Scotland v Ireland (pre/during/post thread)

juvenal

Scotland v Ireland
Saturday 14 March 2009, 5.00pm (Irish)
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
Live on RTÉ2, RTÉ.ie, RTÉ Radio 1; BBC1, BBC Radio 5 Live

Scotland|No.|Ireland
Chris Patterson|15|Rob Kearney
Simon Danielli|14|Tommy Bowe
Max Evans|13|Brian O'Driscoll
Graeme Morrison|12|Gordon D'arcy
Thom Evans|11|Luke Fitzgerald
Phil Godman|10|Ronan O'Gara
Mike Blair|9|Peter Stringer
Alasdair Dickinson|1|Marcus Horan
Ross Ford|2|Rory Best
Euan Murray|3|John Hayes
TBC|4|Donncha O'Callaghan
TBC|5|Paul O'Connell
Alasdair Strokosch|6|Stephen Ferris
John Barclay|7|David Wallace
Simon Taylor|8|Denis Leamy

Scotland replacements: Dougie Hall, Moray Low, AN Other lock, Scott Gray, Chris Cusiter, AN Other, Hugo Southwell.

Ireland replacements: Jerry Flannery, Tom Court, Mick O’Driscoll, Jamie Heaslip, Tomás O'Leary, Paddy Wallace, Geordan Murphy.

Referee: Jonathan Kaplan (South Africa)
Touch judges: Wayne Barnes (England), Carlo Damasco (Italy)
TMO: Hugh Watkins (Wales)

If there was a website about this fixture, and it’s importance in the greater scheme of the 2009 Six Nations championship, it would be www.bananaskin.com.

The pitfalls of playing a somewhat resurgent Scottish team in their own backyard are well documented, and certainly this is probably the one place where an upset is most conceivable. After scraping though, albeit deservedly, against a tough English side who did themselves no favours in the sinbin and were the lucky beneficiaries of a Ronan O’Gara off-day, Ireland travel to Edinburgh with the sort of quiet confidence that hasn’t been in the camp in several years.

An opening win against a strong French side (who subsequently see-sawed themselves though the following two matches), followed by a cursory dismissal of Italy, set the stage for a massive clash against the old enemy. England were on somewhat of a resurgence after an unconvincing opening day performance was followed up by a big improvement in Cardiff, and when Ireland sent them back to Blighty and improving to 3-for-3, there were nervous whispers of a first G**** S*** since 1948.

Gordon Darcy is pushing hard for selection in the starting XV after a good performance for Leinster in Swansea at the weekend, and equally Rory Best is no more than a shade outside the starting hooker role, with consistent performances for Ulster. While Paddy Wallace and Jerry Flannery have performed very well, it’s a matter of taste at this stage who will get the nod. Knee-jerk reaction calling for O’Gara’s head after an admittedly poor performance against England is unwarranted, and I fully expect him to return to his usual high standard with a big performance on Saturday.

Kidney is renowned for not giving away an inch to the press, and as is to be expected no-one really knows what the team announcement tomorrow will say. Some schools of thought point to the Welsh model of wholesale changes and rest players, although this is highly unlikely given Kidney’s track-record, while others question the sanity of changing a winning team. At most, there may be a couple of changes, but I’d be surprised to see any changes in personnel across the 22, save perhaps for someone on the bench. The impact of the bench, especially Stringer and D’arcy is well documented at this stage, and could provide vital impetus should Ireland need to break the game open at some stage of the afternoon.

The Scots are coming off a somewhat comfortable win against Italy, and are finding a decent few players in the back line in Max and Thom Evans. The trusty boot of Chris Patterson is always worth a few points, and the Irish pack with have to be very disciplined and not give away too many kickable penalties, as they will be punished on the scoreboard. Expect to see a fair bit of running rugby, and depending on the weather forecast, we hope not to see a brand of foot-tennis that at times tarnished the match in Croke Park two weeks ago. The Irish backline will be relying on the pack and the scrumhalf to secure and supply quality, go forward ball to make inroads into the Scottish defence, and the second consecutive matchup between the Irish team and a former defensive coach should be interesting.

