Evil children: guaranteed to be evil adults or capable of changing?

Dudess · 31-01-2008 01:52PM #1

I know it depends on each case but I've just received one of those petition emails concerning Jamie Bolger's killers. I personally feel nothing but utter disgust towards Robert Thompson and Jon Venables and am of the view that if they could do that at 10 years of age they can only do worse now in adulthood (they are 25/26). Thompson was supposed to have been the main instigator, Venables was just playing along apparently. I suppose that happens - kids can be led astray by other kids. But what they did to Jamie was so unspeakable I find it mind-boggling that Venables didn't stand up to Thompson. But Thompson is probably the truly evil one - so do you think someone like him is capable of changing their ways or not? I believe Venables probably does feel remorse.
I personally doubt Thompson is capable of changing - I've heard so many times that those who hurt animals as kids go on to hurt humans as adults, so if that gem is true, well I wouldn't like to live near Thompson...

the dee · 31-01-2008 01:58PM

I agree that what they did was unspeakabley horrible. But they were 10 years old! They've spent their whole lives since in correction facilities. I know these places can have a bad influence on people, but I like to think that they have learned something, that they know what they did was wrong and that they would never do something like that again.

I have no way of knowing if they have changed or not, but I think it's unfair to make them pay for their whole lives for something they did as children. It's unfair to think that people can never change.

humanji · 31-01-2008 02:22PM

Dudess wrote: »

I know it depends on each case but I've just received one of those petition emails concerning Jamie Bolger's killers.

It's not the one that's about 5 years out of date and makes up a load of the "facts" in order to shock people into action?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 31-01-2008 02:23PM

Dudess wrote: »

I personally doubt Thompson is capable of changing - I've heard so many times that those who hurt animals as kids go on to hurt humans as adults, so if that gem is true, well I wouldn't like to live near Thompson...

What are you basing this on? The rantings of a Sunday World jounalist and Joe Duffy? Have you seen the psychology evaluation of either man? Do you know what sort of supervision orders either one is subject to? have you tried to find out?

Perhaps you need to stop looking at the evil children and look at the evil society that creates them? With malicious gossip and hate-mongering...?

Where's the lo-ove?!

Latchy · 31-01-2008 02:27PM

What i find a bit disturbing is that Thomson has being in a relationship for several years and possibly married but his partner is not aware of his horrible past .So we are led to believe .

If true , imagine her horror if and when she finds out ?

Earthhorse · 31-01-2008 02:31PM

the dee wrote: »

I have no way of knowing if they have changed or not, but I think it's unfair to make them pay for their whole lives for something they did as children. It's unfair to think that people can never change.

I'm inclined to agree. Unless someone can produce proof positive that all adult personality traits are predictable from childhood then we have to assume people are capable of change. This is particularly true when children commit crimes in fact because so much behavioural and psychological development takes place during the teens and early adulthood.

WindSock · 31-01-2008 02:33PM

I don't think so. I imagine if I were ten, I could easily have killed a child. Now i work with them :eek:

Blisterman · 31-01-2008 02:37PM

I don't know if they're evil, but spending ages 10-21 in prison is bound to mess you up.

Crazy Christ · 31-01-2008 02:41PM

Don't believe in the concept of an 'evil person' but rather a person doing 'evil' acts.

Latchy · 31-01-2008 02:46PM

If all children were evil then they could all carry out such evil acts but there upbringing would have had a lot to do with it .Learning right from worng is one thing it's understanding the difference and being remorsefull for your actions is the thing .They are both on record as adults saying how remorsefull they are for what they did.

Dudess · 31-01-2008 02:58PM

humanji wrote: »

It's not the one that's about 5 years out of date and makes up a load of the "facts" in order to shock people into action?

Probably. Oh I deleted it immediately but it just reminded me of the case. Yes, that email is pure salaciousness.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

What are you basing this on? The rantings of a Sunday World jounalist and Joe Duffy? Have you seen the psychology evaluation of either man? Do you know what sort of supervision orders either one is subject to? have you tried to find out?

Hey, I'm not claiming to know anything, I'm just asking people what their views are. I'm not an "Evening Heralder" (see Wayne O'Donoghue thread).

