, kick-off 5.30pm):

    15 - Robert Kearney (UCD - Leinster)

    14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)

    13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD - Leinster) Captain

    12 - Gordon D’Arcy (Lansdowne - Leinster)

    11 - Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College - Leinster)

    10 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution - Munster)

    9 - Peter Stringer (Shannon - Munster)

    1 - Marcus Horan (Shannon - Munster)

    2 - Rory Best (Banbridge - Ulster)

    3 - John Hayes (Bruff- Munster)

    4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution - Munster)

    5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster - Munster)

    6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon - Ulster)

    7 - David Wallace (Garryowen - Munster)

    8 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution - Munster)

    Replacements:
    16 - Jerry Flannery (Shannon - Munster)
    17 - Tom Court (Malone - Ulster)
    18 - Mick O’Driscoll (Cork Constitution - Munster)
    19 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas - Leinster)
    20 - Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin - Munster)
    21 - Paddy Wallace (Ballymena - Ulster)
    22 - Geordan Murphy (Leicester)

    Edit: Opps....forgot


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 41,957 _blank_


    Noopti, could you credit the source of that please :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,155 ✭✭✭ juvenal


    Confirmed on the IRFU website. Four changes, I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised. No changes across the 22, and ample strength on the bench as usual to make an impact.

    I think Stringer is the key choice, as while I feel O'Leary is more suited to executing a specific tactical game plan that includes kicking, Stringer's quick hands will hopefully provide the backline with the sort of ball they want to cut a few shreds in the Scottish defence. The vast differences between O'Leary and Stringer's games are ideal for them to be swapping in and out of a starting XV, with the other remaining on the bench to bring something entirely knew to the party when called upon.

    Can't really quibble with the other selections tbh, and while Fla, Heaslip and Wallace could count themselves unlucky, I think Heaslip especially is being given a break with Cardiff in mind. Even if Leamy has a storming game, I can't see him getting the nod over Heaslip in a potential showdown in Wales, although who knows!

    There's next to nothing between Best and Flannery, and both players I feel equally comfortable with in the starting pack, even if they have differing strengths. I also wouldn't be surprised to see BOD being given a break depending on the situation on the scoreboard, with Darcy and Wallace pairing up at centre with 20/25 to go.

    Makes for a very interesting game, as much from an individual performance point-of-view as anything else. I'll still stick with my original prediction of 10-15.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 69 ✭✭✭ gearstick


    glad to see dk mixing things up a bit, would like to see some of the younger players comin through tho but glad to see a few changes anyway


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,155 ✭✭✭ juvenal


    gearstick wrote: »
    glad to see dk mixing things up a bit, would like to see some of the younger players comin through tho but glad to see a few changes anyway

    That would be madness IMO. Most of the current 22 have been the backbone of what Irish rugby has done over the past decade, and they fully deserve this opportunity. There are two national tours and a Lions tour this summer, followed by the AI's, so there'll be ample time and opportunity to develop the younger talent.

    Bringing in players from outside the 22 at this stage just for the sake of it would be counter-productive and potentially disasterous for this campaign.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 TarfHead


    You'd get poor quickly trying to second-guess Declan Kidney ;) !

    That must be a tough one for Heaslip to take.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,155 ✭✭✭ juvenal


    TarfHead wrote: »
    You'd get poor quickly trying to second-guess Declan Kidney ;) !

    That must be a tough one for Heaslip to take.

    That's a fact - I'd hate to play poker against him!

    Re Heaslip, I think he's being given a well-earned rest, and while he was subdued against England from an ovious point of view, he still went through an awful lot of work with the rest of the backrow.

    I imagine that DK had a chat with him and told him that he'll be starting against Wales.* In fact, I'd be surprised if he features at all against the Scots, unless Leamy or anyone in the backrow is unfortunate enough to get injured. Leamy could do with a full 80 minutes of test rugby at this point, and that could be key if we need him in Cardiff. Hopefully we'll travel onto Wales with a 100% record and a fully fit and match fit squad.

    *This is a total guess and without proof!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,969 ✭✭✭ buck65


    Our biggest test will be breaking down the Scots defence. In attack Scotland will offer little. If this was soccer you could play your goalie on the half way line. Ireland by 12 in a pig of a game (what else with Scotland)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,963 ✭✭✭ Goose81


    Heaslip will come on at 60 id say and start the next game.

    O'Leary is probably being rested aswell.

    The one you can pick is between Wallace and Darcy.Darcy has been playing these last few weeks so he is fit and id expect if he plays well he will get the nod.


