Pitch And Putt

Kingdom · 23-06-2008 01:46PM

Dromcill wrote: »

19 Scratch Cups in Cork this year between March and October

Jaysus.

Tipperman · 23-06-2008 02:24PM

Dromcill wrote: »

Guys, I think that the Scratch cup era is coming to an end speaking from a Cork point of view. I have played in most of the scratch cups in Cork this year and for most clubs the entries have been between 60 and 100 (weather a big factor). These figures are well down on what used to play in these competitions. What with the prize money (vouchers rather than glass) required and the work involved in getting courses ready, I can see a lot of clubs in the future giving up on Scratch cups. The main reasons, I see the numbers playing in Cork Scratch cups falling are:
Too many scratch cups (one every week typically in Cork)

The same 5 or 6 players are winning each week so people are not going to spend 10 euro on a competition they have no chance of winning

Intermediate and Junior players are realistically only playing for one prize

The Douglas club recently had an innovative Nett Cup instead of a Scratch Cup. Here the top 16 Nett scores for 36 Holes qualified for an 18 hole playoff. This could be one way forward but then the top senior players would probably not play in this. So it is a tough situation to sort out.

Personally I enjoy playing in the scratch cups even though I have no chance of winning. 10 euro for two rounds on courses that are at their best is great value. Compare that to a round of golf or any other sport and that has to be value for money !!!!!

By the way, How many typically play in scratch cups in the Dublin area and other areas around the country

Dromcill

I can't but agree with everything you have said...

We at Lakeside introduced a Sen/Inter/Junior Scr Cup for the last 3 years... This has proved to be a massive success.. We normally have up to 130 competitors each year and in that you would have about 60 Sen,30 Inter 20 Jun and 10 Ladies give or take.... We give over €500 in prizes to each grade which is more than any other Club in the Country (I think)... I feel the Inters/Juniors are discriminated against in Scr Cups, eventhough I am a Senior, in some cases you may actually have more inters/jun playing than Seniors but for less prizes.. It is not on in my view.. I believe every players should play for same amount of prizes in a Scr Cup regardless of their grade.. Now we have no Open anymore so this is the reason why this was set up on the one day.. It does work and now out of the 4 clubs in Tipp 3 of them are using the same format of Scr Cups...

It is my belief this year especially that the numbers are dropping rapidly but the ecomonic state in the country might have a lot to do with this also....

Jinkymagic · 23-06-2008 02:32PM

Dromcill wrote: »

Guys, I think that the Scratch cup era is coming to an end speaking from a Cork point of view. I have played in most of the scratch cups in Cork this year and for most clubs the entries have been between 60 and 100 (weather a big factor). These figures are well down on what used to play in these competitions. What with the prize money (vouchers rather than glass) required and the work involved in getting courses ready, I can see a lot of clubs in the future giving up on Scratch cups. The main reasons, I see the numbers playing in Cork Scratch cups falling are:
Too many scratch cups (one every week typically in Cork)

The same 5 or 6 players are winning each week so people are not going to spend 10 euro on a competition they have no chance of winning

Intermediate and Junior players are realistically only playing for one prize

The Douglas club recently had an innovative Nett Cup instead of a Scratch Cup. Here the top 16 Nett scores for 36 Holes qualified for an 18 hole playoff. This could be one way forward but then the top senior players would probably not play in this. So it is a tough situation to sort out.

Personally I enjoy playing in the scratch cups even though I have no chance of winning. 10 euro for two rounds on courses that are at their best is great value. Compare that to a round of golf or any other sport and that has to be value for money !!!!!

By the way, How many typically play in scratch cups in the Dublin area and other areas around the country

I played in that nett cup and i have to say its definitly the way forward for some clubs! As you said there are 19 scratch cups in Cork alone, if lets say 5 or 6 of these were to change to a nett cup i think attendences would increase for scratch cups. And i do think that we'll see more clubs take the nett cup on board next season. Which might in turn give scratch cups more prestige as there might not be as many! There really needs to be something done about inters and juniors in scratch cups as most of the time they are competing for 2 prizes. Also the fear of being cut is a fairly big factor in inters and juniors not turning out in bigger numbers!

