BSG 2003 S4E11 - "Sometimes a Great Notion" **FRACKING SPOILERS**

Vokes

Still not convinced it's our Earth.

Tristram

Danger conclusions! Beware hurdles!

MisterAnarchy

Vokes wrote: »

Still not convinced it's our Earth.

Aaron Douglas commented on this last year.

It isnt our earth

Fine return for the show,some good drama,good explanations and some over the top stuff.
Adama breaking down was cringeworthy.
Also the burial discovery was a bit ridiculous.
They analysed over 250 skeletons in 2 days and they were all Cylon ?
How did they do this may I ask seeing as Baltars cylon detector was binned ?
To be honest at this stage I cant see any difference between cylon and human ,the writers havent explained the differences between them.
Apart from that is was a fine episode,looking forward to next week.

Goodshape

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

They analysed over 250 skeletons in 2 days and they were all Cylon ?
How did they do this may I ask seeing as Baltars cylon detector was binned ?

The Cylons could have helped out there. I'm sure they can tell their own.

To be honest at this stage I cant see any difference between cylon and human ,the writers havent explained the differences between them.

True, not much difference between them - but in the beginning they were thought to be little more than programmed machines... we've only learnt otherwise throughout the course of the series. So not really sure what the problem is

ixoy

Wow, Dee really didn't want to have a second date with Apollo

Overheal

Goodshape wrote: »

The Cylons could have helped out there. I'm sure they can tell their own.

"Using our protocols, the results are conclusive."

sioda

Anyone notice that we did not see anyone else but Ellen on the planet flashbacks.

Dont think she is the last cylon.

Feel that the whole planet is a ressurection hub for all on it till it got nuked.

Cant wait till next week

Biggins

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Aaron Douglas commented on this last year.

It isnt our earth

It this is true, then following on from that, anyone (or thing) living on that planet will be cylon related.

With Ellen there with the wall/building on top of her, that means its a damn good chance she is the fifth.

"And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption (forgiveness for betrayal?) that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering"

Baltar

Starbuck was/is supposed to be the harbinger of death - to that planet or to all in general? Could she have in fact brought back a germ (or something) to that planet which is so deadly that some cylons nuked their own planet - killing many of their own - but only to protect the rest, the vast majority others that might be out there further beyond their then planet!

Questions, questions...

O' and remember, its already been stated (Ronald D Moore) that the final cylon is NOT in the following picture.
See big article in SFX mag - dated: Feb' 2009



Other hints...



See also: http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20169703,00.html

spooydermot

I honestly don't think there is going to be a time travel element to it, it's just so 'not BSG'. Although maybe I just don't want it to be time travel, I think it's one of the lasiest plot devices going (i.e where the over-all plot doesn't hinge on time travel like Quantum Leap for example)

As for the 'starbuck skeleton' - could this be her mother? Even without somekind of time-travel wishy-woo, and bearing in mind that we only know 3 numbers from the recovered tail fin of the craft.

I'm not convinced that we have seen the last of Dee tbh, was that 'Amazing Grace' she was humming before she shot herself? (I've only watched the ep once and I thought thats what it was, I stand to be corrected)

Also I wonder how Bob Dylan feels about his song being implicated in so many deaths?

Biggins

spooydermot wrote: »

Also I wonder how Bob Dylan feels about his song being implicated in so many deaths?

From the royalties - I'd say his family is pleased! :pac:

spooydermot

Biggins wrote: »

From the royalties - I'd say his family is pleased! :pac:

or indeed he himself is pleased, he is still alive after all!

*gasp* - alive and a cylon! :eek:

Calibos

Starbuck had nothing to do with the devastation on this planet. They dated it in the episode to happening 2000 years ago. Karas wreckage went through the wormhole thingie in the gas giant planet atmosphere and landed here a few months ago. Hence the months worth of decomposition.

It is Kara, it is not her mother. She was resurrected with the same technology as the final 5 or by the "Earth" Cylon equivelent of the hybrids. God orchestrating all this, we will discover is an ancient last gen cylon hybrid.

My theory was reasonably close. This has happened before and will happen again does indeed refer to Human/skin jobs making the same mistakes as the last gen and developing robotic AI which inevitably turn against them and develope their own skinjobs.

Slapping my hand on my forehead with the 13th tribe being last gen skinjobs though. Should have thought of that. If anyone remembers my original theory was that Earth is the birthplace of the real humanity because of the fossil record here. First technological civilisation on earth are the atlanteans who develop AI/Cylons who rebel. Atlanteans flee earth leaving behind the seeds of greco/roman mythology and taking with them their greco/roman gods to kobol and then on to the colonies. Atlanteans find Kobol and settle and maybe through war or disease lose some of their technology and lose the lessons of the past. Upon reaquiring technology the kobolians make the same mistake as their ancestors the atlanteans and develope AI/Cylons again causing another rebellion and having to flee.

