Supplying own parts for service

LoveDucati2

AudiChris wrote: »

I think you're mis-representing these figures.

Just the time involved in moving the car into the workshop and onto the ramp, removing the wheels, replacing the wheels and test driving the car will take you 5 minutes.
Does your 10 minute caliper change include getting the car in and out of the workshop and test-driving the car (i.e. 5-ish mins for the job itself), or is it 10 minutes for the actual caliper and you're counting all the set-up, tear-down and testing time separately?

Yes, 10 mins just to change caliper, not counting moving, testing or anything else. read what I posted

Same question regarding the service.

Yes, 20 mins just to do a basic minor service

I am a mechanic, I trained in a large luxury dealership that ripped off customers like you would not believe, and still to this day large dealerships are capable of doing services in under 15 mins when its necessary.

sticking a junior on a car with no supervision and charging 2 hours labour because the kid didn't know what he was doing.

charging 40% mark up on parts, charging for parts that were not changed, air filter and air compressor... anyone, and a load of other scams that anyone here who worked in the 80's or 90's would know about.

LoveDucati2

Darragh29 wrote: »

Rubbish. Every business that supplies parts, motor industry or any other industry, buys them for price A, and sells them for price B. This is what businesses do.

I disagree, when you quote someone you give a price for Parts AND Labour, they expect the Labour to include your profit, they do not expect to pay 25% markup for parts. Would you ever tell this to a customers face.

You: The parts are €200 of which €50 is a kickback to me and the labour is €100.
Customer: Well why don't you take €50 off the parts or charge me €150 labour, because otherwise you are scamming me.

Darragh29 wrote: »

I could understand all this hype about profiteering if there was any evidence whatsoever that it was going on in the independent end of the industry. There simply is no evidence of this,

you have just admitted as much by thinking that its ok to pocket parts discount for yourself

Drummerboy08

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Yes, 20 mins just to do a basic minor service

I am a mechanic, I trained in a large luxury dealership that ripped off customers like you would not believe, and still to this day large dealerships are capable of doing services in under 15 mins when its necessary.

sticking a junior on a car with no supervision and charging 2 hours labour because the kid didn't know what he was doing.

charging 40% mark up on parts, charging for parts that were not changed, air filter and air compressor... anyone, and a load of other scams that anyone here who worked in the 80's or 90's would know about.

I think 20 mins for a minor service is a bit short TBH. I've never seen a mechanic service a car in twenty minutes.

And, i would rather a mechanic didnt rush the service, took his time and took 40 minutes, thus making sure he hasnt left anything out.

If you expected the mechanic to service your car in 20 minutes, then when your driving home, your wheels fall off because the mechanic was rushing and didnt tighten the nuts. How would you feel then?

You cant have your cake and eat it.

LoveDucati2

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I think 20 mins for a minor service is a bit short TBH. I've never seen a mechanic service a car in twenty minutes.

The point is that it can be done in 20 minutes. Most garages do not take off the tyres for a minor service.

Owen

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Yes, 20 mins just to do a basic minor service

20 minutes? That's laughable. I'm sorry, but if any Mechanic told me he'd given my car a 20 minute minor service, I'd have serious questions about his ability, his honesty, and the condition of my car afterwards.

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

I am a mechanic

Now I'm confused. You said in another thread you were an accountant.

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

I disagree, when you quote someone you give a price for Parts AND Labour, they expect the Labour to include your profit, they do not expect to pay 25% markup for parts.

Anyone who doesn't think there's markup on parts is living in la-la land. Why would trade discount exist otherwise? Customer goes into a Motor Factors, and buys parts at 100%, an Indy buys them at 90%. If you think the Indy should give the customer the parts at 90% too, perhaps you should join the Samaritans, or some other charitable organisation. The reason Mechanics get 10% off is so they can charge that 10% to the Customer.

End result is that customer is still paying the same amount for parts, but the Mechanic is earning the 10%, and if you think a Mechanic isn't worth a paltry 10% on top of his labour, then buddy, you're in the wrong Forum.

voxpop

I would think an oil and filter change using an oil extractor would take roughly 20 mins

Owen

voxpop wrote: »

I would think an oil and filter change using an oil extractor would take roughly 20 mins

Yup, an oil change would take 20 minutes, but that's not a service. It's an oil change.

