Uniteds Current Squad (Ronaldo, Nani etc etc)

Mr.Nice Guy · 21-03-2008 01:23AM

Bubs101 wrote:

Keane didn't win the Champions League and hell, Gerrard hasn't even won a premiership, does that prevent him from being a great in the english league?

Keane has the medal and lifted the cup on the night and they wouldn't have made it there without him so I disagree with your first statement.

Gerrard's consistent exceptional performances make him a great in the English league. Ronaldo has no such record in Europe.

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

They have.. I appreciate exactly what you are saying but I honestly cannot think of a more effective player this season. I think even United supports will openly admit that without his goals this season, United may not be 3 points in the lead at the top of the league.

I'm a United fan myself and think he's a phenom. That record of his is outstanding and I also can't think of a more effective player this season - in England. Europe is another story.

I just think we are in danger of watering down what it means to be 'world class' when you look at what others who have been bestowed that title have done in major games.

jesus_thats_gre · 21-03-2008 01:29AM

We could be..

Think of all the best players in the world though over the years. They are nearly always playing on the continent. The football played on the continent now is on a par (being generous imo) with what is played in England.

In generaly, you don't get to see the like Zidance, Kaks or whoever over the past 20 years play week in week out. Sometimes, all you see of them is in semi finals or finals or short snippets on tv. You don't get to see bad performances or the chance to identify glaring weaknesses.

I also think that people still have a problem admitting that the EPL is possibly the best league in Europe. The top4 of England are cetainly more effective in Europe than the top4 any other league at the moment.

Even Capello said it recently, the EPL has a massive percentage of the best attacking players in the world with Rooney, Ronaldo, Gerard, Torres, Fabregas, Adebayor, Lampard, Drogba and on.

The Sparrow · 21-03-2008 01:42AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i said the exact same thing and i was cut down too. face it, this lad starts a thread, thinks that because of this, he can deny everybody their right of opinion.

Actually mate you were the first one to try and deny people their right of opinion by constantly calling for this thread to be closed. Then when I called you on Ronaldo's performances against the big teams you dismissed me as needing to do some research and listed games against the top four where you said he was man of the match. Except I went and did the research that you did not do and found out that he was not the man of the match in any of the games that you wrongly claimed he was.

So I called you on it... And you still dont seem to have an answer for it???

You did not say that in your opinion that he was the man of the match... you presented it as fact. And as such I was perfectly entitled to show that your so-called facts were nonsense.

Look stop with the BS. Post constructively in this thread that you wanted closed so much or dont bother posting at all.

Sqaull20 · 21-03-2008 01:48AM

Bubs101 wrote: »

Keane didn't win the Champions League and hell, Gerrard hasn't even won a premiership, does that prevent him from being a great in the english league?

Gerrard lol, the game would have finished 6-0 if Hamann didnt come on and baby sit him...

Gerrard was one of the main reasons they were down 3-0, didnt get near Kaka and Pirlo, letting them have total control, Hamann was the star that night...

Keane along with Shearer is very over rated....

Keane like Shearer was not that overly talented imo, Keane missed the champions league final because a much more talented player had a chance to bury them and when Keane did go blow for blow with a central midfield king he failed ( Redondo ) had the beating of him in every area..

I dont think Keane, Shearer or Gerrard have ever been the best players in their position in the world at any time..

Mr Alan · 21-03-2008 01:53AM

woooo232 wrote: »

Actually mate you were the first one to try and deny people their right of opinion by constantly calling for this thread to be closed. Then when I called you on Ronaldo's performances against the big teams you dismissed me as needing to do some research and listed games against the top four where you said he was man of the match. Except I went and did the research that you did not do and found out that he was not the man of the match in any of the games that you wrongly claimed he was.

So I called you on it... And you still dont seem to have an answer for it??? You did not say that in your opinion that he was the man of the match... you presented it as fact. And as such I was perfectly entitled to show that your so-called facts were nonsense.

Look stop with the BS. Post constructively in this thread that you wanted closed so much or dont bother posting at all.

Hi,

My name is Alan.

I like your posts.

Especially when you're putting homer (ed) back in his box.

