BSG 2003 S4E15 "No Exit" FRACKING SPOILERS

Stark · 18-02-2009 11:20AM

silvine wrote: »

I've watched BSG since the start and I am confused.

Who is this Daniel guy and when was he in it? Is there an episode I need to go back and watch or something?

He was never in it. They just dropped the name in the last episode to try and explain the cylon model numbers being 1,2,3,4,5,6 and 8.

silvine · 18-02-2009 11:22AM

Frak!

Okay and what about Balthar? Has there been any explanation about how he survived the blast and why he keeps (or used too) seeing Six?

degrassinoel · 18-02-2009 12:07PM

silvine wrote: »

I've watched BSG since the start and I am confused.

Who is this Daniel guy and when was he in it? Is there an episode I need to go back and watch or something?

am guessing its daniel greystone, or a model derived from the orginal creator of the cylon's due to be seen in 'Caprica'

kevmy · 18-02-2009 12:41PM

Just a couple of things I noticed.

At one stage when Boomer is talking to Ellen she says something along the lines of 'who am I supposed to love?". Then jump shot to Tyrol - will they link up once Boomer and Ellen get back to the fleet. I mean they were together at the start of the series.

As regards the visions that the President, Balthar, the 6 and Athena had regarding the opera house and Hera. Perhaps these of signs of how things could finish with Cylons, humans, half-cylons living together. They started out form the same place essentially (Kobol = the opera house) and they all have different Gods the President is a firm believer in the Gods of Kobol, the Cylons have their programmed God which Baltar has kinda subscribed to now and Athena is an example of some of the many people in the fleet who seem to be atheist

Derek Coleman · 18-02-2009 02:59PM

Stark wrote: »

Sharon Agathon became pregnant on Caprica in the presence of resurrection technology though.

Yeah forgot about that! Love is supposedly the missing component according to the cylons isnt it?

I'm dying for every episode every week but I keep forgetting that its also one less episode till its over!!! OMG its all coming to an end. What will I do with my life.

Sherifu · 18-02-2009 03:15PM

Derek Coleman wrote: »

What will I do with my life.

I'll give ya 5 euro for it.

CiDeRmAn · 18-02-2009 03:20PM

The missing component was love and compassion, that which the human earth refugees gave the Cylons, together with the human bodies.
Unfortunately, or rather understandably, the new Cylons also gained the ability to be irrational, to hate and despise, to regret and seek vengance, just as Cavil has sunken into the worst that the human psyche has to offer.

The Human form Cylons are more or less human, their thoughts are just as ours are, but they are concious of their mechanical forebears and the slavery imposed by humans in the past, not to mention the depraved leadership and "spiritual" guidance by Cavil.

Had another human form cylon taken the leadership role and preached peace and compassion, the annihalation of the 12 colonies may never have happened.
In all likelyhood the Cylons themselves would have been wiped out, just in case, by the colonies.

Stark · 18-02-2009 04:25PM

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Also, it surely means to that the Final Five are actually simply human, just with the resurrection ability turned on, whilst the cylons human models are also human, but with the psychology of an advanced AI forming the patterns laid out in the meat of their brains.

That sounds like quite a good explanation. That the "cylons" on Earth were humans who spent enough time evolving away from the humans of the 12 colonies that they acquired distinguishable genetic markers. They then passed on these markers to the skinjobs when they helped create them and so when scans were done on their fossils, they looked like "cylons". There's no doubt that the Final Five in their current form are synthetic, judging from Ander's eye lighting up when scanned by a Raider but this is easily explained by them needing to create synthetic bodies to resurrect into.

I don't there's been any mention of the Earth "cylons" being created by humans has there? They did come with a warning about the dangers of creating artificial life and treating it badly, but this is most likely a reference to the centurions that they created and that turned on them.

Syferus · 18-02-2009 04:52PM

Overheal wrote: »

Well it might have been pure coincidence that they all started glowing in Anders's POV right after he mentions there were 8 Cylons. Or, it could have been a not so subtle drop that Kara is a Cylon

Kinda like these glowy feckers:

Nothing immediately apparent in her background that would link her to daniel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara_Thrace#Background

edit: Anybody else wonder if Galactica is going to suddenly become a lifeform?

Or it might have something to do with him having a bullet in his brain and being pumped full of drugs. Things don't have to have subversive meaning.*

Except when they do.

Oh, and I can't get over how fantastically blunt and hateful the nurse was when she told Starbuck Anders had little or no brain activity.