Beetlebum · 31-01-2008 03:01PM

WindSock wrote: »

I don't think so. I imagine if I were ten, I could easily have killed a child. Now i work with them :eek:

Would you mind elaborating please? If you were 10 you could easily kill a child?

humberklog · 31-01-2008 03:07PM

Dudess you started with a heraldism and ended on one too. Those kids aren't as evil as your opening gambit was nasty,ill informed and blindly judgemental. I'm lucky enough to have a 4y.o girl. At hollowe'en i dressed her up as eva braun and together with her 4y.o cousin dressed as adolf they made a lovely couple. Now they looked evil..

Dinter · 31-01-2008 03:08PM

I'd say spending your formative years in prison would fairly mess you up. Isn't that why we have Juvenile Liason Officers etc these days? So kids don't have to go straight into St Pats or something because it's thought now that detention can have more of a detrimental rather that reformative affect.

AngryBadger · 31-01-2008 03:09PM

I think we have to believe that after X number of years in the system both will be rehabilitated.

However I think if they commit even minor offences again they should be back in jail.

I also think both sets of parents should have been sent to jail.

Latchy · 31-01-2008 03:15PM

Depending on which roumor you belive venables and Thomson are either in Leeds Ireland or Australia at the cost of millions to the taxpayer, both with new identities but with the Athorities knowing there every move .

Dudess · 31-01-2008 03:19PM

humberklog wrote: »

Those kids aren't as evil as your opening gambit was nasty,ill informed and blindly judgemental.

Bullsh*t. You seem to be forgetting what they did to that little boy.

I'm lucky enough to have a 4y.o girl. At hollowe'en i dressed her up as eva braun and together with her 4y.o cousin dressed as adolf they made a lovely couple. Now they looked evil..

If that's not a troll I'll eat my hat.

Ross_Mahon · 31-01-2008 03:20PM

Changing the killers whole identity when they are released is a first step, they should be given a job and some sort of part time college course to keep their mind active, And to be given special counseling along with some meditation classes.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 31-01-2008 03:28PM

Dudess wrote: »

Bullsh*t. You seem to be forgetting what they did to that little boy.

You seem to be proving our point, here? Nasty, ILL-INFORMED, JUDGEMENTAL?

Ring any bells?

david1two3 · 31-01-2008 03:35PM

Dudess wrote: »

I know it depends on each case but I've just received one of those petition emails concerning Jamie Bolger's killers. I personally feel nothing but utter disgust towards Robert Thompson and Jon Venables and am of the view that if they could do that at 10 years of age they can only do worse now in adulthood (they are 25/26). Thompson was supposed to have been the main instigator, Venables was just playing along apparently. I suppose that happens - kids can be led astray by other kids. But what they did to Jamie was so unspeakable I find it mind-boggling that Venables didn't stand up to Thompson. But Thompson is probably the truly evil one - so do you think someone like him is capable of changing their ways or not? I believe Venables probably does feel remorse.
I personally doubt Thompson is capable of changing - I've heard so many times that those who hurt animals as kids go on to hurt humans as adults, so if that gem is true, well I wouldn't like to live near Thompson...

supposed , apparently, I suppose, unspeakable, probably, Ive heard, depends, utter disgust, led astray, mind boggling. Oh and his name was James Bulger

Dudess · 31-01-2008 03:36PM

Just how exactly is it nasty or ill-informed or judgemental to condemn two kids for murdering a toddler? MURDERING - not accidentally killing like the Holohan/O'Donoghue case.
And I am bearing in mind that Venables was led astray and is probably full of remorse now.

LadyJ · 31-01-2008 03:37PM

Dudess wrote: »

I've heard so many times that those who hurt animals as kids go on to hurt humans as adults, so if that gem is true, well I wouldn't like to live near Thompson...

This is apparently true. However, it is my understanding that this would only apply to children who are not rehabilitated and rather to kids whose strange behaviour goes unnoticed or ignored until one day they butcher a child.

Kids are far more suceptable to rehabilitation while they are young. Adults prove to be more of a challenge.

