Protest in Ballina to prevent traveller family moving in

Shelflife · 11-09-2008 05:35PM

Im just not sure what the travelling community bring to the table.

They want everything but dont want to work or if they do work dont want to pay tax.

They complain that they cant get jobs because they are poorly educated , but wont go to school or send their children to school.
they complain that their mortality and sickness rates are high but wont clean up around themselves thus attracting disease.

they want halting sites all around the country so thay can maintain their heritage but dont want to pay for any of the facilities, hey id like to go to killarney every year free but thats not the way it works.

i meet a lot of travellers in my line of work and have been abused, threatened, robbed and intimidated by them.

Sorry as an ethnic minority they leave a lot to be desired.

Jigsaw · 11-09-2008 05:56PM

Shelflife wrote: »

Im just not sure what the travelling community bring to the table.

They want everything but dont want to work or if they do work dont want to pay tax.

They complain that they cant get jobs because they are poorly educated , but wont go to school or send their children to school.
they complain that their mortality and sickness rates are high but wont clean up around themselves thus attracting disease.

they want halting sites all around the country so thay can maintain their heritage but dont want to pay for any of the facilities, hey id like to go to killarney every year free but thats not the way it works.

i meet a lot of travellers in my line of work and have been abused, threatened, robbed and intimidated by them.

Sorry as an ethnic minority they leave a lot to be desired.

I second this. As a grouping, I am surprised that anyone can possibly defend travellers. However, there are surely individual travellers you'd think that might be decent.

irish_bob · 11-09-2008 09:27PM

Jigsaw wrote: »

I second this. As a grouping, I am surprised that anyone can possibly defend travellers. However, there are surely individual travellers you'd think that might be decent.

im sure there are but i have yet to meet one , i paid a traveller to do some paintingback in 2005 , btw , he came to me canvassing for work , paint fell off in 6 months , in 2007 i rang a painting company who were advertised in the papers , when they arrived i quickly realised they were travellers , anyway the paint is starting to fall off again , while im just a fool , what does that tell you about travellers

Bally8 · 19-09-2008 06:55PM

dotsman wrote: »

When do I get my free luxury house?
Do I have to give up my job first, stop paying taxes, not give a **** about society before I'm eligible?

A few people have said on this thread that council houses are free. Is this true? Or is that just for travellers? I pay 17% of my income in rent for my council house as does everyone on my estate. We were on a waiting list, got housed and now rent from the council. Are we being conned? Is it only my county council do this or are people only guessing that council houses are given out for free? I doubt it.

brianthebard · 19-09-2008 08:02PM

seamus wrote: »

And despite that, the travelling community refuse to acknowledge this and believe that it is up to the rest of society to become more tolerant, instead of being the travelling community's responsibility to clean up their image.

This has been going on for years. Since the travelling community changed from being travelling tradesmen (tinkers, knackers and so forth), to just being nomads, they have been consistently going down in the estimation of the rest of society. This hasn't been society's fault. It's the fault of the anti-social element within the travelling community.

Why do you think this is? Do you think one day a bunch of travellers sat down and said "feck this, I'd rather not work for a living?" No, that's not what happened. What happened was society in the nineteenth century decided it didn't want people who didn't fit into a certain set of principles, and travellers went from being viewed as useful productive members of society, providing trade, seasonal employment, culture, to be arrested for being travellers. Travellers have been condemned to moveable ghettos and the sooner people like you wake up to the fact that all the blame cannot be heaped on a community where the literacy rate is absymal, where kids are discriminated against at school by peers and teachers, who can't get a job because they are travellers, then the sooner there can be a change in attitudes and attempts at integration. Its already happening in places in Spain, where progressive governments have realised the way to deal with problems arising from poor Roma elements in society is not to demonise them but to help them. Novel idea isn't it?

Shelflife · 19-09-2008 08:54PM

Brian ,society didnt just decide to cast them out, society as a whole changed, farms used machinery so casual labour wasnt wanted, industry became more economical so tinkers werent needed any more.

they didnt change or evolve, farmers who couldnt survive on the last , changed their jobs, itinerants didnt. the world changed but the itenerants didnt.
they shunned education as it didnt fit in with their nomadic ways, now that has come back to haunt them.
they are unemployable because they lack the skills , because they shunned the education system, you cant move from town to town send your children to school now and again and expect them to be educated.

You cant have your loaf and eat it, if they want education then you have to go to school ---EVERY DAY.

its time they got off their high horse and helped themselves.

brianthebard · 19-09-2008 09:13PM

You didn't address my point about being arrested for being a traveller, this was a law in the nineteenth century. Nor was I talking bout machinery replacing them. I don't believe they shunned education and would like to see you prove otherwise. I'd also like you to address the point about being discriminated against by the system, and why Spain can provide for gypsies but Ireland can't provide for travellers?

