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Scotland v Ireland (pre/during/post thread)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭ Rattlehead_ie


    One thing you have to remember with O'Leary coming on is. Although I agree his performance was not great, he wasn't there as a replacement for Stringers type of play he was there to slow the game down, keep it in the forwards and just ware the scotts down.(which to be honest doesn not lend itself to be spectacular rugby to watch) But as I said even when he did pass it out to the back line / kicked his performance was poor.

    Big change that I saw today about the whole Irish squad is that Kidney is using his bench and its great to see. O'Leary on to close off the game and slow it down. Murphy on to although carry it forward like Kearney, Murphy has a bit more strenght to hold a ball up IMO (not that it ever counts ;) )

    It looked like Ireland had an ability to up the pace when they wanted to and to control the pace of the game. If we can do that with the Welsh I would feel confident with going to wales and having a 50/50 chance of winning.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,376 padser


    Big change that I saw today about the whole Irish squad is that Kidney is using his bench and its great to see. O'Leary on to close off the game and slow it down. Murphy on to although carry it forward like Kearney, Murphy has a bit more strenght to hold a ball up IMO (not that it ever counts ;) )


    I think that has been one of the biggest plus's since Kindney took over.

    For example people have different opinions about whether Best or Flannery should start - but its pretty certain that 90% of the time whichever one has sat on the bench for 60 mins is a better bet for the final 20 minutes - same with Leamy / Heaslip . Ferris etc.

    Having a bench we can use as a weapon - rather then to replace our injured players is a real mentality shift for us - and a great step forward IMO


  • Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭ Catmologen


    For me it was a toss up between ROG and Stringer for man of the match. Personally I would have given it to ROG, such a flawless comeback hasn't been seen since Elvis in 68'.
    I'm delighted for him after the all the stick he got last week. Funny that theres nobody praising him on here :D


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 21,193 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Eoin


    ROG took his points well, but I didn't notice him too much in open play.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭ Orizio


    eoin wrote: »
    ROG took his points well, but I didn't notice him too much in open play.

    Indeed, quite an improvement. ;)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,285 ✭✭✭✭ stephen_n


    Catmologen wrote: »
    For me it was a toss up between ROG and Stringer for man of the match. Personally I would have given it to ROG, such a flawless comeback hasn't been seen since Elvis in 68'.
    I'm delighted for him after the all the stick he got last week. Funny that theres nobody praising him on here :D

    I'm wondering which game you were watching that you would say that, yes his place kicking was back on form and the drop goal was good but ask yourself was he involved in the try? what did he do constructively as a ten, his kicking from hand was ineffective there was at least two occasions when he got the ball in hand and visibly didn't know what to do with it. He is allowing the players outside him to decide what is happening rather than taking decisions himself. The outhalf is the fulcrum for the whole team and should impose himself on the game something ROG has not done in a green jersey for a long long time. Man of the match?, he wouldn't be in my top ten Irish players let alone the best!


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,533 ✭✭✭✭ phog


    eoin wrote: »
    ROG took his points well, but I didn't notice him too much in open play.

    He kicked 10 times, passed 34, ran twice and tackled 9 times and you didn't notice him, were you watching it on the radio?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 21,193 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Eoin


    phog wrote: »
    He kicked 10 times, passed 34, ran twice and tackled 9 times and you didn't notice him, were you watching it on the radio?

    No, I just didn't think it was a man of the match performance, if that's not considered blasphemy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,533 ✭✭✭✭ phog


    eoin wrote: »
    ROG took his points well, but I didn't notice him too much in open play.
    eoin wrote: »
    No, I just didn't think it was a man of the match performance, if that's not considered blasphemy.

    TBH, there was no MOTM display in Murryfield yesterday but there's a big gap
    between not noticing a player and a player not being MOTM.


  • Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭ Catmologen


    phog wrote: »
    He kicked 10 times, passed 34, ran twice and tackled 9 times and you didn't notice him, were you watching it on the radio?

    Impressive stats indeed. Credit where credits due, he gets enough of a panning on here when he has what's deemed to be a bad game.Well done on reaching the points milestone as well ROG.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 thehighground


    eoin wrote: »
    No, I just didn't think it was a man of the match performance, if that's not considered blasphemy.

    Reading your post one would get the impression that you were nominating him for 'Worst Player of the Match' though. ;)

    Fair play to ROG for coming back as he did from the England game and congratulations on the new record.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,249 Stev_o


    Reading your post one would get the impression that you were nominating him for 'Worst Player of the Match' though. ;)

    Fair play to ROG for coming back as he did from the England game and congratulations on the new record.

    Mate he's only responding to some who said that he felt it was between ROG and Stringer for man of the match.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 thehighground


    Stev_o wrote: »
    Mate he's only responding to some who said that he felt it was between ROG and Stringer for man of the match.

    Sorry Eoin - post I was replying to was from stephen_n.


  • Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭ Catmologen


    stephen_n wrote: »
    Man of the match?, he wouldn't be in my top ten Irish players let alone the best!

    That's a completely ridiculous point of view and it makes little sense, you cant be basing that on his performance on the field of play yesterday.


