taekwondo?

Musashi · 03-10-2008 04:51PM

Well I'll Be!

1-337, never knew what that meant until now!

Got to second dan under a non ITF club and kinf of lost interest for a while after that!

I would say that TKD is as good as any other MA for "the Street" if you stick to solid reverse punchs to the other guys head!

Use the fitness and stamina to wear him down and batter him!

Roper · 03-10-2008 08:29PM

jim o doom wrote: »

I know it's totally off topic - I mean in a combatative street confrontation with a possibly armed & determined attacker - say it's raining so your footwork has to be careful, because you could slip and end up with him on you that street!

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you train in Kenpo.

I sirs, am a proud holder of a 2nd degree black belt with AIMAA. Although I understand there's many of you ITF folk who wouldn't recognise that particular rank, and would spit on me as I walked by. But I say to you now, and without hesitation, that mine is the real Taekwondo, and all of yours is only about money...:pac:

That's the usual inter-organisational argument starter out of the way anyway.

yomchi · 03-10-2008 10:13PM

Roper wrote: »

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you train in Kenpo.

I sirs, am a proud holder of a 2nd degree black belt with AIMAA. Although I understand there's many of you ITF folk who wouldn't recognise that particular rank, and would spit on me as I walked by. But I say to you now, and without hesitation, that mine is the real Taekwondo, and all of yours is only about money...:pac:

That's the usual inter-organisational argument starter out of the way anyway.

Hooccckkkkk...... thheewww...... (thats meant to be spit)

FruitLover · 04-10-2008 01:31AM

jim o doom wrote: »

I know it's totally off topic - I mean in a combatative street confrontation with a possibly armed & determined attacker - say it's raining so your footwork has to be careful, because you could slip and end up with him on you that street!

Sounds dangerous. I'd keep away from that street.

ColinJennings · 04-10-2008 10:36AM

Roper I'd love to know the origin of TKD eletism - and for that matter eletism in terms of my martial art is better than yours.

When I started doing martial arts, I just went to the nearest one that suited me. It isn't as if anyone consciously decides to join a martial art based on MA politics, so why once people are in a MA for a number of years does MA politics become so 'important' when clearly it isn't.

You either like the martial art and everything that goes with it or you stop giving them your hard earned cash. I happen to like TKD, as I'm sure you did/do.

challengemaster · 04-10-2008 03:28PM

Yellow-tag atm..Maybe in 3-4 years.. We'll see

dlofnep · 04-10-2008 04:58PM

I am not a black belt

I feel out of the loop. I did get a shiney green belt many a moon ago however! Green, for Ireland! Hoorah!

Ger Healy · 05-10-2008 12:47AM

ColinJennings wrote: »

Roper I'd love to know the origin of TKD eletism - and for that matter eletism in terms of my martial art is better than yours.

When I started doing martial arts, I just went to the nearest one that suited me. It isn't as if anyone consciously decides to join a martial art based on MA politics, so why once people are in a MA for a number of years does MA politics become so 'important' when clearly it isn't.

You either like the martial art and everything that goes with it or you stop giving them your hard earned cash. I happen to like TKD, as I'm sure you did/do.

Like you I also went to the nearest club to me it happened to be a TKD one but my decision to join wasn't based on style it was just the only one that was available to me at that time.
I agree politics isn't important until it impacts on thing that you are trying to do. And then it become‘s very important.
As for elitism in TKD as with any part of society where people are in a position of control or have a since of control over other people there will always be elitism.
For some people who are in these position of control, they want to hold on to it and so set up a system of hierarchy to ensure that status quo remains intact.

These hierarchy are required, it’s just that for some people power can leads to corruption.

But like you said you can “stop giving them your hard earned cash”.

pma-ire · 05-10-2008 06:26AM

mark.leonard wrote: »

Apologies to the INTA and AITA for forgetting that their 6th Dans also get a pension.

Tim, I too have never had numbers to put after my name. :'(

Hang on Mark!

Our certs had numbers in the corners!

