BSG 2003 S4E11 - "Sometimes a Great Notion" FRACKING SPOILERS

Sherifu · 19-01-2009 10:27AM

Overheal wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacks :rolleyes:

So that's what those things were. Yank toys.

"A variation of this game known as "gobs" was played in Cork, Ireland in the 1950s using five pebbles (often quartz) found on the beach."

Good old Cork.

Overheal · 19-01-2009 11:09AM

Shuddup ya gob.

Sherifu · 19-01-2009 11:30AM

Wouldn't mind a gobstopper right about now.

Talisman · 19-01-2009 03:50PM

It was good to see Baltar back to being a scientist.

The trigger for the flashbacks was also interesting.
Tyrol touched the shadow and experienced the flash back to the holocaust.
Anders picked up the remnants of the guitar and twigged the source of the song.
Tigh submerged his hands under the water in a similar fashion to the way the other seven models interface with their base ship.

Starbuck : This would appear to be a variation on the ship of lights plot line from the original series.

"While I have thought of incorporating the Count Iblis/Ship of Lights mythology from the original show into the series, I've pretty much decided not to go there for now."
- Ron Moore, December 2005.

Dee - she lasted a hell of alot longer than Serina in the original series.

pirelli · 19-01-2009 06:48PM

Overheal wrote: »

That might be clutching straws - probably a faux pas.

??I am not following you overheal.

Ellen said they would be reborn again and they were husband and wife on caprica. As far as I am aware they (the five) were part the thirteenth tribe all died on that planet ( earth) and were resurrected or something similar.

quad_red · 19-01-2009 10:27PM

Very impressed. Just watched season 4 up to episode 11 in the last two days. It really seems to have recaptured the momentum it lost in season 3.

Cheers for all the theories guys. Allot to think about now.

As was said, I think the Galactica six being pregnant is a major issue going forward.

Will Kara tell anyone she found her own body? Given she was about to tell Lee before he started blubbing over Dee.

And poor ol Dee - the hottest chick in the series. And that's saying something.

Sad Professor · 20-01-2009 12:08AM

Fantastic episode. It's great to see that Moore learned from the mistakes made in DS9's last season and isn't leaving all the conclusions to the final episode.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 20-01-2009 12:11AM

quad_red wrote: »

And poor ol Dee - the hottest chick in the series. And that's saying something.

i'm not sure how to respond to that without getting myself banned from the forum but no.

Just, no.

Overheal · 20-01-2009 01:26AM

I was always a Boomer fan myself.

Tristram · 20-01-2009 01:35AM

Boomer and Dee!

The_Minister · 20-01-2009 02:08AM

Father Mordmas wrote: »

i'm not sure how to respond to that without getting myself banned from the forum but no.

Just, no.

What??

With those beautiful green eyes?

I wouldn't be down with the Congo (as a rather old and racist man said to me recently) often, but I thought that she was smoking hot. Just before she went into her room, and was talking to your man I thought that she was gorgeous.

That said - 6 - FTFW.

sceptre · 20-01-2009 02:33AM

Sherifu wrote: »

So that's what those things were. Yank toys.

"A variation of this game known as "gobs" was played in Cork, Ireland in the 1950s using five pebbles (often quartz) found on the beach."

Good old Cork.

[offtopic]
It stuck around for a while after that, I can recall playing gobs as a nipper. Definitely after the Moscow Olympics

Cloudinsane · 20-01-2009 02:37AM

cuppa wrote: »

I thought dee was humming the song that gata was singing when he was in the bed recovering,from his leg been cut off.

Aye, she was humming his song.

Gah, while she wasn't exactly a pivotal character, like Cally (well, pre-baby crisis), was one of the cheerier, more uplifting characters on the show. I'll miss her.

A friend of mine hadn't seen the episode yet and asked what I thought of it. I replied to him "Mind Blowing" :P

quad_red · 20-01-2009 09:47AM

Cloudinsane wrote: »

Gah, while she wasn't exactly a pivotal character, like Cally (well, pre-baby crisis), was one of the cheerier, more uplifting characters on the show. I'll miss her.

