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Derry - Letterkenny - Sligo : Rail

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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,294 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    in theory, its a good idea, but then so are most ideas, unfortunatly, there propbably would not be the demand or the population to make profitable servie from derry to sligo via letterkenny, probably a better idea would be to just up date the line from belfast to derry, or even consider re routeing it, with a spur or an extenion terminating in letterkenny

    unfortunatly you are never going to build a rail network to suit every route or every person, unless you want to run it at a loss, id love my self to jump on a train in sligo, and go to galway, letterkenny, derry, eniskillian, etc, but at the same time, i dont want to go on an extended tour to get there, the most direct routes are there to suit the population, and those deamed profitable
    ga2re2t wrote: »

    Distances
    Derry - Letterkenny: 30 km
    Letterkenny - Ballybofey: 21 km
    Ballybofey - Donegal: 30 km (but across rugged terrain)
    Donegal - Sligo: 60 km
    Total: about 150 km

    continuing with an idea good in therory, if you look to your left travling most of the ballybofey/donegal route you will see where the old railway line was, identifyable by either a ledge on the side of the mountain through barnsmore gap, and as a raised level mound through a lot of the feilds not already built on, am sure similar sights can be seen around other parts of the country where there was once a thriving railway network


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    where there was once a thriving railway network

    Alas there was never a thriving railway network in most of these parts, only marginal enterprises which hardly ever paid for themselves.
    The GAA. The 'county colours' mindset has done more to destroy the Irish national Irish identity

    So the GAA has destroyed Irish national identity, now I've heard everything!

    Transport policy and planning in this country does not have clearly stated principles, so it is any surprise that people don't see the basis for levels of expenditure in different places.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭Ham'nd'egger


    ardmacha wrote: »
    Alas there was never a thriving railway network in most of these parts, only marginal enterprises which hardly ever paid for themselves.

    Of all the counties of Ireland, Donegal had by a long way the least standard gauge track; a few miles on the GNR serving Ballyshannon and Bundoran and a small section towards Derry, with a stop in Lifford. I am unsure of a track mileage but I would say it would be less than 40 miles. It had two narrow gauge lines, the Londonderry and Lough Swilly Railway and the County Donegal Railway; the contrasting fortunes of each of them has been the subject of many books and thesis.

    The "Swilly" is still alive as a bus company and is one of the oldest public transport companies in Europe. It's railway always struggled for business and it was renowned for cutting corners. It began to lose ground when emigration and recession began to hit; many of it's lines being curtailed even before World War 2 and being replaced with buses. The DCR lasted until 1959 and was arguably the first rail company in the world to pioneer the use of diesel railcars. Run for decades by a enterprising man called Henry Forbes, for many years it was profitable, being well run and reliable yet flexible to change with it's trade. It only began to struggle when cars became more affordable and roads in Donegal improved in the 50's, it closing in 1959.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭popebenny16


    Yeah, well, when you're talking of one billion euro for two motorways and a railway line from Meath to Dublin you do have to ask who exactly is running the bloody asylum. In those terms, the O/P's idea isnt that bad. If the economy keeps heading south the only way those motorways and railway will be used is is they relocate the Navan Dole office to Ashtown.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,678 ✭✭✭jjbrien


    What would be a better option in this case if Irish Rail ran busses that connected with the train from Donnegal/LetterKenny to Sligo like what NSB does in Norway the buss only stops ar major towns and links up the the train. But then in this country they will never cop on to intragrated transport.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    Yeah, well, when you're talking of one billion euro for two motorways and a railway line from Meath to Dublin you do have to ask who exactly is running the bloody asylum.

    Yeah there is no doubt poor planning is responsible for the situation in Meath where there is a whole bunch of Motorways close to each other, but that doesnt mean its right, However building unneccessary Motorways to the northwest and railways between small population centres like the OP suggests would be a continuation of the madness.

