BSG 2003 S4E15 "No Exit" **FRACKING SPOILERS**

bazz26

I'm Daniel and so is my wife! Maybe Zack Adama is Daniel? :pac:


Seriously though good episode but my head is still hurting trying to absorb so much information from 42 mins.

Derek Coleman

321654 wrote: »

Everyone Except you i guess.

I see your point.

I should have elaborated what I meant by saying that Starbuck is the only viable guess at this moment with the whole Anders thing and her apparent resurrection and the Artist remark. We have people now just shouting out names of anyone!!

But yeah I see your point, and point taken.

Madflah

Overheal wrote: »

edit: Anybody else wonder if Galactica is going to suddenly become a lifeform?

and therefore make Galactica the dying leader:p....found it hard to get my head round all of that

J-blk

Excellent episode but yeah, 2nd viewing is definitely in order to figure out all that happened...

Derek Coleman

Madflah wrote: »

and therefore make Galactica the dying leader:p....found it hard to get my head round all of that

That is such a ludicrous guess that it might just be right. HA. Good one.
Think I'll steal that and post it on another forum.

Madflah

Thought of it a while back, though it was too daft to suggest, then when the cracks appeared..............

Gummy Panda

Wait a minute...

So humans made the cylons on cobalt and had them as slaves. The cylons left as 13th tribe (was cobalt nuked?) and went to Earth. Humans pissed off to 12 colonies. On Earth, cylons rediscover resurection. I assume they made centurions who turned on them. So 5 cylons survive aboard a ship in orbit and head to colonies. What happen to the centurions who nuked earth?

/confused

tvnutz

4 seasons of questions and 42 minutes of answers! It was hell of a lot to take in in such a short amount of time! Frak me! :P Great episode,Ill probably have to watch it again to catch every detail despite reading it here.

So is Anders dead or what? no brain activity...

Derek Coleman

Here's what I thought the story was.....

I don't know the relationship between humans and cylons on Kobol but Humanoid cylons leave Kobol to find Earth.
On Earth they decide to pro-create the fun way and destroy the ressurrection technology.
They also create centurian cylons.
The 5 get together and decide they don't want to die and they create ressurrection technology for themselves because they think a war will happen.
They die and download.

Is any of that right? Anders was talking too fast and Starbuck kept talking over him the little cow.:mad: grrrrr

Overheal

I just found out My cable company added Sci Fi HD to my lineup last night

Meaning I should have totally been watching last night's episode in HD

Madflah

Madflah wrote: »

and therefore make Galactica the dying leader....

...who is somehow Daniel.

CiDeRmAn

Right, the 13th tribe made it to earth, from Kobol, developing AI in time and having there own nuclear Armageddon, some escaped, tapping into a dormant resurrection function and escaped the holocaust, moving at less than light speed across the stars, using the resurrection tech to maintain themselves along the way.
When they cam within range of the other 12 colonies they found the 1st Cylon war already underway and, unknownst to the colonies, ended the war by promising the Cylon machine race a new human based form, the Cylons own attempts at this resulting in the Hybrids.
The Cylons agree and the 5 humans from the 13th colony use the resurrection tech to bring forth 8 new models, the team was lead by Ellen Tighe.
The 8, however, instead of learning compassion and love instead, under the influence of "John" became spiteful and jealous, and started the plans for the annihilation of the 12 colonies.
They imprisoned, in effect, the 5 within the colonies in a variety of roles, but wiped their memories of their true selves, only for these to be awakened on the route back to earth, following beacons and clues that they, themselves had left. The 8 had also planted themselves throughout human society to act as sleepers in case of unforeseen circumstances where they could act and rid the universe of the human remnants.
The apocalypse takes place and the events as we know them unfold.

Still not answered though...

What's the story with Kara "Starbuck" Thrace?
What the deal with the visions seen by the president?
Why does the doctor insist on having a fag in the OR where he just performed brain surgery?

Johnny Storm

Derek Coleman wrote: »

... Starbuck is the only viable guess at this moment with the whole Anders thing and her apparent resurrection and the Artist remark.

I agree Starduck is certainly a viable guess although the gender thing could be a bit of a sticking point. She does need plenty of explaining as you said with her whole death and rebirth carryon and her visions/paintings of the supernova.

The other major character who needs some explaining is Balthar and his head-Six. Tortured supergenius = "sensitive", "frail", "artistic", Daniel?

Also FWIW Daniel is the name of one of the main characters in Caprica?

tvnutz

Also,the final 5 age,so we are told. Adama witnesses Tigh age. so while they are travelling a 1000 years did they not age? did they have new bodies to stop the ageing. and when cavill placed them on the colonies,did he place them as babies? he would have had to put a much younger version of tigh,because adama sees him when they are younger.

Derek Coleman

You've just reminded me that halfway through this episode I thought to myself - Baltars character is pointless now - and I forgot about him but he will have a major role to play.

Daniel in Caprica is Daniel Graystone. He invents the Cylon technology on Caprica so I don't know if that will be a connection as its some years before the final 5 show up at the colonies.

