Derry - Letterkenny - Sligo : Rail

Mint Sauce · 11-03-2008 12:19pm

Annatar wrote: »

Do you have ANY idea where that "Airport" is?
YE would be quicker to drive to Dublin airport than navigate your way over there...

it is a little bit out of the way isn't, but still quite a popular service

getting back to the railway idea, its good in theory, i'd love to see it, but unlikely to ever happen, as i said earlier, what would be better would be just to bring to line as far to letterkenny from derry, altough for just a short line on the donegal side of the boarder, it might just be seen as unprofitable,

and any route from letterkenny, would really have to be just marketed at those traveling though ulster, or on a western corridor if it was to be built that far, wouldn't be deemed a suitable alternative for most trveling to dublin considering the cost and time it would take compared to the bus service or road infrastructure, although i still use the train from sligo to dublin over the bus, but thats more of a comfort issue, but would be pushed to use a train service from dublin to letterkenny via sligo

as i commented ealier on the belfast derry route on rerouting it to link up with any letterkenny, i actually investigated this once as a route compared to the ulsterbus, was traveling from letterkenny to get a flight from belfast, when i rang translink to get the times and costs, was told i better sticking to the bus, as a quicker and cheeper service, tbh, i would have wanted to experiece the train route as had got the bus a few times, but the exsisting time table and time it took, plus the actual loaction of derry train station would have made it unsuitable for me at that time, and dont think translink have any plans to upgrade or reroute this section of the railway, last i heard, it was even unsure if it was profitable

still a great idea for a train route though, even though would be great to see, i would still have to admit, unlikly to ever happen

Annatar · 11-03-2008 1:29pm

While I agree, a rail line should never, and this goes for all projects, just be implemented without research etc, the focus at the moment does appear solely on commuter transport. What of commercial heavy goods etc?

Like a dog with a bone, I hate giving up on pet ideas. If viewed from the perspective of connecting Derry City to the Sligo line (and just happens to be via Letterkenny), would this, in your opinion make it more tenable?

I just get the feeling that for example, if two cities are connected by a single road, the first 50 miles are regional road status, the next 100 is motorway status, and the last 50 miles are again regional status. Would the population not bemoan the fact that the motorway is under utilised?!!! A waste of money?
When the fact would most probably be the lack of continuity. Join the dots kinda thinking. Bottlenecks restricts movement, restricts businesses. How much more will a total lack of interconnectivity restrict trade/movement? Facilitate a possible increase in movement of goods and people between the North - northwest to the West. Derry to Galway

Just a thought...

Annatar · 11-03-2008 1:32pm

Ohh and there is also the enviromental and social aspects too.

Hmmmmmmm okay that mightnt carry much weight. Just forget that!

Nostradamus · 11-03-2008 1:35pm

A regional light rail line from Derry Waterside to Letterkenny is a nice idea alright and should be part of any T22 programme which might come along in time. Not only could the line cross the Foyle on the current bridge no problem, but Derry would get a suburban service as well. Heavy Rail is a non starter. The Oirsh "Join the Dots" railway idea is like somethng out of Fr Ted. I am not knocking the OP as he is just ill informed of how expensive rail is to build and operate.

But just to humour the point...

So we knock a hole in the end of the trainshed at Sligo station for the 'Donegal Social Equality Express' to make its way to Galway (well Athenry in reality)...how do we do this without demolishing the centre of Sligo town? The CPO orders would be incredible. Sligo General Hospital and all the new shopping centres would have to be demolished. The new wing of the Niland Gallery under construction would have to go too and all the nice new shiny hotels. Once they have a path cleared to Sligo Station for the "Oirish circle of railway" they would have to then build a 'Loop Line' style viaduct which would completely block the view of Ben Bulben from the town centre.

Is anybody going to suggest a tunnel under Sligo town so people in Donegal can wave at the empty trains as they drive the 18 miles from their one-off O'Southfork palace to buy a carton of milk?