Dudess · 31-01-2008 03:45PM

david1two3 wrote: »

supposed , apparently, I suppose, unspeakable, probably, Ive heard, depends, utter disgust, led astray, mind boggling.

Yeah exactly. I'm not stating, I'm speculating, I don't claim to be an expert, that's why I'm asking for opinions. Just like I've given mine - flawed as it may be. I know you'd LIKE me to be a Herald-reader type who thinks the case is just black and white but I'm not. I've been accused of being too PC on numerous occasions here.

Oh and his name was James Bulger

My mistake on the Bolger - I was convinced that was it. It even looks more correct to me than "Bulger". As for the Jamie thing, well yes, his parents always referred to him as "James", it was the gutter press that decided to christen him "Jamie" (similar to Maddy/Maddie) but in fairness, that's what we became more familiar with than "James".

Voodu Child · 31-01-2008 03:45PM

'Evil' children ? :rolleyes:

Dudess · 31-01-2008 03:47PM

Right so, poor, misunderstood, abandoned-by-society children - a society that drove them to torturing a small boy to death. Is that better?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 31-01-2008 03:51PM

Dudess wrote: »

Just how exactly is it nasty or ill-informed or judgemental to condemn two kids for murdering a toddler? MURDERING - not accidentally killing like the Holohan/O'Donoghue case.
And I am bearing in mind that Venables was led astray and is probably full of remorse now.

It is ill-formed, nasty and judgemental to comment on the potential evil of ANYONE'S character when you've never met them or heard anything recent concrete about them.

Half of your posts admit to wild specualtion, for Heaven's sake!

Voodu Child · 31-01-2008 03:53PM

Dudess wrote: »

Right so, poor, misunderstood, abandoned-by-society children - a society that drove them to torturing a small boy to death. Is that better?

Much better actually.

We aren't even close to fully understanding and agreeing on the whole nature vs. nurture debate....and even touching on what we do know is waay beyond the typical AH discussion.

They had a fukced up childhood, and ended up doing fukced up things....but they were still only 10 years old FFS. If anything, they were much better canditates for rehabilitation than adult offenders.

Beetlebum · 31-01-2008 04:21PM

Jesus, get off Dudesses case everybody. She has a right to na opinion on this matter much as anybody else has. How is she being judgemental exactly? She is looking for opinions and an interesting discussion and people are being pedantic twats saying..oohhhh...you spelt his name wrong..

david1two3 · 31-01-2008 04:25PM

Dudess wrote: »

Just how exactly is it nasty or ill-informed or judgemental to condemn two kids for murdering a toddler? MURDERING - not accidentally killing like the Holohan/O'Donoghue case.
And I am bearing in mind that Venables was led astray and is probably full of remorse now.

There is no obvious sign of you baring anything in mind other than the drivelish writing of hate filled hack stabbers and reinventing yourself as Mudder teresa in the last one or two posts doesnt work as having the thinking you do be showing here implies that your real problem is trying to distance yourself from the reality of the situation, that being that you were just as capable as these 10 year old boys of doing the exact same thing and if you make enough noise about it you would seem to be a caring person, whereas you really arent caring at all, as demonstrated by your demonising of both boys ,one more than the other. As all of these behaviour patterns are generally done subconsciously there is no need to utter front page denials to me or anyone else,just stop generalising on such an important subject and then backtracking like Neil Kinnock on the beach when you really are not equipped to know of the suffering of children and how they bring their experiences to the adult world. It occurs to me the only people incapable of moderating are those that want to, same for politicians, cops and leaders in general.

Latchy · 31-01-2008 04:27PM

Beetlebum wrote: »

Jesus, get off Dudesses case everybody. She has a right to na opinion on this matter much as anybody else has. How is she being judgemental exactly? She is looking for opinions and an interesting discussion and people are being pedantic twats saying..oohhhh...you spelt his name wrong..

Seems to be quite a few on Boards who are pedantic .

Recently sombody got annoyed about womon be refered to as wimmins , honestly :rolleyes:

Kinetic^ · 31-01-2008 04:28PM

As an evil child I threw the remote control into the fire. I now realise that a remote control is very valuable asset to a person. So yes, evil children can change.

Evil children: guaranteed to be evil adults or capable of changing?

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