[Article] Music-swapping sites to be blocked by internet providers

Capt'n Midnight

watty wrote:

Post or Internet is irrelevant. TPB facilitates those that want to swap files. If you had specially trained pigeons and SD cards and used TPB to route them it would be just the same.

http://www.notes.co.il/benbasat/5240.asp - pigeon broadband , note it's also wireless

http://www.notes.co.il/benbasat/10991.asp

watty

Lettuce dragging courtesy of TPB.


Class Captn. With one pigeon and HCSD you can beat the speed of 3G/HSDPA. It's just a matter of parallelism (more pigeons) to beat Smart or UPC.


Avian Torrent following a Tracker




I'm totally against IRMA dictating what sites should be blocked. It's wrong.

But arguing that copyright infringement is OK, that piracy is ok and TPB is legitimate only gives them ammunition.

It's as useful as fire extinguisher filled with petrol.

iGoogle

I thought the current tpb home page was very apt.

They should embrace the technology and use it to increase their wealth. Couple of Euro an album and they having no costs but hosting.

Mathiasb

watty wrote: »

Lettuce dragging courtesy of TPB.


Class Captn.





I'm totally against IRMA dictating what sites should be blocked. It's wrong.

But arguing that copyright infringement is OK, that piracy is ok and TPB is legitimate only gives them ammunition.

It's as useful as fire extinguisher filled with petrol.

I agree except the thing about TPB. No one knows if it is illegal until the court decides! The it descends from there... good night.

Nate--IRL--

watty wrote: »

Lettuce dragging courtesy of TPB.


Class Captn.





I'm totally against IRMA dictating what sites should be blocked. It's wrong.

But arguing that copyright infringement is OK, that piracy is ok and TPB is legitimate only gives them ammunition.

It's as useful as fire extinguisher filled with petrol.

Agreed, the discussion should be about IRMA dictating what sites should be blocked. No matter your views on piracy, this is the aspect that should be debated. The Piracy debate has been done to death and certainly isn't going to be resolved here. If fact it is counter productive as it's a distraction from what really should be being discussed.

Nate

Mmcd

After the russian site allmusic or whatever was shut down i saw a site that listed 140 spin-off sites from it. Whatever IRMA etc do theyre only delaying the inevitable. Copyright may be illegal but with everything - if enough people are opposed things must change.

Little fact - more people have downloaded from p2p than voted for Barack obama!

skelliser

when is the ruling expected on tpb court case?
and if tpb wins what grounds do eircom have to block it?

Kinetic^

Mathiasb wrote: »

Steal? Nobody is stealing here. Get the facts: one download DOES NOT EQUAL one lost sale.

Do you not understand what stealing is? Here it is.

Steal - to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right.

If I go into my neighbours house and take their music without their consent, it's stealing. There was never going to be a sale transaction so it's irrelevant. Stealing.

Mmcd

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Do you not understand what stealing is? Here it is.

Steal - to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right.

If I go into my neighbours house and take their music without their consent, it's stealing. There was never going to be a sale transaction so it's irrelevant. Stealing.

I want things to change and am for tpb but if you download something even if you werent going to buy it it is still stealing!



Edit: Directed at last post, misinterpreted yours!

Red Sleeping Beauty

I have to ask the question - will they block rapidshare ? Surely someone in IRMA is aware of all the illegal questionable content that's on their servers and available to people for a fee.

Donald-Duck

Mathiasb wrote: »

I agree except the thing about TPB. No one knows if it is illegal until the court decides! The it descends from there... good night.

It would have been shut down if it was hosted in most other countries, just Sweden has different laws.

stevenmu

skelliser wrote: »

when is the ruling expected on tpb court case?
and if tpb wins what grounds do eircom have to block it?

TPB case has absolutely no impact on Eircom blocking it or not. The issue here isn't anything to do with if TPB is legal or not, and it isn't even really directly about TPB at all.

The issue is if IRMA can arbitrarily decide what sites should or should not be blocked and then impose that decision. TPB just happens to be the first site on the list, but it could be any one of a million others. IRMA are not seeking to block TPB because it is illegal, they are seeking to block it because (in their opinion) it damages the business of their members.

The issue then is can IRMA decide what sites to block based on what suits them. It appears they will need to seek a court order to do so. It also appears that Eircom will not contest such an order.

There are still some important unknowns. One that nobody seems to mention so far is if such a court order will apply to Eircom only and they will need to apply for further orders for each ISP, or if one single order will apply to all ISPs.