Despite the Scots improvements since their first outing against Wales, Ireland should have more than enough guile and ability to secure a fourth win in a row and move to Cardiff with the 100% record intact. It won’t be easy, but we’ll be looking to senior players to call on experience and leadership skills as there will be moments when it will be difficult. Ronan O’Gara will also be expected to improve dramatically, and I fully expect him to. Don’t expect a walk in the park, but Ireland have enough in all areas of the game, including the management, to see off the Scots. There’s too much experience in the dressing room to be complacent, and I see Ireland winning by 10-15.

Scotland 13 Ireland 27?

Spore

would really love to see some fresh legs in the starting 15, don't know if that'll happen. Mick O Driscoll deserves a berth, as does Darcy deserve to start. If Kidney keeps the same 15 again and then again for Wales we'll be slaughtered. Think Gatland had the right idea to make wholesale changes against Italy, save his men, stir it up a bit for the Ireland game when they could potentially give us a whalloping.

If it's the same 15 I would give us a win... just.

Ire 22*
Scotland 20




*last minute BOD drop goal FTW!

chupacabra

Im really hoping for an expansive game this weekend, Alan Gaffney said it himself today to expect "lots of running rugby" against the scots. Our defense will be too much for them i think, Danielli and the Evans brothers are main danger men, and if Hines and Hamilton come back into the squad as predicted scotland will have their best possible team and will be full of confidence infront of their home crowd. Im gonna say 10 - 23 to ireland.

Also your threads are very well written, keep up the good work. :cool:

puntosporting

I think its time to drop paddy wallace to the bench in bring back in Gordon Darcy taught he played well the weekend!
I expect Heaslip to up his game for this one he was some what annonomous(spell) against the english!
Would not tinker too much with a winning side to be honest need a bit of continuity!

fifth

I would now like to see Darce on for wallace against the scots!

Let's see a strong game from kearney and as a prev poster mentioned Heaslip as well. ROG will be back on form after being shaken up by an off day.


Ireland by 10-15 points.

juvenal

Spore wrote: »

would really love to see some fresh legs in the starting 15, don't know if that'll happen. Mick O Driscoll deserves a berth, as does Darcy deserve to start. If Kidney keeps the same 15 again and then again for Wales we'll be slaughtered. Think Gatland had the right idea to make wholesale changes against Italy, save his men, stir it up a bit for the Ireland game when they could potentially give us a whalloping.

If it's the same 15 I would give us a win... just.

Ire 22*
Scotland 20




*last minute BOD drop goal FTW!

I personally wouldn't advocate wholesale changes, two at the most and even then it would be at inside centre and scrumhalf. While I've a lot of time for MOD and rate him in a provincial/club sense, I think he falls short of being a first-rate international test lock. With a fully-fit Munster panel, he wouldn't be in the starting XV, so I think it's a stretch to call for his inclusion in the national side in what is a crucial match.

IMO the only focus right now should be the Six Nations Championship. Building for the future can wait until the summer and AI's; between the Churchill Cup, the summer tour and the Lions in South Africa, there are plenty of high quality matches on the horizon that will enable the established players to tour along with the up-and-coming. There will be so many matches this summer that there'd almost be enough space for a few lads here to being their gear and tog out for a game!:P

I can see MOD and others of his ilk being the leading members of the North American tour, with the young pretenders coming to the fore and a further chance in the Churchill Cup to nurture younger talent. I think right now the best XV should be starting, with a few players unlucky to miss out, but the focus should be on the here and now, rather than the there and then.

Colm_OReilly

I'm wondering if the Welsh wholesale changes will be their undoing? We have a points difference advantage of 23 over Wales atm, and let's say we put 10 over the Scots (and the record would seem to indicate this is exactly what we'll do) Wales need to beat Italy by 30 odd to really give themselves a chance in Cardiff.

While it would be nice for Wales to slip in Rome I don't think it's gonna happen, but assuming that France, Ireland and Wales win at the weekend, Wales might regret resting their big guns this weekend.

My prediction for this weekend, Ireland by 10-15. First half will be tough, but Ireland will pull away, showing glimpses of the class we displayed against France. Probably another try by BoD, with RoG finding his kicking boots again and PoC putting the fear of God into them.

zAbbo

The only possible changes are at 2,9 & 12 and even then those are very marginal calls.

Noopti

Waiting for the teams before making any score predictions, but Ireland should beat Scotland. It will be tight, and a physical battle but if Ireland don't win this it will be down to their own failures rather than Scotland being better.