Very few of the seniors played in the nett cup, but there was still a fairly poor turnout among inters and juniors! I qualified for the playoff and my card was number 90!!! That means that at most the turnout they had was 89. This was over 2 days! Considering 1st prize was €300 i think they made a huge loss!

I think the one problem they had was the days it was on. The national qualifying was on the sunday and the nett cup took place on the friday and saturday. A lot of players would have been at their respective qualifying courses practising. The only reason i went was because we were qualifying in ballinlough which was only down the road from douglas. Also the price was a bit much. €10 for each day. I would have thought that they would have made it €10 the first day and if you came back the next day it could be €5. That might have encouraged more to come back!

Jinkymagic · 23-06-2008 02:42PM

Ok guys I played off 3 last year, I got a shot back this year so I was off 4. I won a prize in a scratch cup(inter prize-102). I then won the inter gross in an open a few weeks back with my best cards adding to 95. On the board where the scores were posted next to my name it said noted. So at this point I have 2 notes. As ye all probably know you need to win 3 prizes to get cut from 4 to 3.

Yesterday a guy from my club informed me that I was cut to 3. I looked at the form he had which showed the douglas open. Instead of noting me as they said(wrote on the board) they cut me 1 shot. How can this be? Is it a mistake or are they able to do this? And surely they should have informed me! And I am 99.9% sure I have not won anything else outside or inside my own club so its not a case that the ppui changed it to cut me!

Kingdom · 23-06-2008 03:25PM

Tipperman wrote: »

Dromcill

I can't but agree with everything you have said...

We at Lakeside introduced a Sen/Inter/Junior Scr Cup for the last 3 years... This has proved to be a massive success.. We normally have up to 130 competitors each year and in that you would have about 60 Sen,30 Inter 20 Jun and 10 Ladies give or take.... We give over €500 in prizes to each grade which is more than any other Club in the Country (I think)... I feel the Inters/Juniors are discriminated against in Scr Cups, eventhough I am a Senior, in some cases you may actually have more inters/jun playing than Seniors but for less prizes.. It is not on in my view.. I believe every players should play for same amount of prizes in a Scr Cup regardless of their grade.. Now we have no Open anymore so this is the reason why this was set up on the one day.. It does work and now out of the 4 clubs in Tipp 3 of them are using the same format of Scr Cups...

It is my belief this year especially that the numbers are dropping rapidly but the ecomonic state in the country might have a lot to do with this also....

I tried thinking of ways to limit scratch cups, but in the end it was too complex. It isn't as straight forward as saying 1 cup per Munster per Sunday as thats too great an area. Even more for Leinster. Plus I don't think people would just go to a scr cup if there is only one on at a given time.

I do think though that one club cannot have more than one Scr cup a year. This would effect us as we have 3 this year.

Kingdom · 23-06-2008 03:28PM

Jinkymagic wrote: »

Ok guys I played off 3 last year, I got a shot back this year so I was off 4. I won a prize in a scratch cup(inter prize-102). I then won the inter gross in an open a few weeks back with my best cards adding to 95. On the board where the scores were posted next to my name it said noted. So at this point I have 2 notes. As ye all probably know you need to win 3 prizes to get cut from 4 to 3.

Yesterday a guy from my club informed me that I was cut to 3. I looked at the form he had which showed the douglas open. Instead of noting me as they said(wrote on the board) they cut me 1 shot. How can this be? Is it a mistake or are they able to do this? And surely they should have informed me! And I am 99.9% sure I have not won anything else outside or inside my own club so its not a case that the ppui changed it to cut me!

Sorry Jinky I've no real idea how the handicap system works. I know the SRS used to be used but I don't win that many prizes nor do I have much to lose so sorry there mate.

FlawedGenius · 23-06-2008 04:24PM

HITMANHEALY wrote: »

Ger havent heard any results in, good score alright on Friday, it was playing easy hardly any win so pitching was easy, have to get practice in this week as i played very inconsistent on Friday in Glenville - quite annoyed!!!

