[Article] Music-swapping sites to be blocked by internet providers

Donald-Duck · 23-02-2009 7:03pm

towel401 wrote: »

you forgot about the ****loads of legitimate pr0n on there. only visible if you have an account

66% of broadband users got it for pr0n, rite?

pirated music will be around as long as there is music. and this really won't do much to prevent it - even the ordinary folk who are now using torrent sites and free music sites will just ask someone else to get it for them. i just hope the muppets at eircom will eventually realise this and let it fizzle out. 3 already censor sites (DNS) but thats easy to get past. maybe eircom will use some DNS filtering too to pretend they're doing the right thing while at the same time not making things too hard for the pirates on their network.

what about digiweb? will they be implementing any new anti-filesharing measures?

Most of that porns probably from pay-porn sites :P

exiot · 23-02-2009 7:09pm

As long as they don't block google I'll be fine

towel401 · 23-02-2009 7:10pm

Donald-Duck wrote: »

Most of that porns probably from pay-porn sites :P

some of it. but not that much. you'd be surprised the amount of that **** is just ordinary folk with webcams uploading their homemade ****ing sessions. and if you block tpb you are reducing the supply. which is propping up the adult entertainment industry (if you follow their logic) and no politician wants to be seen helping those guys out

jor el · 23-02-2009 7:22pm

Mathiasb wrote: »

Steal? Nobody is stealing here. Get the facts: one download DOES NOT EQUAL one lost sale.

It's an obvious skit on the DVD Anti-piracy ads.

Mathiasb · 23-02-2009 7:29pm

exiot wrote: »

As long as they don't block google I'll be fine

They will probably block google too, since they are linking to allegedly illegal material.

Isaac702 · 23-02-2009 7:46pm

watty wrote: »

They host the trackers. They do nothing to prevent their server being used by torrents that are infringing copyright

So you are saying they are acting as the infrastructure for distributing the file. Ok then here is a question.
If I burn a DVD with copyrighted content on it and send it to a friend through An Post. Should An Post be shut down just because they act as the distribution method for the trans fare?
Your second statement stands as well as they also do nothing to prevent there system from being used to infringe copyright.

Nody · 23-02-2009 8:14pm

Donald-Duck wrote: »

Car analogies?

Would you steal a car?

Downloading a music album is not stealing, it is breaking the copyright. Me breaking in and taking the master CD is stealing. Can people get this straight once and for all please. Stealing does not equal downloading something on the internet, two completely different offences.

But since some people here don't mind I hope they all agree to extend the medical sectors right for recipes to 100 years as well (i.e. no cheap copies of any medicines for 100 years) along with all other sectors; after all buying cheap brands after 10 years is clearly stealing from the medicine company. Oh and please don't import stuff from the US or Asia, there is a region lock on stuff for a reason you know so please stop breaking the law on that as well. The company has set a policy and it has to be followed, oh and don't rip your CDs to mp3s either, you've not got the consent to do that, or burn your mp3s to a CD, no consent for that either. Did I forget to mention that you're neither allowed to make back up copies of your CDs, DVDs or VHS tapes according to RIAA in case you might break them down? Yea, I trust these guys to do the right thing here!

Donald-Duck · 23-02-2009 8:24pm

Nody wrote: »

Downloading a music album is not stealing, it is breaking the copyright. Me breaking in and taking the master CD is stealing. Can people get this straight once and for all please. Stealing does not equal downloading something on the internet, two completely different offences.

But since some people here don't mind I hope they all agree to extend the medical sectors right for recipes to 100 years as well (i.e. no cheap copies of any medicines for 100 years) along with all other sectors; after all buying cheap brands after 10 years is clearly stealing from the medicine company. Oh and please don't import stuff from the US or Asia, there is a region lock on stuff for a reason you know so please stop breaking the law on that as well. The company has set a policy and it has to be followed, oh and don't rip your CDs to mp3s either, you've not got the consent to do that, or burn your mp3s to a CD, no consent for that either.

