Supplying own parts for service

blackiebest · 17-01-2009 10:16PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

In the case of the lad here with the Camper Van, 800 Euro for a clutch was someone trying to put a saddle on him. If he went to a decent indy, he would have chased down the part number for this clutch and got it for him at under 200 Euro.

Bullsh1t, did you not read the post? It was €800+ for the clutch kit for a Subaru forester and I asked the owner of the dealership could I stay for the swap as I like to learn more about my car, have a good look at it when it is up on the ramp and ensure i am happy with all that was done. I also put him on to a client who bought the new diesel forester 09', we are friends. Now i know the mechanic that will work on the car and I am sure he would tell me if he was not happy. You never answered how much you would source a clutch for a forester? How much you would charge for the swap?

I had no issue with you when I posted first here, but you automatically and delibrately mis quoted me and assumed that I was a difficult customer when the only thing I look for is value for money. Your attitude reflects your business skills and I am sure all the customers are gobsh1tes in your opinion.

The point I made in the posts is that this country is a rip off and its mentality like yours that makes it so, I have no doubt that you are probably a good mechanic which is a good thing as I doubt you would get anywhere if you came out from under the car!

Darragh29 · 17-01-2009 10:25PM

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

An oil and fuel air oil filter change and a quick check up is what most garages would constitute a service and it can defo be done in 20 minutes taking your time.

An oil change is an oil change, a service is something that if done properly, takes two hours. If you bring your car in to me for a service and unknown to me, you have an NCT next and I just change the oil and charge you 80 Euro and tell you that I've serviced the car, who do you think will be getting it in the neck the following week when your car fails the NCT for a worn ball joint, a lambda emissions problem, a rear axle brake imbalance and one misaligned headlamp???

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

I can assure that I can change a brake caliper in less than 10 minutes with new pads and bleed per wheel.

Yes, one brake caliper, but as I said, if you are changing a caliper, it is usually because one that wheel, the pads and discs are completely worn, which means replacing pads & discs on two wheels and one brake caliper. If you feel that this can be done in 10 minutes, please post a video of same up here and I'll believe it. Until then, I won't because I've done this enough times to know that this isn't a realistic time for this task.

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

This I agree with you, it is most annoying to have someone stood over your shoulder.

This wouldn't happen in most professional garages because it wouldn't be tolerated.

Darragh29 · 17-01-2009 10:28PM

blackiebest wrote: »

Darragh, if you are refering to my post then you are misquoting me, badly. Read the post. In your profession there are at least the same proportion of crap lazy and internet illiterate mechanics as there would be in any profession. I will be paying almost €65 per hour inc VAT and as I stated I like to learn, i want to have a good look under my car and I want to make sure the job is executed properly.
You seem to think that because you are a mechanic you know best at all times, including sourcing parts. How much would you have charged me for my clutch kit? HAve you ever changed one on a 01' s turbo? If so how much did you charge?

I think that all the money you used to buy parts in the last month (your customers money presumably) was not spent as cost effectively as it could have been. I have NO issue with you or your mark-up on parts, so long as they are bought for the best possible price in the first place. Maybe I am wrong but it is my experience that going into the local parts supplier without checking online first is stupid at best. The difference as exampled in my first post highlights this.

An LuK OEM replacement clutch kit for your car would not cost more than 250 Euro. Whoever ws quoting you 820 Euro for this was simply trying to rob you.

This statement is a complete contradiction:

I will be paying almost €65 per hour inc VAT and as I stated I like to learn, i want to have a good look under my car and I want to make sure the job is executed properly.

If you don't know how to do this task, then you are hardly in a position to observe whether or not the task is being "executed properly" as you put it, or otherwise, are you???

This is the problem with the industry, too many customers are let away with murder with stupid and rediculous requests and the whole industry suffers as a consequence because people by their nature, will take one liberty after another. If you want to learn how to replace a clutch, you in all reality cannot expect any garage to include the task of training you how to do this task, in their hourly charge for labour. Insofar as I am a mechanic and I know best, that is true, and that is what I charge for.

The market tends to look after itself, you just got one stupid price for a clutch replacement and didn't shop around. If you shopped around, you would have found much better prices. I never heard of anyone charging 820 Euro for a clutch kit.

It simply isn't open to garages to get parts online, if someone comes to me for a clutch replacement, they want the car back the same day, not to be waiting around for 2 weeks for parts to come in from wherever.

LoveDucati2 · 17-01-2009 10:34PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

An oil change is an oil change, a service is something that if done properly, takes two hours. If you bring your car in to me for a service and unknown to me, you have an NCT next

2 hours is a rip off,

Anyone leaving their car in for a service before the NCT would tell you

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

An oil and fuel, air, oil filter change and a quick check up (washer bottle top up, coolant, light bulbs, wipers) is what most garages would constitute a service, and it can defo be done in 20 minutes taking your time.

Do you agree or disagree

Darragh29 wrote: »

Yes, one brake caliper,

so you agree

Darragh29 wrote: »

If you feel that this can be done in 10 minutes, please post a video of same up here and I'll believe it. Until then, I won't

You do not agree?, but you just said ....