Kind Regards,

Alan

PHB · 21-03-2008 04:27AM

Wow, somehow this word being effective has transformed itself.

Ronaldhinio, Kaka or even maybe Messi is but he is alot more effective than some of them - even at their best. These players just effortlessly glide by players and don't seem to care what anyone else is doing.

How you can think these words don't describe Ronaldo is just utterly beyond me.

Dont be at yourself · 21-03-2008 04:54AM

How anyone can not see that Ronaldo is world class after the last 18 months is absolutely beyond me. Take off your blinkers. Ronaldinho, Kaka, Messi and Henry have all gone missing on the big stage, but nobody disputes their class.

nekkidbibleman,
a Liverpool fan.

jesus_thats_gre · 21-03-2008 04:55AM

Gerard and Ronaldo do so with pure athleticism, more pace and power. Kaka et all tend to be to be more skillful players that get past players with drop of the shoulder and so on. They somehow manage to go on a mazey run that takes them past half the opposition.

Now, that is not to say that Ronaldo does not use skill to get past players but he is defo more about pace and strength in my opinion.

IrishMike · 21-03-2008 11:49AM

Sqaull20 wrote: »

Gerrard lol, the game would have finished 6-0 if Hamann didnt come on and baby sit him...

Gerrard was one of the main reasons they were down 3-0, didnt get near Kaka and Pirlo, letting them have total control, Hamann was the star that night...

Keane along with Shearer is very over rated....

Keane like Shearer was not that overly talented imo, Keane missed the champions league final because a much more talented player had a chance to bury them and when Keane did go blow for blow with a central midfield king he failed ( Redondo ) had the beating of him in every area..

I dont think Keane, Shearer or Gerrard have ever been the best players in their position in the world at any time..

Quite possibly the dumbest post ever posted in the soccer forum.
Ill trim it down for anyone that didnt read it
- Hamann was the star in Istanbul, Gerrard was crap
- Keane was overrated and not talented
- Shearer was overrated and not talented
- Redondo tought keane a lesson in old trafford in 2000 which means keane is
obviously crap, completely failed to mention the fact that keane beat Juve
on his own the year before in Turin.
- Shearer, Gerrard nor Keane have ever been the best in the world in their
positions.
Maddness
Mindblowing.

PHB · 21-03-2008 12:19PM

Kaka is extremely fast. He beats people with a great first touch, and extreme pace to get past them. I don't think I've ever seen Ronaldo drop the shoulder, because it doesn't really work for him, nobody watches his body, everyone watches his feet. Messi Kaka and Ronaldo all have very similar dribbling styles. Messi is probably the best dribbler in there, then Ronaldo, then Kaka. That's not surprising since the first two are wingers.
I can't understand how you'd compare Ronaldo to Gerrards dribbling style. Gerrard runs at players, and tends to run in relatively straight lines, like a central midfielder does. Ronaldo can go left, go right, go anywhere really.

I'm really confused as to how you can think that Gerrard and Ronaldos dribbling styles are in any way comparable.

jesus_thats_gre · 21-03-2008 02:47PM

Maybe I am wrong, not sure tbh. I have honestly not seen Ronaldo go on mazey runs like those you see the likes of Messi regularly go on.

I am not saying that their dribbling styles are indentical. I am saying that they both use their strength and pace to go past players. Ronaldo has quicker feet and tends to use that side of his games more. Zidane, Kaka or Messi, while obviously powerful and fast, have a different style in my opinion.

Charlie · 21-03-2008 03:20PM

Sqaull20 wrote: »

Gerrard lol, the game would have finished 6-0 if Hamann didnt come on and baby sit him...

Gerrard was one of the main reasons they were down 3-0, didnt get near Kaka and Pirlo, letting them have total control, Hamann was the star that night...

Keane along with Shearer is very over rated....

Keane like Shearer was not that overly talented imo, Keane missed the champions league final because a much more talented player had a chance to bury them and when Keane did go blow for blow with a central midfield king he failed ( Redondo ) had the beating of him in every area..

I dont think Keane, Shearer or Gerrard have ever been the best players in their position in the world at any time..