    I think if the OP is serious then instead of Building the line why not plan for it to be built? using Cork as an example with the Midleton line, Cork Co.Co. planned for Carrigtwohill & Midleton to expand their populations massively, so that in time the numbers are justified so its obvious that the line has to be re-opened.

    maybe if the crazy priest and the rest of the WRC copped on to this idea and instead of demanding it be built now, they pushed for some sensible planning from the relevant county councils, in 20-30 years time there would be a compelling argument to rebuild the WRC. but oh no it had to be done now, ahead of the Metro, Interconnector, the aforementioned Midleton line being re-opened etc., what does that tell you?

    But i digress, maybe in years to come Donegal might get rail with a connection form Letterkenny to Derry if economic growth is stimulated in the north and Donegal can act as a suburban hinterland to Derry rather then looking to Dublin for connections.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭Annatar


    Lemmy see, so basically, there isnt enough businesses in Donegal to warrant good infrastructure?
    Course not having good infrastructure is a deterrent to businesses.
    Not only lack of rail... lack of good broadband, sufficient electrical power for industry...

    The county with the highest unemployment...

    Ye should be proud of your county be it Dublin Cork or Donegal. Yes take a national view point - "for the good of all". But there comes a time when blatant lack of investment is just purely taking the pi**!

    Why purely focus on commuter rail... industry could easily make use of a rail link Sligo-Letterkenny-Derry.

    Not to mention tourists


    Ok there are areas on the east coast that need more infrastructure, but by focusing solely on the east coast, more jobs go there, more people are forced to leave the west coast and move east to make a living, making things worse for the east coasts transport infrastructure.


    The whole bit about US naval bases was only in the event of Donegal's freedom from the Republic...hehehe


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭Annatar


    Is there any chance that Donegal's mad unemployment rate (celtic tiger my ...!) and its isolation are in anyway related???

    And whats a good cure for isolation? a good transport infrastructure.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭Annatar


    ....
    But i digress, maybe in years to come Donegal might get rail with a connection form Letterkenny to Derry if economic growth is stimulated in the north and Donegal can act as a suburban hinterland to Derry rather then looking to Dublin for connections.

    So screw fostering industry and employment in Donegal itself, lets just be the workforce for another jurisdiction.


    Hell, why not look to the North! we have more incommon with our fellow Ulstermen/women that with D4'heads


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    Annatar wrote: »
    Is there any chance that Donegal's mad unemployment rate (celtic tiger my ...!) and its isolation are in anyway related???

    And whats a good cure for isolation? a good transport infrastructure.

    And have you considered that the isolation and lack of infrastructure are down to the rugged terrain which makes it difficult to build? It all goes back to Geography, not D4 people hating you, that's a fallacy. Now, with the rugged terrain it would cost a huge amount of money to build, then run an unprofitable service such as what you are suggesting. You may disagree with this so I will personally donate 10% of the cost if you can raise the other 90% and get necessary planning permission.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭Annatar


    Parts of Donegal are pretty rugged, but not everywhere.

    Besides, if memory serves around 1900, there was approx 112 miles of track in Donegal, Its not as if the entire sligo-Letterkenny-Derry route would be greenfield.

    Nahh in truth, we know Dublin should get a good slice of money for infrastructure etc , its just exasperating that Donegal gets damnall.


    If we say nothing, we get nothing, if we do say something we get a cry of "ah you are just a few mad mountain men, living in a quaint county we sometimes like to visit, (not by rail) but not worth listening to"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    Annatar wrote: »
    Parts of Donegal are pretty rugged, but not everywhere.

    I'll admit to not knowing the area but I believe it is not flat. You need flat land for a railway or a load of bridges / tunnels. This requires significant cost to develop. Without population density you will never get this. If sustainable development were to pop up with urban centres along the route, that is the only way you'll get rail in those parts.
    Annatar wrote: »
    Besides, if memory serves around 1900, there was approx 112 miles of track in Donegal, Its not as if the entire sligo-Letterkenny-Derry route would be greenfield.

    Most of that was tram lines IIRC. Not suitable for heavy rail and as stated, the land isn't really suitable for rail.

