Should Rafa go?

kida · 31-01-2008 02:58PM

0 improvement in the league - probably gone backwards. He has shown NO idications that he has what it takes to challenge for the league never mind win it. He jus doesn't seem to get the premiership.

FFS you are the same number of points behind the leaders as Sunderland are behind you. Is that good enough.

Sooner or Later · 31-01-2008 03:06PM

No (Liverpool fans)

I would give him until the end of the season. If he can't manage fourth place then he should go. He has had four years to assemble a team capable of winning the league and we are still not even remotely challenging for it.

Mr Alan · 31-01-2008 03:11PM

Yes

kida wrote: »

0 improvement in the league - probably gone backwards.

Actually Houlliers average points per game were: 1.4
whereas rafas are: 1.8.

So again, you are wrong.

going through a slump, no doubt about it, but jesus, we dont sack managers when we go through slumps, 3rd last year in the league and the CL final.

Rafa stays.

Helix · 31-01-2008 03:17PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Rafa stays.

hopefully

kida · 31-01-2008 03:21PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Actually Houlliers average points per game were: 1.4
whereas rafas are: 1.8.

So again, you are wrong.

going through a slump, no doubt about it, but jesus, we dont sack managers when we go through slumps, 3rd last year in the league and the CL final.

Rafa stays.

final league position

Chardee MacDennis · 31-01-2008 03:27PM

Yes

kida wrote: »

0 improvement in the league - probably gone backwards. He has shown NO idications that he has what it takes to challenge for the league never mind win it. He jus doesn't seem to get the premiership.

FFS you are the same number of points behind the leaders as Sunderland are behind you. Is that good enough.

kida wrote: »

final league position

its alright you can admit when you're wrong!

Benetiz has averaged 15.2 points more than houllier a year, sure we have definitely gone backwards.:rolleyes:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 31-01-2008 03:31PM

No (Liverpool fans)

Call_me_al wrote: »

its alright you can admit when you're wrong!

Benetiz has averaged 15.2 points more than houllier a year, sure we have definitely gone backwards.:rolleyes:

What's the average distance between the leaguer winners and Liverpool? It's not that we've gone backwards, we haven't, it's just that we HAVEN'T gone forwards.

Spud83 · 31-01-2008 03:32PM

No

What should happen: Give him backing in the summer, allow him to bring in 3 top quality players, while shipping out some deadwood. It should then be made clear from the owners to him that he has one more year to challenge for the title or he will be gone. Therfore he has no excuses, he was given five years, given good backing for two summers, with fairly decent backing for the others, either he can do it or he cant. (based on liverpool finishing forth)

More likely to happen: Rafa is going to quit at the end of the season and blame it on the lack of support from the boardroom. He will blame the owners for (possibly) a poor season, say they are not able/willing to take the club forward, that he can not work in an enviroment in which he doesn't have the full support he needs. So bye bye Liverpool, Hello Madrid.

leninbenjamin · 31-01-2008 03:42PM

No

the way i see it, is that at this stage whether or not Rafa is capable of doing the job is irrelevant. the atmmosphere seemingly is really sour at the club, and no matter who is right or wrong the fact remains if the board can't work with the manager then they shouldn't be in business together.

I think Rafa should go,although preferably at the end of the season. With the factions in place it's clear Liverpool have gone as far as they can under the current regime. a new face will divert some of the bad press and hopefully focus attention back onto the pitch.

Mr Alan · 31-01-2008 03:49PM

Yes

well then we should concentrate on getting the board out.

lordgoat · 31-01-2008 04:04PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

well then we should concentrate on getting the board out.

once you get it out, use it to beat a performance out of that team will ya.

herbieflowers · 31-01-2008 05:05PM

Personally I felt that Rafa would be going at the end of this season anyway, there's no real point in ridding of him now. I don't think he's the man to steer Liverpool to the championship title.

joe123 · 31-01-2008 05:11PM

No (Liverpool fans)

Mr Alan wrote: »

well then we should concentrate on getting the board out.

lol good luck with that. :rolleyes:

If the american owners hadnt done what they did we would all be on rafas back. We have made NO improvement in the league and just about scraped into the champions league knock out stages.

Have you watched how bad liverpool have played this season? Im not just on about the games we lost and drew....some of the games we won we were really bad.

And when youve got a manager who signs the likes of voronin and constantly plays kuyt...

Dont be at yourself · 01-02-2008 03:34AM

Yes

If the American owners hadnt created the circus that they did, then I doubt that Liverpool would be in the position we were in. Our league form only nosedived when the Rafa vs. The Owners handbags started.

