BSG 2003 S4E15 "No Exit" **FRACKING SPOILERS**

Overheal

They cram a lot of eye popping new material in just the first 3 minutes. This looks like its going to be a big mother fracking opener of an episode.

edit: actually, information overload: im going to have to rewatch this. Frak.

Tristram

Muchos gracias Boards is but a place for idle banter Hope this episode lives up to hype!

Overheal

A lot of information gets thrown out in this episode so here is a summary. You've been warned...

-The Cylons on Earth could procreate

-Ressurection Technology ("Biological Memory Transfer") was derived from the 13th Tribe. After being disused for two thousand years in lieu of procreation, the 5 re-engineered the technology.

-Using Ressurection to Survive the destruction of Earth (which was a perpetuation of Things Happening Before) The 5 Traveled to the Colonies by Relativistic Sublight. This took them approximately 1000 years.

-Upon reaching the Colonies the 5 give the Cylons the ability to create skinjobs and ressurect. The Centurions had already created Hybrids (Raiders and Basestars).

-Using the Centurion-bred Concept of One True God, Helen and the other 5 hoped that the pattern of rebirth and destruction could be broken by embracing religious ideals of Love and Compassion (All of this has happened before; all of this will happen again)

-Model 7, Daniel, was utterly destroyed by Cavil, when he grew jealous of the attention Helen gave to the model line. There are therefore, 13 Cylon Models. But ultimately this seems like a bit of a hole filler for having numbered Boomer as 8. Meh.

-Cavil, whom hates humanity and being created in the image of a human, kills the Five, and when they resurrect he blocks their ability to access their memories; they are planted as Sleeper Humans. Cavil intended for them to come to hate their human lives. Tigh was the first released, early after the first colonial cylon war. The rest followed over time.

-The Temple of 5 was originally built by the 13th Colony, where they prayed to the Gods during their Exodus, seeking Guidance. It is from here they chose the direction to which lead to Earth. Later through some cosmic coincidence not supposedly planned by the 5, 3 (Deanna) Sees the faces of the Final Five during a Super Nova at the temple. This would also mean that Starbuck's Maelstrom image was not planted by the 5 either...


Im still a little spun around by all the Kobol and 13th colony talk and how it fits into everything 3000 years later. Was the 13th Tribe ressurecting skinjobs and the 12 tribes procreating humans? If so then the 13th tribe abandoned resurrection when they reached Earth. Like I said, im a little confused, and What about the Temple of Apollo? How did that get there I wonder.

Talisman

The 13th tribe on Kobol were Cylon - they had been created by the Humans and treated as lesser beings/slaves, presumably there was an uprising and that is why they left Kobol for Earth.

Interesting that the idea of monotheism came from the Centurions, which would make the idea of lobotomizing them very bad. Cavil has begun the next cycle, by making the Centurions and Raiders slaves he is repeating the mistakes of the past.

The model 7, Daniel was an artist, Starbuck is a bit of an artist herself and we know she was resurrected - coincidence?

Overheal

well she is rather manly...but then they did mention the line was utterly abolished down to the genome. So its doubtful.

monosharp

How the hell did Tigh get put into the colonys before the first cylon war ?!?!?!?

That makes no sense.

The 5 said that they arrived when the (first) cylon was was in process.

Tigh served in the first cylon war ...

I'm confused.

Vokes

I thought they said he was placed there after the war?

---

Talisman wrote:

The model 7, Daniel was an artist, Starbuck is a bit of an artist herself and we know she was resurrected - coincidence?

Oooohh, nice spot.

---

Anyways, great episode. As we expected, an episode that would be light on action, after the previous weeks' rollercoaster, and heavy on plot progression.

There's a lot to digest, so definitely needs a 2nd viewing today to wrap my head around it all.


Best line?

Twas from Cavil...

"'I gotta scrub for surgery - I can't wait to see what perfection looks like on the inside."

:pac:

Sherifu

It was great to get so much revealed in one episode.

Tigh was put into the colonys after the war.

Talisman wrote: »

The model 7, Daniel was an artist, Starbuck is a bit of an artist herself and we know she was resurrected - coincidence?

I'm thinking there'll be a connection there too, we'll see.

Volvagia

Brilliant!

So much information.

I fraking love this show!!!!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

great episode, i lol'd hard when i saw john hodgeman

DeepBlue

It's pretty much the "Answers" episode .
Now if only Lost could do one of those :pac:.

Gotta disagree with Vokes though, Tigh had the best line - "You point a finger back far enough and some germ gets blamed for splitting in two."

Johnny Storm

Daniel = Balthar, just possibly ?