Aidric

Enough about this resurgant Scotland rubbish. This was being spouted at the outset of the six nations as well and they haven't come anywhere near delivering. This is an Ireland side on an upward curve with a sound management team in situ. I'm hoping they'll click like they did in the French game and put the Scots to the sword. Unfortunately, Scotland like Italy & England will look to a flat defence to stifle the Irish and ruin the game as a spectacle. That said I'm hoping and expecting for a 12-15 point winning margin.

anonymous_joe

Aidric wrote: »

Enough about this resurgant Scotland rubbish. This was being spouted at the outset of the six nations as well and they haven't come anywhere near delivering. This is an Ireland side on an upward curve with a sound management team in situ. I'm hoping they'll click like they did in the French game and put the Scots to the sword. Unfortunately, Scotland like Italy & England will look to a flat defence to stifle the Irish and ruin the game as a spectacle. That said I'm hoping and expecting for a 12-15 point winning margin.

Ah in fairness to them, this is the best Scotland team in a good few years. That doesn't say much about 'em, but they really are improving. They just have a massive distance to go.

Auvers

Aidric wrote: »

Scotland like Italy & England will look to a flat defence to stifle the Irish and ruin the game as a spectacle.

well lets hope O'Gara has his kicking boots on this weekend, If so Ireland should win comfortably by 15-20 points

toomevara

Paterson to start for Scotland, that says it all...going to be a tough grinding game...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/scottish/7934396.stm

anonymous_joe

Godman starting too though I thought?

Noopti

Aidric wrote: »

Unfortunately, Scotland like Italy & England will look to a flat defence to stifle the Irish and ruin the game as a spectacle.

Damn them anyway for choosing a defensive pattern that could prevent us playing!? What are thinking! They should be giving the fans an entertaining game, even if it does mean allowing us to run riot...... :rolleyes:

If teams choose a certain defensive method than the onus is on the attacking team to overcome that.

Noopti

This from MunsterFans:
And Here: http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/rugby/eyaucwkfeykf/

Gordon D’Arcy, Peter Stringer, Rory Best and Denis Leamy have all been elevated to the starting XV after several appearances from the replacements bench during the first three games of the Championship and strong performances in the Magners League for their provinces.

D’Arcy starts his first game for Ireland in over a year after being named in the centre in place of Paddy Wallace, who moves to the replacements. Scrumhalf Peter Stringer takes up the No.9 jersey after swapping places with Tomas O’Leary who started the games against France, Italy and England.

The other two changes to the Ireland side are in the pack. In the front row, Rory Best is named at hooker with Jerry Flannery taking Best’s position among the replacements. Denis Leamy, who came on in place of Jamie Heaslip during the England game, is picked to start the game at No.8 with Heaslip backing up from the bench.

The game will also be landmark for Ireland tight head prop John Hayes who will become the most capped Irish player of all time with 93 caps to his name, overhauling fellow Ireland squad member Malcolm O’Kelly’s previous record.

IRELAND TEAM & REPLACEMENTS (v Scotland, 2009 RBS 6 Nations Championship, Murrayfield, Saturday, March 14, kick-off 5.30pm):

15 - Robert Kearney (UCD - Leinster)

14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)

13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD - Leinster) Captain

12 - Gordon D’Arcy (Lansdowne - Leinster)

11 - Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College - Leinster)

10 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution - Munster)

9 - Peter Stringer (Shannon - Munster)

1 - Marcus Horan (Shannon - Munster)

2 - Rory Best (Banbridge - Ulster)

3 - John Hayes (Bruff- Munster)

4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution - Munster)

5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster - Munster)

6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon - Ulster)

7 - David Wallace (Garryowen - Munster)

8 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution - Munster)

Replacements:
16 - Jerry Flannery (Shannon - Munster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone - Ulster)
18 - Mick O’Driscoll (Cork Constitution - Munster)
19 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas - Leinster)
20 - Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin - Munster)
21 - Paddy Wallace (Ballymena - Ulster)
22 - Geordan Murphy (Leicester)

Edit: Opps....forgot

_blank_

Noopti, could you credit the source of that please

juvenal

Confirmed on the IRFU website. Four changes, I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised. No changes across the 22, and ample strength on the bench as usual to make an impact.