Darragh29 · 17-01-2009 10:58PM

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

2 hours is a rip off,

Anyone leaving their car in for a service before the NCT would tell you

I wish. What some people will do is deliberately NOT mention their upcoming NCT, send their car in for the NCT, knowing that you serviced it last week and if they fail, they will be back saying that you were not diligent in servicing it and then they'll expect you to pay for whatever it failed for, because after all, "you didn't service it properly!"...

A proper car service takes two hours, that's the reality of the situation whether you want to accept it or not.

Give me one instance of when you would be replacing a seized brake caliper without also replacing brake discs and pads.

If it only takes you ten minutes to replace a brake caliper and 20 minutes to service a car, why are you not doing these tasks yourself???

blackiebest · 17-01-2009 11:08PM

For the third time Darragh, how much would you charge to change a clutch on a Subaru Forester?

This is what I paid for my clutch;

Thank you for your online order.

Date : 15 Jan 2009 - 13:36
Order ID : 7634650

Payment by Credit card

Product : Quantity : Price
LUK-623304960 : 1 : 111.39

Subtotal : 111.39
Delivery : 9.95
Tax VAT : 18.20
TOTAL : 139.54

Prices above in Stg. Please anyone out there who wants info PM me.

I have changed a clutch before, in a 110 Defender and thoroughly enjoyec the experience and look forward to doing the Subaru with Mick, in the dealership. The €800 was not a saddle job, the dealer would have had bugger all mark up on it!

Because you wont use the internet and just pay whatever price the part shop gives you, then mark it up, I assume at least 35% and then 6 hours it @ your rate, refuse me the liberty to source my own parts then you would never get my business. I know your quoted €250 is before your admitted mark up, well I dont want to pay the likes of you € 300 for a part I can buy delivered to my home as above.

The problem with the industry is best displayed by you and your arrogance, misquoting and assuming. I put 40k through that dealership and have the relationship that I can enjoy swapping out the clutch, learn more about my car and broaden my limited mechanic experience.

LoveDucati2 · 17-01-2009 11:20PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

I wish. What some people will do is deliberately NOT mention their upcoming NCT

Sorry mate this makes no sense

Darragh29 wrote: »

A proper car service takes two hours, that's the reality of the situation whether you want to accept it or not.

How, please enlighten us

Darragh29 wrote: »

Give me one instance of when you would be replacing a seized brake caliper without also replacing brake discs and pads.

If there was no damage to Disc or to pads. Has happened before will happen again. It only takes me ten minutes to replace a brake caliper and pads. Its not rocket science.

Darragh29 wrote: »

If it only takes you ten minutes to replace a brake caliper and 20 minutes to service a car, why are you not doing these tasks yourself???

I am a mechanic, but I work as an Accountant, I have a local garage who charge me €20 per half hour and if I fancy working on my own car they let me too.

Darragh29 · 17-01-2009 11:22PM

blackiebest wrote: »

For the third time Darragh, how much would you charge to change a clutch on a Subaru Forester?

This is what I paid for my clutch;

Thank you for your online order.

Date : 15 Jan 2009 - 13:36
Order ID : 7634650

Payment by Credit card

Product : Quantity : Price
LUK-623304960 : 1 : 111.39

Subtotal : 111.39
Delivery : 9.95
Tax VAT : 18.20
TOTAL : 139.54

Prices above in Stg. Please anyone out there who wants info PM me.

I have changed a clutch before, in a 110 Defender and thoroughly enjoyec the experience and look forward to doing the Subaru with Mick, in the dealership. The €800 was not a saddle job, the dealer would have had bugger all mark up on it!

Because you wont use the internet and just pay whatever price the part shop gives you, then mark it up, I assume at least 35% and then 6 hours it @ your rate, refuse me the liberty to source my own parts then you would never get my business. I know your quoted €250 is before your admitted mark up, well I dont want to pay the likes of you € 300 for a part I can buy delivered to my home as above.

The problem with the industry is best displayed by you and your arrogance, misquoting and assuming. I put 40k through that dealership and have the relationship that I can enjoy swapping out the clutch, learn more about my car and broaden my limited mechanic experience.

You are under estimating me for a start because I'll be launching Ireland's first online parts supply website, direct to the customer, on 1st February, as there is clearly a gap in the market for this, which I copped last year. This however doesn't address the issue RIGHT NOW, that this side of 1st February, that if you order online, you will be waiting up to a week to get the parts, which is no use to someone who wants their car back tomorrow with a new clutch in it!

For the second time, while I'm doing up a suggested price for this task, you might explain to me how you are in a position to supervise the work of a fully qualified mechanic??? The problem with the industry is not me, I'm using my innovative ability to bring change to the industry.

There is no problem with you sourcing your own parts, I encourage you to do so, just be sure you can fit them yourself.

Darragh29 · 17-01-2009 11:34PM

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Sorry mate this makes no sense

How, please enlighten us

If there was no damage to Disc or to pads. Has happened before will happen again. It only takes me ten minutes to replace a brake caliper and pads. Its not rocket science.

I am a mechanic, but I work as an Accountant, I have a local garage who charge me €20 per half hour and if I fancy working on my own car they let me too.

If you have a seized brake caliper, you should be changing brake pads & discs, if you are doing the job right. If you are a mechanic and know what you are doing, then you should know better than to be taking short cuts with braking components of all items.