    Rail is by no means a reason for investment, if your proposed line got built tomorrow, it doesn't mean industry will pop up. What sort of demand do you expect on Sligo - Letterkenny - Derry? Honestly, have you done any analysis on this? It would be a token service with low usage and nothing to support it.

    If Donegal needs infrastructure, the roads should be updated and effort made to increase population density in urban centres. Otherwise, it'll never happen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭Annatar


    Sligo and Derry have rail already, Im just joining the dots through Letterkenny which has virtually the same pop as sligo town (and there's not discussion about stopping that service.

    The population is there, both in Letterkenny+ county, Sligo and most definately Derry City.
    And it is a case of IF you build it the tourists will come.

    As for terrain, I know the road from Sligo to Letterkenny very well. There is nothing terribly mountainous about it.


    Laying the issue of rail in a siding... It still doesnt get around thefact Donegal has been repeatedly ignore when it comes to investment in infrastructure of any type. Its unemployment rate bares this out


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    Annatar wrote: »
    Sligo and Derry have rail already, Im just joining the dots through Letterkenny which has virtually the same pop as sligo town (and there's not discussion about stopping that service.

    Pre-existing lines. They would never be built today.
    Annatar wrote: »
    The population is there. And it is a case of IF you build it the tourists will come.

    No doubt. Could I see your reports and case studies on this? I see no proof for it and I see little to show that rail is even a medium used by tourists over air / coach. If there was any basis for this, it would be considered.
    Annatar wrote: »
    As for terrain, I know the road from Sligo to Letterkenny very well. There is nothing terribly mountainous about it.

    I'm not talking terribly mountainous. Roads can be whatever way they want, rail has to be flat or have gentle gradients. The trains in the north west would be like a roller coaster with the terrain that is there.
    Annatar wrote: »
    Laying the issue of rail in a siding... It still doesnt get around thefact Donegal has been repeatedly ignore when it comes to investment in infrastructure of any type. Its unemployment rate bares this out

    Perhaps, personally I think it is an unpleasant place for business aa it has little connections to the rest of the country, mainly due to it's terrain making this difficult. I don't doubt your intentions or your motives but if you are serious about this, drop the pipe dream tourism stuff. There is nothing to suggest this is true. This isn't the railway boom, an empty train will not bring development and tourists. If you really want to do something, try to get sustainable development built in Donegal. You'll get nothing without that. I don't mean to be dismissive, this is just economics. Urban centres and high density population are the only way to get rail connections these days. You'd be better off getting good roads built, not a pointless railway with no demand.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,855 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    Annatar wrote: »
    As for terrain, I know the road from Sligo to Letterkenny very well. There is nothing terribly mountainous about it.
    Errrrr, Barnsmore Gap? That was some MONSTER of a road building project to put the new road in there up in the hills.
    Annatar wrote: »
    Laying the issue of rail in a siding... It still doesnt get around thefact Donegal has been repeatedly ignore when it comes to investment in infrastructure of any type.
    Utter falsehood that and you should know it.
    a) IN Donegal you already have a pretty decent link from Sligo to Leterkenny, including the Barnsmore project, leterkenny bypass, Donegal By pass, Ballyshannon By Pass
    b) IN donegal the NRA has 15 Major national roads projects in planning/ constructed http://www.nra.ie/mapping/index.jsp?county=Donegal
    c) To donegal, N3 upgrade to Motorway, N3 upgrades north of Virginia, N2 upgrade, N2 link to M1, 500+ million euro Dual Carraige way project from Augnacloy to Leterkenny, ALL contributing to easier access to Donegal from the rest of the country.

