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BSG 2003 S4E11 - "Sometimes a Great Notion" **FRACKING SPOILERS**
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17-01-2009 2:50am#1
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Just watched it there - thought it was a great episode. Will be interesting to find out whats going on withStarbuck- was a nice bit of mis-direction there before we find out more at the end of the episode.
Loved the flashbacks from Tyrell and Tigh showing their previous lives and at least we now know who the fifth is
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Very good episodeAnd I was right about the 13th Tribe and the current Humans....yes I am that petty I had to bring it up again after all these years
And...er....why are putting spoiler tags in a thread that A. Obviously will have them, and B. Already states there are spoilers? Anyone who reads them unawares after that is just achieving a plot-line Darwin award.0 -
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When i read the spoilers i was completely underrwhelmed but after seeing the ep im wll impressed. I thought the fifth was handled great, theyve set up a whole new story there that should be really enjoyable.
why would you read the spoilers before seeing the episode? That would totally ruin it.
not using spoiler tags as the thread title says spoilers...
As for the 5th,didn't think they would reveal it so soon,bit surprised it is Ellen,but not disappointed. She was always a big candidate. And now it sets up a really interesting story of how they were reborn. Of what actually happened on earth. The 13th tribe were Cylons? How?
As for Starbuck,what the hell was that about? How is she alive if that was her in the Viper.what is she? and why didn't see go to D'Anna and ask if she was a Cylon. Why hasn't anyone asked her who the last Cylon is,it doesn't make a huge difference now.
Also is ellen actually dead or will we see her again? she was killed and we don't know if the final 5 can come back.
also Dee as well
i could see she was headed for a breakdown but I didn't think they would kill her off like that so quickly.
They answered huge questions but there are still so many left to be answered.0 -
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why would you read the spoilers before seeing the episode? That would totally ruin it.
I know, i couldn't help myself, i had waited long enough. But i still enjoyed it.
Also is ellen actually dead or will we see her again? she was killed and we don't know if the final 5 can come back.
also Dee as well i could see she was headed for a breakdown but I didn't think they would kill her off like that so quickly.
They answered huge questions but there are still so many left to be answered.
I hope we get to see ellen again. Too many flashbacks and this could turn into lost. Yeah the Dee story shocked me, didn't see that coming at all. I thought it was a very real reaction though.0 -
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Hehheh -- when Lee and Dee (jesus, even their names are annoying!) were having there wee moment and her humming away to herself like a love struck 14 year old, I honestly really did think to myself "you know, I could seriously do without this story-line and these two annoying wet blankets. Here's hoping the two of them get sucked out a gods damn airlock.."
And two seconds later... BAM! :eek:. Did NOT expect that.
One out of two ain't bad
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You old romanticHehheh -- when Lee and Dee (jesus, even their names are annoying!) were having there wee moment and her humming away to herself like a love struck 14 year old, I honestly really did think to myself "you know, I could seriously do without this story-line and these two annoying wet blankets. Here's hoping the two of them get sucked out a gods damn airlock.."
And two seconds later... BAM! :eek:. Did NOT expect that.
One out of two ain't bad 0 -
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I guess the word Cylon was just another name for Earthling (i.e. us) - and these Cylons aren't that much different from the Colonials dna-wise. So some kind of Terminator-armageddon-scenario befell them with some AI they were experienting which turned on them.As for the 5th,didn't think they would reveal it so soon,bit surprised it is Ellen,but not disappointed. She was always a big candidate. And now it sets up a really interesting story of how they were reborn. Of what actually happened on earth. The 13th tribe were Cylons? How?
And then the Colonials, who had forgotten the original meaning of the word Cylon, repeated the mistake with AI (and called them Cylons).
Of course, I have no idea how the 4 old Cylons (Tigh, Tori, Anders, Tyrol) or Starbuck's timetravel or Ellen's reveal fits in with all that at all
"Frak Earth" :pac:0 -
That was awesome, I can't really say much more than what has been said already... I'm not entirely sure the Ellen reveal is all that it seems and that she is indeed the fifth, but we'll see. Brilliant throughout, painted a picture of utter desperation amongst the fleet so vividly - can't wait for next week or the next 9 episodes to be exact. 0
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The Cylons could have helped out there. I'm sure they can tell their own.MisterAnarchy wrote: »They analysed over 250 skeletons in 2 days and they were all Cylon ?
How did they do this may I ask seeing as Baltars cylon detector was binned ?
True, not much difference between them - but in the beginning they were thought to be little more than programmed machines... we've only learnt otherwise throughout the course of the series. So not really sure what the problem isTo be honest at this stage I cant see any difference between cylon and human ,the writers havent explained the differences between them. 0 -
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MisterAnarchy wrote: »Aaron Douglas commented on this last year.It isnt our earth
It this is true, then following on from that, anyone (or thing) living on that planet will be cylon related.With Ellen there with the wall/building on top of her, that means its a damn good chance she is the fifth."And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption (forgiveness for betrayal?) that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering"
Baltar
Starbuck was/is supposed to be the harbinger of death - to that planet or to all in general? Could she have in fact brought back a germ (or something) to that planet which is so deadly that some cylons nuked their own planet - killing many of their own - but only to protect the rest, the vast majority others that might be out there further beyond their then planet!
Questions, questions...
O' and remember, its already been stated (Ronald D Moore) that the final cylon is NOT in the following picture.
See big article in SFX mag - dated: Feb' 2009
Other hints...