It takes the NCT 45 minutes just to put a car through their process. It easily takes longer to remove service components and re-fit replacement parts.

Anyone "servicing" a car in under 2 hours is taking a short cut, which would appear to be consistent with how you resolve braking problems.

It is obvious that you are not speaking from a position of experience here. When you've run an indy garage, you'll see how people will try to trip you up to get something done for free.

If you are servicing a car, you need to assume that he car will be going for an NCT tomorrow, because there are people out there who will gladly have you service their car in the knowledge that it needs brakes, shocks, or has an emissions problem, say nothing to you about it, the car is NCT'd the next day and then you're the biggest c*nt in the world because you didn't tell them they needed this that or the other (because as per your approach, you only spend 20 minutes under the car), and you will be expected to pay for that work, those parts, and let's not forget the NCT re-test fee!

Unlike you, I have the experience of this. I'm not making this sh*t up, when it comes to cars, people will try anything and it all starts off with, "I'll supply my own parts", or some stupid request like this...

Healyc · 18-01-2009 12:42AM

Darragh29 wrote: »

If you have a seized brake caliper, you should be changing brake pads & discs, if you are doing the job right. If you are a mechanic and know what you are doing, then you should know better than to be taking short cuts with braking components of all items.

It takes the NCT 45 minutes just to put a car through their process. It easily takes longer to remove service components and re-fit replacement parts.

Anyone "servicing" a car in under 2 hours is taking a short cut, which would appear to be consistent with how you resolve braking problems.

It is obvious that you are not speaking from a position of experience here. When you've run an indy garage, you'll see how people will try to trip you up to get something done for free.

If you are servicing a car, you need to assume that he car will be going for an NCT tomorrow, because there are people out there who will gladly have you service their car in the knowledge that it needs brakes, shocks, or has an emissions problem, say nothing to you about it, the car is NCT'd the next day and then you're the biggest c*nt in the world because you didn't tell them they needed this that or the other (because as per your approach, you only spend 20 minutes under the car), and you will be expected to pay for that work, those parts, and let's not forget the NCT re-test fee!

Unlike you, I have the experience of this. I'm not making this sh*t up, when it comes to cars, people will try anything and it all starts off with, "I'll supply my own parts", or some stupid request like this...

After following this thread carefully, i have to totally agree with Darragh29. My views are as follows

Supply your own parts - No, what parts does the ordinary Joe Soap know to get for there cars. There is a lot more service items on todays car than the usual oil/air/pollen/fuel filters & wipers such as crankcase vent filters, auto transmissions filters etc.......

A Service in 20mins - Bullsh1t, changing the oil & filter is not a service. You must carry out all checks and yes Darragh is correct in saying that treat every car like its going for an NCT after you work on it. There is reasons why garages charge 1.5/2hrs labour and one of them is that is the manufacturer says so.

A Caliper in 10mins - Ok this doesnt take long but bleed all the brakes, change pads (and discs if required), carry out a full visual brake check inc the braking axle that was not at fault and then road test. Now do all that in ten mins.

Making sure the work is done correct - Would you seriously like someone over your shoulder looking at you, a person who is unqualified and makes themselves become a nuisance by getting in the way. This would actually lead to mistakes as the mechanic would be distracted by the unqualified nuisance looking at them. If your going to be there at least get your hands dirty and give him a hand.

Parts prices and availability are a disgrace in this country. If i need any geniune Merc parts i just call Isaac Agnews up the north, once its before 10am it will be on the train and in Connolly station at 15.00pm the same day. A fraction of the cost you would pay over the counter down here.

Just my two cents

thetyreman · 18-01-2009 12:55AM

Healyc wrote: »

After following this thread carefully, i have to totally agree with Darragh29. My views are as follows

Supply your own parts - No, what parts does the ordinary Joe Soap know to get for there cars. There is a lot more service items on todays car than the usual oil/air/pollen/fuel filters & wipers such as crankcase vent filters, auto transmissions filters etc.......

A Service in 20mins - Bullsh1t, changing the oil & filter is not a service. You must carry out all checks and yes Darragh is correct in saying that treat every car like its going for an NCT after you work on it. There is reasons why garages charge 1.5/2hrs labour and one of them is that is the manufacturer says so.

A Caliper in 10mins - Ok this doesnt take long but bleed all the brakes, change pads (and discs if required), carry out a full visual brake check inc the braking axle that was not at fault and then road test. Now do all that in ten mins.

Making sure the work is done correct - Would you seriously like someone over your shoulder looking at you, a person who is unqualified and makes themselves become a nuisance by getting in the way. This would actually lead to mistakes as the mechanic would be distracted by the unqualified nuisance looking at them. If your going to be there at least get your hands dirty and give him a hand.

Parts prices and availability are a disgrace in this country. If i need any geniune Merc parts i just call Isaac Agnews up the north, once its before 10am it will be on the train and in Connolly station at 15.00pm the same day. A fraction of the cost you would pay over the counter down here.

Just my two cents

Well said and i agree;;;;
Not to mention the insurance liability a CUSTOMER would be on your garage floor,when your lift locks fail or whatever and he is on yhe flat of his back with a broken neck,then ha can have a very close look at the underbody of his car,Try explaining that one to your insurance company.
If someone wants to have a look under his/her car tell them to go and buy a 2post lift for themselves;;;

Owen · 18-01-2009 12:57AM

If I get broadband from Perliwirelesstelecom in the morning, but my landline is from Eircom, and something goes wrong, it's a horrible horrible mess. Both companies blame each other, and f*ck all gets done.