Man you guys are not the brightest in this section. One of the mods even explained my post for you Hell, even look at the post I quoted that might help give it away

Mathiasb · 23-02-2009 8:27pm

jor el wrote: »

It's an obvious skit on the DVD Anti-piracy ads.

So you are saying that one downloaded album equals one less album sale for the record company?

Nody · 23-02-2009 8:30pm

Donald-Duck wrote: »

Man you guys are not the brightest in this section. One of the mods even explained my post for you Hell, even look at the post I quoted that might help give it away

I know the skit, it is flawed but then again so is much coming from RIAA et al (you would not steal a purse would you? You would not steal a car would you? I can't remember the third one). The comment still stands though as it is something I keep on seeing in every damn thread how "people are stealing from the music industry". Your qoute was only the last one in the list and I'm not in the mood to go through 13 pages to find another number of people claiming it is theft.

Donald-Duck · 23-02-2009 8:31pm

Nody wrote: »

I know the skit, it is flawed but then again so is much coming from RIAA et al. The comment still stands though as it is something I keep on seeing in every damn thread how "people are stealing from the music industry". Your was only the last one in the list.

Except mine wasn't related to that at all, which you clearly did not read when you see I explained it as a retarded car analogy

jor el · 23-02-2009 8:33pm

Mathiasb wrote: »

So you are saying that one downloaded album equals one less album sale for the record company?

Did you even read what you quoted there, or did you just not understand it?

jor el · 23-02-2009 8:35pm

Mathiasb wrote: »

They will probably block google too, since they are linking to allegedly illegal material.

Stop the ridiculous comments, will you?

Mathiasb · 23-02-2009 8:37pm

jor el wrote: »

Did you even read what you quoted there, or did you just not understand it?

Could you stop trying to insult people, and instead if you feel that you are not understood, explain it further / in another way to make your point?

Thanks.

Mathiasb · 23-02-2009 8:38pm

jor el wrote: »

Stop the ridiculous comments, will you?

How is it ridicilous?

TPB links to torrent files.

Google links to torrent files.

Granted, TPB has a tracker. Google does not (afaik).

towel401 · 23-02-2009 8:38pm

Do you have to be against piracy to be a mod? or just pretend so as not to taint the image of boards?

Mathiasb · 23-02-2009 8:41pm

towel401 wrote: »

Do you have to be against piracy to be a mod? or just pretend so as not to taint the image of boards?

How can anyone be for piracy? How can anyone think that everyone should get what they want for free?

Cabaal · 23-02-2009 8:47pm

towel401 wrote: »

Do you have to be against piracy to be a mod? or just pretend so as not to taint the image of boards?

By this question it would seem you have confirmed that you are actually PRO/FOR piracy....interesting....

I'd suggest that if there is a campaign against eircom blocking sites that you don't join it as you'll only damage the campaigns image, :rolleyes:

Sparks · 23-02-2009 8:47pm

towel401 wrote: »

Do you have to be against piracy to be a mod? or just pretend so as not to taint the image of boards?

Neither; though realising that "piracy" is an emergent property of the business model in use and that the way it'll be handled is through new business models might be a useful thing to have in your head...

Donald-Duck · 23-02-2009 8:48pm

Mathiasb wrote: »

Could you stop trying to insult people, and instead if you feel that you are not understood, explain it further / in another way to make your point?

Thanks.

Mathiasb wrote: »

You just proved you're an idiot. Kthxbye.

Irony

skelliser · 23-02-2009 8:49pm

the stupid analagies and bickering aside does anyone know when this will happen, will and when will eircom make a statement?

i see the propaganda has started with a completly one sided report on the rte news today, will probably by repeated on the rte2 news later tonight.