I think that Daniel Graystone fella is the guy from RAZOR who Kendra blows up. He created the centurians which would essentially make him their god and hence their belief in one GOD. Before he died he said his life would begin again in ways unknown. This whole show is a mind fuk.

Overheal

tvnutz wrote: »

Also,the final 5 age,so we are told. Adama witnesses Tigh age. so while they are travelling a 1000 years did they not age? did they have new bodies to stop the ageing. and when cavill placed them on the colonies,did he place them as babies? he would have had to put a much younger version of tigh,because adama sees him when they are younger.

Relativistic Travel, explained under Einstein's special theory of relativity. 2 Identical clocks where synchronised and it was found after one traveled by train (relatively faster than the other clock) that it was actually behind the standing clock, which showed a later time.

Traveling at near the speed of light, passengers on board a spaceship experience very little time elapse while outside the ship time moves much slower. Traveling at near-lightspeed for 1000 years, it would have felt to the occupants that only days weeks or months elapsed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativity_of_simultaneity

ixoy

tvnutz wrote: »

Also,the final 5 age,so we are told. Adama witnesses Tigh age. so while they are travelling a 1000 years did they not age?

I'm assuming that since they travelled at near light speed, as Ander's said, that the laws of relativity apply - so one year might pass onboard their ship but meanwhile Earth would have seen a hundred years pass (or whatever the factor is).

tvnutz

ixoy wrote: »

I'm assuming that since they travelled at near light speed, as Ander's said, that the laws of relativity apply - so one year might pass onboard their ship but meanwhile Earth would have seen a hundred years pass (or whatever the factor is).

I thought he said they didn't have light speed though,and that's why it took so long. I'll definatly have to watch it again.

It also doesn't explain the other part to my question,did they have younger versions of their bodies for resurrection,which cavill put on the colonies? After Tigh kills her Ellen resurrects in the exact why she looked when she died. But when put on the colonies they were younger and aged...

ixoy

tvnutz wrote: »

I thought he said they didn't have light speed though,and that's why it took so long. I'll definatly have to watch it again.

He said "sub-luminal" , i.e sub-light speed. Not FTL (faster-than-light). As you approach light speed, relativity kicks in - so for example if you're 99.9% speed of light, you're still "sub-luminal" but loads of years can pass at your original destination relative to your on-board ship-time. It's a pretty common concept in sci-fi novels (Alastair Reynolds being a good example)

It also doesn't explain the other part to my question,did they have younger versions of their bodies for resurrection,which cavill put on the colonies? After Tigh kills her Ellen resurrects in the exact why she looked when she died. But when put on the colonies they were younger and aged...

Heh, that's a fair point. Why didn't she wake up in a younger body? I guess we could say that Cavil did it to frak with her?

Derek Coleman

Cavil has said he wanted them to witness the holocaust so maybe he could make young versions of them somehow and time it so that they'd be old enough and ugly enough to have lived a life as a human and feel the same pain the rest of them were gonna feel. Who knows! RDM knows.

Ivan

What was the big hullabaloo about Deanna seeing the faces of the final five, surely all of the John/Cavil's would have seen their faces too?

Unless only the first copy of John saw their faces before killing them and placing them amongst the colonies.

Really great episode and I must admit that Ellen is a significantly more interesting character, when she is the heavenly mother of an entire race

noodler

Derek Coleman wrote: »

You've just reminded me that halfway through this episode I thought to myself - Baltars character is pointless now - and I forgot about him but he will have a major role to play.

Daniel in Caprica is Daniel Graystone. He invents the Cylon technology on Caprica so I don't know if that will be a connection as its some years before the final 5 show up at the colonies.

I think that Daniel Graystone fella is the guy from RAZOR who Kendra blows up. He created the centurians which would essentially make him their god and hence their belief in one GOD. Before he died he said his life would begin again in ways unknown. This whole show is a mind fuk.

Wow. I really think thats who Daniel is now. Still like to know if Kara is the harbinger od death for something she did already or something she is going to do.

don ramo

i think that kara dad is the final cylon, and that kara is the first cylon child to be born, that is her significance,

the final 5 are human and always were, on kobal they found a way to live forever, through resurection, but didnt seem to like the idea of living forever, maybe the people of kobal are still there, and are waiting to be discovered, but obviously a group werent happy with living for so long, and decided to go and live a normal lives, and used resurretion tech to get as far as earth, then buried and forgot about the technology, started living normal lives of 50-70 years, rather than thousands, but obvioulsy something happend on the planet and a civil war or something broke out, so 5 people tried reinventing (with sucess) ressurection technology, and when the civil war ended with the planet being nuked, they had the pods ready in orbit, and were downloaded, and so began there journey to the colonies only to find a war happening, and know there was no way to stop the cylons offered to make them equal to there former human enslavers, obviously it was a bad idea,

maybe they were trying to find kobal, and stumbled upon the colonies, teh cylons were invented in whatever time caprica will be set, the final 5 are humans, and they invented the skin jobs,

the thing is the skin jobs have free will, if cavil want to see x-rays why doenst he just install a sensor in hes head, noting stopping him

Lucutus

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

*snip*

Thought Dean Stockwell was effing brilliant in this episode.