Cheers and yea conditions couldnt of been easier.Whats the fixtures for Leagues tommorow on the southside Hitman?

FlawedGenius · 23-06-2008 04:35PM

Kingdom wrote: »

Savage first round Ger, regardless of the conditions. Good spot on the course record too. I remember Andy Lowe did a 41 in O/C in a sweepstake to set a new record, but one of the holes changed a few months later to "remove" his record. He got it back soon enough with another 41 a few weeks later again.

They will mainly use the shorter teebox tho they said.Anyway wont be long before Phil Byrne or Anto Gray bang in a 41 or 40.On the scratch cup conjestion, Cpms clashes with Charleville, Ferbane, and McBride which is a joke considering youl have weekends when theres nothing on.Must be the only day in the year when theres 4 on.Where has that Andy Lowe gone?lol

Kingdom · 23-06-2008 04:40PM

GerCPM wrote: »

They will mainly use the shorter teebox tho they said.Anyway wont be long before Phil Byrne or Anto Gray bang in a 41 or 40.On the scratch cup conjestion, Cpms clashes with Charleville, Ferbane, and McBride which is a joke considering youl have weekends when theres nothing on.Must be the only day in the year when theres 4 on.Where has that Andy Lowe gone?lol

Yeah thats a strange one alright, yer Scr cup is on the same day as the All Ireland football final so I never get to play it.

Andy is still knocking around. The lads are getting the course back into shape and making a good fist of it from what I hear, once that side has been sorted they'll be back. Old county usually goes in cycles anyway.

Tipperman · 23-06-2008 04:52PM

GerCPM wrote: »

They will mainly use the shorter teebox tho they said.Anyway wont be long before Phil Byrne or Anto Gray bang in a 41 or 40.On the scratch cup conjestion, Cpms clashes with Charleville, Ferbane, and McBride which is a joke considering youl have weekends when theres nothing on.Must be the only day in the year when theres 4 on.Where has that Andy Lowe gone?lol

In fairness like Ger has pointed out, a system has to be worked out to balance out the Scr Cups... I have to say I will prob head to CPM this year to see how all these players are improving all the time that play from there and maybe try and cut it with the locals up there;)

I have to ask the question about the course record in Glenville... Remember Dereks 84 at Glenville in 04. Did he not beat 42 in his second round. Ddes that not count as the course record for 18 holes or is it just for 36 holes he equalled that record the same day I remember...

What is the lowest players in this forum have done for both 18 and 36 in competition :rolleyes:

Kingdom · 23-06-2008 05:06PM

Tipperman wrote: »

In fairness like Ger has pointed out, a system has to be worked out to balance out the Scr Cups... I have to say I will prob head to CPM this year to see how all these players are improving all the time that play from there and maybe try and cut it with the locals up there;)

I have to ask the question about the course record in Glenville... Remember Dereks 84 at Glenville in 04. Did he not beat 42 in his second round. Ddes that not count as the course record for 18 holes or is it just for 36 holes he equalled that record the same day I remember...

What is the lowest players in this forum have done for both 18 and 36 in competition :rolleyes:

I wondered about that myself, but the new hole on 14 would necessitate a new course record I'd imagine. I think Derek did 41 ,43?

My best is 42 for 18 and 87 for 36.

Tipperman · 23-06-2008 05:08PM

DT_CPM wrote: »

Hey all - your forum is really getting around. I heard a lot of people mentioning it during the week. Some great points made, particularly by 'kingdom' - be careful kingom, the NEC will be looking to poach you!

One point made was the fixture/calender issue and christy mentioned it last night as a problem also. He reckoned last years calender was closer to the way it should be - expect to see a proposal from the Dublin Board next year about this and I would encourage other clubs in other counties to highlight it also if we want to change it.

I see 'best wishes' to both Ger and myself from several people so thanks for that.