Drummerboy08

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

The point is that it can be done in 20 minutes. Most garages do not take off the tyres for a minor service.

If my car was in for even the most minor of services, i would expect the wheels to be taken off. The point of a service is to not only change oil, and filters, but also to inspect the car. How do you check pads or discs without taking the wheels off?

If i drove my car out of the garage and a mile down the road my brakes gave up due to the pads being worn down, i'd be furious. The garage has a legal responsibility to make sure the car is in a roadworthy condition. So they have to inspect the vehicle, i.e. pads, discs, tyres, bearings, shocks, whatever the case maybe.

If the above happened to you after you going thru the service manager expecting him to get the service done in 20 minutes, i garantee you you would be on here naming and shaming the dealer for poor service.

As i said before - ever try having cake and eating it?

reverandkenjami

Darragh29 wrote: »

the only people I know making excessive profits in aftersales are authorised dealerships and parts distributors.

Off with the main dealer jibes again :rolleyes:

LoveDucati2

ned78 wrote: »

Now I'm confused. You said in another thread you were an accountant.

Yes sorry Ned, I know its difficult for you to understand that you can have more than 3 careers in 20+ years. Sorry about that. I am an accountant now, but I work in Derivatives.

This will save you having to ask another question just in case I say in another post that I work in Derivatives or a Bank.

ned78 wrote: »

Anyone who doesn't think there's markup on parts is living in la-la land.

This is a scam, price should be passed on to customer

FFS can some other mechanic have the balls to say that a minor service can be done in 20 mins, and also can they explain that the tyres do not get removed on majority of services.

Drummerboy08

Sorry mods. This guy is a headcase as far as im concerned.

rebel.ranter

Here is a list of typical service items to be checked at the various mileage intervals:

http://www.baydiagnostic.com/inspection.htm

It is BMW oriented but not that different to other cars in reality. Even the basic "Oil Service" as listed on this website would take 20 minutes. Checking tyre pressures alone would be 2-3mins, as would filling the washer fluid unless you have a super fast tap! OK you could do these as the oil is draining (or being sucked out)
Inspection 1 & Inspection 2 services would take considerably longer, to do properly that is. Tyre pressures alone would be 2-3mins,

Oil Change Service

1. Drain and refill your vehicle's crankcase with BMW approved oil. Install a new genuine BMW oil filter

2. Check all other Fluid levels, and top off as necessary.

3. Check and adjust tire pressure.

4. Fill windshield washer fluid.

5. Reset oil light

Another point is that people in this country (maybe elsewhere too) don't understand the meaning of a service. It is not all all encompassing fix it all item. There are normally fixed routines similar to the ones on the website listed. Other jobs outside these tasks are not service items. Yes they need for the jobs to be done are identified at service but a mechanic will normally seek approval to proceed with the work due to the extra cost.

So a clear itemised list should form part of the receipt to the customer (I know some main Dealers do this already). That would rule out any ambiguity.
Perhaps a list of parts used should also be included, an indy in my opinion should list whether O.E.M. or O.E.M. equivalent or spurious parts were used.
That would rule out any issues later on.

As for using customer supplied parts, if the parts are O.E.M. I can't see why a mechanic would have a problem. Say for example if I had bought the parts with the intention of doing the job myself but didn't have the time. Of course it would depend on the part. In my experience O.E.M. parts generally are a better fit (recently we fitted a set of spurious brake pads for a friend & they were slightly too big for the calliper). If was a mechanic & a customer brought in a QH box then I would be peed off.

(BTW I do my own servicing & maintenance myself because I enjoy it & I also know when it is done it has actually been done.)

Owen

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Yes sorry Ned, I know its difficult for you to understand that you can have more than 3 careers in 20+ years.

Whoops, sorry mate, I thought you meant currently in both posts.

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

This is a scam, price should be passed on to customer

Making profit is not a scam. It's good business sense, besides, at an Indy, that level of profit is going to be paltry anyway.

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

FFS can some other mechanic have the balls to say that a minor service can be done in 20 mins, and also can they explain that the tyres do not get removed on majority of services.

There is the issue. You're out of date on what's legally required to do a service. If you do an oil change, and the customer goes out the door and hits a wall due to mechanical failure, you're not liable ... but ...