Sherifu

Father Mordmas wrote: »

great episode, i lol'd hard when i saw john hodgeman

"Hi, i'm a pc"

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Sherifu wrote: »

"Hi, i'm a pc"

John Hodgeman = Daniel?!!!

allj97

anyone thinking gaeta might be the 7 - " i know who u are etc etc "
and if he is resurrected he comes back for revenge on cavil , saves the fleet and gets redemption ! long shot but the way its going at the moment. still doesnt explain how starbuck was resurrected though !

anybody remember the "swirl" scene between cavil and ellen - after this episode its gonna be hard to watch again !!

Sherifu

Father Mordmas wrote: »

John Hodgeman = Daniel?!!!

:eek:

I doubt it.

Derek Coleman

Right now I want all of you to stop guessing who Daniel is!! For fook sake.

Nobody has a clue so stop just naming people and expecting them to come back. Its not Gaeta cause Ressurection tech is no longer possible so he's dead. end of. And its not Dee, Its not Billy. :mad:

Number 7 was destroyed in the early stages of development. If for some reason it survived then it could be linked to Kara Trace with the "artist" comment so lets just leave it at that for now until we get more clues/info.


Anyway. Sol Tigh serving with Adama during the war.
The Razor flashback shows a "Nugget" Adama right at the beginning of the Truce between both Cylons and Humans.
That Truce coincides with the deal between the final 5 and cylons to make Skinjobs.
Remember this is not the end of the war because it was still a war but they had a cease fire so Adama could have met Tigh after this anywhere in between the 40 years they were never heard from.
So the Tigh and Adama relationship now makes some sense.

allj97

Derek Coleman wrote: »

Right now I want all of you to stop guessing who Daniel is!! For fook sake.

Nobody has a clue so stop just naming people and expecting them to come back. Its not Gaeta cause Ressurection tech is no longer possible so he's dead. end of. And its not Dee, Its not Billy. :mad:

Number 7 was destroyed in the early stages of development. If for some reason it survived then it could be linked to Kara Trace with the "artist" comment so lets just leave it at that for now until we get more clues/info.

YES SIR , CAVILL SIR !

Johnny Storm

Derek Coleman wrote: »

Right now I want all of you to stop guessing who Daniel is!! For fook sake.

Nobody has a clue so stop just naming people and expecting them to come back.
... so lets just leave it at that for now until we get more clues/info.

I'm guessing: no Valentines day cards ? :pac:

Derek Coleman

Ha. SORRY. Got a bit annoyed. Nobody can talk about the number 7 I forbid it.

Fysh

That was a great episode, cements the return to form and the return to a bigger overall story brilliantly. I'm not sure whether the #7 thing was just a throwaway thing to explain the numbering or whether it will be something bigger again; there is a possibility that we've met one of them so far and just haven't realised. At first I thought it might be Starbuck but as far as we can tell she's been resurrected which shouldn't be possible if Cavill's permanently boxed her - unless there's a secret mutiny amongst the Cylons as well...

All told it's been a great season so far and I'm looking forward not only to the rest of it but to watching the entire series in one go after it's all done and dusted.

Derek Coleman

Well Cavil was jealous of the attention Ellen gave Daniel (7) so I'd assume there was at least one of them. She said he was an artist. And Cavil spoiled the copy's of him right down to the genome (?) which probably means the essence of Daniel could not be recreated.

So there could have been one of him. I am convinced it is not any of the main characters. We've been tru this with the final 5 fiasco .

I'd look for a link between Daniel and Starbuck. Maybe a father or something. Who knows. But its a great story to look forward too.

I'd find it really funny if somehow Daniel was sex changed into Kara Trace. Just like the character Starbuck was changed from a man into a woman. :pac:

Sherifu

Derek Coleman wrote: »

Ha. SORRY. Got a bit annoyed. Nobody can talk about the number 7 I forbid it.

Ease up on the coffee.

Overheal

Derek Coleman wrote: »

Well Cavil was jealous of the attention Ellen gave Daniel (7) so I'd assume there was at least one of them. She said he was an artist. And Cavil spoiled the copy's of him right down to the genome (?) which probably means the essence of Daniel could not be recreated.

So there could have been one of him. I am convinced it is not any of the main characters. We've been tru this with the final 5 fiasco .

I'd look for a link between Daniel and Starbuck. Maybe a father or something. Who knows. But its a great story to look forward too.

I'd find it really funny if somehow Daniel was sex changed into Kara Trace. Just like the character Starbuck was changed from a man into a woman. :pac:

Well it might have been pure coincidence that they all started glowing in Anders's POV right after he mentions there were 8 Cylons. Or, it could have been a not so subtle drop that Kara is a Cylon

Kinda like these glowy feckers:



Nothing immediately apparent in her background that would link her to daniel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara_Thrace#Background

edit: Anybody else wonder if Galactica is going to suddenly become a lifeform?