If you get your own parts for a service, and it goes well, then brilliant. You feel a sense of accomplishment, and you're been a cute hoor. But when (not if) it goes wrong, your Motor Factor, and your Mechanic probably won't want to take the blame, and you'll be in the middle having to shell out again.

People, Darragh is one of the few indy's I would let work on my own car, he's on here telling you like it actually is, with real world experience, as are others who work in the trade. Wouldn't you prefer when something goes wrong with your car to have a definite line of come back, not be stuck between 2 people and neither wants to take the rap? Let your Mechanics buy the parts, because they're the experts. Next thing you know, you'll be going to the Hospital asking can you bring your own aneasthetic.

thetyreman · 18-01-2009 01:10AM

ned78 wrote: »

If I get broadband from Perliwirelesstelecom in the morning, but my landline is from Eircom, and something goes wrong, it's a horrible horrible mess. Both companies blame each other, and f*ck all gets done.

If you get your own parts for a service, and it goes well, then brilliant. You feel a sense of accomplishment, and you're been a cute hoor. But when (not if) it goes wrong, your Motor Factor, and your Mechanic probably won't want to take the blame, and you'll be in the middle having to shell out again.

People, Darragh is one of the few indy's I would let work on my own car, he's on here telling you like it actually is, with real world experience, as are others who work in the trade. Wouldn't you prefer when something goes wrong with your car to have a definite line of come back, not be stuck between 2 people and neither wants to take the rap? Let your Mechanics buy the parts, because they're the experts. Next thing you know, you'll be going to the Hospital asking can you bring your own aneasthetic.

PLUS 1

Darragh29 · 18-01-2009 01:16AM

Now there are folks in the industry, especially in the indy end of it, that will take 200+ Euro off you and change your oil. This is why I'm always arguing on here that there needs to be a new approach to service standards across the industry. There are two sides to this whole debate, if you want an indy garage to be fully equipped to deal with your requirements, in terms of equipment, training, and especially working practices, then there needs to be an acceptance that things like "I'll bring me own parts", and all this, have to be consigned to history.

I've argued on this forum before that the current set up, where I as an indy operator, have to buy from my competitor, the main dealer, is just stupid and daft and I compared it before to Ryanair having to buy their jet fuel from Aer Lingus, so what I'm doing about it is launching a website at the start of next month where OEM parts and authorised manufacturer sourced parts from overseas will be imported into Ireland and sold directly through a website, cutting out 2-3 expensive middlemen in the process.

I'll listen to any one with a grievance but it has always bothered me that people try things with mechanics and garages that are simply never tried with any other industry. I said this before, try going into Mc Donalds and throwing a Granby burder at the girl behind the till and asking her to fry it and stick two buns around it for 50 cent and see how you get on!

Gary ITR · 18-01-2009 01:22AM

ned78 wrote: »

If I get broadband from Perliwirelesstelecom in the morning, but my landline is from Eircom, and something goes wrong, it's a horrible horrible mess. Both companies blame each other, and f*ck all gets done.

If you get your own parts for a service, and it goes well, then brilliant. You feel a sense of accomplishment, and you're been a cute hoor. But when (not if) it goes wrong, your Motor Factor, and your Mechanic probably won't want to take the blame, and you'll be in the middle having to shell out again.

People, Darragh is one of the few indy's I would let work on my own car, he's on here telling you like it actually is, with real world experience, as are others who work in the trade. Wouldn't you prefer when something goes wrong with your car to have a definite line of come back, not be stuck between 2 people and neither wants to take the rap? Let your Mechanics buy the parts, because they're the experts. Next thing you know, you'll be going to the Hospital asking can you bring your own aneasthetic.

Excellent post Ned

I'm still wondering though how Indy's feel about supplying aftermarket parts, like coilovers, exhaust systems etc.

Owen · 18-01-2009 01:43AM

K-Jet wrote: »

I'm still wondering though how Indy's feel about supplying aftermarket parts, like coilovers, exhaust systems etc.

I don't think anyone would have a problem fitting parts like those, upgraded shock absorbers/coilovers, exhausts, different wheels, etc. Most of those things are specialised, and you'd be buying them though the likes of demontweeks - so your indy Mechanic probably wouldn't be able to source them for you without having to research it himself, and would be happy to fit them afterall, they proabably won't be the cause of a breakdown in time to come.

Jonny303 · 18-01-2009 02:15AM

Darragh,

Im a service manager in a multi-franchise dealership, and indy or not, we all take the same sh*t!

I take the exact same attitude as yourself in terms of respect and trust, if they dont trust us to do the work, and want to monitor it, well they can take their keys and go. Ive no problem people being interested, but a garage is exactly like any other buisness, and some may be in buisness a good while, and this applies to indy or not, because we earn a reputation for years of quality work.

To the punter with the forestor, would they have been quoting you for a flywheel aswel by any chance? Cant say i no foresters too well, bt its always a possibility.