They were just cert numbers, but still counted as to how far down the ladder we were

yomchi · 05-10-2008 08:51PM

pma-ire wrote: »

Hang on Mark!

Our certs had numbers in the corners!

They were just cert numbers, but still counted as to how far down the ladder we were

£5.99 doesn't count

Tim_Murphy · 06-10-2008 11:51AM

Like you I also went to the nearest club to me it happened to be a TKD one but my decision to join wasn't based on style it was just the only one that was available to me at that time.
I agree politics isn't important until it impacts on thing that you are trying to do. And then it become‘s very important.
As for elitism in TKD as with any part of society where people are in a position of control or have a since of control over other people there will always be elitism.
For some people who are in these position of control, they want to hold on to it and so set up a system of hierarchy to ensure that status quo remains intact.

These hierarchy are required, it’s just that for some people power can leads to corruption.

But like you said you can “stop giving them your hard earned cash”.

+1
Exactly

Of course once people start buying into the system it's hard to get out of it, unless you are wiling to admit to yourself that your wasted a lot of time and money on unimportant things.

As most know, TKD groups tend to line up by rank at the start of training, but I've heard tales of groups lining up by cert number within the different ranks. :eek:
Jon,
Do they do this in ye're ITF seminars with Master Choi and co?

Roper · 06-10-2008 12:00PM

Taekwondo politics started because my Taekwondo was better than your Taekwondo and you couldn't take that.

And money.

jim o doom · 06-10-2008 01:20PM

Roper wrote: »

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you train in Kenpo.
quote]</p>
That would be an affirmative - I only ask because I love the high kicking arts (I am NOT a good kicker) and when I manage to attain my black in kenpo I will be definitely doing something else as an add-on; part of my kenpo thing is it's all about street, so I'm looking at stuff critically so I can decide what's a good add-on for kenpo - a lot of people go with jiujitsu - but there's plenty of locking in kenpo already, and doing all them high kicks looks like a hell of a lot of fun! - this is like 2 years down the line so I will have a lot of info by the time it's going to be important!

Wile E. Coyote · 06-10-2008 02:07PM

Roper wrote: »

I sirs, am a proud holder of a 2nd degree black belt with AIMAA. Although I understand there's many of you ITF folk who wouldn't recognise that particular rank, and would spit on me as I walked by.

:eek::eek::eek:

I have recently started trying with AIMAA. Is AIMAA not recognised or liked by the other federations?

Furious-Dave · 06-10-2008 02:38PM

jim o doom wrote: »

Roper wrote: »

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you train in Kenpo.
quote]</p>
That would be an affirmative - I only ask because I love the high kicking arts (I am NOT a good kicker) and when I manage to attain my black in kenpo I will be definitely doing something else as an add-on; part of my kenpo thing is it's all about street, so I'm looking at stuff critically so I can decide what's a good add-on for kenpo - a lot of people go with jiujitsu - but there's plenty of locking in kenpo already, and doing all them high kicks looks like a hell of a lot of fun! - this is like 2 years down the line so I will have a lot of info by the time it's going to be important!

I don't want to lead this thread off topic so I sent you a PM Jim with my opinion on what to add to Kenpo.

yomchi · 06-10-2008 06:40PM

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

+1
Exactly

Of course once people start buying into the system it's hard to get out of it, unless you are wiling to admit to yourself that your wasted a lot of time and money on unimportant things.

As most know, TKD groups tend to line up by rank at the start of training, but I've heard tales of groups lining up by cert number within the different ranks. :eek:
Jon,
Do they do this in ye're ITF seminars with Master Choi and co?

No Tim, certainly not by cert number. Although I've heard one or two people argue over a spot in the line because one guy got a higher mark than the other!
Master Choi doesn't even like the belt system, he says it only creates ego. He was interviewed by Combat magazine a few months back where he said a few radical things about the belt system. He'd be the type of man who would put 7th degrees down the back and beginners up the front.

pma-ire · 06-10-2008 08:24PM

Jon wrote: »

£5.99 doesn't count

oh i paid a lot more than that for them

pma-ire · 06-10-2008 08:28PM

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek:

I have recently started trying with AIMAA. Is AIMAA not recognised or liked by the other federations?

