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Should Rafa go?

2456710

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    No
    Stekelly wrote: »
    In fairness, we've lost the same number of games as Utd and Chelsea (3) . It's all the draws that are killing us.

    ah come on ste ffs, thats just clutching at straws. united are 17 points ahead of ye. why are ye drawing games? cos yere not good enough to win them. simple as that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    ah come on ste ffs, thats just clutching at straws. united are 17 points ahead of ye. why are ye drawing games? cos yere not good enough to win them. simple as that.

    I was purely replying to the part of PHB's post that kind of made it sound like we are losing week in week out. The difference between the teams is all the draws. Turnign them into wins is the hard bit. First step would be to play well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,365 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Yes
    Not right now, but if things remain the way they are now until the end of the season, then yes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    If Liverpool dont finish top 4 then he'll walk anyway I think.

    Mike.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭Washout


    As an Everton fan of course he has to stay.

    but for those who agree that he should go here are there arguements.

    1) he does not know his best team and is stuck on this constant squad rotation...look at Utd and Arsenal. team sheets write themselves week in week out. and these clubs look to blood fringe players in the carling cup.

    2) 17 million for mascherano..he is adimant he wants him but nearly every pool fan can see he aint worth it...why not Rafa.

    3) the unrest between him and the owners is doing nothing but ruining the moral of the whole liverpool organisation.


    in saying all the above, there is no point in changing a manager mid season though. just admit the league is over re-prioritze and see where things are at the end of the season.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,555 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Liverpool Just Lost 1 - 0 To The Hammers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    2) 17 million for mascherano..he is adimant he wants him but nearly every pool fan can see he aint worth it...why not Rafa.

    Find me more than a handful of Pool fans who think that.

    Mike.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    No
    i still think liverpool will get 4th and possibly win fa/ or do well in CL. its all set up now for them to concentrate on those. however, his days are numbered and regardless of what he wins/doesnt win, he is gone in the summer. its only a matter of time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,714 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Yes
    mike65 wrote: »
    Find me more than a handful of Pool fans who think that.

    Mike.

    masch is worth every penny of 17m imo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    snyper wrote: »
    Liverpool Just Lost 1 - 0 To The Hammers.

    No way. When?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,562 ✭✭✭leeroybrown


    I'm not a Liverpool supporter and I voted no but barely. I think that clubs should show a certain degree of patience with a manager and let them get it right and I don't necessarily think that whoever they would bring in would be a major improvement.

    That said I do think that a lot of Benitez's signings have been poor. There are obvious exceptions particularly Torres who has done far better than I thought he would do without a decent goal scorer to partner him up front. The problem is that he's signed lots of squad players. If you want to challenge for the League and CL then what's the point of spending around £6m on a player who won't dramatically improve your team when you need to spend £15m or £20m on one who will. Also, his rotation policy has seemed to unbalance the team whenever it started to look good for any length.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 481 ✭✭walshki


    No (Liverpool fans)
    He's not making progress. Players don't know what they're doing. We haven't won in 6. Our only hope is a competition we haven't played in in two months (I'm discounting the FA Cup). I think the more relevant question is why should he stay. We are no closer to winning a league than we have been in the last ten seasons. I can accept not winning the league but not making any progress is crap at this stage. And for anyone who thinks its just a bad patch, wake up, we haven't played well in the league in a long time. As someone else pointed out 10 points in 9 games is beyond a bad patch.

    Time to bow out and give someone else time to rescue our season. Much more likely is that he'll at least hang around till the Inter games - I just hope its not too late to get into a CL qualifying place for next season if that goes wrong.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭Jazzy


    Yes
    PHB wrote: »
    Personally I think he'll stay until the Inter games. A lot of Liverpool fans believe that they will beat Inter in the CL, largely because of Rafa's magic in Europe. However if they go out to Inter, I think the fans will start to turn on him.

    that sounds very possible tbh.
    no for the minute, id prefer any moves to be made in the off season. we will see come the summer


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,097 ✭✭✭✭Tusky


    Yes
    Washout wrote: »
    2) 17 million for mascherano..he is adimant he wants him but nearly every pool fan can see he aint worth it...why not Rafa.

    Is this a joke ? Theres so much wrong with it.

    In todays market, Mascherano is worth 17m. (Sissoko sold for 10, Carrick 17, Hargreaves 17, Anderson 17).