Reasonably grounded, caring personalities are in short supply on the bucket! And Dee seemed to be one of the few self aware, humble characters on the show.

And that scene where she spars with Lee wearing those ridiculously tight jogging pants -

TheIrishGrover · 20-01-2009 03:06PM

My reading of it is that maybe the humans were the ones to instigate the original holocaust that resulted in the destruction of the cylon colony and that the 5 were intended to be instruments in helping it not happen again. "All this has happened before and all this will happen again". That they would return to stop the cycle.

No, what I found most interesting about this episode was the whole Starbuck thing: With her and Leobin finding "her?" viper etc. I thought it was very interesting how Leobin was so freaked out by the discovery. Scared of her, backing away and almost panicking when Starbuck revealed what the hybrid told her.
.
.
Having said that, Dee's suicide: I don't think I've been that shocked about an episode of TV since....... Well, since Kara's "death" (That's two for BSG, huh)

Khannie · 20-01-2009 03:09PM

Cloudinsane wrote: »

A friend of mine hadn't seen the episode yet and asked what I thought of it. I replied to him "Mind Blowing" :P

HAHAHA.

I like it.

Khannie · 20-01-2009 03:12PM

Well.....I was underwhelmed. The 5th cylon was a bit of a let down, though I think they'd built it up so much that that was inevitable. The number of questions that episode raised with only 11 more shows to go makes me nervous. NERVOUS!

I think I'm still bitter at being made wait a year. Maybe I'll warm to it a bit more.

Kiith · 20-01-2009 03:28PM

Khannie wrote: »

Well.....I was underwhelmed. The 5th cylon was a bit of a let down, though I think they'd built it up so much that that was inevitable. The number of questions that episode raised with only 11 more shows to go makes me nervous. NERVOUS!

I think I'm still bitter at being made wait a year. Maybe I'll warm to it a bit more.

They didnt mention the 5th all that much, even when we knew who the first 4 were. I think we built it up to such massive levels, as we were sure it was going to be a massive twist. I'm happy enough with the reveal, as anything that leads to more Tigh on screen is a good thing.

Best character ever!

Goodshape · 20-01-2009 03:39PM

Khannie wrote: »

though I think they'd built it up so much that that was inevitable.

Which is reason #1 that I'm glad they got 'the reveal' out of the way so soon. I thought we'd be waiting until much closer to the end.

And I agree with Kiith anyway... more built up by us than them really.

thecommander · 20-01-2009 03:57PM

Wondering if the 13th tribe were clones that split from the other 12 after some sort of war/unrest. Were they around before the metal versions ever were?

jor el · 20-01-2009 04:07PM

quad_red wrote: »

And that scene where she spars with Lee wearing those ridiculously tight jogging pants

Dee in her trakkie bottoms, yet to be beaten, even by a naked 6 or 8.

Watched it a 2nd time last night, you'd see it a little different the 2nd time round too.

Dee's suicide was coming. Her actions on the planet, she seemed broken. On he way back in the Raptor, she was talking to herself about holding it together. She seemed very spaced out when looking after Hera. In her conversation to Lee, in the pilots briefing room, she was talking about how "they" would need him to tell them the truth about what was going on about, and "they" would need leadership, no "us" or "we". She was already planning on not being there. Talking to Gaeta, after her date with Lee, she said she wanted to hold on to the good feeling as long as possible. I reckon, she never wanted to go back to feeling down, and as soon as she did - bam (or bang).

Leoben really was frightened by finding the body in the crashed viper. He seems totally dismayed by it, and by finding out that the Hybrid called Kara the harbinger of death. That's going to play a more significant role in the final episodes. Also, why is she alive again, if she died?

Thigh's flashback happened when he picked up a piece of debris from the water. What he picked up was a door, off what looks like mailboxes, that were in the lobby where both he and Ellen died. Just as something physical had caused flashes for Tyroll and Anders (and presumably Tory, though nobody cares what that was).