I would put it to the original poster that the reason why Donegal is a mess (which it isn't at all thanks to kind and genourus Jackeen taxpayers) is because of the Parish Pump.

Finally, cities create wealth, one-off housing creates dependency. If Letterkenny had a population of 100,000, then Donegal would no longer be a welfare county depending on handouts from the same Jackeens they hate with a passion.

Your politicians, priests, Irish language facists and journalists caused your own problems up there and stop trying to blame the poor feckers who spend 3 hours driving from Meath to Dublin everyday trying to make a living while a disused rail line is right beside them. They need it, you don't.

Although one thing I will agree on is the transport access to cancer services for people in Donegal is a genuine issue and is unacceptable. There should be a flying doctor service or something to deal with this. It's not right Donegal people with cancer sitting on buses for 7 hours to get treatment. So anything which would help these people I would be 100% behind, but a tokenist railway between Derry and Sligo is what politicians in places like Donegal love as it allows them to take people's minds off the real issues. I saw that constantly with the WRC in Mayo. It's as much of a political smokescreen tactic as anything else and I suspect certain politicians and media in Donegal are suggesting the 'Circle O' Railway' idea for the same reason. To hide their own incompetence and blame it on the Pale.

Same ol, same ol...

smashey · 11-03-2008 1:38pm

Nostradamus wrote: »

You caused your own problems up there

Wow, that's a pretty sweeping statement. Would you care to elaborate?

Propellerhead · 11-03-2008 1:44pm

Nostradamus wrote: »

The Oirsh "Join the Dots" railway idea is like somethng out of Fr Ted.

Seeing as there is a skeletal rail service in the country with a huge swathe without any rail service at all (Counties Donegal, Cavan, Fermanagh and Tyrone) due to the joint efforts of Ryan Tubridy's grandad and Sir Basil Brooke, then having said service is more "Oirish".

I feel sorry for a few deefers sweating that their pints in the Shelbourne might be a penny dearer as a result of properly integrating Donegal into the island's infrastructure. Actually, no I don't.

Annatar · 11-03-2008 2:00pm

Nostradamus wrote: »

But just to humour the point...

So we knock a hole in the end of the trainshed at Sligo station for the 'Donegal Social Equality Express' to make its way to Galway (well Athenry in reality)...how do we do this without demolishing the centre of Sligo town? The CPO orders would be incredible. Sligo General Hospital and all the new shopping centres would have to be demolished. The new wing of the Niland Gallery under construction would have to go too and all the nice new shiny hotels. Once they have a path cleared to Sligo Station for the "Oirish circle of railway" they would have to then build a 'Loop Line' style viaduct which would completely block the view of Ben Bulben from the town centre.

Is anybody going to suggest a tunnel under Sligo town so people in Donegal can wave at the empty trains as they drive the 18 miles from their one-off O'Southfork palace to buy a carton of milk?

I would put it to the original poster that the reason why Donegal is a mess (which it isn't at all thanks to kind and genourus Jackeen taxpayers) is because of the Parish Pump.

Finally, cities create wealth, one-off housing creates dependency. If Letterkenny had a population of 100,000, then Donegal would no longer be a welfare county depending on handouts from the same Jackeens they hate with a passion.

Your politicians, priests, Irish language facists and journalists caused your own problems up there and stop trying to blame the poor feckers who spend 3 hours driving from Meath to Dublin everyday trying to make a living while a disused rail line is right beside them. They need it, you don't.

Although one thing I will agree on is the transport access to cancer services for people in Donegal is a genuine issue and is unacceptable. There should be a flying doctor service or something to deal with this. It's not right Donegal people with cancer sitting on buses for 7 hours to get treatment. So anything which would help these people I would be 100% behind, but a tokenist railway between Derry and Sligo is what politicians in places like Donegal love as it allows them to take people's minds off the real issues. I saw that constantly with the WRC in Mayo. It's as much of a political smokescreen tactic as anything else and I suspect certain politicians and media in Donegal are suggesting the 'Circle O' Railway' idea for the same reason. To hide their own incompetence and blame it on the Pale.