I think Stringer is the key choice, as while I feel O'Leary is more suited to executing a specific tactical game plan that includes kicking, Stringer's quick hands will hopefully provide the backline with the sort of ball they want to cut a few shreds in the Scottish defence. The vast differences between O'Leary and Stringer's games are ideal for them to be swapping in and out of a starting XV, with the other remaining on the bench to bring something entirely knew to the party when called upon.

Can't really quibble with the other selections tbh, and while Fla, Heaslip and Wallace could count themselves unlucky, I think Heaslip especially is being given a break with Cardiff in mind. Even if Leamy has a storming game, I can't see him getting the nod over Heaslip in a potential showdown in Wales, although who knows!

There's next to nothing between Best and Flannery, and both players I feel equally comfortable with in the starting pack, even if they have differing strengths. I also wouldn't be surprised to see BOD being given a break depending on the situation on the scoreboard, with Darcy and Wallace pairing up at centre with 20/25 to go.

Makes for a very interesting game, as much from an individual performance point-of-view as anything else. I'll still stick with my original prediction of 10-15.

gearstick

glad to see dk mixing things up a bit, would like to see some of the younger players comin through tho but glad to see a few changes anyway

juvenal

gearstick wrote: »

glad to see dk mixing things up a bit, would like to see some of the younger players comin through tho but glad to see a few changes anyway

That would be madness IMO. Most of the current 22 have been the backbone of what Irish rugby has done over the past decade, and they fully deserve this opportunity. There are two national tours and a Lions tour this summer, followed by the AI's, so there'll be ample time and opportunity to develop the younger talent.

Bringing in players from outside the 22 at this stage just for the sake of it would be counter-productive and potentially disasterous for this campaign.

TarfHead

You'd get poor quickly trying to second-guess Declan Kidney !

That must be a tough one for Heaslip to take.

juvenal

TarfHead wrote: »

You'd get poor quickly trying to second-guess Declan Kidney !

That must be a tough one for Heaslip to take.

That's a fact - I'd hate to play poker against him!

Re Heaslip, I think he's being given a well-earned rest, and while he was subdued against England from an ovious point of view, he still went through an awful lot of work with the rest of the backrow.

I imagine that DK had a chat with him and told him that he'll be starting against Wales.* In fact, I'd be surprised if he features at all against the Scots, unless Leamy or anyone in the backrow is unfortunate enough to get injured. Leamy could do with a full 80 minutes of test rugby at this point, and that could be key if we need him in Cardiff. Hopefully we'll travel onto Wales with a 100% record and a fully fit and match fit squad.

*This is a total guess and without proof!

buck65

Our biggest test will be breaking down the Scots defence. In attack Scotland will offer little. If this was soccer you could play your goalie on the half way line. Ireland by 12 in a pig of a game (what else with Scotland)

Heaslip will come on at 60 id say and start the next game.

O'Leary is probably being rested aswell.

The one you can pick is between Wallace and Darcy.Darcy has been playing these last few weeks so he is fit and id expect if he plays well he will get the nod.


Its a long time since we have seen a form Darcy and an on fire Bod play together,with stringer at 9 the ball will be so quick.I expect a treat from those 2 tbh,I also think Kearney will like this game,the scotland midfiled is suspect and I can see him running through them a few times.
Ireland by 15.

Noopti

Some good changes, he needs to allow players who are in good form the chance to prove themselves. It can be seen as tough on Heaslip et al, but it could also be seen as Kidney resting some key players before the Welsh game whilst also facilitating bench players getting their chance.

Kidney has added more muscle to the pack in the form of Leamy, whilst also adding extra speed out of the rucks with Stringer. This will subsequently allow the 12/13 channel to hit gaps/punch holes in the Scottish midfield and as a consequence should give more opportunities to our back 3.
He has sacrificed some dynamism with Leamy, but Leamy/Ferris/Wallace are a very physical backrow unit that will be out to secure quick ball for Stringer.

I also think that being able to bring on Heaslip, Wallace and Flannery when there are a lot of tired Scottish players will be fantastic.

I think Kidney has got this perfect. He is a coach that believes in giving players chances and keeping the opposition guessing and he has done this with his team selection for Scotland.