TheIrishGrover

Bloody brilliant episode. Great to see so much explained *cough*lost*cough*. I don't think it'll be as easy as Starbuck being a re-gened 7 though. Since everyone's throwing out names: How about Hera? She's a dab hand with the auld crayons
Thought Dean Stockwell was effing brilliant in this episode.

Johnny Storm

Derek Coleman wrote: »

Nobody can talk about the number 7 I forbid it.

Fair enough so.

Goodshape

Brilliant.

321654

Derek Coleman wrote: »

Right now I want all of you to stop guessing who Daniel is!! For fook sake.

Everyone Except you i guess.

Derek Coleman wrote: »

Well Cavil was jealous of the attention Ellen gave Daniel (7) so I'd assume there was at least one of them. She said he was an artist. And Cavil spoiled the copy's of him right down to the genome (?) which probably means the essence of Daniel could not be recreated.

So there could have been one of him. I am convinced it is not any of the main characters. We've been tru this with the final 5 fiasco .

I'd look for a link between Daniel and Starbuck. Maybe a father or something. Who knows. But its a great story to look forward too.

I'd find it really funny if somehow Daniel was sex changed into Kara Trace. Just like the character Starbuck was changed from a man into a woman. :pac:

lostexpectation

drag it out for 3 series, now it all comes out

robots make hybrids
humans make hybrids ,those hybrids mate, and then this is the future of humanity.

how did 'al' gain so much control over ellen way back when?

Tristram

Can't wait til next week!

mewso

I think I need a time line starting from now, 2009, in terms of BSG. Who built what and who went where when if you know what I mean.

bazz26

I'm Daniel and so is my wife! Maybe Zack Adama is Daniel? :pac:


Seriously though good episode but my head is still hurting trying to absorb so much information from 42 mins.

Derek Coleman

321654 wrote: »

Everyone Except you i guess.

I see your point.

I should have elaborated what I meant by saying that Starbuck is the only viable guess at this moment with the whole Anders thing and her apparent resurrection and the Artist remark. We have people now just shouting out names of anyone!!

But yeah I see your point, and point taken.

Madflah

Overheal wrote: »

edit: Anybody else wonder if Galactica is going to suddenly become a lifeform?

and therefore make Galactica the dying leader:p....found it hard to get my head round all of that

J-blk

Excellent episode but yeah, 2nd viewing is definitely in order to figure out all that happened...

Derek Coleman

Madflah wrote: »

and therefore make Galactica the dying leader:p....found it hard to get my head round all of that

That is such a ludicrous guess that it might just be right. HA. Good one.
Think I'll steal that and post it on another forum.

Madflah

Thought of it a while back, though it was too daft to suggest, then when the cracks appeared..............

Gummy Panda

Wait a minute...

So humans made the cylons on cobalt and had them as slaves. The cylons left as 13th tribe (was cobalt nuked?) and went to Earth. Humans pissed off to 12 colonies. On Earth, cylons rediscover resurection. I assume they made centurions who turned on them. So 5 cylons survive aboard a ship in orbit and head to colonies. What happen to the centurions who nuked earth?

/confused

tvnutz

4 seasons of questions and 42 minutes of answers! It was hell of a lot to take in in such a short amount of time! Frak me! :P Great episode,Ill probably have to watch it again to catch every detail despite reading it here.

So is Anders dead or what? no brain activity...

Derek Coleman

Here's what I thought the story was.....

I don't know the relationship between humans and cylons on Kobol but Humanoid cylons leave Kobol to find Earth.
On Earth they decide to pro-create the fun way and destroy the ressurrection technology.
They also create centurian cylons.
The 5 get together and decide they don't want to die and they create ressurrection technology for themselves because they think a war will happen.
They die and download.

Is any of that right? Anders was talking too fast and Starbuck kept talking over him the little cow.:mad: grrrrr

Overheal

I just found out My cable company added Sci Fi HD to my lineup last night

Meaning I should have totally been watching last night's episode in HD

Madflah

Madflah wrote: »

and therefore make Galactica the dying leader....

...who is somehow Daniel.

CiDeRmAn

Right, the 13th tribe made it to earth, from Kobol, developing AI in time and having there own nuclear Armageddon, some escaped, tapping into a dormant resurrection function and escaped the holocaust, moving at less than light speed across the stars, using the resurrection tech to maintain themselves along the way.
When they cam within range of the other 12 colonies they found the 1st Cylon war already underway and, unknownst to the colonies, ended the war by promising the Cylon machine race a new human based form, the Cylons own attempts at this resulting in the Hybrids.
The Cylons agree and the 5 humans from the 13th colony use the resurrection tech to bring forth 8 new models, the team was lead by Ellen Tighe.
The 8, however, instead of learning compassion and love instead, under the influence of "John" became spiteful and jealous, and started the plans for the annihilation of the 12 colonies.
They imprisoned, in effect, the 5 within the colonies in a variety of roles, but wiped their memories of their true selves, only for these to be awakened on the route back to earth, following beacons and clues that they, themselves had left. The 8 had also planted themselves throughout human society to act as sleepers in case of unforeseen circumstances where they could act and rid the universe of the human remnants.
The apocalypse takes place and the events as we know them unfold.