Mathiasb · 23-02-2009 8:50pm

Donald-Duck wrote: »

Irony

Different people require different responses. What are you adding to this discussion?

maclek · 23-02-2009 8:50pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d82Lq2rVB_4

Cabaal · 23-02-2009 8:51pm

Lads leave off the personal abuse there is no need for it,

Eircom afaik have not made an official statement in relation to telling their userbase, everything up till now has been reported on news sites.

watty · 23-02-2009 8:52pm

Isaac702 wrote: »

So you are saying they are acting as the infrastructure for distributing the file. Ok then here is a question.
If I burn a DVD with copyrighted content on it and send it to a friend through An Post. Should An Post be shut down just because they act as the distribution method for the trans fare?
Your second statement stands as well as they also do nothing to prevent there system from being used to infringe copyright.

An post doesn't have a searchable database of what address to connect to, to exchange the copies. The analogy isn't the same.

TBP isn't the distribution method in that sense. If the tracker had a postal address and you used the tracker file to exchange physical DVDs via courier it would be EXACTLY the same. In fact if you used a good courier and enough DVDs per packet exchanged, you could "Torrent" several terabyte a day. With a bulk courier account it would be cheaper than the same amount transferred by internet.

Post or Internet is irrelevant. TPB facilitates those that want to swap files. If you had specially trained pigeons and SD cards and used TPB to route them it would be just the same.

BTW I'm totally against site blocking, Let the IRMA go after sites themselves.

But I'm totally against Piracy and Copyright infringement.

I'm 100% opposed to DRM and believe in "fair use".

And I believe DVDs are a little overpriced and CDs are lot overpriced. Digital Downloads hugely overpriced. I don't believe enough proportion of sales go to Artists. Copyright Infringement nor stupid measures by the Rights Holders won't help anything.

In Ireland you can be sued for Assisting Copyright Infringement, hence the position of Boards.ie and the Moderators on links to warez etc no matter their personal opinions.

Nody · 23-02-2009 8:54pm

skelliser wrote: »

the stupid analagies and bickering aside does anyone know when this will happen, will and when will eircom make a statement?

There is not even a case schedule at this time, when it comes I'd also expect it to be appealed to higher levels (i.e. EU) and until ruled on I highly doubt that Eircom will lift a finger.

jor el · 23-02-2009 8:55pm

Mathiasb wrote: »

Could you stop trying to insult people, and instead if you feel that you are not understood, explain it further / in another way to make your point?

Thanks.

I'm trying to figure out if you understood what I said? How you could possibly link my post with me believing that downloading = stealing is beyond me. I don't know how I can make it any clearer.

Mathiasb wrote: »

How is it ridicilous?

TPB links to torrent files.

Google links to torrent files.

Granted, TPB has a tracker. Google does not (afaik).

TPB hosts torrent files, Google links to sites that host them. Big difference. There is absolutely no mention, anywhere, of anyone blocking Google.

Mathiasb · 23-02-2009 8:56pm

watty wrote: »

An post doesn't have a searchable database of what address to connect to, to exchange the copies. The analogy isn't the same.

TBP isn't the distribution method in that sense. If the tracker had a postal address and you used the tracker file to exchange physical DVDs via courier it would be EXACTLY the same. In fact if you used a good courier and enough DVDs per packet exchanged, you could "Torrent" several terabyte a day. With a bulk courier account it would be cheaper than the same amount transferred by internet.

Post or Internet is irrelevant. TPB facilitates those that want to swap files. If you had specially trained pigeons and SD cards and used TPB to route them it would be just the same.

Except that the tracker file (torrent?) contains addresses of seeders and leechers, once you have the torrent you don't need the tracker anymore (unless you want new seeders and peers). The tracker doesn't handle any files - just points to whoever has what.

So the tracker doesn't see any files at all. (or, the courier doesn't see any dvds)

skelliser · 23-02-2009 8:58pm

Nody wrote: »

There is not even a case schedule at this time, when it comes I'd also expect it to be appealed to higher levels (i.e. EU) and until ruled on I highly doubt that Eircom will lift a finger.

who is goin to appeal it tho, eircom have said they wont object?

