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Scotland v Ireland (pre/during/post thread)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,949 ✭✭✭ twinytwo


    sm.org wrote: »
    I always wonder why people say Best is the better scrumager, how is it rated? I know he's bigger but I cant say I've ever noticed a marked improvement in the Irish scrum when he's in it.

    Flannery seems to have found his form again and is a shoe in for the Lions.

    Plus people forget if the lions turns into a slug fest which it could who better than the flans to have your back


  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭ Sparky14


    twinytwo wrote: »
    Plus people forget if the lions turns into a slug fest which it could who better than the flans to have your back

    Prefer O'Gara, no one more adept at absorbing punchs to the face.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,746 taidghbaby


    +1

    Plus Andy Powell
    i'm not a huge fan of powell, and i think he would be a mistake for the lions - his head down style of running would play right into the hands of the massive boks back row!

    anyway on the match in hand i wonder if the reason darcy is in, is because stringer is playing.....i.e. kidney doesnt want a midfield defence of stringer/o'gara/wallace??

    i'll be missing this one, but i have a feeling this mightn't be one for the southern hemisphere purists - a lot of trench warfare (perhaps the reason for leamy)

    ireland to win a tense edgey battle, with 4 yellow cards!


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,469 ✭✭✭✭ stephen_n


    Brewster wrote: »

    Statistical when Best has been at hooker, the Irish lineout has functioned better in recent seasons.

    My friend statistics can prove your aunty is your uncle the simple fact in the 3 games this year our lineout has been functioning superbly up till Bests introduction when it has fallen apart in all 3 games that points to a problem that statistics won't cure. Hopefully he will get it right on Saturday as it was an area of his game that was quite strong when he first came into the irish set-up but maybe has lost out as he has concentrated on other areas of his game!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,963 ✭✭✭ Goose81


    stephen_n wrote: »
    My friend statistics can prove your aunty is your uncle the simple fact in the 3 games this year our lineout has been functioning superbly up till Bests introduction when it has fallen apart in all 3 games that points to a problem that statistics won't cure. Hopefully he will get it right on Saturday as it was an area of his game that was quite strong when he first came into the irish set-up but maybe has lost out as he has concentrated on other areas of his game!
    My friend statistically Flannery has been utter ****e except at lineout time this 6 nations.

    He may still carry but he is a shadow of his former self and Best should have started every game this 6 nations.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 800 puntosporting


    Goose81 wrote: »
    My friend statistically Flannery has been utter ****e except at lineout time this 6 nations.

    He may still carry but he is a shadow of his former self and Best should have started every game this 6 nations.

    Show the statistics that say he was ****?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭ ScholesyIsGod


    Goose81 wrote: »
    My friend statistically Flannery has been utter ****e except at lineout time this 6 nations.

    He may still carry but he is a shadow of his former self and Best should have started every game this 6 nations.

    What an odd thing to say, granted he isnt playing as well as he did in 2006 but he's not a shadow of his former self, he's a better lineout thrower then Best and he is still much better then him around the field i have never seen anything to suggest that Best is a great ball carrier all of a sudden. He got picked to scrummage, the one area he is slightly better then Flannery. Whereas Flannery is a far superior thrower then Best and that has been shown in recent games.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭ ScholesyIsGod


    Good to see Leamy in the side, definitely horses for courses he was excellent against the Dragons which probably got him the nod, Strings deserves his spot as well being playing very well recently hopefully he doesnt kick away as much ball as O'Leary has been doing and gets it out wide more often. D'Arcy was always going to come back in sooner or later it was just a matter of when and the answer to that is Saturday. Best is in for his scrummaging.

    The man i expect a big performance out of is Kearney, its all well and good people saying he's such a great counter attacker but he hasn't done anywhere near enough so far in the championship he's been way too quick to just boot everything into the air when he gets ball in hand and has a chance to run it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,055 ✭✭✭✭ Podge_irl


    Good to see Leamy in the side, definitely horses for courses he was excellent against the Dragons which probably got him the nod, Strings deserves his spot as well being playing very well recently hopefully he doesnt kick away as much ball as O'Leary has been doing and gets it out wide more often. D'Arcy was always going to come back in sooner or later it was just a matter of when and the answer to that is Saturday. Best is in for his scrummaging.

    The man i expect a big performance out of is Kearney, its all well and good people saying he's such a great counter attacker but he hasn't done anywhere near enough so far in the championship he's been way too quick to just boot everything into the air when he gets ball in hand and has a chance to run it.

    I'm pretty sure TOL was under orders to kick so much possession away (though the quality of the kicking is certainly an issue). As regards Kearney, I think he has been mixing it up quite well. He's exceptionally good under the high ball so up and unders are a very viable tactic. Similarly, he has a larger boot then most oppo fullbacks so unfortunately given the emphasis on kicking these days it makes sense to use him in that way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭ chupacabra


    The man i expect a big performance out of is Kearney, its all well and good people saying he's such a great counter attacker but he hasn't done anywhere near enough so far in the championship he's been way too quick to just boot everything into the air when he gets ball in hand and has a chance to run it.