It is also unknown what stance other ISPs will take on the issue, they may stay out of it and follow the courts decision, or they may oppose the court order an appeal it if necessary.

Finally the big unknown is if the courts will grant the order(s) or not. I think it could go one of two ways. One is that only IRMA show up, and because the hearing is uncontested they will be automatically granted the order. Alternately, I suspect most judges would not like a completely one sided argument, they would do some research in advance of the hearing, realise the potential implications and invite others to weigh in. IANAL but I believe that how it plays out depends upon the mechanisms involved in the application. If the application is purely against Eircom, or a named set of ISPs, then it's more likely that the judge would see the issue as being between two private entities and if it's uncontested would automatically award the order. If the order sought is more wide ranging, i.e. if they are seeking a ruling that TPB should be blocked from the whole country then the court is much more likely to seek outside expertise.

The latter scenario is obviously the better one, the further IRMA try to push it, the more likely they are to fail. If they just apply for an order directing Eircom to block TPB and Eircom don't contest, then it's more likely the court will be willing to automatically grant it. At that point the only option is to tackle Eircom directly, possibly along the lines of breach of contract, false advertising etc. As I side earlier, I would be of the view that a filtered service is no longer a connection to "The Internet" and is instead just a connection to "an internet".

yoyo

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

I have to ask the question - will they block rapidshare ? Surely someone in IRMA is aware of all the illegal questionable content that's on their servers and available to people for a fee.

There is nothing illegal with the rapidshare site, it has legal uses you know :rolleyes::rolleyes:, great for hosting linux isos et all:pac::pac:

Nick

stevenmu

Mmcd wrote: »

I want things to change and am for tpb but if you download something even if you werent going to buy it it is still stealing!

Technically it is not stealing. It is copyright infringement. That does not make it any more right and it does not make it ok, but it is not stealing. If it was they would not need copyright legislation, it would just be covered under existing theft of property legislation.

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

I have to ask the question - will they block rapidshare ? Surely someone in IRMA is aware of all the illegal questionable content that's on their servers and available to people for a fee.

Shush, don't be giving them ideas :P

The articles linked already seem to imply that this certainly won't be limited to TPB, it's simply the first. I'm sure there's a long list of other sites ready and waiting...

And that's the real issue. If it was just one site, that let's face it exist mainly for the purpose of copyright infringement, that wouldn't be so bad. But once the precedent is set anything could follow.

Donald-Duck

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

I have to ask the question - will they block rapidshare ? Surely someone in IRMA is aware of all the illegal questionable content that's on their servers and available to people for a fee.

They have tried time and time again to shut rapidshare down

NullZer0

maclek wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d82Lq2rVB_4

D'oh!

Got there before me!

+69

Red Sleeping Beauty

yoyo wrote: »

There is nothing illegal with the rapidshare site, it has legal uses you know :rolleyes::rolleyes:, great for hosting linux isos et all:pac::pac:

Nick

stevenmu wrote: »

Technically it is not stealing. It is copyright infringement. That does not make it any more right and it does not make it ok, but it is not stealing. If it was they would not need copyright legislation, it would just be covered under existing theft of property legislation.



Shush, don't be giving them ideas :P

The articles linked already seem to imply that this certainly won't be limited to TPB, it's simply the first. I'm sure there's a long list of other sites ready and waiting...

And that's the real issue. If it was just one site, that let's face it exist mainly for the purpose of copyright infringement, that wouldn't be so bad. But once the precedent is set anything could follow.

It'll be very interesting if rapidshare does get blocked.

Donald-Duck wrote: »

They have tried time and time again to shut rapidshare down

They ? Who is they ?
I know that Rapidshare have lots of money to contest cases.

NullZer0

People who know there stuff will know exactly where to go for downloads

It wont be effecting me, there are so many means of distribution that have been around for years and years - some people just haven't picked up on them yet.

I wont elaborate on that on this board though.

skelliser

iRock wrote: »

People who know there stuff will know exactly where to go for downloads

It wont be effecting me, there are so many means of distribution that have been around for years and years - some people just haven't picked up on them yet.

I wont elaborate on that on this board though.

agreed but thats not the point here, the point is a body representing a commercial interest is attempting to censor part of the internet.

Orion

Mathiasb wrote: »

Could you stop trying to insult people, and instead if you feel that you are not understood, explain it further / in another way to make your point?

Thanks.

Mathiasb wrote: »

You just proved you're an idiot. Kthxbye.

Nice use of irony there.

thebman

I think the main argument in favor of piracy if there is one is that the media it shares is social sharing same as was done before music etc.. was turned into a business.