Edit: Oh, and giving bench players a near full 80 minutes will be vital coming into the Wales game. Will give our bench that added punch should the need arise.
Edit 2: Also I would give Ireland the edge in 12 positions looking at the teams.

stephen_n

All in all I wouldn't have any problems with the changes DK has made as they don't weaken the team in any way. Am worried about Rory Bests line out throwing as he has been very poor with it when he has come on in this 6 nations and that is an area that has been providing good quick ball for the backline to work with up to now but he will steady the scrum and put pressure on their front row. Think funnily enough this game would have suited Paddy Wallace most of all and it's a pity he doesn't start this one and I am a Leinster fan so am delighted to see Darcy in but will expect him to be subed by the 60 minute mark. Not too sure about the need to rest players they have had a weeks break for the most part and are professional atheletes who require regular game play to keep their condition. Glad to see Stringer start though and hopefully ROG will be taking the ball up flat like he did against the french to give us more width on our attack.

As for the Scots if we give them penalty's then Patterson will kick them and in that I would guess they will get about 9 points. They are capeable of scoring try's and I would expect them to score at least once.


Scotland 16 - 30 Ireland

bamboozle

stephen_n wrote: »

All in all I wouldn't have any problems with the changes DK has made as they don't weaken the team in any way. Am worried about Rory Bests line out throwing as he has been very poor with it when he has come on in this 6 nations and that is an area that has been providing good quick ball for the backline to work with up to now but he will steady the scrum and put pressure on their front row. Think funnily enough this game would have suited Paddy Wallace most of all and it's a pity he doesn't start this one and I am a Leinster fan so am delighted to see Darcy in but will expect him to be subed by the 60 minute mark. Not too sure about the need to rest players they have had a weeks break for the most part and are professional atheletes who require regular game play to keep their condition. Glad to see Stringer start though and hopefully ROG will be taking the ball up flat like he did against the french to give us more width on our attack.

As for the Scots if we give them penalty's then Patterson will kick them and in that I would guess they will get about 9 points. They are capeable of scoring try's and I would expect them to score at least once.


Scotland 16 - 30 Ireland

glad someone has picked up on Best's lineout throwing, he's been terrible in the 2 games he came on so far, i think some of it is down to poor calls being made to the tail, either way if Jackman was missing lineouts like this he'd be slated.

Noopti

stephen_n wrote: »

Scotland 16 - 30 Ireland

Yeah, looks about right to me. I predict Ireland by 16.

toomevara

Noopti wrote: »

Yeah, looks about right to me. I predict Ireland by 16.

As someone with long and bitter experience of irish disaster at Murrayfield, I'll take any win...we'll do it..just, by a score....

bamboozle

bamboozle wrote: »

glad someone has picked up on Best's lineout throwing, he's been terrible in the 2 games he came on so far, i think some of it is down to poor calls being made to the tail, either way if Jackman was missing lineouts like this he'd be slated.

At least Best will actually do something on the pitch.

Flannery may be a better thrower but Best is far superior in every other aspect.Kidney has obvously had him throwing losts this week,so id expect him to be fine.

waster81

Re Best : ONly concern is his line out throwing, it aint as good as flannery, and we need good possession from 1st phase.

Other than that looks good selection

Noopti

toomevara wrote: »

As someone with long and bitter experience of irish disaster at Murrayfield, I'll take any win...we'll do it..just, by a score....

I have the same long and bitter experience, although recently (bar the pre world cup disaster) it hasn't been so bitter, maybe tense.

Irelands defense has been very good, and Scotlands attack is poor. True, they have some new good backs but they still are no great shakes attacking wise. I see them maybe getting one try, at a push. I can see this Irish team getting at least 2, plus some penalities. So I don't think 16 is a fantastical prediction.

Anyway I think we will all be happy if we are going to Cardiff unbeaten, no matter what the scorelines are!

Timothy Bryce

Best is only in there based on his last few performaces - the only decent thing he brings is his scrummaging. Flannery is a better thrower and better in the loose.

DK has one eye on the Wales game alright - get a good decent test ready squad going into the Cardiff decider

Timothy Bryce

Timothy Bryce wrote: »

Best is only in there based on his last few performaces - the only decent thing he brings is his scrummaging. Flannery is a better thrower and better in the loose.

DK has one eye on the Wales game alright - get a good decent test ready squad going into the Cardiff decider

Flannery is not better in the loose.He tries but he is no where near as effective as he was.Best is better in the loose and scrum.

stephen_n

Brycen Attractive Oasis wrote: »

At least Best will actually do something on the pitch.