    Id rather Kearney kick it back into the opposition's 22 than run into a wall of defenders with little support, the way the tounament has been going there is simply so little room to play the ball in hand, Italy smothered us as did England whereas france's defense wasnt a constant rush so we had the room to create the space and get the ball out wide and kearney made a few telling half breaks the highlight of which led to Heaslips try.

    I expect he will put in a big performance this weekend, but if he kept up his current form then i wouldnt complain, the man is an absolute picture of perfection under the highball and his tactical kicking is spot on most of the time too.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭ ScholesyIsGod


    Ya he's a full back he should be good under the high ball so was Girvan Dempsey, im not saying he's not playing well but he has to start running the ball back more often, i know he has no other option but to kick at times but his strength is supposed to be his counter attacking and he hasnt shown much of that so far he has been a bit too conservative. And yes the defences are like brick walls but a game breaker should be able to create and opening and get through them from time to time.

    One of the few times he did make a little half break against France he put Bowe through and it ended up with Heaslips try, we need to see more of that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 62 ✭✭✭ Darlie


    Delighted to see the changes made, to prove that the squad is interchangeable if nothing else. Rugby is a sport that is slower than most to realise that the best 15 for one fixture is not always the best 15. There is a definite game plan being prepared for Scotland, and what better way to stop minds wandering to Cardiff than to shake things up a bit and give a few lads their head. We're definitely aiming to quicken the ball at the breakdown, hence Leamy for Heaslip, Best for Flannery (as desapite his fans, Jerry isn't going at 100% in the losse for some reason). Added to that the best and quickest pass in the 6N and you have a completely different approach than France or England matches. Bringing D'arcy in also gives us a different midfield weapon, although probably reducing the influence of BOD somewhat (he doesn't play as an orthodox 13 when playing with Darcy, whereas he does playing with Wallace).
    All in all good to see the changes made, doesn't for one moment though indicate selection strategy for Wales.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,996 ✭✭✭ Brewster


    What an odd thing to say, granted he isnt playing as well as he did in 2006 but he's not a shadow of his former self, he's a better lineout thrower then Best and he is still much better then him around the field i have never seen anything to suggest that Best is a great ball carrier all of a sudden. He got picked to scrummage, the one area he is slightly better then Flannery. Whereas Flannery is a far superior thrower then Best and that has been shown in recent games.

    Scholesy, I think you should stick to the football. What planet are you on? Up till this 6 Nations season, Flannery couldnt hit a barn door consistently and was no where near as consistent as Rory Best. The Irish lineout always was stronger when Best was in the team. All of a sudden, Best has missed a few throws, for a number of reasons, after coming on as a sub and Flannery is a world beater at this aspect of the game?? Its not true. Flannery has NEVER thrown the ball as well as he has over the past few weeks, which has been great for Ireland. This is a fact, ask any decent Munster fan. To equate this upsurge in accuracy as a reason to cite that he is better than Best is pub talk?

    You cant compare players over three games when it comes to discussing who executes an aspect of the game better. Must be done over seasons. Rory Best has had many more good days in a green jersey with darts than he has had bad days.


  • Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭ Micky Dolenz


    Happy that Stringer is getting a shot, has been in flying form of late.

    Best in, no argument there.

    D'arcy was only a matter of time.

    Think Heaslip is contender for player of the tournament, up there anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,699 bamboozle


    methinks we need a poll on who we'd chose at hooker.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 62 ✭✭✭ Darlie


    bamboozle wrote: »
    methinks we need a poll on who we'd chose at hooker.....

    What would it really achieve though:)
    Personally speaking, I'd take either. And be glad to have a replacement as capable as we do. When both are in their prime condition of fitness and performance, I'd probably side with Flannery. But couldn't complain if Best got the nod. One of those welcome headaches for a coach to have.


  • Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭ Timothy Bryce


    Darlie wrote: »
    What would it really achieve though:)
    Personally speaking, I'd take either. And be glad to have a replacement as capable as we do. When both are in their prime condition of fitness and performance, I'd probably side with Flannery. But couldn't complain if Best got the nod. One of those welcome headaches for a coach to have.

    Agreed. We have an abundance of competition at a lot of key positions (not at OH sadly) which makes for positive selection headaches...

    On that note, is there much of a case to give Bob Casey a shout at lock? DOC hasn't been at his best lately and he can be a bit of a liability on the pitch....


  • Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭ NU8


    On that note, is there much of a case to give Bob Casey a shout at lock? DOC hasn't been at his best lately and he can be a bit of a liability on the pitch....