Same ol, same ol...

Ooohhh where to start

"To hide their own incompetence and blame it on the Pale....."
first off, have no problem with people from Dublin and the East, they need infrastructure, grand, so do we. Politicians make the policies, and so far those policies have abandoned Donegal.

Ohhh guess what, I work in Sligo. I know where the rail station is. Demolish SGH and Niland gallery!!! Id hate to see the route you would plan for roads and rail. Im suprised you didnt have the Sligo - Letterkenny - Derry route passing through Islamabad.
Northwards from Sligo train station is pretty low on housing estates etc. More warehouse and its pretty close to the waters edge. Ok a bridge would be required but hey, at least you would save Sligo town centre.

Mind you, rebuilding SGH mighnt be a bad idea. seriously... if you only new how dodgy the building is.

Calina · 11-03-2008 2:03pm

Nostradamus wrote: »

.... The Oirsh "Join the Dots" railway idea is like somethng out of Fr Ted. I am not knocking the OP as he is just ill informed of how expensive rail is to build and operate.

I take a dim view of "oirsh" or "oirish" used to disparage people's argument.

It is possible to argue a point with out being disparaging of the opposite side.

Consider this a warning to attack the salient points of a post and lose the negativity about the opposite side.

Annatar · 11-03-2008 2:06pm

Nostradamus wrote: »

The Oirsh "Join the Dots" railway idea is like somethng out of Fr Ted..

So joining two cities, Derry and Galway by rail is madness. Okay...
(so it happens to go though Letterkenny, what the hey)

...damn that reminds me... a rail spur out to craggy island as well!

paulm17781 · 11-03-2008 2:10pm

Propellerhead wrote: »

I feel sorry for a few deefers sweating that their pints in the Shelbourne might be a penny dearer as a result of properly integrating Donegal into the island's infrastructure. Actually, no I don't.

So you want a handout. Good business case. I'm also assuming no planning is needed, Dublin can afford it? That's the mentality that stops investment in regions.

paulm17781 · 11-03-2008 2:12pm

Annatar wrote: »

So joining two cities, Derry and Galway by rail is madness. Okay...
(so it happens to go though Letterkenny, what the hey)

It depends on the route, long tedious train journeys are not favoured by commuters. The real traffic would be Derry to Galway, a route going via Letterkenny would be pointless as it would be too slow. I'm tiring of this now but your line would never happen as there is no case for it. I'm sorry if I sound rude or condescending but no matter how much you'd like, it will not happen any time soon as rail is only effective going through major population centres / retail areas etc.

Annatar · 11-03-2008 2:38pm

paulm17781 wrote: »

It depends on the route, long tedious train journeys are not favoured by commuters. The real traffic would be Derry to Galway, a route going via Letterkenny would be pointless as it would be too slow. I'm tiring of this now but your line would never happen as there is no case for it. I'm sorry if I sound rude or condescending but no matter how much you'd like, it will not happen any time soon as rail is only effective going through major population centres / retail areas etc.

Nah you are fine. You make very good points, and perhaps it county pride that blinds me to it.
Just when Government fails your county, you look to see what you can do yourself. Unless ideas are teased out, no matter how unpopular.... who knows whats possible.

Annatar · 11-03-2008 2:40pm

paulm17781 wrote: »

It depends on the route, long tedious train journeys are not favoured by commuters.

why always focusing of commuters? Commercial transport can utilise rail as well.

paulm17781 · 11-03-2008 2:44pm

Annatar wrote: »

Nah you are fine. You make very good points, and perhaps it county pride that blinds me to it.
Just when Government fails your county, you look to see what you can do yourself. Unless ideas are teased out, no matter how unpopular.... who knows whats possible.