Where my theory diverges is I assumed that from our colonial perspective, 12 tribes of kobolian/atlantean/real humans went on to form the colonies further into deep space while one human tribe the 13th decided to try and find their ancestral mythical atlantean home called earth. According to this episode however, the war on kobol ravaged the planet and the humans went off in one direction to form the colonies and the 13th were actually that gens AI/Cylon skinjobs.

Note that when they discuss the Centurion head and 'human' skeletons in the lab, someone says that the 13th tribe developed their own cylons and the same thing happened to them as us. Then Balterbasically says, not quite, these 'humans' are skinjobs. The 13th tribe were cyclons and they left kobol found this planet and 'called' it earth. Quite telling that he didn't just say, "left kobol and found earth".

In other words the kobolian gen cylon skinjobs read their human creators mythology and decided to try and find this mythical place called earth while the 12 human tribes didn't bother because it was all religious fairytales and nonsense to their advanced modern minds but as we know skinjobs are even more prone to religious belief than real humans. The 13th tribe skinjobs took the myths as gospel pardon the pun.

Of course it turns out there is an ancestral atlantean/kobolean homeworld called earth but the 13th tribe skinjobs didn't find it. This "Earth" is probably their version of New Caprica.

Real earth still awaits discovery by the colonials but we can be assured that its far in our future. IE they wont arrive in medieval times or in the 80's or even the present day. Remember the fossil record proves earth is the birthplace of the real humanity. Atlantis and greco/Roman civilisation is only just over 2000 years in our own past. The atlanteans spent a thousand years or so on kobol and from Battlestar Galactica mythology we know that the kobolians left kobol and formed the colonies about 2000 years before the galactican present day. Thats 3000 years at least. So they can't arrive back at the real earth till the year 3000 if you get me.

Final titbit. Anders was a popstar!! "I think I used to actually play this song" Tori says, "You played it for all of us!"

Overheal

Biggins wrote: »

Starbuck was/is supposed to be the harbinger of death - to that planet or to all in general? Could she have in fact brought back a germ (or something) to that planet which is so deadly that some cylons nuked their own planet - killing many of their own - but only to protect the rest, the vast majority others that might be out there further beyond their then planet!

Damn the Common Cold :mad:

pirelli

Great episode, So who is the fifth cylon ( it cannot be Tigh's wife...).
Starbuck must be from two dimensions of time.




Torrents:
The quality of the the torrent is excellent but the audio isn't working.

GuanYin

I wonder. When Ellen says we'll be reborn, is she speaking from a religious-metaphyical point of view or is she referring to technology of some sort. If so, could it still be in place, hence Starbuck corpse when she's quite obviously alive. Could this mean Dee returns?

In fact, could Ellen have intended that the 5 cylons be reborn (because remember their apocalypse happened 2000 years ago) but in fact many from Earth were reborn and are within the colonies (if not the entire colonial population).

Regarding Earth, by guess is that it is Earth but it is pre-mankind earth.

I do have reservations about a nuclear event wiping out an entire planet that has space fairing capability. No matter how bad the war was, it would be very difficult to wipe everyone out. Surely there were escapees/survivors.

Overheal

Im sure all will be explained. One thing im convinced of though is the planet was razed one way or the other through nuclear bombardment, and there was once civilization there, hence the radiation.

Somehow though I agree GY, and I get the sneaky suspicion we have not seen the last of Dee. Theres probably something very special about Earth in that regard...

_CreeD_

Why are so many things that were stated clearly being ignored and random theories being spouted in their place?

What are considered Cyclon Skin jobs and Humans warred on Kobol and went there separate ways. Now who created who is debatable. This has been obvious since season 1. Though reasons were not given the lack of detailed history, the massacred on Cobol, the constant references to it all happenning again etc. made it obvious that one or other side was Cyclon (or the equivalent of the day)

The 5 DID NOT cause the destruction of that planet as you can clearly see they were ordinary citizaens of it before the apocalypse. It was implied by the intro flashback to Cavill saying that the 6's did not know what they had unleashed when they gave the Centurions more autonomy added to the find of full metal cyclons that the war was between skin jobs and metal.

Ellen IS (was) the 5th Cylon. It's right there, crystal clear. Now how exactly and why those 5 where resurrected I guess we'll find out soon enough. We really need to see the connection between those characters pre-apocalypse. Maybe it was a govt. project.

The process that recreated those 5 also recreated Starbuck. Maybe there is some entity still controlling it or maybe it's now just automatic. I'm guessing a controlling entity.
We also do not know what happened to the Metal cylons that were left.

The 5 also seem to age, they have no memories of the last 2000 years so there is a high likelihood that there have been multiple copies over the years, without any memory download. This would allow for the return of Ellen's character (possibly as that controlling entity). The only real reason to make the 5th a known but seemingly dead character would be if you plan for a return imho.


No germs, no time travel, no conspiracies by the 5 to end their own planet. Still a lot of questions though and only 9 episodes left the answer them

GuanYin

Overheal wrote: »

Somehow though I agree GY, and I get the sneaky suspicion we have not seen the last of Dee. Theres probably something very special about Earth in that regard...