    So heck, feel all upset about Donegal being ignored if you want, but the plain fact of the matter is that Donegal is benefiting from BILLIONS of euro of investment in road infrastructure, both inside, and on the way to the county.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    According to this
    http://www.buseireann.ie/site/your_journey/printed_timetable_pdfs/expressway/64.pdf

    there are 7 expressway buses daily from Sligo towards Letterkenny/Derry.
    This suggests a demand of 350 people. Assume that a train would increase demand you would get perhaps 1000 daily. Hardly an economic proposition.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭Richard


    Annatar wrote: »
    So screw fostering industry and employment in Donegal itself, lets just be the workforce for another jurisdiction.


    Hell, why not look to the North! we have more incommon with our fellow Ulstermen/women that with D4'heads

    Why not?! We'll let you in, if you let us build all our second homes there. We'll even let you speak Irish these days!

    :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭dermo88


    Annatar

    First when I see the word "Ye should", I immediately switch off. Thats dialect English. I will utterly ignore it. It looks parochial, primitive, backward and parish pump. I am not condemning you, but I am merely pointing out a minor defect on how you and your ideas will be perceived.

    Second, please refer to the Leaving Certificate geography textbook dealing with regions, and regional policies. Every country has something called a "Core", and a "Periphery".

    Third, travel broadens the mind, I advise doing some before asking any further for railways and the likes. Donegal is not exactly poor by European standards, and there are measures that can or should be taken to bring it forward. A railway is not even 5% of the solution. Some travel around some "Core" and "Peripheral" regions will show you where transport links exist. In "Core" regions you have railways, motorways, jobs, higher costs, higher salaries, and these exist because of supply, demand and economies of scale.

    Fourth, feel free to join your fellow Ulstermen in Stormont. It means you won't be a burden on the taxpayer in Dublin, and London can bail you out. Who knows, they might built you that railway. Good luck comrade :)


    I hope I have assisted you in explaining how things work in peripheral regions. There are plenty of different cases around the world to compare and contrast. When you have done that, then argue a case for Donegal based on rational thinking instead of illogical emotion.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    paulm17781 wrote: »
    And have you considered that the isolation and lack of infrastructure are down to the rugged terrain which makes it difficult to build? It all goes back to Geography, not D4 people hating you, that's a fallacy. Now, with the rugged terrain it would cost a huge amount of money to build, then run an unprofitable service such as what you are suggesting. You may disagree with this so I will personally donate 10% of the cost if you can raise the other 90% and get necessary planning permission.

    Holy ****!!!! Paul M is becoming the "you know who" (actually you probably don't) of Boards.ie.;) Only joking.

    Paul has pretty much outlined the engineering feats required and how the figures won't stack up. I have to admit, I originally came on here and had a laugh at the OP. I should apologise to the OP (Sorry), because they have been steadfast and polite amid much negativity. I wouldn't have lasted that long without inviting a ban. However Munchkin utd has delivered a killer blow with the list of road projects that benefit Donegal on a local and national level. I travel to Donegal regularly and have done since I was a child. I remember the Barnsmore gap when it was literally a bog road (and was until quite recently). Even the trip up the N3 or N4 just to reach the county was a feat in itself. But thats changing very quickly now and its clear to see that the main access routes to the county are being upgraded along with the link between Donegal town and Letterkenny. The only blip on that road investment is the N56 taking the nearly coastal route towards killybegs, glenties,dunglow, gweedore and falcarragh. That road needs major work and very quickly, beacuse these towns, though not big in size, are very isolated. The funny thing is most of them were served by rail in the past. This part of Donegal is starting to die and its sad to look at. A railway is not required to save it. A decent and safe road will go a long way to helping. In railway terms the following post from jjbrien I think, makes brilliant sense to me and is along the lines of something that I have suggested while with RUI, but I think a ticket machine and boogie took precedence.;)
    What would be a better option in this case if Irish Rail ran busses that connected with the train from Donnegal/LetterKenny to Sligo like what NSB does in Norway the buss only stops ar major towns and links up the the train. But then in this country they will never cop on to intragrated transport.

    With decent roads linking railheads to less populated areas, express and service buses can really open up rail travel for Donegal. Its similar to the concept of feeder buses to suburban stations. But they have to be dedicated services for Sligo train station and we must not be afraid to subsidise them. Derry station is not worth the hassle as Translink don't give a damn about the service there.