Lockstep · 19-09-2008 09:18PM

Jigsaw wrote: »

However, there are surely individual travellers you'd think that might be decent.

My own statistical anomoly is that 100% of the travellers I've met have been decent. All through boxing/work.
So yes, there are decent travellers.

Shelflife · 19-09-2008 09:26PM

They shunned education by simply not going to school, when i was growing up there was two families in the area and their attendance was very poor , this was symtomatic in the 80s , im not talking about the 19th century im talking about now.
how is the system against them?? they get more handouts then everyone else, any business they conduct is in cash and the guards have no interest in going after them for petty crimes becase its too much trouble.

what do travellers bring to the table of society brian?

Lockstep · 19-09-2008 11:12PM

Shelflife wrote: »

They shunned education by simply not going to school, when i was growing up there was two families in the area and their attendance was very poor , this was symtomatic in the 80s , im not talking about the 19th century im talking about now.
how is the system against them?? they get more handouts then everyone else, any business they conduct is in cash and the guards have no interest in going after them for petty crimes becase its too much trouble.

what do travellers bring to the table of society brian?

Two families?

Ever hear of inductive reasoning?

Tony Broke · 19-09-2008 11:24PM

Shelflife wrote: »

Im just not sure what the travelling community bring to the table.

They want everything but dont want to work or if they do work dont want to pay tax.

They complain that they cant get jobs because they are poorly educated , but wont go to school or send their children to school.
they complain that their mortality and sickness rates are high but wont clean up around themselves thus attracting disease.

they want halting sites all around the country so thay can maintain their heritage but dont want to pay for any of the facilities, hey id like to go to killarney every year free but thats not the way it works.

i meet a lot of travellers in my line of work and have been abused, threatened, robbed and intimidated by them.

Sorry as an ethnic minority they leave a lot to be desired.

They are nothing but a burden on society.They are ***** of the highest order and are bleeding ous dry.The settled one's are the worst of all.

How many travellers actually work?

It seems like 90% of travellers are getting some kind of state aid.

Tony Broke · 19-09-2008 11:27PM

kickoutthejams wrote: »

My own statistical anomoly is that 100% of the travellers I've met have been decent. All through boxing/work.
So yes, there are decent travellers.

Are you a wannabe traveller or something?

I havent met a decent one and when I have its been short lived.

Your a teacher or something?

Orange69 · 20-09-2008 12:06AM

Tony Broke wrote: »

They are nothing but a burden on society.They are ***** of the highest order and are bleeding ous dry.The settled one's are the worst of all.

How many travellers actually work?

It seems like 90% of travellers are getting some kind of state aid.

So true.. I don't understand where this retarded notion that "The evil settled community are too blame for persecuting the travelers"..

They get everything for free and still cant be productive members of society..

/end rant

Skyuser · 20-09-2008 02:37AM

Are the tinkers just getting the house for free? If so....why?

Shelflife · 20-09-2008 07:36AM

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Two families?

Ever hear of inductive reasoning?

Yes i have, why wouldnt i base my theory on what i know, i can also base it on the fact that in the school where my children go the attendance of the travelling children is poor.

i also know some decent travellers as well but my question is and it hasnt being answered yet is...

What do the travelling community as a whole bring to the community table?

Bally8 · 20-09-2008 08:41AM

brianthebard wrote: »

where kids are discriminated against at school by peers and teachers, who can't get a job because they are travellers

I have to say I disagree here. Maybe this is the case for some travellers but not in my experience. I work in a school that provides second chance education to disagvantaged kids. Travellers are often our main users. However their attitude to education and getting a job is outrageous. Their parents are first in the door to get their childrens allowance forms signed, they claim every type of social welfare payment possible in association with attending our centre and the students themselves get paid. They are treated the same as everyone else by staff and students. In fact we bend over backwards to accomodate their different attitudes and ideas about how society works But they always have terrible attendance and leave once they are 18 because "why would I come here to learn when now I can get paid to sit at home?". (This has been said to me over and over again)

This has been my experience for 7 years now and its 100% across the board. 3 boys started with us last wednesday- we signed off all their forms for the social welfare and now they have disappeared again.

then the sooner there can be a change in attitudes and attempts at integration. Its already happening in places in Spain, where progressive governments have realised the way to deal with problems arising from poor Roma elements in society is not to demonise them but to help them. Novel idea isn't it?