You my good friend are simply wrong. To score over 30 league goals a season, 3 seasons running, is fact alone.

I would certainly feel that at various stages of their carear both, Keane and Shearer, would be in the starting 11 (in their respective positions) of a World 11 team.

aidan24326 · 21-03-2008 11:53PM

IrishMike wrote: »

Quite possibly the dumbest post ever posted in the soccer forum.

I'd second that. To suggest that Keane was overrated is such nonsense that it's bordering on trolling just to get a reaction. While not necessarily the most gifted player skill-wise (relatively speaking) he was a midfield colossus who often dragged United through games almost singlehandedly, and has the medals to prove it. Shearer was a goal machine who would have walked into any team on the planet.

homerjay2005 · 22-03-2008 12:14AM

woooo232 wrote: »

Actually mate you were the first one to try and deny people their right of opinion by constantly calling for this thread to be closed.
Look stop with the BS. Post constructively in this thread that you wanted closed so much or dont bother posting at all.

listen "mate", please point out where i asked for the thread to be closed constantly? you will in fact find that about 6 or 7 other people, asked for this to be closed on the original pages. i asked why was there an other thread when there was one last week, there is a difference. i said one with 3 exclamations also, as in having a luagh to close the thread, you class that constant?again, seriously lacking facts and blowing off steam to act the hard man and try to make your self look cool and show me up, well you know wat, bring it f**king on "mate" :cool:

i was at 3 of those 4 matches, were you? in fact, how many times have u seen ronaldo play live, never??? ronaldo was also the best player on the pitch in the other 1(highbury). im saying he was the best player on the field in those 4 games and im sticking to my guns. if you want to bring up some poxy match reports, then fire ahead, we all have our opinions and if you want to go with somebody elses on a historical match report, then thats fine with me.

Thanx 4 The Fish · 22-03-2008 12:56AM

You said that he was man of the match and that he is the best player in the world "FACT". You are wrong on both counts.

He was not man of the match in the games that you said he was and do you know how we know ? because the man of the match is an actual award given to the best player in the game. It is an irrefutable fact that he was not man of the match at the games you said he was so at least take a step back, admit you were wrong, then get on with the argument instead of continuously moving the goalposts. In your opinion he was the MoM, fair enough, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Just as the OP is entitled to his and is unbelievably allowed to disagree with you.

As for the best player in the world "FACT" remark, I would laugh but I think you really do believe it.

Peyton Manning · 22-03-2008 12:57AM

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

You said that he was man of the match and that he is the best player in the world "FACT". You are wrong on both counts.

He was not man of the match in the games that you said he was and do you know how we know ? because the man of the match is an actual award given to the best player in the game. It is an irrefutable fact that he was not man of the match at the games you said he was so at least take a step back, admit you were wrong, then get on with the argument instead of continuously moving the goalposts. In your opinion he was the MoM, fair enough, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Just as the OP is entitled to his and is unbelievably allowed to disagree with you.

As for the best player in the world "FACT" remark, I would laugh but I think you really do believe it.

Whats so wrong with believing that Ronaldo is the best player in the world right now? Because you just happen to dislike him?

Thanx 4 The Fish · 22-03-2008 01:12AM

The thing about believeing that he is the best player in the world right now and saying that he is the best player in the world "FACT" is that they are two completely different things.

How are you to quantify such a thing ? Is he better than Lescott ? Nesta ? Cech ?

If it is a fact, then please feel free to prove it.

homerjay2005 · 22-03-2008 01:16AM

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

You said that he was man of the match and that he is the best player in the world "FACT". You are wrong on both counts.

He was not man of the match in the games that you said he was and do you know how we know ? because the man of the match is an actual award given to the best player in the game.