A proper SERVICE takes 2 hours, and this is what really gets my back up. A service is NOT an oil change. People come in to me and want to book in for a "lube" service. Iv no problem changing their oil, but call a spade a spade. Your book will be stamped as such, and the word "service" will not be included, as i for one am not sticking my neck on the line when your brakes go 2 miles down the road due to cracks in your brake hoses.

And as for buying parts online for cost price. A clutch is the one example that keeps coming up here. But the problem here is, 90% of cars that need a clutch, are coming in with the clutch gone all together, not on the way out. Im sorry, but in life you can choose to have your car off the road for a week, and saving a few bob or you can pay for convienence of having it in and out in the day and paying that extra bit more. The choice is yours. Your having a few beers at home and decide you want a pizza, do you walk half an hour to go get it, or do you pay that little extra for convenience of getting it deliverd and not getting your feet wet!

Thats just my thoughts on things!

LoveDucati2 · 18-01-2009 03:22AM

Darragh29 wrote: »

If you have a seized brake caliper, you should be changing brake pads & discs,

Not necessary all the time

Darragh29 wrote: »

Anyone "servicing" a car in under 2 hours is taking a short cut, which would appear to be consistent with how you resolve braking problems.

Rubbish

Darragh29 wrote: »

It is obvious that you are not speaking from a position of experience here.

Darragh29 wrote: »

Unlike you, I have the experience of this. I'm not making this sh*t up, when it comes to cars, people will try anything and it all starts off with, "I'll supply my own parts", or some stupid request like this...

How would you know what experience I have

Healyc wrote: »

Supply your own parts - No, what parts does the ordinary Joe Soap know to get for there cars.

Are you saying that Motor factors do not know what parts are needed, ie the same motor factor that the garage uses

Healyc wrote: »

A Service in 20mins - Bullsh1t, changing the oil & filter is not a service. You must carry out all checks and yes Darragh is correct in saying that treat every car like its going for an NCT after you work on it. There is reasons why garages charge 1.5/2hrs labour and one of them is that is the manufacturer says so.

please breakdown 2 hours Labour charge for me then on a minor service

Healyc wrote: »

A Caliper in 10mins - Ok this doesnt take long but bleed all the brakes, change pads (and discs if required), carry out a full visual brake check inc the braking axle that was not at fault and then road test. Now do all that in ten mins.

All I said was that I can change a caliper in 10 mins and pads and bleed per wheel, you agree with me so why argue

Healyc wrote: »

Would you seriously like someone over your shoulder looking at you, a person who is unqualified and makes themselves become a nuisance by getting in the way.

Agree fully with you on this

Healyc wrote: »

Parts prices and availability are a disgrace in this country. If i need any geniune Merc parts i just call Isaac Agnews up the north, once its before 10am it will be on the train and in Connolly station at 15.00pm the same day. A fraction of the cost you would pay over the counter down here.

Agree fully with you on this

Darragh29 · 18-01-2009 03:59AM

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

You don't know what you are talking about. You'd change a seized brake caliper in ten minutes and leave a burnt out set of brake pads on the side you removed the caliper from, along with a brake disc that probably has heat cracks running through it, but sure fu*k that, who cares, once you get it done in ten minutes, you wouldn't bother your arse doing a brake imbalance test or test driving the vehicle.

Would you go to bed and stop making a fool of yourself with 20 minute services that aren't worth a sh*te to anyone and an utter balls made of a serious braking problem.

Driving a Jag and you can't afford more than 20 minutes labour. Fur coat & no knickers brigade.

blackiebest · 18-01-2009 11:37AM

Unfortunately ESB went down last night just as I was finishing this;

I am not in a position to supervise the work, rather observe it. I should have been clearer if I gave that impression. The work will be done next Saturday with loud good music and banter, a €50 tip for the mechanic as I have always left him and then a couple of pints after. My hands will be as dirty(clean) as his and a good job will have been done and I will havea better understnading of my lovely bus.

When I changed the exhaust on the vw camper I believe the reason it was a success is that I read all the potential pitfalls (mainly shearing the manifold mounting bolts x 8) online before hand, allowing me to avoid an engine drop to re-tap, I shudder to think about what that would have cost and I believe would have been the case at the mechanics. I took my time, when they felt like they were not moving, lubricated again and left it another day and took the time needed to avoid the problem. All told about six hours over 5 days! They were 20 years on and well seized, all this info got from numerous pro's and amateur toolies all posting their experiences.

I have now read up the same for the Subaru swap and know how it should happen, now I want to do it with the mechanic because I am interested and concerned.

The logic or rather lack of it in your last post would be the equivilent of trying to stop self builders building their homes using direct labour. The obvious benefits are not only potential cost saving but also the quality of build. You would be of the mindset of I do it all or nothing and sucker here pays for your haste or inability to buy materials at best price.

You want to set up your online parts for Eire, but advocate mechanics should not use the products you are trying to sell if brought to them by a third party? Good business sense Dont give up the day job just yet. I'd say the banks will be throwing money at you for that plan. Will this be a compliment to your rental bays? Big ambitious business plans for the current times, good luck with it...

I dont think I am underestimating you at all, I think I have a fairly clear picture of how you see the world and your customers. My first post was honest and fair, not in any way directed at you, and considering I am the type of customer you will be chasing in your new venture, which I will await with bated breath, I assure you the only thing I look forward to is sending more of my money across the water when in need of advice, value and customer service. You have a lot to learn if you hope to stop doing oil changes in the near future.