    If the original narrowguage railways were still in Donegal and in need of major investment, I'd be all for it. The Swiss retained theirs and look at them now. Wonderfully run lines. But we ripped ours up a long time ago and at the time it made sense. Remember that hindsight is 20 20 vision. I think the whole WRC thing is a bit like a disease that spread around action groups. The natural extension from Sligo was Donegal and then onwards. Its a concept driven by fantasy rather than reality. Its fair to say that back in the golden age of building railways, when challenges were the forte, some wealthy lord thought about it, talked to an engineer who pointed towards Ben Bulbin (for example) and then let the idea filter away. If it was a good idea that couldve made money, those 19th century pioneers would have done it. Donegal needs a lot of things to help it, but it doesn't need an expensive rail link and it doesn't need to get entangled in biblical, "build it and they will come" baloney. It needs improved road infrastructure on its western side and integrated public transport etc. But in saying that, so do many counties in Ireland. Donegal isn't particularly special, just different in terms of its geographical postion.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,835 ✭✭✭Schuhart


    Annatar wrote: »
    So screw fostering industry and employment in Donegal itself, lets just be the workforce for another jurisdiction.
    Indeed, or for another part of the country. I rather think that's the point. If we lose the county fixation, then it boils down to why we'd bother talking about rail to Donegal when we already have underused rail lines in Mayo only waiting for population to arrive.

    Which I think has already been pointed out. If rail is such a strong magnet for development, why hasn't stuff congregated around existing underused lines in other counties?
    Annatar wrote: »
    Hell, why not look to the North! we have more incommon with our fellow Ulstermen/women that with D4'heads
    Perhaps, although presumably then you need to explain why you think anyone else should particularly give a toss about Donegal.

    But, just to get a sense of how illusory your sense of neglect is, consider how Donegal has its very own airport, which obtained Government support, and how Government support has also been put in to Derry Airport. In fact, if you look at CSO figures you'll find that Donegal households pay €416 million in tax, but get €690 million back in social transfers (these include the imputed value of some non-cash benefits which accrue to households such as secondary and university education, free medicines and free fuel and transport for the elderly). That's a net gain of €270 million - which means not just that Donegal is a net recipient of Government support, but that its actually the highest net recipient of Government support.

    Donegal may be a peripheral area, but it most certainly does get considerable central government support. If you're not happy with the outcome, it may just be that your expectations are unrealistic.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    dermo88 wrote: »
    Fourth, feel free to join your fellow Ulstermen in Stormont. It means you won't be a burden on the taxpayer in Dublin, and London can bail you out. Who knows, they might built you that railway. Good luck comrade :)


    I hope I have assisted you in explaining how things work in peripheral regions. There are plenty of different cases around the world to compare and contrast. When you have done that, then argue a case for Donegal based on rational thinking instead of illogical emotion.

    So, by your logic, "peripheral regions" should just go to another jurisdiction?
    dermo88 wrote:
    First when I see the word "Ye should", I immediately switch off. Thats dialect English. I will utterly ignore it. It looks parochial, primitive, backward and parish pump. I am not condemning you, but I am merely pointing out a minor defect on how you and your ideas will be perceived.
    dermo88 wrote:
    Who knows, they might built you that railway. Good luck comrade
    Mmmmm. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭dermo88


    No, they should not go to another jurisdiction, that was a tongue in cheek remark. Personally, I prefer a Federal solution. People who live in regions are better off governing them, because the "one size fits all" solution does not work, and I do understand the resentment at decisions taken in Dublin, with a lack of understanding of conditions in Donegal. I happen to respect that. But decisions to solve the problems in regions are best solved on the ground. Innovation is a hallmark of people in the regions, they know the causes and more often than not how to solve them.