The match last night was a great match in itself. Ger went 2 up then I went 2 up then Ger went 2 up again before I went 3 up with 5 to play. One decent pitch to the elevated 14th and I was halfway home but no - out the back it went and Ger nailed it. He then nails the 15th and I left my 3 foot put short on the lip - back to 1. Ger then chips in on 16 but I got my 3 foot put this time. We both missed our 10 ft puts on 17 and up 18 it went. Both found the green with me to go first - I raced it about 3 ft passed but Ger did likewise. He knocked his par putt in but thankfully so did I and that was that.

I'm sure Ger is dissapointed, I would have been if I had of lost but Ger will be back - he is championship material, no doubt about it.

DT.

DT & GERCPM

Congrats on what I have heard and read was a real titanic battle of a final. Darren you have continued your rich vein of form from the National Matchplay which I think you will agree is what you would have asked yourself heading into the Dublin Matchplay... Looks like the little chat we had at the 11th Tee Box proved beneficial for you int he end;). I have to say I am very pleased for you as you are a very talented player whos dedication to the game goes without saying.. I feel you are reaping your rewards this year and your patience has now been rewarded... It is onwards and upwards from here for you know.. I can already picture you in the Dublin Attire for the Leinster & All Ireland Championships and you will do yourself and CPM (Keeping the flag flying on the Dublin Team) proud... Congrats and well done again

Ger my good young man... I know exactly how you feel.. I lost 3 Tipperary Senior Matchplays in a row from aged 16 to 18 and those were bitter pills to swallow... I hate saying to lads you are young and have plenty of years as that is not what they want to hear... I was told that last year after the All Ireland Matchplay and it is poor consolation.. All I can say to you, look at your fightback.. 3 down with 5 to go... Darren playing well and you got a sniff to get back into the match and took it.. I remember remarking to someone in Fermoy when you played James Cleary in 2006 as to how impressed I was with your fighting capabilities... Remember it takes guts to comeback from facing defeat and you certainly have that my boy.... You have a few Scr Cups under your belt and this experience will stand to you.. It is still a long season and with the Dublin Stroke coming up, you have to concentrate fully on performing well in that... If you do, I can see no reason as to why you can't get an Inter Co slot.. Although I have to say, it will prob be the Leinster for you this year but that is progress and once you are progressing your are getting better YES.....Again Ger well done and I have to say I am very impressed with that scoring in Glenville... It shows you have taken your form forward so try and take on the rest of the season now and enjoy it as best you can;)

I think it is good for P&P in Dublin that ye had 2 players never to win the title before competing..It shows how strong the game can become and I look forward to many a battle with ye over the coming years.....

Jaysus me hand is broke from Typing:D

Tipperman · 23-06-2008 05:19PM

Kingdom wrote: »

I wondered about that myself, but the new hole on 14 would necessitate a new course record I'd imagine. I think Derek did 41 ,43?

My best is 42 for 18 and 87 for 36.

Understand what you mean Kingdom but when I was in Glenville I am pretty sure I saw a scorecard that Philip Byrne did with a 42... I nearly sure on that

Kingdom · 23-06-2008 05:25PM

Nice post Tipperman. Any update on your county trials after Sunday? How are you fixed for the Munster Matchplay? It will be tough down there.

Kingdom · 23-06-2008 05:26PM

Tipperman wrote: »

Understand what you mean Kingdom but when I was in Glenville I am pretty sure I saw a scorecard that Philip Byrne did with a 42... I nearly sure on that

Youa re correct about that. can't think of any explanation. Was placing in the day of the Inter counties?

FlawedGenius · 23-06-2008 09:51PM

Tipperman wrote: »

In fairness like Ger has pointed out, a system has to be worked out to balance out the Scr Cups... I have to say I will prob head to CPM this year to see how all these players are improving all the time that play from there and maybe try and cut it with the locals up there;)

I have to ask the question about the course record in Glenville... Remember Dereks 84 at Glenville in 04. Did he not beat 42 in his second round. Ddes that not count as the course record for 18 holes or is it just for 36 holes he equalled that record the same day I remember...