    .5 difference between ROG and Stringer, thats about right for me.



    Player Ratings
    Ratings by Brian Jaffray



    Ireland


    Rob kearney 6


    Looked less secure than in previous outings although he was always looking to run the ball. Few wild kicks took some gloss off his performance.


    tOMMY BOWE 6


    Apart from one poorly executed up-and-under, never got involved in the general play. Not his fault as you can't do much if you don't get ball.


    bRIAN O'DRISCOLL 7.5


    Another towering performance. Brilliant tackle on Evans prevented a certain try just before the break and probably saved the Grand Slam dream.


    Gordon d'arcy6


    Super tackle as Paterson was preparing to pounce but struggled to make much of an impact. Still a better option than Paddy Wallace.


    LUKE FITZGERALD 7.5


    Ever alert and always willing to get involved. Ran his heart out for the cause. This guy is the genuine article and a certainty for the Lions.


    RONAN O'GARA 7.5


    Croke Park nightmare confined to history books. Super tackle on Danielli prevented an early try. Looks far more comfortable with his soul mate alongside him.


    Peter Stringer 8


    So the little general is past it then! Write this man off at your peril. Brilliant break put the try for Heaslip on a plate. Now odds-on to start in Cardiff


    Marcus horan 6.5


    Another workmanlike display from the Munster man. Held his own in the tight against what is a formidable Scottish front row.


    Rory Best 7


    One of his better games. Had point to prove and duly obliged. Will provide a selection headache for Kidney ahead of Cardiff.


    john hayes 6


    Struggled in the scrums according to referee Jonathan Kaplin... but who cares! Ninety three caps with more to come. Award this man the 'Freedom of Bruff'!


    donncha o'callaghan 6.5


    As ever, gave it his all. Destined to be always over-shadowed as long as O'Connell is his partner in the second row.


    paul o'connell 7


    Heart of a Lion and led by example throughout with his carries. Took game by scruff of the neck after getting earful from Kidney at half-time.


    stephen ferris 7.5


    Covered every blade of grass in Murrayfield. A big-hitter and simply superb in contact. A true physical presence on the field.


    david wallace 6


    Fumble early on set the tone for his performance. Despite his head bandage catching the eye this was not one of Wally's better days in the green jersey.


    Denis Leamy 6.5


    Although only on the pitch for 33 minutes did more than enough to justify his selection over Heaslip. Injury will make Kidney's choice much easier for Cardiff.


    subs


    Jamie Heaslip Made the most of Leamy's misfortune. Won the lineout that led to his own try. Forget the showboating, Jamie. 6.5


    Jerry Flannery Over-threw the ball with his first lineout. Anxious few days ahead of him. 6


    TomÁs O'Leary Failed to make an impression. Will be watching from the stands next Saturday night. 6


    Geordan Murphy Not on long enough to be rated.




    http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/mar/15/player-ratings/


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,588 sock puppet


    Catmologen wrote: »

    RONAN O'GARA 7.5


    Croke Park nightmare confined to history books. Super tackle on Danielli prevented an early try. Looks far more comfortable with his soul mate alongside him.


    http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/mar/15/player-ratings/

    I'm pretty sure it was actually Fitzgerald made that tackle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 670 Stealdo


    I'm pretty sure it was actually Fitzgerald made that tackle.

    You'd wonder whether these guys that do these ratings have actually watched the game at all. For example crediting O'Driscoll for the try saving tackle at the end of the first half, and completely ignoring the fact that it was Tommy Bowe who actually saved the try, O'Driscoll's was a simple track back and tackle, if anything you could criticise him for not making more effort initially when the kick went over his head. (Not crapping on BOD here, he had a good game and had he not been there Bowe wouldn't have got the result he deserved)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,960 ✭✭✭ Goose81


    He kicked his points but other than that nothing special.No where near mom performance.

    I think ferris doesnt get enough praise,he is consistently class.


    On a side note the guy who wrote the player ratings said Fitzgerald is a certainty for the Lions lol.He may travel but he is most definitely not a certainty.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,666 ✭✭✭ corny


    Stealdo wrote: »
    You'd wonder whether these guys that do these ratings have actually watched the game at all. For example crediting O'Driscoll for the try saving tackle at the end of the first half, and completely ignoring the fact that it was Tommy Bowe who actually saved the try, O'Driscoll's was a simple track back and tackle, if anything you could criticise him for not making more effort initially when the kick went over his head. (Not crapping on BOD here, he had a good game and had he not been there Bowe wouldn't have got the result he deserved)

    He said of Leamy too "Although only on the pitch for 33 minutes did more than enough to justify his selection over Heaslip." LOL 33 mins and he did nothing eyecatching. Got turned over in midfield thats it. Heaslip lead from the front against France and put in huge workrate against Italy and England. Absolute nonsense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,285 ✭✭✭✭ stephen_n


    Sorry Eoin - post I was replying to was from stephen_n.
    Well since it was responding to my comment no I wouldn't but as I said he wouldn't have been in my top ten players
    Catmologen wrote: »
    That's a completely ridiculous point of view and it makes little sense, you cant be basing that on his performance on the field of play yesterday.