As the work experience tutor in our centre I have arranged countless work placements for traveller teenagers where they employers have been very willing to give them a go. We have allowed them have 4 hour days instead of the full days the settled students have to do, we offer them transport if needed etc. Out of over 30 traveller students I have worked with only 1 managed a semi successful work placement. Why? They dont want to work!!!!

irish_bob · 20-09-2008 09:35AM

brianthebard wrote: »

Why do you think this is? Do you think one day a bunch of travellers sat down and said "feck this, I'd rather not work for a living?" No, that's not what happened. What happened was society in the nineteenth century decided it didn't want people who didn't fit into a certain set of principles, and travellers went from being viewed as useful productive members of society, providing trade, seasonal employment, culture, to be arrested for being travellers. Travellers have been condemned to moveable ghettos and the sooner people like you wake up to the fact that all the blame cannot be heaped on a community where the literacy rate is absymal, where kids are discriminated against at school by peers and teachers, who can't get a job because they are travellers, then the sooner there can be a change in attitudes and attempts at integration. Its already happening in places in Spain, where progressive governments have realised the way to deal with problems arising from poor Roma elements in society is not to demonise them but to help them. Novel idea isn't it?

its people like you who encourage the travellers sense of victimhood , your not helping them , your harming them , thier a sacred cow to you

Capt'n Midnight · 20-09-2008 12:57PM

seamus wrote: »

Before someone makes the "local area" argument, it doesn't hold water. Beggars can't be choosers. If you have to move 200 miles away to get a free home, so be it. If you don't like it, go buy your own..

Genius
We could empty the housing lists into Wales

Shelflife · 20-09-2008 04:07PM

or even better 10 miles this side of Wales

:eek:

Tigger · 20-09-2008 04:12PM

Shelflife wrote: »

What do the travelling community as a whole bring to the community table?

well they give morons who don't know travellers and traveller culture something to harp on about

Tigger · 20-09-2008 04:28PM

brianthebard wrote: »

Why do you think this is? Do you think one day a bunch of travellers sat down and said "feck this, I'd rather not work for a living?"

yes some of them did

No, that's not what happened. What happened was society in the nineteenth century decided it didn't want people who didn't fit into a certain set of principles, and travellers went from being viewed as useful productive members of society, providing trade, seasonal employment, culture, to be arrested for being travellers.

there have been changes since then
the whole structure of everything has changed slightly

Travellers have been condemned to moveable ghettos and the sooner people like you wake up to the fact that all the blame cannot be heaped on a community where the literacy rate is absymal, where kids are discriminated against at school by peers and teachers, who can't get a job because they are travellers,

ah man do you live in the real world at all?
what makes you think they are discriminated against
i deal with travellers on a day to day basis some are sound

but i've never had a member of the not the travellers community tell me they would murder me and then tell me where i lived and who my wife was

never

not once

i picked up a traveller family that were broke down atr the side of the road and drove them to their site

he told me they love ttat he loved this part of the country because people were stupid and didn't watch travellers enough

some travellers should condemm these types but they don't they stick together
thats my issue

then the sooner there can be a change in attitudes and attempts at integration. Its already happening in places in Spain, where progressive governments have realised the way to deal with problems arising from poor Roma elements in society is not to demonise them but to help them. Novel idea isn't it?

the roma have nothing to do with irish travellers

brianthebard · 20-09-2008 04:44PM

Did I say the roma had anything to do with Irish travellers? I was using an example of what happens when a government takes steps to integrate a maligned ethnic group.

Shelflife · 20-09-2008 04:47PM

So Brian could you tell me , what in your opinion do the travelling community bring to the table?

MooseJam · 20-09-2008 04:54PM

Tigger wrote: »

traveller culture

:pac:

Tigger · 20-09-2008 04:56PM

brianthebard wrote: »

Did I say the roma had anything to do with Irish travellers? I was using an example of what happens when a government takes steps to integrate a maligned ethnic group.

our govt give plenty to the travellers

brianthebard · 20-09-2008 04:58PM

Tigger wrote: »

our govt give plenty to the travellers

That's not integration.

Pythia · 20-09-2008 05:05PM

I'd be picketing if this was near my house. Anyway, they'll probably burn it down soon enough so problem solved...

Tigger · 20-09-2008 05:06PM

the travelling community themselves like the segregation

i agree that all travellers are tarred with the same brush but travellers fight integration

the leaders of the travellers like it the way it is

Shelflife · 20-09-2008 05:09PM

I thought they didnt want integration? just to do their own thing and get everyone else to pay for it.

are you going to answer the question brian or phaff around it??

brianthebard · 20-09-2008 05:12PM

Tigger wrote: »

the travelling community themselves like the segregation

i agree that all travellers are tarred with the same brush but travellers fight integration

the leaders of the travellers like it the way it is

Who are these leaders of the travellers?

Protest in Ballina to prevent traveller family moving in

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