That's it and I think you're dead right to try to do something but think about this. You came to a message board with some rail / infrastructure enthusiasts etc. here and your idea got shot down. If people who support rail development don't think it's a runner, how would you expect the Government. Honestly there are a bunch of better ways to get development but it generally all works on an economic way. Like I said, roads / industry / renewable energy (wind & wave) are all things Donegal should look at, by itself not the Government and try to lead in some of this. While there is scattered population and nothing there, plans like this will never work. If Donegal CC were to announce a big renewable energy (or heavy metals mine) development, you'd start to see big differences. Why not pick a fight you can win and go after Donegal CC for investment in sensible project that could benefit all?

Annatar · 11-03-2008 2:45pm

Nostradamus wrote: »

So we knock a hole in the end of the trainshed at Sligo station for the 'Donegal Social Equality Express' to make its way to Galway (well Athenry in reality)...how do we do this without demolishing the centre of Sligo town? The CPO orders would be incredible. Sligo General Hospital and all the new shopping centres would have to be demolished. The new wing of the Niland Gallery under construction would have to go too and all the nice new shiny hotels. Once they have a path cleared to Sligo Station for the "Oirish circle of railway" they would have to then build a 'Loop Line' style viaduct which would completely block the view of Ben Bulben from the town centre.

Is anybody going to suggest a tunnel under Sligo town so people in Donegal can wave at the empty trains as they drive the 18 miles from their one-off O'Southfork palace to buy a carton of milk?

I just remembered, rail line extends down to the dock and waters edge from the rail station already. No need to touch SGH, Hotels, Niland etc etc....
Unless its just for the fun of it

paulm17781 · 11-03-2008 2:48pm

Annatar wrote: »

why always focusing of commuters? Commercial transport can utilise rail as well.

Not a runner. There is little interest in rail freight in this country. I'm not going to go into it but we looked at it when I was in P11 and realized it isn't economically any more sensible than trucks in Ireland, you still need vans to get from stations to shops. Unfortunately commuters are the only way to make rail viable on this island of ours. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see less trucks but I really don't see it happening. The IRHA are a pretty influential lobby too, they're not going to let all their drivers lose their jobs.

Annatar · 11-03-2008 2:57pm

paulm17781 wrote: »

That's it and I think you're dead right to try to do something but think about this. You came to a message board with some rail / infrastructure enthusiasts etc. here and your idea got shot down. If people who support rail development don't think it's a runner, how would you expect the Government. Honestly there are a bunch of better ways to get development but it generally all works on an economic way. Like I said, roads / industry / renewable energy (wind & wave) are all things Donegal should look at, by itself not the Government and try to lead in some of this. While there is scattered population and nothing there, plans like this will never work. If Donegal CC were to announce a big renewable energy (or heavy metals mine) development, you'd start to see big differences. Why not pick a fight you can win and go after Donegal CC for investment in sensible project that could benefit all?

I posted here with an idea, thats all. I was looking for input both positive and negative on how or if it should happen.
I didnt post to preach a gospel of Donegal Rail, just to argue for it and learn from the feedback. All knowledge is good knowledge.

paulm17781 · 11-03-2008 3:02pm

Annatar wrote: »

I posted here with an idea, thats all. I was looking for input both positive and negative on how or if it should happen.
I didnt post to preach a gospel of Donegal Rail, just to argue for it and learn from the feedback. All knowledge is good knowledge.

Agreed, I'm just showing you how it won't ever work. I used to have several ideas of similar style, it was only when I began to look at economics I realized why somethings will not happen. I do encourage you to keep trying to get investment for Donegal but you have to realise fast frequent transport to population centres is what people need not silly orbital lines that go no where. You'd be much better focusing on getting Donegal an area of renewable energy, the investment that would propagate from that would be huge. This would also give Donegal a new economic value.

dermo88 · 11-03-2008 4:33pm

Donegal will only EVER get a railway through joint cooperation with Northern Ireland and the European Union. Whats more, it would ONLY be possible if it followed the old route, going Derry-Strabane-Omagh-Dungannon-Portadown.....but that formation has mainly been obliterated by roads.

Whats this passion for making Sligo some kind of Irish northwestern Crewe....you still have your railway, and it was a close run thing, as it nearly closed in the early 1990's. The railway to Sligo has been rebuilt, revitalised and it has come back from the dead.