    Its a long time since we have seen a form Darcy and an on fire Bod play together,with stringer at 9 the ball will be so quick.I expect a treat from those 2 tbh,I also think Kearney will like this game,the scotland midfiled is suspect and I can see him running through them a few times.
    Ireland by 15.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,776 Noopti


    Some good changes, he needs to allow players who are in good form the chance to prove themselves. It can be seen as tough on Heaslip et al, but it could also be seen as Kidney resting some key players before the Welsh game whilst also facilitating bench players getting their chance.

    Kidney has added more muscle to the pack in the form of Leamy, whilst also adding extra speed out of the rucks with Stringer. This will subsequently allow the 12/13 channel to hit gaps/punch holes in the Scottish midfield and as a consequence should give more opportunities to our back 3.
    He has sacrificed some dynamism with Leamy, but Leamy/Ferris/Wallace are a very physical backrow unit that will be out to secure quick ball for Stringer.

    I also think that being able to bring on Heaslip, Wallace and Flannery when there are a lot of tired Scottish players will be fantastic.

    I think Kidney has got this perfect. He is a coach that believes in giving players chances and keeping the opposition guessing and he has done this with his team selection for Scotland.


    Edit: Oh, and giving bench players a near full 80 minutes will be vital coming into the Wales game. Will give our bench that added punch should the need arise.
    Edit 2: Also I would give Ireland the edge in 12 positions looking at the teams.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,470 ✭✭✭✭ stephen_n


    All in all I wouldn't have any problems with the changes DK has made as they don't weaken the team in any way. Am worried about Rory Bests line out throwing as he has been very poor with it when he has come on in this 6 nations and that is an area that has been providing good quick ball for the backline to work with up to now but he will steady the scrum and put pressure on their front row. Think funnily enough this game would have suited Paddy Wallace most of all and it's a pity he doesn't start this one and I am a Leinster fan so am delighted to see Darcy in but will expect him to be subed by the 60 minute mark. Not too sure about the need to rest players they have had a weeks break for the most part and are professional atheletes who require regular game play to keep their condition. Glad to see Stringer start though and hopefully ROG will be taking the ball up flat like he did against the french to give us more width on our attack.

    As for the Scots if we give them penalty's then Patterson will kick them and in that I would guess they will get about 9 points. They are capeable of scoring try's and I would expect them to score at least once.


    Scotland 16 - 30 Ireland


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,699 bamboozle


    stephen_n wrote: »
    All in all I wouldn't have any problems with the changes DK has made as they don't weaken the team in any way. Am worried about Rory Bests line out throwing as he has been very poor with it when he has come on in this 6 nations and that is an area that has been providing good quick ball for the backline to work with up to now but he will steady the scrum and put pressure on their front row. Think funnily enough this game would have suited Paddy Wallace most of all and it's a pity he doesn't start this one and I am a Leinster fan so am delighted to see Darcy in but will expect him to be subed by the 60 minute mark. Not too sure about the need to rest players they have had a weeks break for the most part and are professional atheletes who require regular game play to keep their condition. Glad to see Stringer start though and hopefully ROG will be taking the ball up flat like he did against the french to give us more width on our attack.

    As for the Scots if we give them penalty's then Patterson will kick them and in that I would guess they will get about 9 points. They are capeable of scoring try's and I would expect them to score at least once.


    Scotland 16 - 30 Ireland

    glad someone has picked up on Best's lineout throwing, he's been terrible in the 2 games he came on so far, i think some of it is down to poor calls being made to the tail, either way if Jackman was missing lineouts like this he'd be slated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,776 Noopti


    stephen_n wrote: »
    Scotland 16 - 30 Ireland

    Yeah, looks about right to me. I predict Ireland by 16.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,772 toomevara


    Noopti wrote: »
    Yeah, looks about right to me. I predict Ireland by 16.

    As someone with long and bitter experience of irish disaster at Murrayfield, I'll take any win...we'll do it..just, by a score....


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,963 ✭✭✭ Goose81


    bamboozle wrote: »
    glad someone has picked up on Best's lineout throwing, he's been terrible in the 2 games he came on so far, i think some of it is down to poor calls being made to the tail, either way if Jackman was missing lineouts like this he'd be slated.


    At least Best will actually do something on the pitch.

    Flannery may be a better thrower but Best is far superior in every other aspect.Kidney has obvously had him throwing losts this week,so id expect him to be fine.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 749 waster81


    Re Best : ONly concern is his line out throwing, it aint as good as flannery, and we need good possession from 1st phase.

    Other than that looks good selection


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