If you say you do a (And you use the word) service, you are immediately liable if anything happens to the car, if you inspect it or not. That's why a service must take more than 20 minutes.

mickdw

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

If my car was in for even the most minor of services, i would expect the wheels to be taken off. The point of a service is to not only change oil, and filters, but also to inspect the car. How do you check pads or discs without taking the wheels off?

If i drove my car out of the garage and a mile down the road my brakes gave up due to the pads being worn down, i'd be furious. The garage has a legal responsibility to make sure the car is in a roadworthy condition. So they have to inspect the vehicle, i.e. pads, discs, tyres, bearings, shocks, whatever the case maybe.

If the above happened to you after you going thru the service manager expecting him to get the service done in 20 minutes, i garantee you you would be on here naming and shaming the dealer for poor service.

As i said before - ever try having cake and eating it?

I know for a fact that BMW UK used a measurement tool to check pad wear without taking wheel off. I read a reply from bmw over a complaint that a customers brakes were scraping shortly after service. Its seems at that time they used a special caliper type tool to check overall thickness to back of pads. This method didnt however pick up on the fact that the caliper was sticking and so all the wear was on one pad while overall thickness would be equal to half worn pads. That is pretty poor servicing but appeared to be manufacturer standard. Put this together with sucking out the engine oil, change oil filter, top up fluids, basic checks, a test drive and wash and it doesnt add up to 2 hours labour.

reverandkenjami

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

This is a scam, price should be passed on to customer

Oh ye, and your local shop is buying milk off their supplier at a 20% discount. They are charging you the full retail price, that must be a scam too!! In fact every business in the world is a scam :rolleyes:

LoveDucati2

mickdw wrote: »

I know for a fact that BMW UK used a measurement tool to check pad wear without taking wheel off. I read a reply from bmw over a complaint that a customers brakes were scraping shortly after service. Its seems at that time they used a special caliper type tool to check overall thickness to back of pads. This method didnt however pick up on the fact that the caliper was sticking and so all the wear was on one pad while overall thickness would be equal to half worn pads. That is pretty poor servicing but appeared to be manufacturer standard. Put this together with sucking out the engine oil, change oil filter, top up fluids, basic checks, a test drive and wash and it doesnt add up to 2 hours labour.

Be prepared for a hammering for uttering this sense:D

LoveDucati2

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Sorry mods. This guy is a headcase as far as im concerned.

don't make it personal

reverandkenjami wrote: »

Oh ye, and your local shop is buying milk off their supplier at a 20% discount. They are charging you the full retail price, that must be a scam too!! In fact every business in the world is a scam :rolleyes:

Well no. You know what their profit margin is, they are not charging you twice.

Telling a customer that parts are €200 of which €50 is a kickback is lying, the parts are now only €150, this is simply dishonest and possibly fraud.

Am I missing something here, is their anyone that talks sense here?

rebel.ranter

Anyone care to take on the challenge of a YouTube 20 minute service? I would like to see a video of a 20 minute service. Even better again if it could be repeated over & over for a full day's work.

Just as a follow up to my previous post I think that it makes most sense for the mechanic doing the work to supply the parts. As someone else stated previously, the mechanic is then 100% able to stand over their work.

Drummerboy08

mickdw wrote: »

I know for a fact that BMW UK used a measurement tool to check pad wear without taking wheel off. I read a reply from bmw over a complaint that a customers brakes were scraping shortly after service. Its seems at that time they used a special caliper type tool to check overall thickness to back of pads. This method didnt however pick up on the fact that the caliper was sticking and so all the wear was on one pad while overall thickness would be equal to half worn pads. That is pretty poor servicing but appeared to be manufacturer standard. Put this together with sucking out the engine oil, change oil filter, top up fluids, basic checks, a test drive and wash and it doesnt add up to 2 hours labour.

Does that not further highlight that the wheels need to be taken off to check the pads and calipers?



And i do agree - it doesnt take 2 hours to service a car either. But i think 20 minutes is being unrealistic.

LoveDucati2

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Does that not further highlight that the wheels need to be taken off to check the pads and calipers?

Absolutely, how many people have had their car serviced recently, did the garage remove all 4 wheels?

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

And i do agree - it doesnt take 2 hours to service a car either.

Great that was my whole point, 2 hour services are a rip off.

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

But i think 20 minutes is being unrealistic.