I would be seriously depressed if by next season we were still under control of the yanks, having sacked Rafa and installed another manager. (Who? Mourinho? O Neill? Lippi? No thanks!)

oobydooby · 01-02-2008 08:49AM

Yes

He's the cause of a lot of his difficulties. His stubborn rotation policy (policy was ok but his reaction to criticism wasn't), stubborn refusal to play Crouch (dropping him when he's in form, persisting with a goal-shy Kuyt), his petulant public outbursts at the board (yes, if he'd been backed more quickly to buy two or three more players we might have won another CL last year). And of course his crappy league form (bottling against the big guys and showing too much respect to the cannon fodder).

Having said that, he's still one of the top European managers. Look at our CL record - he's moved us from UEFA cup bigshots to the elite CL teams. All of a sudden we are in the same tier as Madrid and Milan. Look at Milan's league position. For his achievement in Istanbul alone he's got at least another two years backing from me.

Despite all the bluster about Pool fans wanting to win the league, if CL qualification did not depend on the English league position, there would be no crisis. Why should Benitez have to prove his worth by beating the likes of Wigan, West Ham, Reading each week? If Inter hop us (as they should do on paper given our performances against Havant...) then it's time to reconsider Benitez. We should measure Liverpool against the cream of Europe, not against West Ham.

chopperbyrne · 01-02-2008 09:24AM

No

oobydooby wrote: »

Despite all the bluster about Pool fans wanting to win the league, if CL qualification did not depend on the English league position, there would be no crisis. Why should Benitez have to prove his worth by beating the likes of Wigan, West Ham, Reading each week? If Inter hop us (as they should do on paper given our performances against Havant...) then it's time to reconsider Benitez. We should measure Liverpool against the cream of Europe, not against West Ham.

That is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard.

If Liverpool don't consistently beat the likes of Wigan, West Ham and Reading then they won't be in the competition to be measured against the cream of Europe.

Manchester United, Arsenal and more recently chelsea are all better teams than Liverpool because they consistently beat the smaller teams and guarantee their place among Europes elite through league position.

When Liverpool won the Champions League a rule had to be changed to allow them play in it the next season because they weren't even good enough to finish in the top four.

Rafa is not the man for the job.

Dr Galen · 01-02-2008 10:13AM

Yes

maybe we've set the bar too high as Liverpool fans? There is nothing that gives us a god given right to win the title. The reality is that Liverpool entered into a period of major decline following Kenny D leaving.

When Rafa took over the team quite good, but certainly no where near league winning quality. Various holes existed all over the pitch with only Stevie G being close to a top class world renowned player. Since then, Rafa has vastly improved the spine of the team ( Reina, Agger/Carra, Masch/Gerard, Torres) along with adding decent levels of quality in the likes of Arbeloa and Benayoun. I'd certainly agree that players like Voronin aren't good enough to start, really only useful for coming on to save Torres/Crouch in the last 10 minutes of a 3-0 win.

Its the same old argument really, we could have bought Torres 4 years ago and used up pretty much all of the availible transfer funds at the time on that buy, but would it have made a major difference to our league position? I don't think so tbh. Adding big players like Torres every year over a short space of time (i.e 3 years) isn't going to make a vast difference if the rest of the team is sh1te. Yep, Rafa has his failings, and I've had my doubts about him recently, but I think give him a bit more time. As is posted above, back him in the summer, bring in more quality and see what happens next year.

Fans need to be more realistic though, we have to stop comparing ourselves to Chelsea and Utd whether we like it or not. We're not at there level, not yet anyways, on and off the field.

kida · 01-02-2008 10:32AM

nurse_baz wrote: »

maybe we've set the bar too high as Liverpool fans? There is nothing that gives us a god given right to win the title. The reality is that Liverpool entered into a period of major decline following Kenny D leaving.

When Rafa took over the team quite good, but certainly no where near league winning quality. Various holes existed all over the pitch with only Stevie G being close to a top class world renowned player. Since then, Rafa has vastly improved the spine of the team ( Reina, Agger/Carra, Masch/Gerard, Torres) along with adding decent levels of quality in the likes of Arbeloa and Benayoun. I'd certainly agree that players like Voronin aren't good enough to start, really only useful for coming on to save Torres/Crouch in the last 10 minutes of a 3-0 win.

Its the same old argument really, we could have bought Torres 4 years ago and used up pretty much all of the availible transfer funds at the time on that buy, but would it have made a major difference to our league position? I don't think so tbh. Adding big players like Torres every year over a short space of time (i.e 3 years) isn't going to make a vast difference if the rest of the team is sh1te. Yep, Rafa has his failings, and I've had my doubts about him recently, but I think give him a bit more time. As is posted above, back him in the summer, bring in more quality and see what happens next year.

Fans need to be more realistic though, we have to stop comparing ourselves to Chelsea and Utd whether we like it or not. We're not at there level, not yet anyways, on and off the field.

I think most fans accept that but they expected to be challenging for the title this season. Their current form is relegation form.