Annatar · 11-03-2008 4:45pm

dermo88 wrote: »

Donegal will only EVER get a railway through joint cooperation with Northern Ireland and the European Union. Whats more, it would ONLY be possible if it followed the old route, going Derry-Strabane-Omagh-Dungannon-Portadown.....but that formation has mainly been obliterated by roads.

Whats this passion for making Sligo some kind of Irish northwestern Crewe....you still have your railway, and it was a close run thing, as it nearly closed in the early 1990's. The railway to Sligo has been rebuilt, revitalised and it has come back from the dead.

Sligo? nahh I had/have eyes set on rail for Letterkenny, links to sligo and Derry city. That was my focus.

However I've been given quite a bit to chew over. Ill see if there are ways to remedy any...erm... shortcomings.

Nostradamus · 11-03-2008 6:20pm

Annatar wrote: »

Ohhh guess what, I work in Sligo.

So do I. Anytime you want to meet for a chat and I'll gladly take you on a walking tour. Bring all the OS and engineering maps you'll ever need. I can being a counsin of mine who is a qualified engineer who worked on the Luas, Channel Tunnel Rail Link and Boston "big dig".

I am 100% serious. Your call. The real world is a completetly differnt place than esteroic transport musing on boards like this and others.

dermo88 · 11-03-2008 6:39pm

Thank you Nostradamus, you took the words right out of my mouth.

You see, this fantasy pastime of drawing lines on maps is called "crayonism". It is done by a certain faction on transport forums, who fail to see the harsh reality from an engineering perspective. It is also done by those with a certain love of the "cheat" function on SIM City, where cousin vinnie gives you $250,000 for some Megaprojects, and you can cut taxes to zero.

Reality is rather different. There is no harm discussing it. But you'd need the power of the likes of Nicolae Ceaucesu to do it. And we all know what happened to him

Annatar · 12-03-2008 10:36am

dermo88 wrote: »

Thank you Nostradamus, you took the words right out of my mouth.

You see, this fantasy pastime of drawing lines on maps is called "crayonism". It is done by a certain faction on transport forums, who fail to see the harsh reality from an engineering perspective. It is also done by those with a certain love of the "cheat" function on SIM City, where cousin vinnie gives you $250,000 for some Megaprojects, and you can cut taxes to zero.

Reality is rather different. There is no harm discussing it. But you'd need the power of the likes of Nicolae Ceaucesu to do it. And we all know what happened to him

Cousin Vinnie only lent than money to certain people in Manchester!Nostradamus, all Im saying is a line from Sligo Train Station already goes to the docks, extending this across the water by bridge does not seem anyway unreasonable.But hey, Ill bow to your greater knowledge in such fields.In truth it aint as if Im gonna make it happen anyways, but its a good exercise if nothing else.Even to my mind if extending from Sligo trainstation was unfeasible, what of returning down the same dublin line, perhaps a mile and switching to a new line.Or... and this'll make loads of friends, Build a new sligo train station alittle futher outside town. The old station is in a prime location, would get a good few shekels for it!:)

El Stuntman · 12-03-2008 11:42am

the only reason for building a rail link to Donegal would be to facilitate the building of a nuclear power station on the Inishowen peninsula

energy security for generations to come

ga2re2t · 12-03-2008 11:52am

Annatar, try to remember another thing. The fact that Sligo is called a city doesn't mean it's actually some form of metropolis. The latest CSO figures put Sligo's population at about 20,000. By international definitions, that's a small town. Granted, it may have a large catchment area but that still won't make a very big figure. Sligo is being pampered by actually getting a motorway all the way to Dublin, as well as having a pretty decent rail service which is continuing to improve (little by little).

Another thing, why would you actually want Donegal to get big infrastructure? Donegal is a beautiful picturesque county, with all its coast and rolling hills. It needs continued investment in upgrading local roads, signposting, village and town improvement schemes, broadband internet and renewable energy. Whereas the rest of Ireland has lost a lot of its character because of badly planned and excessive development, Donegal still has a chance to thrive in the tourist industry by offering a more stereotypic Irish experience.