MisterAnarchy · 18-02-2009 04:59PM

Anyone think Boomer is going to lead Cavil straight to the fleet either intentionally or unintentionally ?

Derek Coleman · 18-02-2009 05:21PM

Well I think its obvious that they will all meet up somewhere. I don't think Boomer is double crossing Ellen or anything. I think they will end up at Earth in a series ending afterparty for a cylon/rebel/colonial group hugging session.

I see Boomer and Tyrol doin the nasty now. Wonder how that makes Helo feel. :mad: Wife Swap!

amen · 18-02-2009 06:02PM

no information or material object can travel faster than light

may not be true. The equation could be taken that nothing can travel at the speed of light but it may be possible to travel faster than it.

Syferus · 18-02-2009 06:18PM

amen wrote: »

may not be true. The equation could be taken that nothing can travel at the speed of light but it may be possible to travel faster than it.

That's pretty bad pseudo-science.

The general idea of the speed of light in reality is that it is the maxium speed anything can travel at.

Most FTL travel in science fiction works off the premise that the technology bends space itself, much like folding a piece of paper, and traveling from the start point to the other side at speeds that don't exceed the speed of light, but bring you to a point that it would take light longer to reach than it did to travel there by that method.

MarkR · 18-02-2009 06:56PM

Syferus wrote: »

h

Oh, and I can't get over how fantastically blunt and hateful the nurse was when she told Starbuck Anders had little or no brain activity.

Yep. Worst nurse ever. She's not getting a box of chocs.

My head is warped from all of that. Bet starbuck is a corrupted download of what was left of daniel. Not enough of the chromosomes of the male (xx) left, so they had to make due and make a female (xy) .

Hmm... Might cross post to ladies lounge, what do you think.

The Gnome · 18-02-2009 07:34PM

Syferus wrote: »

That's pretty bad pseudo-science.

The general idea of the speed of light in reality is that it is the maxium speed anything can travel at.

Except abused radio waves apparently...

DeVore · 18-02-2009 08:34PM

Small but telling point: the universal maximum for speed is the speed of light in a vacuum

In that piece he's not talking about transmitting information or particles but a wave/effect such as a radio wave. Its an interesting experiment but we arent about to break any of Relativity's laws or jump onto warp-capable ships as a result.

DeV.

Overheal · 18-02-2009 09:06PM

Okay...Okay...Okay:

SCIENCE FICTION

Better? :pac:

CodeMonkey · 18-02-2009 09:18PM

Writers answer questions about episode "No Exit" here.

Suaimhneach · 18-02-2009 09:42PM

Thats a good read. I think the next few episodes are going to have us just as wound up. I wonder how long it'd take to watch the whole series from start to finish? A weekend wouldnt be enough.

Vokes · 18-02-2009 09:47PM

That's a super Q&A.

I can't recall the bit where Cavil mentions something about "The Colony" to Ellen.

That's pretty intriguing. Now need to rewatch the episode again-again to hear it :pac:

Kind've disappointed tho that Jane Esperson bascially implies the humanity began on Kobol - which means the show is now disconnected for our reality, i.e. that our Earth doesn't exist in the show's mythos.

noodler · 18-02-2009 10:11PM

I am disappointed about the fact the Mutineers appeared to have gotten an amnesty after Adama firmly stated "if you do this, there will be no amnesty, no forgiveness!"

I wanted to see Skulls, Racetrack and Seelix in particular burn for that.

(Oh for those that haven't read the Q and A the question is poised about the fate of the mutineers and the writer says it is answered subtly when Adama offers the mutineers the chance to retake the ship.)

In retrospect I have to say I think the way the mutiny ended was a bit crap.

Syferus · 18-02-2009 11:27PM

noodler wrote: »

I am disappointed about the fact the Mutineers appeared to have gotten an amnesty after Adama firmly stated "if you do this, there will be no amnesty, no forgiveness!"

I wanted to see Skulls, Racetrack and Seelix in particular burn for that.

(Oh for those that haven't read the Q and A the question is poised about the fate of the mutineers and the writer says it is answered subtly when Adama offers the mutineers the chance to retake the ship.)

In retrospect I have to say I think the way the mutiny ended was a bit crap.