The last team you beat in the league was Derby
Before the reading game(8 dec) pool were 3 points behind Utd with a game in hand :eek:
Sunderland,Reading and Bolton have better home records
You have only won 10/23 games

Dr Galen · 01-02-2008 10:53AM

Yes

kida wrote: »

I think most fans accept that but they expected to be challenging for the title this season. Their current form is relegation form.

The last team you beat in the league was Derby
Before the reading game(8 dec) pool were 3 points behind Utd with a game in hand :eek:
Sunderland,Reading and Bolton have better home records
You have only won 10/23 games

I don't disagree with your post. Current form has awful. A major turn around is needed or we'll struggle to get fourth at this rate.

My points though are more in a general sense i think.

i also expected at least a stab at a title run but i can't say I'm surprised that we're not up there. As i see it, its the "BIG" three, then us as top of the chasing pile.

aidan24326 · 01-02-2008 07:53PM

No

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Manchester United, Arsenal and more recently chelsea are all better teams than Liverpool because they consistently beat the smaller teams and guarantee their place among Europes elite through league position.

That's exactly it chopper. This is where Liverpool have not performed. We all know they can beat Barcelona or AC Milan in a cup tie but it's the bread and butter stuff week in week out that has separated the top 3. United in particular are relentless against the weaker teams, Arsenal and Chelsea don't drop many points against bottom half opposition either.

Liverpool drew at home to Wigan, drew with Boro, lost at Reading, needed a scrambled late winner to beat Derby etc. Not good enough for all the money that's been shelled out. I'm not a Liverpool fan, in fact I delight in seeing them lose truth be told, but I do think Rafa's time is up. Some of the players he's brought in I wouldn't consider to be good enough to wear that jersey, and this is coming from a United fan. Pennant and Benayoun spring to mind, decent players but they'll hardly be remembered as Anfield greats in all fairness. Same goes for Kuyt who has been a flop imo, and these players didn't come cheap.

I'd possibly agree with poster above that he could maybe be given one more season (add a player or two in Summer) with a consistent challenge for the title as an absolute must.

x in the city · 01-02-2008 08:12PM

Liverpool are a sham at the moment, I am a blue nose but this is the worst I have seen them for a long time, they havent won in the prem since boxing day ffs.
Everton are far better than them at the moment, we are 4th on merit and looking good.

I would not be too surprised if sunderland beat them tomorrow they are that bad right now.

herbieflowers · 01-02-2008 08:34PM

aidan24326 wrote: »

That's exactly it chopper. This is where Liverpool have not performed. We all know they can beat Barcelona or AC Milan in a cup tie but it's the bread and butter stuff week in week out that has separated the top 3. United in particular are relentless against the weaker teams, Arsenal and Chelsea don't drop many points against bottom half opposition either.

Liverpool drew at home to Wigan, drew with Boro, lost at Reading, needed a scrambled late winner to beat Derby etc. Not good enough for all the money that's been shelled out. I'm not a Liverpool fan, in fact I delight in seeing them lose truth be told, but I do think Rafa's time is up. Some of the players he's brought in I wouldn't consider to be good enough to wear that jersey, and this is coming from a United fan. Pennant and Benayoun spring to mind, decent players but they'll hardly be remembered as Anfield greats in all fairness. Same goes for Kuyt who has been a flop imo, and these players didn't come cheap.

I'd possibly agree with poster above that he could maybe be given one more season (add a player or two in Summer) with a consistent challenge for the title as an absolute must.

I agree but his transfer policy...I mean you make a judgement call as a manger, you sign the players you think best suit your system and philosophy, I don't think Benitez is the kind of maanger who can get the best out the players he signs

Mr Alan · 01-02-2008 08:47PM

Yes

Should Rafa be sacked?

Answer: No.

herbieflowers · 01-02-2008 08:48PM

No. Not yey anyway, wait till the end of the season

Mr Alan · 01-02-2008 08:49PM

Yes

Should Rafa be sacked at the end of the season?

Answer: No.

kryogen · 01-02-2008 08:52PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Should Rafa be sacked?

Answer: No.

well, thats it ladies and gents, God on all rafa and liverpool matters has spoken, no more need for discussion

im gonna give you a :rolleyes::rolleyes: for that one al;)

Helix · 01-02-2008 08:55PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Should Rafa be sacked at the end of the season?

Answer: No.

if yis dont qualify for the champions league?

Nailz · 01-02-2008 08:57PM

No

As a United fan I think if Liverpool want to be more successful, then yes he should go... so then thats what voted, with honesty. But....

as I am a rival supporter, I want him to stay!

BaZmO* · 01-02-2008 08:57PM

Helix wrote: »

if yis dont qualify for the champions league?

What's this "if" business?

herbieflowers · 01-02-2008 08:58PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Should Rafa be sacked at the end of the season?

Answer: No.

No. After the end of the season, then he should be sacked

Should Rafa go?

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