Was something about the way she reacted to the jax on earth and then her panic attack and the little ritual before she picked up the gun.

It seemed more to me than just despair and her character was supposed to be a strong female type, she was very no-nonsense til then.

I wonder if she had a flashback like the other did.

EDIT- regarding only 9 episodes. I *believe* some of the last episodes are extra-long. Someone suggested the 2part finale will be three hours (not sure if that is with or without commercials)

GuanYin

Haha I was just watching scifi channel and

The actress who playes Dee was interviewed and talked about how she guessed the death was coming because she only got 13 episodes in her contract and how sad she was to miss the rest of the season and the wrap party..... looks like Dee is gone for good.

sceptre

_CreeD_ wrote: »

This would allow for the return of Ellen's character (possibly as that controlling entity). The only real reason to make the 5th a known but seemingly dead character would be if you plan for a return imho.

Apparently she's in seven of the last nine episodes, though I can't remember where I read that

Cina

That was brilliant for the most part.

I thought the Adama - Tigh confrontation was ruined by the amount of 'fracks' though. It mades me cringe whenever I hear crap like that, and gods-dammit.

Guess the writers didn't take the advice of all the fans who wanted it kicked out of the show.

jor el

Cina wrote: »

I thought the Adama - Tigh confrontation was ruined by the amount of 'fracks' though. It mades me cringe whenever I hear crap like that, and gods-dammit.

Guess the writers didn't take the advice of all the fans who wanted it kicked out of the show.

Would it be better if they went around saying "Gosh darn it, another Cylon attack, oh fooey, it's all gone to crud"? BSG universe is different to ours. They don't say fuck, they say frak, they don't say god, they say gods. I for one, never want that to change.

pirelli wrote:

Great episode, So who is the fifth cylon ( it cannot be Tigh's wife...).

It's Ellen Tigh. It would make no sense at all for it not to be her. The other 3 of the five had flashbacks, where they realised they were on this planet before. They also knew each other, as Tori remembered that Anders played "us". Tigh was the only one not given a flash back, until he was in the water at the end, and came close to the place where he and Ellen had died the first time. Then his memories returned, and he remembered Ellen.

The big question now is, how exactly does their resurrection work, and where is the equipment? Also, did it bring Starbuck back? That would seem likely, since she is dead. I wonder why Leoban walked away from her when he realised it? Is he afraid of what this means, that a non-Cylon has resurrected?

Sherifu

_CreeD_ wrote: »

Why are so many things that were stated clearly being ignored and random theories being spouted in their place?

It's fun to speculate.

DeepBlue

GuanYin wrote: »

EDIT- regarding only 9 episodes. I *believe* some of the last episodes are extra-long. Someone suggested the 2part finale will be three hours (not sure if that is with or without commercials)

I wonder if some of the questions will be left unanswered and perhaps covered in the TV movie The Plan after the series finishes .

Leprachaun

Calibos wrote: »

Final titbit. Anders was a popstar!! "I think I used to actually play this song" Tori says, "You played it for all of us!"

Maybe Jimi Hendrix is a cylon?

jor el

jor el wrote: »

Would it be better if they went around saying "Gosh darn it, another Cylon attack, oh fooey, it's all gone to crud"? BSG universe is different to ours. They don't say fuck, they say frak, they don't say god, they say gods. I for one, never want that to change.

Yup, plus you notice things like Baltar saying god-dammit a lot more when the others are all saying gods-dammit.

Really enjoyed the episode. I hope we see more of the Earth-cylons.

robby^5

Leprachaun wrote: »

Maybe Jimi Hendrix is a cylon?

Wouldn't it be Bob Dylan since it's his song?

Anyway, absolutely superb episode cant fault it at all except for the moment where I felt like I was on the precipice of a series-long re-romance between Lee and Dee... that ended abruptly, didn't see that one coming whatsoever.

I loved how when Adama was walking to Tighs room the absolute breakdown of society he walked through, really gave a sense of how bad the fleet took the news about earth.

Brilliant episode, I really hope they keep this up.

Calibos

Leprachaun wrote: »

Maybe Jimi Hendrix is a cylon?

Yeah, on second thoughts, maybe I wouldn't go so far as to say popstar. Maybe a scientist like the other final 5 who was an amatuer song writer who played this song he wrote to the others on their time off from designing the resurrection technology. Hopefully though he didn't write it but heard it himself in a signal he discovered during his SETI research.

I'll still be abit annoyed that they used a real earth song if it had no significance. Using it as incidental music would have been fine, ie as just cool theme music for the Ionian Nebula battle. However using one of 'our' songs in the galactica universe so to speak where characters hear it..... It better be connected to our earth!!

GuanYin

DeepBlue wrote: »

I wonder if some of the questions will be left unanswered and perhaps covered in the TV movie The Plan after the series finishes .

I think the Plan is set between series 3 and 4.

Vokes

Nahh, its set during the miniseries events (the attack on the 12 colonies and the exodus) again but from the Cylon perspective.