Agreed, but it can be done on a minor service, most working mechanics do not want you to know this, and yes it would be impossible to do it all day, hence the reason the charge you 2 hours, because I guarantee you that 2 hours has not been spent working on your car.

Drummerboy08

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Absolutely, how many people have had their car serviced recently, did the garage remove all 4 wheels?



Great that was my whole point, 2 hour services are a rip off.



Agreed, but it can be done on a minor service, most working mechanics do not want you to know this, and yes it would be impossible to do it all day, hence the reason the charge you 2 hours, because I guarantee you that 2 hours has not been spent working on your car.

The last time i had my car serviced, they did take my wheels off. It was in for an oil change and a filter change. They must have taken the wheels off to inspect it because i was informed i needed new pads and discs. They even showed me the parts they took off, and they were right.

Mr.Diagnostic

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Yes, 20 mins just to do a basic minor service

I am a mechanic, I trained in a large luxury dealership that ripped off customers like you would not believe, and still to this day large dealerships are capable of doing services in under 15 mins when its necessary.

What brand of car are you qualified and experienced on?

While you were working on those luxury cars did you never have access to the manuf service schedule?

mickdw

Darragh29 wrote: »

If this previous poster wants to start a debate on value for money, he ought have a serious look at his own back yard before coming on here spitting & hissing at people.

If the builder prices blocks in Ireland and the property owner turns up and says, "look, I can save 10,000 Euro by sending a truck to the UK to bring over these cheaper but better quality blocks, but they'll take a week to come over", are you telling me the builder will turn around and be grand with that???

Whats wrong with my back yard?

reverandkenjami

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Telling a customer that parts are €200 of which €50 is a kickback is lying, the parts are now only €150, this is simply dishonest and possibly fraud.

The retail price of the part is still €200. The €50 is the mechanics margin

LoveDucati2

reverandkenjami wrote: »

The retail price of the part is still €200. The €50 is the mechanics margin

The labour charge includes the mechanics / garage margin.

The €50 kickback is scamming or ripping off or stealing from the customer.

peasant

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

The labour charge includes the mechanics / garage margin.

The €50 kickback is scamming or ripping off or stealing from the customer.

My dear ducati, love

We've had words before about your language and polemics.

This is the last time I'm going to ask you to play nice on this forum, i.e without constantly lashing out at some of our members (yes, tradespeople post here too)

Any more of your polemics and you'll take a break from here.

Terrontress

reverandkenjami wrote: »

The retail price of the part is still €200. The €50 is the mechanics margin

It is very few industries that apply a 33.3% margin. Fewer still which apply that margin without having to collect, store, rotate stock, run the risk of pilfering, display or discount the product that is being sold.

I'd say that if there wasn't a "my way or the highway" mentality, few customers would go into that agreement in full knowledge of the facts.

Gary ITR

Terrontress wrote: »

It is very few industries that apply a 33.3% margin. Fewer still which apply that margin without having to collect, store, rotate stock, run the risk of pilfering, display or discount the product that is being sold.

I'd say that if there wasn't a "my way or the highway" mentality, few customers would go into that agreement in full knowledge of the facts.

The average margin on a 50cl bottle of coke is 35%, same for a dairymilk. A portion of wedges in a hot counter run at about 75%

Spar, Centra etc generally sell products above their RRP, garages are of course doing the same

gofaster_s13

Could the person here who says they can service a car in 20 minutes tell me exactly what they are checking/changing I have been working as a mechanic for 13 yrs and even when I'm servicing my own car(always a rush job:rolleyes:) it takes me a lot longer than that. comparing Irish prices to UK prices doesnt really stand up the economies of scale just arent comparable(UK 60 million population Ireland 4 million). I won't work with a customer looking over my shoulder, he has no place on the garage floor or a restaurant kitchen or behind a bar in a pub.
I have seen a sign in a garage,
Labour rate £40 an hour
Labour rate £50 an hour if you watch
Labour rate £60 an hour if you help

solo1484

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

The labour charge includes the mechanics / garage margin.

The €50 kickback is scamming or ripping off or stealing from the customer.

The mechanic gets their parts at trade price from the main dealer or motorfactor, which is cheaper than the RRP to the public; this allows the mechanic to put their own mark-up on parts...so the mechanic really just charges what you prob will get charged if you buy the parts yourself:)