Flannery may be a better thrower but Best is far superior in every other aspect.Kidney has obvously had him throwing losts this week,so id expect him to be fine.

Funny I would say that Flannery is better in the loose than Best but not by a huge amount, Best is undoubtedly the better scrumager but that is the only aspect of his game that I would think is superior to Flannery's

Noopti

Flannery has definitely lost some of his effectiveness in the loose recently, not that he is bad now....but Best is definitely not inferior in this regard anymore.

sm.org

stephen_n wrote: »

Funny I would say that Flannery is better in the loose than Best but not by a huge amount, Best is undoubtedly the better scrumager but that is the only aspect of his game that I would think is superior to Flannery's

I always wonder why people say Best is the better scrumager, how is it rated? I know he's bigger but I cant say I've ever noticed a marked improvement in the Irish scrum when he's in it.

Flannery seems to have found his form again and is a shoe in for the Lions.

themont85

Thats a very Scotland orientated selection. We have very few ball carriers with Heaslip out with POC and Wallace the only two ones in the side, Darcy will have to take up a few balls more than Wallace has had to. Leamy is a 6 despite the majority of his appearences been at 8 imo and he'll give the rucks a good pounding on Saturday, hopefully he keeps his discipline in check cos they'll be out to get him with this been his first start i reckon. Its a good selection for the game thats in it but i would be very dissapointed not to see Heaslip in the team for Cardiff.

The team is still vastly experienced, more so than the last one actually so they should have enough for Saturday.

I'm slightly woried that Scotland are beginning to find some back line innovation after years of bludgon running.

I'm really dreading a Murrayfield 01 mark 2 though..

Noopti

sm.org wrote: »

I always wonder why people say Best is the better scrumager, how is it rated? I know he's bigger but I cant say I've ever noticed a marked improvement in the Irish scrum when he's in it.

Flannery seems to have found his form again and is a shoe in for the Lions.

Yeah, I suppose a lot of people just go by what the experts/pundits say. I usually don't notice a vast improvement when he comes on. In fact our scrum has been decent enough of later with Flannery.

Off topic, but it also reminds me of the Parisse situation. He is lauded as the best 8 in the world sometimes. Now, he is a great player but from what I do see of him (which admittedly is not alot) he is very good....but there are a lot of 8's I would put up there with him, if not better. Again, off topic but another example maybe of people (incl the pundits) following the general consensus and propogating a myth that might not necessarily hold much water.

Noopti

themont85 wrote: »

Its a good selection for the game thats in it but i would be very dissapointed not to see Heaslip in the team for Cardiff.

I'm really dreading a Murrayfield 01 mark 2 though..

I seriously doubt Heaslip will be on the bench against Wales. He has been playing fantastic and has been integral to our success in this tournament thus far. Kidney will reward that and he will start, unless Leamy has the his best game ever in a green shirt and forces Kidneys hand.

Also comparing this game to 01 is crazy. Completely different team, coaches and situation! Ireland played Scotland in September ffs!!

Ulstermell0

Noopti wrote: »

Yeah, I suppose a lot of people just go by what the experts/pundits say. I usually don't notice a vast improvement when he comes on. In fact our scrum has been decent enough of later with Flannery.

Off topic, but it also reminds me of the Parisse situation. He is lauded as the best 8 in the world sometimes. Now, he is a great player but from what I do see of him (which admittedly is not alot) he is very good....but there are a lot of 8's I would put up there with him, if not better. Again, off topic but another example maybe of people (incl the pundits) following the general consensus and propogating a myth that might not necessarily hold much water.

not watched that much of him either, but i think Parisse was outstanding against scotland - should have been MOTM

He just gets everywhere and does everything on attack and in defence - like a forward version of BOD!

themont85

Noopti wrote: »

Also comparing this game to 01 is crazy. Completely different team, coaches and situation! Ireland played Scotland in September ffs!!

I know but this is Scotland... they give us a hard game always in Murrayfield. We threw a chance at the Slam away that year with a complacent performance. Tbh im more concerned about this game than the Wales one, weird i know but thats just how it is.

Noopti

Ulstermell0 wrote: »

not watched that much of him either, but i think Parisse was outstanding against scotland - should have been MOTM

He just gets everywhere and does everything on attack and in defence - like a forward version of BOD!