    Oh right my point of view is ridiculous and yet yours is based on a player rating from the tribune lmfao. My friend your argument is groundless. I made points reviewing O'Gara's game about his inability to move our much vaunted backline and his total inability to create space even with quick go forward ball from stringer he looked lost with the ball in hand add to this the fact that his kicking from hand is aimless and ineffective yet you think he is man of the match, why because he kicked a drop goal a conversion and 4 penalties so by your logic Patterson was man of the match for Scotland????Don't know if you ever played rugby or know what an outhalf is SUPPOSED to do but O'Gara isn't doing it and place kicking isn't enough to qualify him, he is supposed to direct the backline and control the game and how many try's have we scored by him doing this in the 6N???


  • Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭ Catmologen


    To say that he wasn't in the top ten players on the pitch is fairly ridiculous alright...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,285 ✭✭✭✭ stephen_n


    Catmologen wrote: »
    Ratings by Brian Jaffray


    RONAN O'GARA 7.5


    Croke Park nightmare confined to history books. Super tackle on Danielli prevented an early try. Looks far more comfortable with his soul mate alongside him.



    paul o'connell 7


    Heart of a Lion and led by example throughout with his carries. Took game by scruff of the neck after getting earful from Kidney at half-time.
    Yes Brian is a reliable source of player reviews alright must have been watching the game from under the bar to rate O'connells performance so low


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,285 ✭✭✭✭ stephen_n


    Catmologen wrote: »
    To say that he wasn't in the top ten players on the pitch is fairly ridiculous alright...

    Right but you refuse again to say what aspect of his game deserved a better rating? and also you choose to ignore the valid points I have put forward but your right my point is ridiculous alright lol


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,283 ✭✭✭ hussey


    If Ireland lose to Wales by less than 12pts do they win the tournament?
    or is it based on Head to Head matches?


  • Site Banned Posts: 5,677 jayteecork


    hussey wrote: »
    If Ireland lose to Wales by less than 12pts do they win the tournament?
    or is it based on Head to Head matches?

    I think Wales have to beat Ireland by 26 points.

    It's not head to head in the 6 nations as far as I know.

    This is excellent, we haven't won the 5/6 nations since 1985!


  • Site Banned Posts: 5,677 jayteecork


    Goose81 wrote: »
    He kicked his points but other than that nothing special.No where near mom performance.

    I think ferris doesnt get enough praise,he is consistently class.


    On a side note the guy who wrote the player ratings said Fitzgerald is a certainty for the Lions lol.He may travel but he is most definitely not a certainty.

    Sure they take 45 players now, and seeing as 4 the first teams of the 4 eligible nations consist of 60 players you could say he's a good shout.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,960 ✭✭✭ Goose81


    jayteecork wrote: »
    Sure they take 45 players now, and seeing as 4 the first teams of the 4 eligible nations consist of 60 players you could say he's a good shout.


    Personally I would start him on the wing in the first team but when someone says to me a player is a cert for the Lions,it means they will start.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,881 Diamondmaker


    jayteecork wrote: »
    I think Wales have to beat Ireland by 26 points.

    It's not head to head in the 6 nations as far as I know.

    This is excellent, we haven't won the 5/6 nations since 1985!

    AHHHhh the beauty of permutations, its not head to head.

    Wales need to win by 13 ( very doable ).
    As a result of winning by 13 their points difference increases by 13.
    Ours naturally, as having lost by 13, decreases by 13,

    Hence the net positve points difference of 26 !!

    Game set and Match and 3 Crown Wales and nothing for ireland !
    Take Wales 13 Nil for example:

    FOR - AGST = Dif
    85 + 13 - ( 64 + 0 ) = 34 W
    104 + 0 - ( 58 +13 ) = 33 Irl

    1 Ireland 4 4 0 0 104 58 46 10 8
    2 Wales 4 3 0 1 85 64 21 8 6


    Im sure it does not default to points scored in 1st instance, from cruel memory of the Fr / Scot Irl / It fixtures.

    The only upside of this is as the GS is up for grabs and not just a championship, we will go in playing to win and not playing to limit a score to 13.

    Gonna be a major game !!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭ Moncti48


    jayteecork wrote: »
    Sure they take 45 players now, and seeing as 4 the first teams of the 4 eligible nations consist of 60 players you could say he's a good shout.


    Apperntly this year he has said that he wont be taking a 45 man squad, instead he will be taking a 35 or 36 man squad, maybe 1 or 2 less. He doesnt want to rotate the teams to much and will be using the warm-up matches as actual warm up and not matches just for the fun of it


  • Registered Users Posts: 670 Stealdo


    Moncti48 wrote: »
    Apperntly this year he has said that he wont be taking a 45 man squad, instead he will be taking a 35 or 36 man squad, maybe 1 or 2 less. He doesnt want to rotate the teams to much and will be using the warm-up matches as actual warm up and not matches just for the fun of it

    The massive squad for the 2005 lions was a one off. It'll probably never happen again. All down to Clive Woodward not wanting his players to have to mix with the pee-ons in the midweek team. He even had two seperate coaching set ups.


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