What is the lowest players in this forum have done for both 18 and 36 in competition :rolleyes:

Looking forward to seeing you there so.Im going for a hat-trick.And the other post, cheers thanks alot for the compliments.I was UP for alot of the match thats wat hurts aswell, a bad patch from the 5th til the 9th in the 2nd 18 cost me bad.

FlawedGenius · 23-06-2008 10:04PM

Tipperman wrote: »

Understand what you mean Kingdom but when I was in Glenville I am pretty sure I saw a scorecard that Philip Byrne did with a 42... I nearly sure on that

Finish off that post..Happy for Darren, if i could pick whod id lose to in the final itd be him. He came through alot of tight matches during the week which I think helped him abit in the final, whereas i didnt get past the 15th.Thats two years in a row ive been beaten by a clubmate in the latter stages of the competition.My bogeymen

Wigertoods · 24-06-2008 09:16AM

Kingdom wrote: »

I wondered about that myself, but the new hole on 14 would necessitate a new course record I'd imagine. I think Derek did 41 ,43?

My best is 42 for 18 and 87 for 36.

I'm nearly sure Derek had 44 and 40 in Glenville.Wouldn't like to disagree with Kingdom though,Has the memory of an elephant (No offense meant here).

Anyway best scores: 38 in cy for 18 long long time ago (before john had the amazing 36)
83 in cy for 36 (also a long time ago) but cy probably isn't a true reflection of capability as the course lends itself to low scoring.

Tipperman · 24-06-2008 09:23AM

Wigertoods wrote: »

I'm nearly sure Derek had 44 and 40 in Glenville.Wouldn't like to disagree with Kingdom though,Has the memory of an elephant (No offense meant here).

Anyway best scores: 38 in cy for 18 long long time ago (before john had the amazing 36)
83 in cy for 36 (also a long time ago) but cy probably isn't a true reflection of capability as the course lends itself to low scoring.

Still Super Scoring Wiger no matter where you playing...

Mine is 39 in Larkspur Park and 85 in Larkspur Park.. They were two different days from what I remember but the 39 was done b4 the new set up of the course....

Could never beat 40 at Lakeside but it not the easiest to score on as course record there is 40 and 86 for 36 holes;)

Tipperman · 24-06-2008 09:24AM

Kingdom wrote: »

Youa re correct about that. can't think of any explanation. Was placing in the day of the Inter counties?

No placing Kingdom....

Tipperman · 24-06-2008 09:29AM

Kingdom wrote: »

Nice post Tipperman. Any update on your county trials after Sunday? How are you fixed for the Munster Matchplay? It will be tough down there.

The team is very tight at the moment after Sunday

Team standings after 5 Trials
Paul O'Brien -48
Brian Webster -44
John O'Meara -39
Noel Joyce -34
Rory Hogan -34
Stephen Shoer -33
James Cleary -22

We have 3 trials left being 2 in Larkspur Park and 1 in Riverdale so for the last 2 spots on the team it will be tough.. John O'Meara, Brian Webster and Paul O'Brien are all safe but it is going to be interesting:D

The Munster as you can imagine is going to be very tough... Collins in my opinion is not a great course as too many pokey shots but I have no doubt it will be in good condition... J Walsh has to the favourite and his draw means he has to make Semi at least.. I have a tough draw myself but nothing new there eh.... Playing well at present so anything can happen.. I am looking forward to it but with work and family commitments I can't get down to practice there... I was off last week but the course was closed under health and safety as some women fell down there a while ago.. They are putting in some all weather soccer field or something and the Charity Scr Cup had to be moved to Douglas but the Munster is on in Collins....

Draupnir · 24-06-2008 09:34AM

The kind of scoring you guys are posting up is scary! It just shows me what I need to be aiming for and practising for though! At the minute my best around shandon is 50 for 18 holes and 107 for 36!!