The biggest questions now are, when and how is Ellen coming back, and did she know she was a Cylon all along? Her actions in the early episodes were always a little suspect, and the producers had sort of an idea of using her as a Cylon (before he whole Final Five thing came about), but didn't, so it really does make sense for her to be one. In the flashback, Ellen did say "We'll be reborn.... again", which is a little strange, as it implies they were already reborn. Also, in the market where Tyroll died, there were lots of people, who aren't any of the current Cylon models, so it's reasonable to assume that they didn't all get reborn.

jor el · 20-01-2009 04:27PM

thecommander wrote: »

Wondering if the 13th tribe were clones that split from the other 12 after some sort of war/unrest. Were they around before the metal versions ever were?

The way I see it is, that when the 13th tribe left Cobol, they were the same human as the rest of the colonials. The centuries separated lead them to evolve differently to those on the 12 colonies. This could explain how the remains of the 13th tribe, are different to the colonial humans.

The humans on Earth created robots (Cylons) to do their bidding, but these robots rebelled, and destroyed the humans (and possibly themselves, but we don't know that yet). The destruction of Earth coincides roughly with the destruction of Cobol, perhaps the Cylons that were created on Earth went to Cobol to get rid of them too.

Where exactly the link between the Earth metal Cylons, the current centurian cylons, and the Earth skin Cylons and the current Skinjobs is, I'm not sure. I reckon, that the Earth Human/Cylon were normal people, who could have children in the normal way (unlike current Skinjobs), and the metal Cylons destroyed them, and themselves.

The Final 5, being re-born, end up back with the colonials, and with their partially remembering, partially forgetting, of what had gone before, are ultimately responsible for (or connected in some way to) the development of new metal Cylons, based on the ones they created on Earth, though somewhat different.

Programmed somewhere in these new Cylons, were the instructions to make the current Skinjobs. These could just be grown, based on the physiology of the original 13th tribe humans. This would explain the similarity between Skinjobs, and the 13th tribe. Remember, from Razor, that the metal cylons were developing something in the lab where Adama found the captive humans. My guess is this was the experiments they needed to do, in order to develop and grow the 7 models.

That's my take on it anyway. The re-birth of the 5 from Earth, and them not quite remembering the past, could be what gave rise to the various prophecies, "All this happened before, and will happen again", and so on. I think it's all connected to these 5, what they did on Earth, and their re-insertion into the colonies.

Khannie · 20-01-2009 04:50PM

Goodshape wrote: »

Which is reason #1 that I'm glad they got 'the reveal' out of the way so soon. I thought we'd be waiting until much closer to the end.

And I agree with Kiith anyway... more built up by us than them really.

Hmmm. I'm partially convinced. I'll be less harsh on the next episdode.

lostexpectation · 20-01-2009 07:20PM

is kara a cylon nobody was expecting a 14th cyclon?
that what scared leoban

although i thought leoban could have guessed what tehy were going to find like we did.

its good that ellen is the final cylon as it brigns it back to their homeworlds before all this **** happened.

lostexpectation · 20-01-2009 07:36PM

did we miss something
http://scifiwire.com/2009/01/battlestar-galactica-premiere-will-run-3-12-minutes-long.php

its on sky tonight anywhere isn't it?

noodler · 20-01-2009 11:40PM

lostexpectation wrote: »

is ellen tigh's 6, the femme fatale using sex to infiltrate earth

That is a good shout. To be honest we never found out how Baltar survived the Nuke on Caprica when the Six that was with him did not. I am thinking there must be loads of people/cylons capable of reviving.

I still want to know exactly what the Six in Baltar's head and vice-versa is all about(one of the season4 outtakes shows her leaving Baltar and telling him he doesn't need her anymore).

Does anyone have any suspicions about Gaeta after the scene with Dee? I thought he was acting kind of strange and she gave him a good stare just before she left? Especially after the shady goings-on in Face of the Enemy.

Excellent episode. Whoever the final Cylon had been we would have been disappointed-I personally had already thought of about a zillion possible scenarios and couldn't be surprised.

The other theories here are kind of complex and its too late for me to consider them seriously!

I can't wait and yes Dee is by far the hottest (that dress when Billy was killed!).