As for the best player in the world "FACT" remark, I would laugh but I think you really do believe it.

so every "MOM" is an award given out ya? so, one person picks MOM and then every single fan in the world has to agree with it?
for example sven goran picked MOM at the FA cup final in 2004 (not sure how picked it in 2005) and he picked van nist. the world and his mother knows ronaldo was the best player on the field that day. cos he got it wrong, does that mean ronaldo was not the best player on the field? just cos rooney actually walked away with with award in 2005, does that mean he was better than ronaldo? no it does not. im saying ronaldo was the best player on the field in those games and i stand by that, end of story. your moving goalsposts not me. i aint changed my story, your trying to do that. and yes, i do believe ronaldo is te best player in the world, millions of others do also. what is so funny about that? you dont respect my opinion and you constantly try to highlight faults in my posts, so this is nothing new. thanks for your feedback though. have a good day.

Peyton Manning · 22-03-2008 01:20AM

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

The thing about believeing that he is the best player in the world right now and saying that he is the best player in the world "FACT" is that they are two completely different things.

How are you to quantify such a thing ? Is he better than Lescott ? Nesta ? Cech ?

If it is a fact, then please feel free to prove it.

Cech is a good goalie, but without Makelele at his best in the Chelsea team he has been tested a lot more and not been as reliable as he once seemed. Lescott is a good defender. Plenty of better defenders out there so I dont know why you mentioned him. Nesta has been poor for Milan over the last year, as have most of their players, including FIFA's golden boy Kaka, so yes actually, I would say he is much better than those you have listed. Throw a few more names at me and ill be happy to keep up the debate.

homerjay2005 · 22-03-2008 01:27AM

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

The thing about believeing that he is the best player in the world right now and saying that he is the best player in the world "FACT" is that they are two completely different things.

How are you to quantify such a thing ? Is he better than Lescott ? Nesta ? Cech ?

If it is a fact, then please feel free to prove it.

feel free to consult his stats for the last 12 months. now compare them to any other player in the world right now, anybody come close? im sure theres loads of "facts" in there to keep you reading for a while.

heres another fact for you, he has just broke a 30 year old record at united, held by one of the greatest wingers ever to play the game. any other player in the world at the moment breaking records like that with at least 10 games to go in the season? if your unsure what stats or facts im referring to, ill gladly provide them for you. again, thanks for your post.

Peyton Manning · 22-03-2008 01:40AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

feel free to consult his stats for the last 12 months. now compare them to any other player in the world right now, anybody come close? im sure theres loads of "facts" in there to keep you reading for a while.

heres another fact for you, he has just broke a 30 year old record at united, held by one of the greatest wingers ever to play the game. any other player in the world at the moment breaking records like that with at least 10 games to go in the season? if your unsure what stats or facts im referring to, ill gladly provide them for you. again, thanks for your post.

Also, just to put how astounding breaking this record is, George Best had 32 in 53. Ronaldo has 33 in 37.

homerjay2005 · 22-03-2008 01:45AM

Archimedes wrote: »

Also, just to put how astounding breaking this record is, George Best had 32 in 53. Ronaldo has 33 in 37.

is that a fact ya?:D it better be, or we will be pulled up on it, we need to proove every on ere from now on:)

never realised bests was 53 games, jaysys, thats some achievement alright.

Bubs101 · 22-03-2008 02:08AM

But Best was more of a winger where as Ronaldo spends most of his time supporting a solitary striker

Thanx 4 The Fish · 22-03-2008 02:59AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

feel free to consult his stats for the last 12 months. now compare them to any other player in the world right now, anybody come close? im sure theres loads of "facts" in there to keep you reading for a while.

heres another fact for you, he has just broke a 30 year old record at united, held by one of the greatest wingers ever to play the game. any other player in the world at the moment breaking records like that with at least 10 games to go in the season? if your unsure what stats or facts im referring to, ill gladly provide them for you. again, thanks for your post.

And yet you have failed once again to back up your "FACT" with anything. If you say something is true and are challenged on it then either back it up or back down. You have already had to backtrack on one of your statements in this thread, you now know that you can do it, surely the fear of the unknown is not there for you any more.

He has done well this season and I do not deny that he is a class player with a lot more to offer but best in the world, there are better out there.

Fabiano, Benzema, Puyol, Nesta, Lucio, I could go on, and you could make excuses why each is not better than Ronaldo but just as you say that Cech is not a good keeper without Terry in front of him, Ronaldo would be nothing without a good defender behind him as he rarely gets back and a good striker beside him (let's face it he plays as part of a front three as much as he does an out and out striker) to take players away from him.