See also: http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20169703,00.html0 -
I honestly don't think there is going to be a time travel element to it, it's just so 'not BSG'. Although maybe I just don't want it to be time travel, I think it's one of the lasiest plot devices going (i.e where the over-all plot doesn't hinge on time travel like Quantum Leap for example)As for the 'starbuck skeleton' - could this be her mother? Even without somekind of time-travel wishy-woo, and bearing in mind that we only know 3 numbers from the recovered tail fin of the craft.
I'm not convinced that we have seen the last of Dee tbh, was that 'Amazing Grace' she was humming before she shot herself? (I've only watched the ep once and I thought thats what it was, I stand to be corrected)
Also I wonder how Bob Dylan feels about his song being implicated in so many deaths? 0 -
spooydermot wrote: »Also I wonder how Bob Dylan feels about his song being implicated in so many deaths?
From the royalties - I'd say his family is pleased! :pac:0 -
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Starbuck had nothing to do with the devastation on this planet. They dated it in the episode to happening 2000 years ago. Karas wreckage went through the wormhole thingie in the gas giant planet atmosphere and landed here a few months ago. Hence the months worth of decomposition.
It is Kara, it is not her mother. She was resurrected with the same technology as the final 5 or by the "Earth" Cylon equivelent of the hybrids. God orchestrating all this, we will discover is an ancient last gen cylon hybrid.
My theory was reasonably close. This has happened before and will happen again does indeed refer to Human/skin jobs making the same mistakes as the last gen and developing robotic AI which inevitably turn against them and develope their own skinjobs.
Slapping my hand on my forehead with the 13th tribe being last gen skinjobs though. Should have thought of that. If anyone remembers my original theory was that Earth is the birthplace of the real humanity because of the fossil record here. First technological civilisation on earth are the atlanteans who develop AI/Cylons who rebel. Atlanteans flee earth leaving behind the seeds of greco/roman mythology and taking with them their greco/roman gods to kobol and then on to the colonies. Atlanteans find Kobol and settle and maybe through war or disease lose some of their technology and lose the lessons of the past. Upon reaquiring technology the kobolians make the same mistake as their ancestors the atlanteans and develope AI/Cylons again causing another rebellion and having to flee.
Where my theory diverges is I assumed that from our colonial perspective, 12 tribes of kobolian/atlantean/real humans went on to form the colonies further into deep space while one human tribe the 13th decided to try and find their ancestral mythical atlantean home called earth. According to this episode however, the war on kobol ravaged the planet and the humans went off in one direction to form the colonies and the 13th were actually that gens AI/Cylon skinjobs.
Note that when they discuss the Centurion head and 'human' skeletons in the lab, someone says that the 13th tribe developed their own cylons and the same thing happened to them as us. Then Balterbasically says, not quite, these 'humans' are skinjobs. The 13th tribe were cyclons and they left kobol found this planet and 'called' it earth. Quite telling that he didn't just say, "left kobol and found earth".
In other words the kobolian gen cylon skinjobs read their human creators mythology and decided to try and find this mythical place called earth while the 12 human tribes didn't bother because it was all religious fairytales and nonsense to their advanced modern minds but as we know skinjobs are even more prone to religious belief than real humans. The 13th tribe skinjobs took the myths as gospel pardon the pun.
Of course it turns out there is an ancestral atlantean/kobolean homeworld called earth but the 13th tribe skinjobs didn't find it. This "Earth" is probably their version of New Caprica.
Real earth still awaits discovery by the colonials but we can be assured that its far in our future. IE they wont arrive in medieval times or in the 80's or even the present day. Remember the fossil record proves earth is the birthplace of the real humanity. Atlantis and greco/Roman civilisation is only just over 2000 years in our own past. The atlanteans spent a thousand years or so on kobol and from Battlestar Galactica mythology we know that the kobolians left kobol and formed the colonies about 2000 years before the galactican present day. Thats 3000 years at least. So they can't arrive back at the real earth till the year 3000 if you get me.
Final titbit. Anders was a popstar!! "I think I used to actually play this song" Tori says, "You played it for all of us!"0 -
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Why are so many things that were stated clearly being ignored and random theories being spouted in their place?
What are considered Cyclon Skin jobs and Humans warred on Kobol and went there separate ways. Now who created who is debatable. This has been obvious since season 1. Though reasons were not given the lack of detailed history, the massacred on Cobol, the constant references to it all happenning again etc. made it obvious that one or other side was Cyclon (or the equivalent of the day)
The 5 DID NOT cause the destruction of that planet as you can clearly see they were ordinary citizaens of it before the apocalypse. It was implied by the intro flashback to Cavill saying that the 6's did not know what they had unleashed when they gave the Centurions more autonomy added to the find of full metal cyclons that the war was between skin jobs and metal.
Ellen IS (was) the 5th Cylon. It's right there, crystal clear. Now how exactly and why those 5 where resurrected I guess we'll find out soon enough. We really need to see the connection between those characters pre-apocalypse. Maybe it was a govt. project.
The process that recreated those 5 also recreated Starbuck. Maybe there is some entity still controlling it or maybe it's now just automatic. I'm guessing a controlling entity.
We also do not know what happened to the Metal cylons that were left.
The 5 also seem to age, they have no memories of the last 2000 years so there is a high likelihood that there have been multiple copies over the years, without any memory download. This would allow for the return of Ellen's character (possibly as that controlling entity). The only real reason to make the 5th a known but seemingly dead character would be if you plan for a return imho.
No germs, no time travel, no conspiracies by the 5 to end their own planet. Still a lot of questions though and only 9 episodes left the answer them 0 -
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