Reading posts from last night I would add the following;
About me, I am a director of a struggling company in the construction sector, we buy top grade products in Eastern Europe and sell them here, the Irish made equivalent are of inferior quality and more expensive. I am a time served tradesman and really wish I had never left the tools.

A previous poster, in defence of Darragh said that he is 'one of the few indy's he would leave his car with' and Darragh himself alluded to same 'Now there are folks in the industry, especially in the indy end of it, that will take 200+ Euro off you and change your oil. This is why I'm always arguing on here that there needs to be a new approach to service standards across the industry.'

I have no doubt that Darragh is an excellent mechanic and I am sure he could do the work I require to the standards I am looking for, however he is indeed one of the 'few' who would do this and that is what we punters are fcuked off with. What he will not seem to do though is deliver that to me at the best available price. I have already stated I am happy to pay the hourly rate @ €64.00 which I suspect is more than I suspect Darragh or any indy would charge, but we punters do not have confidence in your industry. The real fact is that if I was in Germany or even the UK I would feel far more confident that I would receive far better value for money and leave with the best possible job done.

So Darragh, please let me know how much you would charge me for the Clutch job on my Forester? Please do not ber influenced by the price I have paid for the clutch, be honest with it. Then deduce how much you could have done it for me if you had not marked up your admitted €250 LUK part. I know that your profit could stay exactly at the level you require but I could receive a better price!

The reasoning which you are using is seriously flawed, we punters get raped constantly by your industry and you have admitted this yet you want to maintain this quo. On top of that your mis-representing of my original honest post says alot about how you see the world.

Mr.Diagnostic · 18-01-2009 12:11PM

The motor trade is a funny business. Even though there are recognised qualifications there is no regulation. If it was properly licensed a lot of the issues raised in this thread would not occur.
It is amazing that for such a high tech business, which deals with peoples safety, the public perception is that it is a basic hammer and chisel type of job. The motor trade itself is to blame for this.

Any properly trained mechanic would be aware of what is listed on the manufacturers service schedule. This scheduled list of work is what is required in a proper service and is a lot more than 20 mins work.
Cars can, and do, suffer from a lack of this level of service.

10 minute brake jobs! If someone drives in to me with a worn front pads and all I do is fit front pads then I am doing them no favours. A brake service involves a lot of inspection work on all 4 wheels. It is unprofessional for any garage to undertake work on a safety critical system unless they are going to do it properly.
Apart from the obvious safety aspect to this, the exposure to liability from not doing this work properly should be obvious to all. A mechanic who works on any part of a brake system could easily be held responsible for a failure elsewhere in the same system.

Healyc · 18-01-2009 01:26PM

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Are you saying that Motor factors do not know what parts are needed, ie the same motor factor that the garage uses

please breakdown 2 hours Labour charge for me then on a minor service

All I said was that I can change a caliper in 10 mins and pads and bleed per wheel, you agree with me so why argue

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

The motor trade is a funny business. Even though there are recognised qualifications there is no regulation. If it was properly licensed a lot of the issues raised in this thread would not occur.
It is amazing that for such a high tech business, which deals with peoples safety, the public perception is that it is a basic hammer and chisel type of job. The motor trade itself is to blame for this.

Any properly trained mechanic would be aware of what is listed on the manufacturers service schedule. This scheduled list of work is what is required in a proper service and is a lot more than 20 mins work.
Cars can, and do, suffer from a lack of this level of service.

10 minute brake jobs! If someone drives in to me with a worn front pads and all I do is fit front pads then I am doing them no favours. A brake service involves a lot of inspection work on all 4 wheels. It is unprofessional for any garage to undertake work on a safety critical system unless they are going to do it properly.
Apart from the obvious safety aspect to this, the exposure to liability from not doing this work properly should be obvious to all. A mechanic who works on any part of a brake system could easily be held responsible for a failure elsewhere in the same system.

The folks behind the counters in Motor Factors should be to a trained standard so that would unqualify them as a Joe Soap.

Mr Diagnostic literally just wrote down exactly in what i was going to say.

LoveDucati2 · 18-01-2009 01:39PM

blackiebest wrote: »

How much you would charge for the swap?

Darragh He has asked you 3 times for a reply to this.

blackiebest wrote: »

Your attitude reflects your business skills and I am sure all the customers are gobsh1tes in your opinion.

Totally agree

blackiebest wrote: »

The point I made in the posts is that this country is a rip off and its mentality like yours that makes it so, I have no doubt that you are probably a good mechanic which is a good thing as I doubt you would get anywhere if you came out from under the car!

Totally agree

Darragh29 wrote: »

You don't know what you are talking about. You'd change a seized brake caliper in ten minutes and leave a burnt out set of brake pads on the side you removed the caliper from, along with a brake disc that probably has heat cracks running through it, but sure fu*k that, who cares, once you get it done in ten minutes, you wouldn't bother your arse doing a brake imbalance test or test driving the vehicle.

I am a mechanic too, all I said is I can change a caliper and pads in 10 minutes, you have agreed that this is possible as have other posters, this is possible, I did not say anything about damaged discs or pads. Learn to read, whats your problem

Darragh29 wrote: »

Would you go to bed and stop making a fool of yourself with 20 minute services that aren't worth a sh*te to anyone and an utter balls made of a serious braking problem.