I completely disagree.
Adama has never been one for bloodlust and would be be described as a pragmatist. He was against the cowboy justice being dealt out in the wake of the New Caprica rescue and it seemed pretty clear that after the scale of the mutiny it would be unreasonable to expect huge numbers of heads to roll, especially since Galactica is progressively becoming more and more understaffed as time goes on.

He killed the ring-leaders and it's unclear as to how others hae been dealt with it would be safe to assume none of the muntineers will have been left in any sensitive or leadership roles.

The response of the nurse to Anders' brain activity is a good signpost as to the fact the sentiment that drove the mutiny is still alive an well, albeit well supressed for now.

And of course, there's nothing to stop further shockwaves from the mutiny from featuring in coming episodes.

Overheal · 18-02-2009 11:40PM

They could have been demoted or discharged after. The marines? How much did most of them know. Zarek was misleading everyone. Gaeta never knew about the Quorom deaths beforehand. Im sure the marines responsible in that killing were tried.

Anyway we may yet hear about or see more aftermath from the 12 hour Mutiny.

noodler · 18-02-2009 11:54PM

Okay in respose t the New Caprica thing first. I think that situation was different, I mean even Adama couldn't declare Baltar guilty and he was the head of the puppet government.
Whereas he says clearly that, unlike with he situation on New Caprica, there will be no amnesty for outright mutiny. With no basestar presentat New Caprica for so long I argue lines were blurred down there.

Racetrack, Skulls and Connor were also all a second away from killing an unarmed Lee in coldblood before Starbuck showed up. Whatever about his own life being threatened, I couldn't see William Adama being as forgiving when it comes to Lee's.
I guess we can assume that the more senior members of the mutiny were demoted or put in less sensitive areas but the fact that we have to assume doesn't do much to support the argument that the mutiny ending was well done IMO.

With regards Zarek misleading people: no doubt that the killing of the Quarom was not sanctioned by the mutineers but I think it is a stretch (based on what they showed us) to say the mutineers were misled into their actions. They still did a bunch of despicable things, I mean try to kill Lee, beat the crap out of Anders and Lee, try to Kill Adama (and kill poor Jaffy instead) etc etc. What I am tryinf to say in this final paragraph is that much of the traitorous acts against people who have saved the fleet time and time again were done without much of Zarek's misleading.

DirkVoodoo · 19-02-2009 12:51AM

Stark wrote: »

That sounds like quite a good explanation. That the "cylons" on Earth were humans who spent enough time evolving away from the humans of the 12 colonies that they acquired distinguishable genetic markers. They then passed on these markers to the skinjobs when they helped create them and so when scans were done on their fossils, they looked like "cylons". There's no doubt that the Final Five in their current form are synthetic, judging from Ander's eye lighting up when scanned by a Raider but this is easily explained by them needing to create synthetic bodies to resurrect into.

I don't there's been any mention of the Earth "cylons" being created by humans has there? They did come with a warning about the dangers of creating artificial life and treating it badly, but this is most likely a reference to the centurions that they created and that turned on them.

I thought this was explained last night in an exchange between Tori, Tigh and Tyrol. The 12 tribes of Kobol created a 13th tribe of machines to serve them. After whatever event occured with their "gods" the 12 tribes left to found the colonies while the 13th left for earth.

There is a lot of confusion, go back to the miniseries on Ragnok station and Leoben was ill due to "the nebula degrading his silica pathways" whereas from what was seen of Cavil last night, the Cylons are nearly totally organic. Although I suppose Anders did mention that the Cylons had been experimenting with organic synthesis when they found them, in the form of the hybrids.

I'm pretty sure the 13th tribe were always cylons, they evolved into a more complete synthesis of organic and synthetic lifeforms.

I also never liked that Connor chap after his involvement in the circle. Come to think of it, he has gotten away with a lot of murder. Airlock the jerk!

Sad Professor · 19-02-2009 01:16AM

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

There is a lot of confusion, go back to the miniseries on Ragnok station and Leoben was ill due to "the nebula degrading his silica pathways" whereas from what was seen of Cavil last night, the Cylons are nearly totally organic.

I dunno, what about all his talk about software and programming himself not to sleep? I mean, if cylons can turn something as something as essential to humans as sleep off, then they can't be very human and it should be pretty easy to detect them. But it sounded cool so I guess we can throw it with the glowing-spine stuff.

Syferus · 19-02-2009 03:40AM

noodler wrote: »

Okay in respose t the New Caprica thing first. I think that situation was different, I mean even Adama couldn't declare Baltar guilty and he was the head of the puppet government.
Whereas he says clearly that, unlike with he situation on New Caprica, there will be no amnesty for outright mutiny. With no basestar presentat New Caprica for so long I argue lines were blurred down there.