Ziggy told me there was a 99.7 percent chance that Dean Stockwell was going to be fracking awesome in this episode...

McSandwich

noodler wrote: »

..Still like to know if Kara is the harbinger od death for something she did already or something she is going to do.

Destroying the resurection ships assured her role as harbinger of death for cylons though I'm sure there's something more to it than this alone..

stevenmu

Fantastic episode.

Do we know for sure that the 13th tribe were Cyclons? What if they were human, and resurrection technology originally allowed humans to resurrect in skinjob bodies? The 13th tribe also built AIs, who turned around and nuked them. The final 5 were actually humans, and seeing what was coming re-invented resurrection tech so that when earth was attacked they resurrected into skinjob bodies and went off to warn the other colonies. Also, when Ellen escapes the baseship I presume she went straight back to Earth, then Starbuck arrives, dies, Ellen resurrects her and sends her back?

MisterAnarchy

So many answers yet so many questions.
This whole cylon/human thing is driving me mad.

Saw this elsewhere ,it seems a sound timeline.


-Over 3000 years ago the humans on Kobol create Humanoid Cylons.

- For an as-yet undisclosed reason the Humanoid Cylons are exiled from Kobol and head to Earth.

-On their way to Earth they stop at the Algae Planet and build the Temple. They pray for guidance on how to reach Earth.

-They find Earth. Over the years they learn to procreate so abandon resurrection tech. They start to build their own Robot Cylons on Earth.

-Many years later five Humanoid Cylon scientists on earth start getting warnings from "head characters" about an imminent holocaust caused by rebelling Robot Cylons so they begin working on recreating the resurrection tech. They all work on it but Ellen is the mastermind behind it.

-When the holocaust happens, everyone is wiped out. The five resurrect on their ship which is orbiting Earth.

-The five decide to go to Kobol and warn humans about the dangers of creating AI. Time & distance is not a problem thanks to some convenient technobabble.

-The holocaust on Earth and the exiling of the 12 Tribes from Kobol happened almost simultaneously, 2,000 years ago. It's unclear if these events were linked. If the Lords of Kobol exiled the humans for creating the Cylons, it's unclear why they waited 1,000+ years before doing so.

-The Final Five realised that the cycle would perpetuate, so they chose to warn the Twelve Colonies not to create AI, or if they did to treat it well. They didn't have jump drives, so travelled subluminally to the Colonies. At relativistic speeds it took them almost 2,000 years to reach the Colonies, although only a few months or years passed for them. Presumably, not knowing the 12 Tribes had abandoned Kobol, they went via Kobol and then followed the colonists to the Twelve Colonies..

-They get to the Colonies & find history is repeating itself and humans have created their own mechanical Cylons. Humanity is at war with the Mechanical Cylons they (the humans) created.

-The mechanical Cylons believe in the one true God and are already trying to create skinjobs but their efforts are going nowhere fast, they can only manage to create the hybrids who pilot the base-stars.

-The Five agree to help them out as long as they stop the war against the humans. The Cylons agree.

-The Final Five and the mechanical Cylons settled 'a colony', presumably beyond the armistice line

-The Five start working on the skinjobs, basically recreating the Humanoid Cylon race. They create John Cavil (in the image of Ellen's father).

-John helps them build the other models including an unseen model: Daniel, who we are told was the artistic type.

-John has issues, he turns out to be a nasty piece of work and in a fit of jealousy destroys the Daniel model.

-The Five build the Resurrection Hub, but dont hand down the instruction manual to the skinjobs.

-John rebels against the Five and kills them. When they resurrect, he blocks their memories, implants new ones and puts them in the Colonies to experience human suffering. Plus unaware sleeper agents, such as Boomer.

-He somehow programmes the other models so they never think & never discuss the five.

-He convinces the other models to attack to the Colonies; Mini-series begins.

McSandwich

stevenmu wrote: »

Fantastic episode.

Also, when Ellen escapes the baseship I presume she went straight back to Earth, then Starbuck arrives, dies, Ellen resurrects her and sends her back?

Interesting idea, though Ellen said that rebuilding reserrection technology would require the work of all of the final 5. There's also the question of where she found a new viper?

MisterAnarchy

stevenmu wrote: »

Fantastic episode.

Also, when Ellen escapes the baseship I presume she went straight back to Earth, then Starbuck arrives, dies, Ellen resurrects her and sends her back?

That isnt possible as Ellen only escaped the Basestar 2 days before the start of this episode.

Derek Coleman

Here's what I'm thinking people. Kara trace finds her body in the cockpit of a Viper on EARTH. Could her arrival on EARTH have started or caused a Nuclear war. Hence the line.... Kara Trace is the harbinger of death.

Now you ask - How does she get to Earth?