Thanks to the upgrades to the N4 and the like, places such as Donegal town are only about 4 hours from Dublin. For the majority of tourists that's really nothing at all, as most of them come from big countries like the US, Germany and France where holiday driving trips of up to 12 hours are common. Also, Donegal has an airport, as does Sligo, where further investment could do wonders, particularly for local industry. Knock ain't too far away either.

Maybe I'm ranting too much, but I hope what I've said makes some sort of sense.

Nostradamus · 12-03-2008 12:32pm

Annatar wrote: »

Cousin Vinnie only lent than money to certain people in Manchester!Nostradamus, all Im saying is a line from Sligo Train Station already goes to the docks, extending this across the water by bridge does not seem anyway unreasonable.But hey, Ill bow to your greater knowledge in such fields.In truth it aint as if Im gonna make it happen anyways, but its a good exercise if nothing else.Even to my mind if extending from Sligo trainstation was unfeasible, what of returning down the same dublin line, perhaps a mile and switching to a new line.Or... and this'll make loads of friends, Build a new sligo train station alittle futher outside town. The old station is in a prime location, would get a good few shekels for it!:)

Never going to happen mate. Derry-Letterkenny someday in distant future, but never Derry - Sligo via the Barnsmore Gap. It would be the most pointless rail project in the history of modern Europe. Serious.

Nostradamus · 12-03-2008 12:40pm

El Stuntman wrote: »

the only reason for building a rail link to Donegal would be to facilitate the building of a nuclear power station on the Inishowen peninsula

energy security for generations to come

*sound of bagpies in the distance, Sinn Fein Eco Tourists packing their bags - mass sale of Donegal GAA jerseys currently happening - bugging of eyeballs and frantic waving of arms on RTE currently under development - Christy Moore tuning his guitar...*

Donegal would be the worst place in the world to even think about a Nuclear Reactor. The irrationality factor up there would be Rossport 5 x 1,000,000,000.

Anyways, this country is too backward, pathetic and hysterical to even think about something as logical as building nuclear power stations. Sure didn't even Eamon 'Neptune will light our homes!!!' Ryan go as far as banning even exploring Donegal mountains for uranium.

Anyways, back on topic, you don't need a heavy rail line for modern small nuclear reactors.

Nostradamus · 12-03-2008 12:44pm

ga2re2t wrote: »

Annatar, try to remember another thing. The fact that Sligo is called a city doesn't mean it's actually some form of metropolis. The latest CSO figures put Sligo's population at about 20,000.

and it had 22,000 on the eve of being rebranded a city. Sligo city status resulted in Sligo planners performing a breath-taking performance of one-off housing development all over the county.

That's 'Urban Planning' west of the Shannon. Frightening isn't it.

El Stuntman · 12-03-2008 1:04pm

Nostradamus wrote: »

*sound of bagpies in the distance, Sinn Fein Eco Tourists packing their bags - mass sale of Donegal GAA jerseys currently happening - bugging of eyeballs and frantic waving of arms on RTE currently under development - Christy Moore tuning his guitar...*

Donegal would be the worst place in the world to even think about a Nuclear Reactor. The irrationality factor up there would be Rossport 5 x 1,000,000,000.

Anyways, this country is too backward, pathetic and hysterical to even think about something as logical as building nuclear power stations. Sure didn't even Eamon 'Neptune will light our homes!!!' Ryan go as far as banning even exploring Donegal mountains for uranium.

Anyways, back on topic, you don't need a heavy rail line for modern small nuclear reactors.

let's build one of the old-fashioned sort (think Sellafield or Chernobyl) then, just to keep OP happy

Calina · 12-03-2008 1:18pm

El Stuntman wrote: »

let's build one of the old-fashioned sort (think Sellafield or Chernobyl) then, just to keep OP happy

Hardly constructive, don't you think?

Derry - Letterkenny - Sligo : Rail

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