GM Cho is registered with both the ITF and WTF. But he went out on his own a long time ago.

yomchi · 06-10-2008 10:58PM

Was registered! He left the ITF in '74. He claims to provided Kukkiwon certification but I've never seen an AIMAA Kukkiwon cert.

Roper · 06-10-2008 11:32PM

Jon wrote: »

Was registered! He left the ITF in '74. He claims to provided Kukkiwon certification but I've never seen an AIMAA Kukkiwon cert.

It was in the AIMAA handbook that you could get WTF certification. No one ever seemed to bother with it although we did sometimes learn the WTF patterns and I think there was some idea that we could do the WTF comps. Can't really remember.

yomchi · 06-10-2008 11:41PM

True, it is said in hand book. In my short, very short stop at AIMAA we never did any WTF style sparring and AIMAA aren't associated with the ITU (Olympic council TKD body) so they can't attend any official WTF tournaments. I reckon Hee Il Cho is registered as an examiner with the Kukkiwon but I've never seen/heard him do Kukkiwon gradings.

Tim_Murphy · 07-10-2008 09:39AM

Although I've heard one or two people argue over a spot in the line because one guy got a higher mark than the other!

LOL, quality.

Master Choi doesn't even like the belt system, he says it only creates ego.

Bet he takes the money off the guys paying hundreds of dollars for their gradings and certificates all the same though. :rolleyes:

ColinJennings · 07-10-2008 01:47PM

Jon wrote: »

Although I've heard one or two people argue over a spot in the line because one guy got a higher mark than the other!

Well thats just silly. If both members got thier grade on the same day, the next determinant of who stands where is age. Whoever is older is senior, regardless of what time in the day you graded or marks. How can you know your mark and not that rule?

Tim_Murphy · 07-10-2008 03:09PM

ColinJennings wrote: »

Well thats just silly. If both members got thier grade on the same day, the next determinant of who stands where is age. Whoever is older is senior, regardless of what time in the day you graded or marks. How can you know your mark and not that rule?

Yes it's silly to get people to line up by the marks they got in a grading or by their cert number but not at all silly to get people to line up by ranks and then by age. :rolleyes::)

yomchi · 07-10-2008 04:01PM

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

LOL, quality.

Bet he takes the money off the guys paying hundreds of dollars for their gradings and certificates all the same though. :rolleyes:

Cant blame the man for making a few quid either!

The whole line up thing is antiquated, and stems from the military history which really pays no dividends these days.

Jimkel · 07-10-2008 04:27PM

Plenty of Take yo do Black belts out there, almost as many as there are posh kids.

Tim_Murphy · 07-10-2008 04:31PM

Cant blame the man for making a few quid either!

No you can't but you can't use that reasoning to justify a group charging people hundreds of euros for certificates either. There's nothing at all wrong with people making a living from it, but a lot of the charges you see in TKD groups are just taking the p^ss and would never be put up with in anything other than organisations with strong cult-like qualities.

any on who know anything about history know that TKD is just a watered down, foam armoured, all the hard bits taken out form of the original JKA Karate, ie Shotokan.

Ya, that Shotokan is hardcore alright. :rolleyes:

Jimkel · 07-10-2008 04:34PM

oh a comment from an mma'er, Im trembling in my boots. don't get me started on fixed martial arts.

Tim_Murphy · 07-10-2008 04:41PM

Jimkel wrote: »

oh a comment from an mma'er, Im trembling in my boots. don't get me started on fixed martial arts.

I have no idea what 'fixed martial arts' is but I'm a TKD 3rd Dan. :cool:

I also train with a shotokan brown belt from time to time and I can kick his ass. :eek:

yomchi · 07-10-2008 05:15PM

Tim, I agree. As you know

Nice to see you back Jimkel, fire and brimstone talk there from the depths of Shotokan hell. I suppose your micky is huge as well.

taekwondo?

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