I have asked you to provide a breakdown of a 2 hour service 3 times and all you do is come back with an insulting reply

Can a minor service be done in 20 minutes, please a simple yes or no, we don't need a rambling statement about something else

Darragh29 wrote: »

Driving a Jag and you can't afford more than 20 minutes labour. Fur coat & no knickers brigade.

The Jag quote is for other posters mentioning they are being charged €450 for a minor service

Your attitude is exactly why this country is F*cked, if you are happy to blatantly rip people off with 2 hour services then best of luck to you.

blackiebest · 18-01-2009 01:56PM

Healyc wrote: »

The folks behind the counters in Motor Factors should be to a trained standard so that would unqualify them as a Joe Soap.

Mr Diagnostic literally just wrote down exactly in what i was going to say.

Correct, and they generally are however when I brought the entire exhaust system with the manual to show my mate in the Top Part's company, which I had delivered to my house for £191 stg after he had quoted me €300 for just the silencew he was at a loss for words explaining that he is unable to buy from anyone other than Dublin main supplier and for the same as I got for 191stg would have been well in excess of €500. We are being ripped off, he knows it and any computer literate frugal person knows it. That is the point of this thread. If he had quoted me say €350 for the lot I would have gone for it. I am very happy to post the links etc to anyone who doubts the figures.

Gary ITR · 18-01-2009 04:41PM

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

I am a mechanic too, all I said is I can change a caliper and pads in 10 minutes, you have agreed that this is possible as have other posters, this is possible, I did not say anything about damaged discs or pads. Learn to read, whats your problem

I'm not a mechanic, well no qualifications anyway and I could change a caliper in ten minutes too. But it most certainly wouldn't be done properly and all of the other jobs that should be done when changing a caliper wouldn't be done.

I'm perfectly happy to pay for 2 hours labour for a service for my car. Servicing isn't just about changing the servicable parts but it's also about inspecting the car.

I know one indy who would service a car and let it roll out with worn brake pads, I certainly wouldn't be bringing my car to him. This guy also has no problem with customers supplying their own parts

The mechanic who looks after mine would give my car a full inspection and would spend the guts of 2 hours inspecting and changing parts. If I asked him if I could supply my own service parts he'd probably tell me to shag off.

So in my eyes it's the cowboys that let people supply parts and get cars out the door as quickly as possible just to get the next in

With regards to standing over a mechanic while he works on your car, well I wouldn't let a customer stand over my shoulder if I was doing a job for them (different industry). Now a mate doing a job on your drive and you giving him a hand is a different story

Darragh29 · 18-01-2009 07:45PM

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

The motor trade is a funny business. Even though there are recognised qualifications there is no regulation. If it was properly licensed a lot of the issues raised in this thread would not occur.
It is amazing that for such a high tech business, which deals with peoples safety, the public perception is that it is a basic hammer and chisel type of job. The motor trade itself is to blame for this.

Any properly trained mechanic would be aware of what is listed on the manufacturers service schedule. This scheduled list of work is what is required in a proper service and is a lot more than 20 mins work.
Cars can, and do, suffer from a lack of this level of service.

10 minute brake jobs! If someone drives in to me with a worn front pads and all I do is fit front pads then I am doing them no favours. A brake service involves a lot of inspection work on all 4 wheels. It is unprofessional for any garage to undertake work on a safety critical system unless they are going to do it properly.
Apart from the obvious safety aspect to this, the exposure to liability from not doing this work properly should be obvious to all. A mechanic who works on any part of a brake system could easily be held responsible for a failure elsewhere in the same system.

Another industry that suffers from this type of problem is the transport industry. I've a mate who runs a large transport business and he is constantly being undercut by competitors.

What is wrong with that I hear everyone here roaring at me??? Well, his competitors are not properly insured, they are not registering employees for PAYE & PRSI, they are not VAT registered, they are not HAZCHEM certified, so they are basically illegally carrying around dangerous chemicals without knowing how to deal with them in the event of a leak or an accident. They do not carry HAZCHEM spill kits in their vans if they are required, they do not issue invoices, they are not IRHE registered, they do not have a mandatory section C road haulage licence to operate, etc, etc, etc.

The exact same things is going on in the motor industry. To operate a garage or work on a vehicle, you should have to get a yearly licence from the state, not unlike a taxi NCT, and that should involve an audit of your business that examines the following:

Your possession of specialised equipment to do the job.

Your implementation of operating procedures that are ISO compliant.

Customer feedback facility.

Statutory compliance, CRO, Revenue, Health & Safety, Employment Law, etc.

A professional business cannot compete with someone who is charging ten minutes to change brake pads and charging 20 minutes for labour.

Darragh29 · 18-01-2009 07:48PM

On the question of providing a price for a the Subaru clutch, I'll give a price here on that tomorrrow. I have an LuK price list and the particular clutch in question is not on it, so I'll have to make a phone call on it, but I imagine the price will come out at around 500-600 Euro.

Darragh29 · 18-01-2009 08:18PM

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

I am a mechanic too, all I said is I can change a caliper and pads in 10 minutes, you have agreed that this is possible as have other posters, this is possible, I did not say anything about damaged discs or pads. Learn to read, whats your problem

I don't know how to break this down in a manner that you will be able to grasp, but I'll try...