    Every Liverpool fan I know thinks hes worth it and wants Rafa to sign him

    Lastly, the 17m includes 4-5 years of wages making the real fee around 8-9 million.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 888 ✭✭✭Kanney


    Yes
    No, from a Liverpool fan, No... And those 3 who said Yes (Liverpool Fans), really only look at results as a week and leave it, they don't see what he has done for the club and what he has yet to accomplish. Bandwagon supporters when we won the Champions League, my guess.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    Yes
    Washout wrote: »

    but for those who agree that he should go here are there arguements.

    1) he does not know his best team and is stuck on this constant squad rotation...look at Utd and Arsenal. team sheets write themselves week in week out. and these clubs look to blood fringe players in the carling cup.actually rafa rotates no more or less than Ferguson or Wenger

    2) 17 million for mascherano..he is adimant he wants him but nearly every pool fan can see he aint worth it...why not Rafa.actually almost every liverpool fan i have encountered thinks that it is vital that we sign mascherano, and if thats at 17million, so be it, thats the rate for top young midfielders in world football BUT, the price is closer to £11million according to better sources than Andy Grey etc

    3) the unrest between him and the owners is doing nothing but ruining the moral of the whole liverpool organisation.agree-so lets get rid of the owners

    I honestly believe someone making such a stupid post should face at least the "possibility" of a banning.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭redspider


    Yes
    mike65 wrote: »
    I know no-one expects any great honesty in post-match interviews but if he really does belive Liverpool were unlucky (again) then he might as well go.

    You didnt vote Mike, are you undecided?

    Its 16-3 at the moment in the poll.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    No
    lol, one week

    Liverpools last 9 league games:
    Lost (West Ham)
    Drew (Villa)
    Drew (Boro)
    Drew (Wigan)
    Drew (City)
    Won (Derby)
    Won (Portsmouth)
    Lost (United)
    Lost (Reading)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    Yes
    I think you've started this thread just to send me into further depression :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    No
    Actually half of the reason was so that if you didn't want to talk about it, you could just ignore it :P


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,591 ✭✭✭✭cson


    As an Arsenal fan I only have to look back at the last two seasons, we we're in the exact same position. The difference between Arsenal last year and Liverpool this year? Wenger has unswerving loyalty from the board (and rightly so) and Arsenal had youngsters coming through.

    Liverpool are playing an ageing defence - Carra, Hyypia and Finnan are getting on in years. Personally (and this isn't just a knee jerk reaction from the match tonight) I think that Jamie Carragher is in decline. Himself and Hyypia are just not good enough for a side with title aspirations. I think Woodgate would have been an excellent purchase for Liverpool in this case.

    Now, Benitez has a Champions League under his belt and the owners undermining has destabilised the club somewhat imo. Lack of respect. By all accounts Liverpool could challenge for the Premiership beyond February next year with a few acute summer signings.

    Imo, 5 players are needed - A CB, Full Back, Winger and Striker.
    Here's who I'd pick out;
    CB: Woodgate
    Full back: Not sure on this one tbh
    Winger: Rafa Quaresma
    Striker: David Villa


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    Yes
    Agree with pretty much everything that Cson has said, thats an excellent post, except the centre half thing, we just need young Agger back and ready. Carragher is someone exploited when he is, in a sense, covering for Hypia, with Agger there, that problem doesnt exist. Plus agger also is able to bring the ball out, play with it at his feet and really partake in the building of attacks in a way that the other two arent.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Hell ya let him stay forever. He might produce a title winning side this side of the century.

    Liverpool are lucky that there isnt a team outside the top three having a really good season. They will have to fight for the 4th but i think they will get it, just.

    Also i dont get this crap talk about liverpool being unlucky. They were lucky at the start of the season when they were playing crap but coming out with wins. Now they are unlucky because they are losing/drawing games.

    (Penny drops!?)

    WAKE UP LIVERPOOL FANS. The team isnt good enough and Rafa wont get you a title either.

    I agree with PHB. The fans are hoping for another european adventure but i think this time around it will be very short lived. If they get hammered at the San Siro then fans will turn.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    Yes
    I love how fans of Arsenal and Utd think that because their team have been successful in the PL, they (the fans,who had nothing to do with the success of the team)are the ****ing ultimate authority of on who can and cant/ what tactics will and wont, be good enough to win a league.

    i cant make up my mind if its hilarious or sad as ****.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    as a non pool fan i have to say no, i actually enjoy the thoughts of playing liverpoll with benitez in charge, give him a job for life! and all the dirk kuyts that he wants


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,658 ✭✭✭✭Peyton Manning


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    I love how fans of Arsenal and Utd think that because their team have been successful in the PL, they (the fans,who had nothing to do with the success of the team)are the ****ing ultimate authority of on who can and cant/ what tactics will and wont, be good enough to win a league.

    i cant make up my mind if its hilarious or sad as ****.