Mathiasb · 23-02-2009 8:59pm

jor el wrote: »

TPB hosts torrent files, Google links to sites that host them. Big difference. There is absolutely no mention, anywhere, of anyone blocking Google.

The torrent files in themselves are not illegal. So, there's nothing illegal about hosting torrent files. (or is it? I have to remember we're talking Irish law here...)

Nody · 23-02-2009 9:01pm

jor el wrote: »

TPB hosts torrent files, Google links to sites that host them. Big difference. There is absolutely no mention, anywhere, of anyone blocking Google.

Incorrect actually, Google catch would hold the torrent file even after it has been deleted so Google would be fair play (not that anyone would be stupid enough to try) and that would still not resolve the likes of Youtube etc.

skelliser wrote: »

who is goin to appeal it tho, eircom have said they wont object?

I could see several organisations due to freedom of speech link, then there are lawyers doing a group claim for fame and of course standard collection online for paying for an appeal.

jor el · 23-02-2009 9:02pm

skelliser wrote: »

who is goin to appeal it tho, eircom have said they wont object?

IRMA will put together their case, and bring it to court. eircom say they will not be opposing it. The judge will then weigh up the merits of IRMA's request, and make a decision. This decision will have to be lawful, under Irish and EU laws. Any decision could be appealed to a higher court, by anyone effected by the decision (pretty much everyone).

jor el · 23-02-2009 9:05pm

Nody wrote: »

Incorrect actually, Google catch would hold the torrent file even after it has been deleted

Google cache will have the torrent sites page held, but the content of that page will not be archived. If you look at the cached page of any torrent search, the torrent links in that page are still sourced from the original site.

Mathiasb wrote: »

The torrent files in themselves are not illegal.

I didn't say they were illegal, I said that was a difference between torrent sites, that host files, and Google, that links to them.

Nody · 23-02-2009 9:08pm

jor el wrote: »

Google cache will have the torrent sites page held, but the content of that page will not be archived. If you look at the cached page of any torrent search, the torrent links in that page are still sourced from the original site.

I stand corrected, just tried and you're correct (what I get for never using the function before

).

jor el · 23-02-2009 9:09pm

Nody wrote: »

I stand corrected, just tried and you're correct (what I get for never using the function before ).

I actually checked it before posting too, as I thought you might be right.

watty · 23-02-2009 9:16pm

The combination of search tool and torrent files absolutely enables users to exchange content easily. That's what TPB exists to do. Therefore under law in most countries and definately in Ireland they deliberately assist in infringing copyright. They make no effort to block searches for copyright material nor block hosting the trackers. Quite the reverse. An Post is not the same thing at all. The point is that the ISPs / Internet / Pidgeons / An Post / Couriers or WHATEVER method Torrents use to exchange the actual information is irrelevent. TPB and similar sites enable the users to "link up" to exchange the data. Without TPB and similar sites a different scheme would have to be developed.

Google doesn't explicity host torrent files nor have a specific real time search of them integrated or not. Google exists to search in general.

There is NO difficulty with finding or even torrenting legitimate content without such sites.

towel401 · 23-02-2009 9:31pm

Cabaal wrote: »

By this question it would seem you have confirmed that you are actually PRO/FOR piracy....interesting....

I'd suggest that if there is a campaign against eircom blocking sites that you don't join it as you'll only damage the campaigns image, :rolleyes:

if there was an irish version of the pirate party i'd join it

PaddyTheNth · 23-02-2009 9:32pm

Mathiasb wrote: »

Could you stop trying to insult people, and instead if you feel that you are not understood, explain it further / in another way to make your point?

Thanks.

Skit

n.

A short, usually comic dramatic performance or work; a theatrical sketch.
A short humorous or satirical piece of writing.

Sparks · 23-02-2009 9:34pm

towel401 wrote: »

if there was an irish version of the pirate party i'd join it

Arrr.