Yep, that's true.....but look at the team he is playing in. A player of his class will instantly look much better when surrounded by poor players. Tbh Heaslip and Harinordoquy have been just as good, if not better.

themont85

Ulstermell0 wrote: »

not watched that much of him either, but i think Parisse was outstanding against scotland - should have been MOTM

He just gets everywhere and does everything on attack and in defence - like a forward version of BOD!

Parisse is what Keith Wood was to Ireland 10 years ago, a world class forward with an array of skills(including the drop goal!) playing in a team of players way below their level.

Persiancowboy

A couple of quick observations about the starting 15 for saturday:

firstly it shows another welcome change from the previous regime where it was often more difficult to get off the team than it was to get on it. At least Deccie is showing a willingness to use the squad available to him and to make the hard choices when he feels the need to do so. The clear message to all the squad is that there are no untouchables on it.

Having said that I have to say as a Munsterman I feel sorry for Heaslip - thought he had been playing very well thus far. Leamy brings a lot to the side but as previous posters have said I really hope he keeps his discipline in check. Flannery can feel a bit hard done by but then he and Best have been subbing for each other for ages now so he can expect some game time on Saturday. Our lineout has worked well this year so I really hope Best's inclusion does not disrupt that.

Darcy's return was well predicted and his speed and ability to break the tackle will be a big plus for us. Stringer will not play for the 80 minutes but again his inclusion should help speed up the ball to our backs. Only question then is what will o'Gara's riding instructions be - hopefully it will be to get our backline moving and that he won't spend the entire afternoon kicking behind the Scottish backs.

Overall this team has the ability and the confidence to beat the Scots and set up a cracking final game against the Welsh.

stephen_n

Noopti wrote: »

Flannery has definitely lost some of his effectiveness in the loose recently, not that he is bad now....but Best is definitely not inferior in this regard anymore.

I think the removal of the maul from the game has affected how people view Flannery's performance as he was always the one who carried at the back of it thus upping his visible involvement in games. He for me however has presented as a ball carrier more than most of the back row in the games so far although he has been taking the ball more static than previously which affects the hard yards he is making!

sm.org wrote: »

I always wonder why people say Best is the better scrumager, how is it rated? I know he's bigger but I cant say I've ever noticed a marked improvement in the Irish scrum when he's in it.

Flannery seems to have found his form again and is a shoe in for the Lions.

It's a matter of degrees I guess but if you look at the Italian game there was a huge difference in the Irish scrum after Best came on in fact we started to drive the Italians back on their ball however we never won a lineout on our own ball after his introduction either!

Timothy Bryce

Noopti wrote: »

Yep, that's true.....but look at the team he is playing in. A player of his class will instantly look much better when surrounded by poor players. Tbh Heaslip and Harinordoquy have been just as good, if not better.

+1

Plus Andy Powell

stephen_n

Noopti wrote: »

Yep, that's true.....but look at the team he is playing in. A player of his class will instantly look much better when surrounded by poor players. Tbh Heaslip and Harinordoquy have been just as good, if not better.

Harinordoquy's performance against the Welsh is the epitome of what a number 8 should do, an absolute masterclass from start to finish!

Noopti

Timothy Bryce wrote: »

+1

Plus Andy Powell

Going on the A.I's yes, but in the 6N so far he has not been up to his previous standard.

Harinorduquy,Heaslip and powell all play for the top 3 teams.Parisse plays with the worst team in the competition.

I havent seen Heaslip,Harinorduquy or Powell chip players like a back or hit drop goals like a 10 this six nations,Parisse has done both.

If I was to rate the 8's so far in order of performances:

Harinorduquy
Heaslip
Parisse
Powell

buck65

Flannery is a good tigerish player at the breakdown and in the loose, his scrummaging is decent too and he hits his targets in the lineout. Best is a safer (assuming he hits his darts) option but less dynamic.
Leamy will pound away all day but can surprise with a break also, would expect Heaslip to come on after 50 mins when things have loosened up and make some trademark runs.
Stringer will spread the ball faster and it is obvious that his selection displays what Kidney thinks of Scotland's attack!
D'arcy for Wallace is a no brainer- Wallace contributed very little in the previous games. D'arcy played well enough last week in Swansea and deserves a game.
All in all the changes should inject a bit of fizz into proceedings