    Maybe we've picked up on what tactics work having actually watched sides that have won the premier league as opposed to watching one who havent?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    i cant make up my mind if its hilarious or sad as ****.
    Well there is a forum for that.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=127


    However, most other fans live in the real world.

    I love how you mr alan seem to be the sole authority on rafa? Do you know what he is up to? Cause the rest of us are lost. So please explain his genius or get your coat.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,537 ✭✭✭joe123


    No (Liverpool fans)
    Kanney wrote: »
    No, from a Liverpool fan, No... And those 3 who said Yes (Liverpool Fans), really only look at results as a week and leave it, they don't see what he has done for the club and what he has yet to accomplish. Bandwagon supporters when we won the Champions League, my guess.

    I said yes and in no way am i a bandwagon supporter. Ive supported liverpool since i first started watching football and ive done so through thick and thin.

    It makes me laugh when people like you come out with comments like that. I only look at results as a week?.....yeah try going back ten games now. Not to mention some of the games we have won we played terrible. Think back to derby for example.

    I think Rafa should go and im entitled to think that.Its houllier era all over again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    Tusky wrote: »
    Is this a joke ? Theres so much wrong with it.

    In todays market, Mascherano is worth 17m. (Sissoko sold for 10, Carrick 17, Hargreaves 17, Anderson 17).
    .

    now there is something seriously wrong with your pricings there.... do i need to point out each individual one?

    just start you off on the first one, sissoko. 8 million

    not disputing masch's worth however, i think he is worth about 15 especially if its inclusive of wages!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,452 ✭✭✭✭Dont be at yourself


    Yes
    When Rafa was appointed just over 3 years ago, few would have given him a chance of winning either the league of the champions league for a good five years. Pretty much every Liverpool fan recognised that we were quite a long way off competing with Arsenal and Man Utd (and later, Chelsea) across all fronts.

    The squad he inherited was also aging, overpaid and lacking in talent. Djimi Traore was a first team player, as was the likes of Danny Murphy, Vlad Smicer, Igor Biscan. He was forced to sell Michael Owen - one of our 2 big players, and forced to bring in Cisse - a player he obviously didnt rate.

    Then, somehow, he managed to win the Champions League less than 12 months after arriving at the club. Rafa's greatest achievement also turned out to be his biggest cross to bear. That night in Istanbul, Rafa returned Liverpool to the top ranks of European Club Football - at least in the minds of the fans. In that amazing success, he perhaps raised expectations amongst the fans unrealistically. Despite the success, the squad was clearly a long way away from that of Chelsea, Man Utd or Arsenals'.

    And so Rafa has to set about rebuilding. We all know the whos and hows, and it is safe to say that he made some bad buys along the way. However, he shipped his flops out quickly and often at a profit, and he managed to improve the whole squad immeasurably on a relative shoestring. Some will say that it would be better to buy one great player than two or three good squad players, but such was the state of our squad, that virtually everyone needed to be replaced.

    3 and a half years on, and the squad is significantly better player for player. Our defence is now regarded as one of the best in Europe, and this is due in no small part to the emergence of Jamie Carragher The Central Defender under Benitez. Our central midfield is unrivalled in terms of class and in terms of depth. In Torres, it looks like we have the most clinical finisher at our club since the days of Fowler and Rush. The youth teams are full of promising youngsters.

    Are we there yet? No. Player for player, we're still short of the top teams, but we've closed the gap and we're within touching distance. We lack the killer ball in the final third. Until January, we lacked defencive cover. We lack a prolific partner for Torres (though Arsenal and Chelea both rely on a single forward to a large extent)

    Moreso, we lack belief. Off the pitch problems only amplify this. There's no doubt in my mind that both our form and league position would be better if it wasnt for the media storm that's engulfed the club since November.

    Rafa undoubtedly has his shortcomings too, but they're not terminal. His willingness to chop and change systems may work well in Europe, but it hasnt deliver the consistancy needed to win the league. He can be a little negative in terms of playing style. However, both of these can simply be put down to trying to make the best of the players he has at his disposal. In Reina, Carra, Agger, Gerrard and Torres, he has shown that he will play his truly quality players constantly and in their preferred positions whenever possible.

    My verdict? Give the man 5 years, as intended from the start. There's no question that the team has progressed under Benitez, and I firmly believe that he will get it right if he is given time, money and support from the club.


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