    Megaprojects such as Motorways and heavy rail links of this nature, are by their very nature, pernicious vehicles of political patronage and corruption. This is seen even in developed first world nations such as Japan and Italy, and both of these have roads and railways ending in ditches. I remember when the M50 ended in a ditch in Blanchardstown, and we must say "always remember, never forget". That ba$tard Haughey was Taoiseach when that happened. Ireland is not immune to that disease, as a good hard look at the professions of those involved in politics, their relatives, and their friends will prove. They did not make money saying prayers. If a railway is offered to Donegal, the steps will go as follows:

    Contract for survey goes to the Prefect who protected me from being bullied at boarding school, who is now a Fast food salesman, but we can pretend he knows something about surveying. We won't worry that the railway is meter gauge at one bit, standard gauge at another bit, broad gauge in another place again. Sure won't the EU sort that out. It will be grand :)

    Contract for land buying contract goes to the son of the professor who passed me when I should have failed. He is now a bookie, but we can say he is an accountant.

    Contract for contruction goes to the ****er who buys me the most beer at the Galway races.

    And....so on and so forth.

    But thats off the point.

    There are comparisons of heavy rail links built, at massive expense in peripheral countries. Some of these in recent times.

    Norway - The final section of the Nordlandsbanan to Bodo (opened 1961, but the project started before WW2 and continued during WW2 with slave labour)
    Sweden - Bothniabanan.

    BUT, these carry heavy Freight flows also, AND they also solve the problems imposed by harsh climatic conditions, such as snow and ice, which isolate population centres for months at a time. So short of finding a massive iron ore mine in the Donegal mountains, or Steel, Coal, or some Mineral thats in high demand in vast quantities, a heavy rail link, purely for passenger traffic won't be justified in the 21st century. Passenger and tourist traffic would result as incidental traffic, rather than for its own sake.

    While there are underused lines, they should be retained. Closing them is a poor decision. Maintaining them is wise. Developing further, wait and see. Expansion....lets do that where the people are, and work on that.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 68,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    We could easily mine Uranium (or is it Plutonium) in one part of Donegal, that *needs* rail to transport... right...? ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Nostradamus


    So this is just "joining the dots"?

    If that's all this is then please explain how the line from Derry will enter into Sligo station without demolishing Sligo General Hospital, two new multi-million shopping centers, the under construction Niland Gallery extention, the new hotel block, and without a 10 mile long elevated viaduct across the skyline of Sligo cutting off the view of Ben Bulben from the town centre?

    A tunnel costing a few billion under Sligo town?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    But you dont understand Nostradamus, if Dublin with its new luas', metros interconnector and other railway developments then its only fair that similar thought is given to all the other regions

    Now for Cork, i propose the re-opening of the west cork railway line, electrified of course and double tracked for future proofing.

    an extensive underground system for the city is a must.

    instead of going through mallow, i propose a cork crossrail streching from tralee-millstreet-macroom-bandon(this can be the interchange with the west cork railway)-cork-dungarvan-waterford.

    with that then we can have a few spurs to fermoy, michelstown and shanagarry caravan park & beach(for the tourists you understand)

    there we go, all population centres are covered,the dots are joined, of course this cant be done all at once but im sure once i whip up my local TDs, priests, IFA and other "interest" groups who all have a stake in the development of the region then we can move these projects into reality quickly, anyone got contact info for the West on track crowd?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭Annatar


    Errrrr, Barnsmore Gap? That was some MONSTER of a road building project to put the new road in there up in the hills.


    Utter falsehood that and you should know it.
    a) IN Donegal you already have a pretty decent link from Sligo to Leterkenny, including the Barnsmore project, leterkenny bypass, Donegal By pass, Ballyshannon By Pass
    b) IN donegal the NRA has 15 Major national roads projects in planning/ constructed http://www.nra.ie/mapping/index.jsp?county=Donegal
    c) To donegal, N3 upgrade to Motorway, N3 upgrades north of Virginia, N2 upgrade, N2 link to M1, 500+ million euro Dual Carraige way project from Augnacloy to Leterkenny, ALL contributing to easier access to Donegal from the rest of the country.