Racetrack, Skulls and Connor were also all a second away from killing an unarmed Lee in coldblood before Starbuck showed up. Whatever about his own life being threatened, I couldn't see William Adama being as forgiving when it comes to Lee's.
I guess we can assume that the more senior members of the mutiny were demoted or put in less sensitive areas but the fact that we have to assume doesn't do much to support the argument that the mutiny ending was well done IMO.

With regards Zarek misleading people: no doubt that the killing of the Quarom was not sanctioned by the mutineers but I think it is a stretch (based on what they showed us) to say the mutineers were misled into their actions. They still did a bunch of despicable things, I mean try to kill Lee, beat the crap out of Anders and Lee, try to Kill Adama (and kill poor Jaffy instead) etc etc. What I am tryinf to say in this final paragraph is that much of the traitorous acts against people who have saved the fleet time and time again were done without much of Zarek's misleading.

I really don't want them to spend large amounts of what little time the show has left repeating 'Collabrators', so it's hard for me to be too worried about them putting a nice moralistic you-reap-what-you-sow slant on a storyline, the sorts of things Battlestar has thankfully strayed away from.

I think it's a little much to want those characters dead for their potential actions, but it's hard to imagine any of them being let service anything but the hanger floors aboard Galactica, if ineed, they still are. You also have to remember just how peripheral most of them are - a rung lower than even one-minute storyline wonders like Hotdog. Battlestar has such a huge established cast that it has to centre on groups at a time to avoid it becoming directionless mush.

And again, it's probably too early to assume there won't be references and nuggets about the mutiny's aftermath to come, especially since Battlestar has always done a good job at keeping it's past current.

On a different note, those Cavil-Tyrol counseling sessions is season 2 yet again take on a new perspective when you take into account Cavil's knowledge. And yeah, some of it is on-the-fly filling in, but the show has done such a good job in leaving the gaps to make these turns believable and sensible.

Reflector · 19-02-2009 11:09AM

did anyone else think it was pretty cold when the Nurse told Kara that anders was brain dead, surely Doc Cottle would have told her before she started whispering sweet nothings in his ear. Maybe it was a really bad taste practical joke.

"haha he's brain dead and you've been talking to him"

silvine · 19-02-2009 11:53AM

Good article!

So let me get this straight: The Cylons were the 13th tribe who left Kobol. They settled on Earth and created their own Cylons who rebelled and killed them. By the time the final five reached the 12 colonies the humans had created their own Cylons and were in a war with them. So the final five gave these new Cylons reseurrection technology if they agreed to stop the war but they were betrayed, had their memories wiped and were sent to live in hiding by Cavil.

So: Who created the final five?
What happened to the original cylons/humans?
Does the first Cylon war have anything to do with theskin jobs?
Does anyone else's head hurt?

noodler · 19-02-2009 02:00PM

Syferus wrote: »

I really don't want them to spend large amounts of what little time the show has left repeating 'Collabrators', so it's hard for me to be too worried about them putting a nice moralistic you-reap-what-you-sow slant on a storyline, the sorts of things Battlestar has thankfully strayed away from.

I think it's a little much to want those characters dead for their potential actions, but it's hard to imagine any of them being let service anything but the hanger floors aboard Galactica, if ineed, they still are. You also have to remember just how peripheral most of them are - a rung lower than even one-minute storyline wonders like Hotdog. Battlestar has such a huge established cast that it has to centre on groups at a time to avoid it becoming directionless mush.

And again, it's probably too early to assume there won't be references and nuggets about the mutiny's aftermath to come, especially since Battlestar has always done a good job at keeping it's past current.

On a different note, those Cavil-Tyrol counseling sessions is season 2 yet again take on a new perspective when you take into account Cavil's knowledge. And yeah, some of it is on-the-fly filling in, but the show has done such a good job in leaving the gaps to make these turns believable and sensible.

Truly awful argument there mate. Basically amounts to "I wouldn't really find that interesting". I think the majority of us would love to see how the traitors were dealt with.

What do you mean potential actions? Mutiny is treason and treason warrants the death sentence.

BSG 2003 S4E15 "No Exit" **FRACKING SPOILERS**

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BSG 2003 S4E15 "No Exit" FRACKING SPOILERS