Gurgle · 20-01-2009 11:52PM

Calibos wrote: »

Human/skin jobs making the same mistakes as the last gen and developing robotic AI which inevitably turn against them

I'm thinking the 'same mistake' isn't developing AIs but keeping them as slaves. They're heavy on the moral lessons throughout, but they're more subtle now than in series 1.

As for Balter surviving Caprica's destruction,

Starbuck's body

etc, my guess is:

The survivors of

that Earth's destruction (i.e. 13th Colony skinjobs)

are still out there, hidden from everyone and they have a soulcatcher ship that works on natural humans. They bring back the people who are part of their longterm gameplan.

Vokes · 20-01-2009 11:53PM

lostexpectation wrote: »

did we miss something
http://scifiwire.com/2009/01/battlestar-galactica-premiere-will-run-3-12-minutes-long.php

Nope, we didnt. Just the Ellen stuff was left out of preview screenigs for the press.

MOH · 21-01-2009 01:39AM

Overheal wrote: »

The way Ellen said it, it seemed more like the Five were responsible for the creation of Cylon Resurrection. Or at the very least, Ellen was.

I took it that whoever was responsible for it, she was referring to the fact that resurrection was now possible. Heck, maybe that's all skin jobs are - replacement bodies for people (ie originally human people) to download into.

The 'revealed four' seem to have been boxed somewhere for the guts of 200 years for some reason.

If that's the case, and it's still functioning, it explains Starbuck's resurrection too. Though not how she ended up in an identical viper.

sioda wrote: »

Anyone notice that we did not see anyone else but Ellen on the planet flashbacks.

Dont think she is the last cylon.

Feel that the whole planet is a ressurection hub for all on it till it got nuked.

Cant wait till next week

I just think Tigh wants her to be the last Cylon, to see her again. No evidence that she actually is. Anyway, even if she was a Cylon, he already was reborn with her. She's gone now.

Overheal wrote: »

Im sure all will be explained. One thing im convinced of though is the planet was razed one way or the other through nuclear bombardment, and there was once civilization there, hence the radiation.

Somehow though I agree GY, and I get the sneaky suspicion we have not seen the last of Dee. Theres probably something very special about Earth in that regard...

GuanYin wrote: »

Was something about the way she reacted to the jax on earth and then her panic attack and the little ritual before she picked up the gun.

It seemed more to me than just despair and her character was supposed to be a strong female type, she was very no-nonsense til then.

I wonder if she had a flashback like the other did.

EDIT- regarding only 9 episodes. I *believe* some of the last episodes are extra-long. Someone suggested the 2part finale will be three hours (not sure if that is with or without commercials)

Something happened to her when she started picking up the jacks, as if she was triggered. If there's some means of resurrection on the planet, maybe she shot herself to get out of there and back to Cavill, to lead him there. Why? no idea, beyond some kind of triggering.

DirkVoodoo · 21-01-2009 01:46AM

I liked it a lot. regarding Dualla, Ron Moore had this to say:

That felt really important. If they’re going to get to Earth and Earth is ashes, that felt like it has to have a huge impact on all these characters. There had to be a cost. There had to be a price somebody paid for that discovery. Not everybody could take that. Not everyone could just say, “OK, that didn’t work out, let’s go on to next week’s episode.”

It felt like somebody would just say, “No, I’m done. I just want to find a little moment of time where I can feel good about myself one last time, then I’m finished with this long nightmare.” And that seemed like that would be Dualla.

So it makes sense, the cost of getting to earth was too much for some to bear and for that real emotional resonance with the audience, you have to kill of a familiar character. It's better than Voyager anyway, I mean how many times did Janeway throw away a route home to save some space moss and the crew were just like "thats ok, i dont mind, another 70 years in space never seeing my family again suits me".

Reading the wiki, Dualla's father never supported her joining the colonial fleet and the last time they spoke was an argument before the cylon attack. So obviously she was carrying a lot of emotional baggage and when her final bit of hope is stripped from her for finding a new life, she snaps.

I have a feeling the last few episodes might get even darker in tone.

BSG 2003 S4E11 - "Sometimes a Great Notion" **FRACKING SPOILERS**

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BSG 2003 S4E11 - "Sometimes a Great Notion" FRACKING SPOILERS