Capt'n Midnight · 23-02-2009 10:05pm

Nody wrote:

But since some people here don't mind I hope they all agree to extend the medical sectors right for recipes to 100 years as well (i.e. no cheap copies of any medicines for 100 years) along with all other sectors; after all buying cheap brands after 10 years is clearly stealing from the medicine company

Just a reminder that patents last about 20 years but copyright extends 70 years after death.

Capt'n Midnight · 23-02-2009 10:11pm

watty wrote:

Post or Internet is irrelevant. TPB facilitates those that want to swap files. If you had specially trained pigeons and SD cards and used TPB to route them it would be just the same.

http://www.notes.co.il/benbasat/5240.asp - pigeon broadband , note it's also wireless

http://www.notes.co.il/benbasat/10991.asp

watty · 23-02-2009 10:13pm

Lettuce dragging courtesy of TPB.

Class Captn. With one pigeon and HCSD you can beat the speed of 3G/HSDPA. It's just a matter of parallelism (more pigeons) to beat Smart or UPC.

Avian Torrent following a Tracker

I'm totally against IRMA dictating what sites should be blocked. It's wrong.

But arguing that copyright infringement is OK, that piracy is ok and TPB is legitimate only gives them ammunition.

It's as useful as fire extinguisher filled with petrol.

iGoogle · 23-02-2009 10:16pm

I thought the current tpb home page was very apt.

They should embrace the technology and use it to increase their wealth. Couple of Euro an album and they having no costs but hosting.

Mathiasb · 23-02-2009 10:16pm

watty wrote: »

Lettuce dragging courtesy of TPB.

Class Captn.

I'm totally against IRMA dictating what sites should be blocked. It's wrong.

But arguing that copyright infringement is OK, that piracy is ok and TPB is legitimate only gives them ammunition.

It's as useful as fire extinguisher filled with petrol.

I agree except the thing about TPB. No one knows if it is illegal until the court decides! The it descends from there... good night.

Nate--IRL-- · 23-02-2009 10:19pm

watty wrote: »

Lettuce dragging courtesy of TPB.

Class Captn.

I'm totally against IRMA dictating what sites should be blocked. It's wrong.

But arguing that copyright infringement is OK, that piracy is ok and TPB is legitimate only gives them ammunition.

It's as useful as fire extinguisher filled with petrol.

Agreed, the discussion should be about IRMA dictating what sites should be blocked. No matter your views on piracy, this is the aspect that should be debated. The Piracy debate has been done to death and certainly isn't going to be resolved here. If fact it is counter productive as it's a distraction from what really should be being discussed.

Nate

Mmcd · 23-02-2009 10:26pm

After the russian site allmusic or whatever was shut down i saw a site that listed 140 spin-off sites from it. Whatever IRMA etc do theyre only delaying the inevitable. Copyright may be illegal but with everything - if enough people are opposed things must change.

Little fact - more people have downloaded from p2p than voted for Barack obama!

skelliser · 23-02-2009 10:27pm

when is the ruling expected on tpb court case?
and if tpb wins what grounds do eircom have to block it?

Kinetic^ · 23-02-2009 10:36pm

Mathiasb wrote: »

Steal? Nobody is stealing here. Get the facts: one download DOES NOT EQUAL one lost sale.

Do you not understand what stealing is? Here it is.

Steal - to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right.

If I go into my neighbours house and take their music without their consent, it's stealing. There was never going to be a sale transaction so it's irrelevant. Stealing.

Mmcd · 23-02-2009 10:37pm

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Do you not understand what stealing is? Here it is.

Steal - to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right.

If I go into my neighbours house and take their music without their consent, it's stealing. There was never going to be a sale transaction so it's irrelevant. Stealing.

I want things to change and am for tpb but if you download something even if you werent going to buy it it is still stealing!

Edit: Directed at last post, misinterpreted yours!

Red Sleeping Beauty · 23-02-2009 10:38pm

I have to ask the question - will they block rapidshare ? Surely someone in IRMA is aware of all the illegal questionable content that's on their servers and available to people for a fee.

[Article] Music-swapping sites to be blocked by internet providers

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