    So heck, feel all upset about Donegal being ignored if you want, but the plain fact of the matter is that Donegal is benefiting from BILLIONS of euro of investment in road infrastructure, both inside, and on the way to the county.

    Yes in the past few years small incremental steps have been made. The Ballyshannon bypass etc is pretty lovely. Barnes Mor is... not bad, if a little bouncy. But thats it. The rest of the roads either suffer from lack of upgrading or are just left to rot.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭Annatar


    Schuhart wrote: »
    But, just to get a sense of how illusory your sense of neglect is, consider how Donegal has its very own airport

    Do you have ANY idea where that "Airport" is?
    YE :D would be quicker to drive to Dublin airport than navigate your way over there...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭Annatar


    Roysh....
    If it was Letterkenny on its own, and the line was just ending there then yes, Id admit that it would most probably be a dead duck. At least for now. But connecting Derry City into the Sligo.... line would help the existing line as well.
    Derry city is what? The 4th largest city on this island? It has the population.
    Some of the responses are pretty good, makes one re-evaluate ones stance on such issues of much import to ones county. Others give weight to the whole Dublin/east coast conspiracy theory that is held to be true by the rest of the country.
    Its not that Donegalians dont know how peripheral we are, its just that with high unemployment, apparent government apathy, its easy to get a tad annoyed.
    Some say look at how much money the government pumps in to Donegal. We dont want it! We want to contribute to the economy. But the infrastructure to the outside world needs improving. Power, transport, Broadband. Until then it will stay cut off and unable to attract good industry....

    Oh and as for the word "Ye". I use it in the archaic sense not in the dialect.
    If you prefer Ill use thou in future...:rolleyes:

    Where do I get the mad idea that Donegal is ignored by government?
    Ms Harney visited Fruit of the Loom preclosure in her nice big helicopter. She couldnt be arsed to walk around the factory floor to at least commiserate. Afterward, as other parts of the country has since experienced, much was promised - little delivered. I remember hearing promises... Donegal No 1 priority... must get replacement industry. We will initiate a report....
    If that report exists, its probably much like ones in the HSE, being "implimented" ( after its been modified) by people already retired.
    Dead End


    Course we all have those stories.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    A pointless train line isn't going help. There are buses to Derry, are they helping? No offense mate, but this is a ridiculous idea with no research or thought behind it. Focus on roads, power, industry etc. but this idea will never get anywhere. Economically, it makes no sense and socially would make little. Find decent projects and support them, you obviously have an interest but with no facts, figures or cost analysis, you'll never get anywhere. :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,855 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    Something that nobody has mentioned is how prohibivitely slow and expensive it would be to get from Letterkenny to dublin via sligo if a rail link was built.

    Currently Sligo Dublin is 3 hours by train. Letterkenny Sligo is 2 hours on the Bus currently so a train on the same route would be roughly the same with all the stops that a regional non express service would make. All in all a journey of 5 hours or a shade under it.

    Compared to the current time of 4 hours on the Bus Eireann service. Which will be reduced further when Leterkenny to Monaghan is upgraded to dual caraigeway. AND the bus goes straight to the airport which a rail link would definitely not.

    If you look at the train vs bus patronisation of the Belfast Derry route, you'll see that customers will vote with their feet and choose the fastest route which in that case is the bus.
    It would be no different on the North West rail link.

    And another negative factor in practice is the likely cost of a train ticket to Dublin from Donegal by train when compared to the bus.
    Dublin Sligo is 38Euro, so adding 2/3s on top of that again makes a cost of 60 euro return for Leterkenny.
    Bus Eireann charges 25 euros, less than half of a probable train fare, to get you there quicker!

    Or, getting back again to reality, the majority of households in Donegal wouldnt be using Public transport anyhow in the first place, train, plane or bus, as they have a car or two which they already own and are paying for, sitting on their driveway ready to whisk them to where they need to get, DIRECT from DOOR to DOOR.


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