    I agree with you about DOC but according to the Independent Casey is out for the rest of the season. Leaving MOD and Mal as the only back up, neither of which are good enough to challenge for a starting position.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 62 ✭✭✭ Darlie


    NU8 wrote: »
    I agree with you about DOC but according to the Independent Casey is out for the rest of the season. Leaving MOD and Mal as the only back up, neither of which are good enough to challenge for a starting position.

    But who would both be justifiably ahead of Casey in the queue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭ NU8


    Personally I agree with the current starting seconds rows but I think O'Kelly should be on the bench ahead of MOD. Casey, if he wasn't injured, would probably be 5th choice anyway as Kidney seems to want someone with experience on the bench.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭✭✭ chapelizod1


    Don't agree with you on DOC, I think his work rate is exceptional and he doesn't give away penalties too often. With the ELVs big 2nd rows like Casey are not as useful as they used to be.
    Agreed. We have an abundance of competition at a lot of key positions (not at OH sadly) which makes for positive selection headaches...

    On that note, is there much of a case to give Bob Casey a shout at lock? DOC hasn't been at his best lately and he can be a bit of a liability on the pitch....


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,963 ✭✭✭ Goose81


    When Cullen comes back it will be himself and Doc going for the sport beside Poc,although I would expect Cullen on the bench as the others are a pairing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 800 puntosporting


    Im sorry but Casey is not good enough in my opinion!
    Doc is having a decent 6 nations and i dont see any change necessary!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,307 ✭✭✭ cruiserweight


    For anybody that is coming over early and is interested in seeing some free rugby, I received the following details about the U20, womens and club games on Friday from the SRU
    While the Scotland team completes their final pre-match preparations for the game on Saturday, the nation's best young rugby players will also be in action. Having already played home fixtures against Wales & Italy, now's your chance to see them take on Ireland.

    Hot on the heels of home victories against Wales and Italy under 20, Scotland under 20 are in action at McDiarmid Park, Perth against Ireland U20. This young team has shown some real character so far this season and certainly contains talent to watch for the future.

    Meanwhile at Meggetland in Edinburgh, Scotland Women take on Ireland Women - and they'll be keen to see out another victory after defeating Italy Women, two weeks ago on the same turf.

    Finally, the best club rugby players from Scottish clubs have been selected to take on their Irish counterparts in the Club International match at Myreside. This is your only chance to see the best club rugby talent join forces for the nation on home soil - so don't miss it.

    All matches kick off at 7.30pm on Friday 13 March and with free entry at all venues, there's no excuse for not being able to support your country this weekend. No tickets or vouchers required - simply turn up and give our teams the best home backing.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,136 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Zzippy


    Goose81 wrote: »
    When Cullen comes back it will be himself and Doc going for the sport beside Poc,although I would expect Cullen on the bench as the others are a pairing.

    Cullen is nowhere near good enough to play for Ireland, and DOC is a far superior player. And no, I'm not a Munster fan, that's my honest opinion. Plus his discipline is poorer than DOCs


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 shaneomurf


    Hey,

    I'm asking a favour of anyone travelling to the Ireland v Scotland game this weekend. Will you please keep an eye out for a group of us who will be collecting for the Stuart Mangan Trust on Princes St and The Royal Mile. We will try to do a round of the pubs too so Please support us!!

    Check out http://www.stuartmangan.org

    Thanks in advance,

    Shane


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,963 ✭✭✭ Goose81


    Zzippy wrote: »
    Cullen is nowhere near good enough to play for Ireland, and DOC is a far superior player. And no, I'm not a Munster fan, that's my honest opinion. Plus his discipline is poorer than DOCs


    He is easily the best we can put on the bench,also he has been desperately unfortunate with injuries since returing to Leinster,when Ireland are playing.

    I dont rate Doc,so I disagree with your other point aswell.


  • Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭ Micky Dolenz


    Goose81 wrote: »

    I dont rate Doc,so I disagree with your other point aswell.

    jeez Goose, do you use the term "I don't rate" loosely or what?

    You don't rate a player that has won a couple of European cups and has been an Internatonal player for years, not to mention his 6 or 7 lions caps.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭ sm.org


    Goose81 wrote: »
    He is easily the best we can put on the bench,also he has been desperately unfortunate with injuries since returing to Leinster,when Ireland are playing.

    I dont rate Doc,so I disagree with your other point aswell.

    Granted he has been unlucky with injuries but he's not international level by any stretch of the imagination. It doesn't matter what your opinion of DOC is , 40 odd caps , two Lions tests another Lions tour this summer with a good shout of more test caps (as a sub) would suggest that people with slightly more rugby knowledge would rate him.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,963 ✭✭✭ Goose81


    jeez Goose, do you use the term "I don't rate" loosely or what?

    You don't rate a player that has won a couple of European cups and has been an Internatonal player for years, not to mention his 6 or 7 lions caps.


    I just think he is living off Pocs reputation and for me anyway he is not as good as people think.
    I would have liked to see either Casey or cullen get a shot alongside Poc at some stage over the last few years.


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