The Sparrow · 22-03-2008 02:15PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

again, seriously lacking facts and blowing off steam to act the hard man and try to make your self look cool and show me up, well you know wat, bring it f**king on "mate" :cool:

You do realise that this is an anonymous message board? How could anyone possibly act the hard man? I'm not trying to show you up... You are doing that all by yourself! "bring it f**king on "mate" :cool:" LOL:D

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i was at 3 of those 4 matches, were you? in fact, how many times have u seen ronaldo play live, never??? ronaldo was also the best player on the pitch in the other 1(highbury). im saying he was the best player on the field in those 4 games and im sticking to my guns. if you want to bring up some poxy match reports, then fire ahead, we all have our opinions and if you want to go with somebody elses on a historical match report, then thats fine with me.

Ok lets just take one of those games... Utd 4 Arsenal 2... are you seriously saying that Ronaldo was better than Roy Keane that night? It was of course the notorious Keane - Viera tunnel staredown game when Keane bossed Viera and Arsenal. I dont care how many live games you have been to... If you though that Ronaldo played better than keane that night you clearly know nothing about football. Or at the very least you may need to take a trip to an optician!;)

See the problem is that you started off by presenting your opinion as fact. You are of course entitled to your opinion but not to present it as fact. You are perfectly entitled to consider Ronaldo as the man of the match in any game you like. But when you present it as fact and attempt to belittle others it is not so cool. And then when I disputed your "facts" you started saying that I was trying to stop you having an opinion! When did disagreeing with somebody equate to trying to supress their opinion???? Ridiculous really!

grames_bond · 22-03-2008 05:37PM

woooo232 wrote: »

See the problem is that you started off by presenting your opinion as fact. You are of course entitled to your opinion but not to present it as fact. You are perfectly entitled to consider Ronaldo as the man of the match in any game you like. But when you present it as fact and attempt to belittle others it is not so cool. And then when I disputed your "facts" you started saying that I was trying to stop you having an opinion! When did disagreeing with somebody equate to trying to supress their opinion???? Ridiculous really!

yeah i have to agree with you! sorry homer but he is right! dont get me wrong, i am a utd fan and i do thinkj that ronaldo is the best player in the world at the moment for sure, he is better than he was last year and i can see the awards coming his way, he is an astonishing player and i dont think anyone is as good as him at the moment (and heres the three vitally important letters) IMO

All of this has been opinion and everyone is entitled to them! if you disagree with someone, fine but try get a discussion goin and not an arguement,
can't we all just get along!??!

homerjay2005 · 22-03-2008 07:08PM

this is just going to run and run, we are not going to agree and that is that. lets just say that we can resume this thread once the final whistle blows at OT tomorrow. im expecting ronaldo to be double marked by liverpool as the norm on all "big games" united play, but he will still show his class. im expecting no player to dominate the game, its too huge an occasion for that and it normally is and will be.

and by the way wooo32, this forum is not as anonymous as you may think, theres quite alot of people on here know each other including me. nobody may know you as your new to this place, but alot know who i am (i play with the forum soccer team amongest others), thats all i am saying.

viva ronaldo.

Thanx 4 The Fish · 22-03-2008 07:26PM

I would imagine the only reason we are not going to agree is that you are making outlandish statements. FACT/

homerjay2005 wrote: »

and by the way wooo32, this forum is not as anonymous as you may think, theres quite alot of people on here know each other including me. nobody may know you as your new to this place, but alot know who i am (i play with the forum soccer team amongest others), thats all i am saying.

Seems like you are threatening a member of the soccer forum there homer, perhaps you should tone it down a bit eh..

Mr Alan · 22-03-2008 07:27PM

lol

i dont think so T4TF

Thanx 4 The Fish · 22-03-2008 07:28PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

lol

i dont think so T4TF

And yet the tone of the post and all that lead up to it suggests otherwise. Anything else Alan ?

Uniteds Current Squad (Ronaldo, Nani etc etc)

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