(1) If your caliper is seized, this means that your brake pads on that wheel have been permanently engaged for as long as the caliper has been seized.

(2) If this has happened, the brake pad attached to the caliper piston has worn down completely and has no friction material left on it.

(3) Due to what is happening at (2) above, the brake disc is now badly scored and suffering from extreme heat damage.

(4) To PROPERLY remedy all this, you need to replace brake pads, discs and resolve/replace the root cause of the problem, the seized brake caliper.

These are the facts of the task.

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

I have asked you to provide a breakdown of a 2 hour service 3 times and all you do is come back with an insulting reply

It would take me at least an hour or two to list everything here that needs to be checked. Basically everything that the NCT would be looking for, including:

Put vehicle through test lane procedure, test for side slip, suspension imbalance front & rear axles, handbrake imbalance & braking performance front & rear axles (pedal & handbrake) and overall vehicle braking efficiency...

Test headlamp alignment/focus & adjust where necessary & carry out 4 gas emissions test for petrol engines or smokemeter test for diesels... If results are outside of NCT specification, investigate why & report to customer...

Underside inspection, including everything from inner wheel wall damage, tyre wall/thread damage, brake pad/shoe thickness, check for leaking shocks, brake hose & pipe condition, suspension bushing wear, anti-roll bar bushing wear, steering track rod end & inner tie rod check for wear, wishbone bushing wear, inspection of engine & transmission system for leaks & mounting wear, check for wheel bearing wear, CV joint & boot wear, steering rack seal checks...

Engine compartment inspection, check for oil leaks, check engine mountings for wear, check for air leaks, worn crank case breather hoses, etc...

Also required, check timing belt replacement interval where necessary and advise customer if this has to be replaced, (you also have to price this if it is due, as your customer will want a detailed price for this if it has to be done).

Then remove engine splash guards/covers, remove oil, oil filter, air filter, spark plugs or fuel filter, etc. Check all vehicle fluid levels & top up where necessary. Check all lighting circuits on vehicle. Check all safety belts for operation, check all door locks and window operations, check remote central locking where applicable.

Replace all of the above with new service components...

Service valet car, which means wet vac internally seats & carpet, dash clean, door sill clean, clean windows...

Wash car externally, gloss tyre walls, glass polish, alloy clean, for return to customer...

Compile & print out vehicle report for all of the above showing what needs to be done and what does not need to be done and any future work including timing belt, brake pad and tyre replacements.

Generate invoice for all of the above, under 200 Euro...

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Your attitude is exactly why this country is F*cked, if you are happy to blatantly rip people off with 2 hour services then best of luck to you.

My attitude is spot on, do the job correctly to the highest possible standard, and bring in transparent operating procedures into the business so customers can see and feel the added value for money, for example service valet & full wash with every service, written reports with every service and using the NCT starndard as the technical standard for every vehicle service.

Your attitude that 20 minutes will do, and not wanting to pay for what you get, because some idiot arse scratcher down at your local tells you that it can be done in 20 minutes, is what has this country fu*ked.

thetyreman · 18-01-2009 08:33PM

You hardly Valet and wash the car aswell for that money do yoy,if so you are way to cheap man

Darragh29 · 18-01-2009 08:43PM

blackiebest wrote: »

You want to set up your online parts for Eire, but advocate mechanics should not use the products you are trying to sell if brought to them by a third party? Good business sense Dont give up the day job just yet. I'd say the banks will be throwing money at you for that plan. Will this be a compliment to your rental bays? Big ambitious business plans for the current times, good luck with it...

I dont think I am underestimating you at all, I think I have a fairly clear picture of how you see the world and your customers. My first post was honest and fair, not in any way directed at you, and considering I am the type of customer you will be chasing in your new venture, which I will await with bated breath, I assure you the only thing I look forward to is sending more of my money across the water when in need of advice, value and customer service. You have a lot to learn if you hope to stop doing oil changes in the near future.[/I]

An online parts business model is a different thing entirely from a garage operation model. There is no messing or taking the p*ss or entertaining stupid requests. There is a price for a product on a website that is the lowest price for the product in Ireland and available immediately.

If you want to buy the product, click the purchase button and have your Laser/Visa card to hand, if not, no problem, pay more for it from your motor factor. We'll have it delivered to you that evening (open until 12PM nightly), or next busines day for deliveries outside of Dublin.

Anyone can buy from this website, mechanics, main dealers, indy garages, DIY folks, all for one low trade price. What I'm doing is allowing a customer to buy a part at the same price as a garage. Whether a garage allows a customer supply their own parts is and will remain a matter exclusively for that garage.

I still maintain that if I you are running an indy garage, you need to run it like a business and not give people the impression that you will run with any auld suggesion, like supplying their own parts, or giving the mechanic a hand when he is doing work for you, I don't agree that this is how a garage should be managed, for many reasons that I've already set out previously.

Having said all of that, there is clearly a high demand for an online parts business in Ireland with reliable delivery and competitive prices and excellent customer service. I believe that you need to be the change you wish to see in the world and I don't believe in sitting around and waiting for someone else to come along and up the game a bit...

Supplying own parts for service

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