These businesses came about to spread music etc.. on a wider, global scale not possible by independant artists.

Now with the Internet they have become obsolete and using these measures to try to exist in a world in which their business model cannot exist and has no right to exist.

Of course piracy is still wrong. You should support artists that don't operate under these companies policies rather than downloading content held under unfair usage rights.

Orion

Mmcd wrote: »

After the russian site allmusic or whatever was shut down i saw a site that listed 140 spin-off sites from it. Whatever IRMA etc do theyre only delaying the inevitable.

Completely true. There are so many ways around any form of blocking that it's ridiculous. They will stop the casual downloader but not their admitted target - the serial downloader. That guy will get around any blocking in seconds.

skelliser wrote: »

when is the ruling expected on tpb court case?
and if tpb wins what grounds do eircom have to block it?

Their grounds will be a court order from an Irish court.

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

I have to ask the question - will they block rapidshare ? Surely someone in IRMA is aware of all the illegal questionable content that's on their servers and available to people for a fee.

I'd guess that that site is second on the list. IRMA are a shower of sound-bite twats. tPB is the buzzword at the moment because it's in the news hence it's the primary target. They haven't mentioned any other sites like Rapidshare in case people haven't heard of them yet and they don't want to alert them to it (or other sites).

skelliser wrote: »

agreed but thats not the point here, the point is a body representing a commercial interest is attempting to censor part of the internet.

Agreed. And the thread has become derailed to an extent. Censorship, like any other form of oppression (yes I went there - bear with me), always starts small and then grows. Once the people become used to small restrictions on their liberties you can increase that restriction a little bit at a time and before you know it you're in a situation where you have very few. There are plenty of examples of this in history. So today we may block tPB, tomorrow Rapidshare, then Torrentfreak for discussing torrents in general, then boards.ie for discussing Torrentfreak .... Each step seems reasonable individually based on the previous step. But when taken as a whole is a complete disregard for freedoms hard-earned. And no - I don't trust the Irish courts to be sensible. Once IRMA win one case - and let's face it, if Eircom don't contest it they will - it opens a floodgate. The second case will use the first case as precedent and likely succeed. It is a very slippery slope to be going down.

skelliser

So who is goin to contest these court orders, i would if i had the funds but i dont.

So we need to organise. moaning, arguing and non senical analagies arent gonna stop this or get us anywhere.
The facebook group is a start for those of us on it http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=53586632674

Everyone should join and get this started, i know its only a facebook group but at least its a start.

thebman

lol what exactly does a facebook group do that people whining on boards doesn't?

skelliser

if you bothered to read it you would see that there are a few suggestions like contacting the minister for communication, some meps as well, none of which have been mentioned here, wihich in turn will get media attention etc. etc.
An example: The facebook group set up to try and get jeff buckleys "grace" to number 1 got international media attention.

What suggestions do you have?! your attitude is typical of irish people, moan all day and then ridicule people who actually decide to try and do something.

thebman

No I think a lot more could be done by using existing groups such as http://www.digitalrights.ie/ to try to combat these issues rather than using a public social networking site which achieves nothing.

Using Facebook! You might as well start a Youtube group. It achieves nothings since these sites don't have anything to do with consumer issues nor do they want to have anything to do with consumer issues in Ireland.

skelliser

yes i know about that group and went straight to there site yesterday afternoon but they have nothing up our any press release.
Now im no fan of facebook but it could be useful in this instance to spread info about this issue. alot of people dont read boards or have even heard about this yet. I dont think the times or indo or ragsheets have picked up on this yet. So we need to spread awareness as quickly and easily as possible.
All im saying is I wouldnt be so quick to knock the facebook group, sure look at it now, it only started yesterday at ~5pm and has over 120ppl now with over 1,000ppl awaiting conformation.

thebman

I don't think how many people are in the group is relevant to be honest. It will never be respected or quoted by an politician.

Digial Rights Ireland are an independant lobby group and if they can say their membership went up 20% since this issue was highlighted in the media it would do a lot more than any Facebook or other social networking group could do to combat this issue.

People are only joining the Facebook group because it requires no work on there part IMO and it just highlights how little Irish people actually care about their rights. If they won't fight for them then they will lose them and it is all our loss if it does happen without incident.

skelliser

i agree with the last part but it wont do any harm and like i said its a start.
Suggestions are being posted on that group, im sure someone will post about digital rights ireland which in turn will create awareness about them and so on.

skelliser

maybe a online petition?