Then again, thats not bad for 3 months play in the last 10 years in my opinion

Tipperman · 24-06-2008 09:41AM

Cork Trials after 5 Trials

John Walsh -62
John Cahill -55
Frank O'Donoghue -51
Eoin Shannon -50
Ray Murphy -48
John O'Sullivan -43
Bryan Delaney -40

The way that team is shaping up, Ray might need the Wildcard... Could you imagine if they left him off!!!! Very Very strong team once again...

HITMANHEALY · 24-06-2008 09:55AM

Kingdom wrote: »

I wondered about that myself, but the new hole on 14 would necessitate a new course record I'd imagine. I think Derek did 41 ,43?

My best is 42 for 18 and 87 for 36.

My best was in Glenville Open last year done 43 first round 41 second round for 84 still got beaten for the 36 by phil byrne who did 42/41 - I remember the last hole putt for 14 from 8 feet and missed it would have equalled course record by phil

Wigertoods · 24-06-2008 09:57AM

Tipperman wrote: »

Cork Trials after 5 Trials

John Walsh -62
John Cahill -55
Frank O'Donoghue -51
Eoin Shannon -50
Ray Murphy -48
John O'Sullivan -43
Bryan Delaney -40

The way that team is shaping up, Ray might need the Wildcard... Could you imagine if they left him off!!!! Very Very strong team once again...

Cork could field two teams and either one would be well capable of winning the Inter county.
As for Ray being left out,That's wishful thinking Tipper

:D

Wigertoods · 24-06-2008 10:01AM

Draupnir wrote: »

The kind of scoring you guys are posting up is scary! It just shows me what I need to be aiming for and practising for though! At the minute my best around shandon is 50 for 18 holes and 107 for 36!!

Then again, thats not bad for 3 months play in the last 10 years in my opinion

You have to remember Draupnir that best scores only happen once !!
Week in week out scoring would not be anywhere near as good as this.
I know of plenty of occasions where people would have snapped your hand off for a 50.

Draupnir · 24-06-2008 10:20AM

Wigertoods wrote: »

You have to remember Draupnir that best scores only happen once !!
Week in week out scoring would not be anywhere near as good as this.
I know of plenty of occasions where people would have snapped your hand off for a 50.

I'm glad to hear it or else it could be a longer road that I thought to get to a decent level of play!

On average what kind of hours would people be doing in practice most weeks? At the minute I am playing 4 days a week practice, about 2.5 hours each day. That is of course until the monsoon season started there recently! It's tough with work and other commitments but so far hasn't been a huge problem.

Tipperman · 24-06-2008 11:13AM

Draupnir wrote: »

I'm glad to hear it or else it could be a longer road that I thought to get to a decent level of play!

On average what kind of hours would people be doing in practice most weeks? At the minute I am playing 4 days a week practice, about 2.5 hours each day. That is of course until the monsoon season started there recently! It's tough with work and other commitments but so far hasn't been a huge problem.

You keep that level of practicing and you will be winning All Irelands for defo.. I would practice every Wed without fail(I never practice before this as I just relax after playing the weekend) and would play one round with 2 Balls.. 1 hour max... Practice again then on Friday evening or Sat Morning all depends on when Comp is on and same again.... Suppose I don't play as much as others but it works for me... Have to get time for the GAA aswell but I might be divorced soon if I don't win an All Ireland or so I'm told:o

Draupnir · 24-06-2008 11:20AM

Tipperman wrote: »

You keep that level of practicing and you will be winning All Irelands for defo.. I would practice every Wed without fail(I never practice before this as I just relax after playing the weekend) and would play one round with 2 Balls.. 1 hour max... Practice again then on Friday evening or Sat Morning all depends on when Comp is on and same again.... Suppose I don't play as much as others but it works for me... Have to get time for the GAA aswell but I might be divorced soon if I don't win an All Ireland or so I'm told:o

So what you are saying is, my girlfriend is quite right in being a bit cheesed off about how much I'm playing?

Tipperman · 24-06-2008 11:34AM

Draupnir wrote: »

So what you are saying is, my girlfriend is quite right in being a bit cheesed off about how much I'm playing?

Once you start bringing home the prizes though all can be forgiven:D:D:D

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