Still not answered though...

What's the story with Kara "Starbuck" Thrace?
What the deal with the visions seen by the president?
Why does the doctor insist on having a fag in the OR where he just performed brain surgery?

Johnny Storm

Derek Coleman wrote: »

... Starbuck is the only viable guess at this moment with the whole Anders thing and her apparent resurrection and the Artist remark.

I agree Starduck is certainly a viable guess although the gender thing could be a bit of a sticking point. She does need plenty of explaining as you said with her whole death and rebirth carryon and her visions/paintings of the supernova.

The other major character who needs some explaining is Balthar and his head-Six. Tortured supergenius = "sensitive", "frail", "artistic", Daniel?

Also FWIW Daniel is the name of one of the main characters in Caprica?

tvnutz

Also,the final 5 age,so we are told. Adama witnesses Tigh age. so while they are travelling a 1000 years did they not age? did they have new bodies to stop the ageing. and when cavill placed them on the colonies,did he place them as babies? he would have had to put a much younger version of tigh,because adama sees him when they are younger.

Derek Coleman

You've just reminded me that halfway through this episode I thought to myself - Baltars character is pointless now - and I forgot about him but he will have a major role to play.

Daniel in Caprica is Daniel Graystone. He invents the Cylon technology on Caprica so I don't know if that will be a connection as its some years before the final 5 show up at the colonies.

I think that Daniel Graystone fella is the guy from RAZOR who Kendra blows up. He created the centurians which would essentially make him their god and hence their belief in one GOD. Before he died he said his life would begin again in ways unknown. This whole show is a mind fuk.

Overheal

tvnutz wrote: »

Also,the final 5 age,so we are told. Adama witnesses Tigh age. so while they are travelling a 1000 years did they not age? did they have new bodies to stop the ageing. and when cavill placed them on the colonies,did he place them as babies? he would have had to put a much younger version of tigh,because adama sees him when they are younger.

Relativistic Travel, explained under Einstein's special theory of relativity. 2 Identical clocks where synchronised and it was found after one traveled by train (relatively faster than the other clock) that it was actually behind the standing clock, which showed a later time.

Traveling at near the speed of light, passengers on board a spaceship experience very little time elapse while outside the ship time moves much slower. Traveling at near-lightspeed for 1000 years, it would have felt to the occupants that only days weeks or months elapsed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativity_of_simultaneity

ixoy

tvnutz wrote: »

Also,the final 5 age,so we are told. Adama witnesses Tigh age. so while they are travelling a 1000 years did they not age?

I'm assuming that since they travelled at near light speed, as Ander's said, that the laws of relativity apply - so one year might pass onboard their ship but meanwhile Earth would have seen a hundred years pass (or whatever the factor is).

tvnutz

ixoy wrote: »

I'm assuming that since they travelled at near light speed, as Ander's said, that the laws of relativity apply - so one year might pass onboard their ship but meanwhile Earth would have seen a hundred years pass (or whatever the factor is).

I thought he said they didn't have light speed though,and that's why it took so long. I'll definatly have to watch it again.

It also doesn't explain the other part to my question,did they have younger versions of their bodies for resurrection,which cavill put on the colonies? After Tigh kills her Ellen resurrects in the exact why she looked when she died. But when put on the colonies they were younger and aged...

ixoy

tvnutz wrote: »

I thought he said they didn't have light speed though,and that's why it took so long. I'll definatly have to watch it again.

He said "sub-luminal" , i.e sub-light speed. Not FTL (faster-than-light). As you approach light speed, relativity kicks in - so for example if you're 99.9% speed of light, you're still "sub-luminal" but loads of years can pass at your original destination relative to your on-board ship-time. It's a pretty common concept in sci-fi novels (Alastair Reynolds being a good example)

It also doesn't explain the other part to my question,did they have younger versions of their bodies for resurrection,which cavill put on the colonies? After Tigh kills her Ellen resurrects in the exact why she looked when she died. But when put on the colonies they were younger and aged...

Heh, that's a fair point. Why didn't she wake up in a younger body? I guess we could say that Cavil did it to frak with her?

Derek Coleman

Cavil has said he wanted them to witness the holocaust so maybe he could make young versions of them somehow and time it so that they'd be old enough and ugly enough to have lived a life as a human and feel the same pain the rest of them were gonna feel. Who knows! RDM knows.