Fee Paying Schools

Dudess · 15-10-2007 12:35pm

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

cson wrote: »

do you actually get a better education (not leaving certificate result) than a community school for example?

Those who advocate private schooling insist that you do, but as I've pointed out OVER and OVER, all teachers receive the same training.

MikeHoncho wrote:

What my school had over others in the area was the facilities for sports, music, art etc.

All facilities that are provided by public schools. The state has coffers too.

Time Magazine · 15-10-2007 12:36pm

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

MikeHoncho wrote: »

Everyone has the right to a basic education and if you are willing to pay for the extra bits then why the **** shouldnt you.

Because it gives your child an advantage over kids who can't afford it. It's inheriting something; it has absolutely nothing to do with merit or equality of opportunity. It's not unlike a son inheriting a father's job.

Time Magazine · 15-10-2007 12:38pm

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

Dudess wrote: »

Those who advocate private schooling insist that you do, but as I've pointed out OVER and OVER, all teachers receive the same training.

You've pointed it out incorrectly over and over. It is not true. You don't go to university to be a second-level teacher. There is no training course to be a History teacher.

There are teachers with II.2s and IIIs from a three-year degree programs. And there are teachers with II.1s, Is, masters and doctorates.

Dudess · 15-10-2007 12:40pm

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

Yes, but the ones who have other qualifications outside of the h. dip aren't handpicked by private schools. They are just as likely to wind up in public schools.

dame · 15-10-2007 12:45pm

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

Ibid wrote: »

You've pointed it out incorrectly over and over. It is not true. You don't go to university to be a second-level teacher. There is no training course to be a History teacher.

There are teachers with II.2s and IIIs from a three-year degree programs. And there are teachers with II.1s, Is, masters and doctorates.

You don't do a doctorate to be a second-level teacher. You'd do a doctorate to be a third-level lecturer.

It could be argued that the teachers who aren't "geniuses" themselves would actually be the better teachers. They remember what it was like to sit in a classroom and not understand something. They realise that they may have to explain the same thing over and over or in three different ways in order for everyone in the class to get it fully. We can all remember inept teachers, who definitely knew their stuff but couldn't for the life of them explain something or see why anyone would have a problem understanding it.

stovelid · 15-10-2007 12:50pm

Undecided

eamoss wrote: »

I really enjoyed my 6 years (we had to do TY) there and I know if I had gone to any other of the schools in my area I would have hated my 5 years in them schools.

My parents where going to send me to a non fee playing school where most of my mates went to but they knew I wanted to do Tech Drawing and Construction which that school didnt offer and they thought I wouldnt enjoy my stay there. How right they were.

Like I said I was able to pick subjects that they didnt offer in other schools like I did GCSE P.E as well.

For my LC I had two big classes Geography (30) and Construstion (25) which was the biggest Construstion class my teacher ever had all my other classes had about 18 or so students in them like for Tech Drawing (10), GCSE PE (6) Business (18) and German (3)

If I hadnt gone to private school I know I would have gotten 100 less points than I did.

You should request a partial refund of your fees.

MikeHoncho · 15-10-2007 12:59pm

No

Dudess wrote: »

All facilities that are provided by public schools. The state has coffers too.

Yes but the facilities in the school I went to were particularly good especially for music which is why I went there.

And in response to the OP i think the notion of an unfair advantage is greatly exagerated. It is as much down to the attitude of the child and the parents as anything else. You can get a fantastic education in a public school if your willing to put in the work.

dame · 15-10-2007 1:36pm

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

MikeHoncho wrote: »

Yes but the facilities in the school I went to were particularly good especially for music which is why I went there.

And in response to the OP i think the notion of an unfair advantage is greatly exagerated. It is as much down to the attitude of the child and the parents as anything else. You can get a fantastic education in a public school if your willing to put in the work.

Which is exactly what most of us are saying.

Glowing · 15-10-2007 2:23pm

Undecided

I would never send my kids to a private school, especially if it was on Dublin South Side. I wouldn't want my kids growing up thinking that having 2 SUV's and 3 foreign holidays a year was normal. I know there are 'normal' kids who go to private schools too but to be honest, i'd rather they mixed with both the regular community and not just those with money. I know i'm probably generalising a bit however.

I'd like my kids to be grounded, know that life is not cushy or easy and that you need to work for everything you get. Not enough kids these days appreciate what they have.

Public schools are not always great I agree but you can always achieve what you want if you put the work in. I went to a convent school wtih no facilities, no proper labs or libraries and most of my friends and myself included got around the 500 points mark.

Edit: I've heard the new 'thing' nowadays is to send your kids to a Gaelscoil, just to avoid having Asylum Seekers in the classes (came straight from a GaelScoil teacher I know)

nesf · 15-10-2007 2:27pm

Undecided

dame wrote: »

You don't do a doctorate to be a second-level teacher. You'd do a doctorate to be a third-level lecturer.

Yeah, but you could do a doctorate and then become a teacher. There's a pay increase for having one I think.

Lizzykins · 15-10-2007 2:45pm

Undecided

Glowing wrote: »

I would never send my kids to a private school, especially if it was on Dublin South Side. I wouldn't want my kids growing up thinking that having 2 SUV's and 3 foreign holidays a year was normal. I know there are 'normal' kids who go to private schools too but to be honest, i'd rather they mixed with both the regular community and not just those with money. I know i'm probably generalising a bit however.

I'd like my kids to be grounded, know that life is not cushy or easy and that you need to work for everything you get. Not enough kids these days appreciate what they have.

Public schools are not always great I agree but you can always achieve what you want if you put the work in. I went to a convent school wtih no facilities, no proper labs or libraries and most of my friends and myself included got around the 500 points mark.

Edit: I've heard the new 'thing' nowadays is to send your kids to a Gaelscoil, just to avoid having Asylum Seekers in the classes (came straight from a GaelScoil teacher I know)

Hear Hear!!

coffee_cake · 15-10-2007 2:48pm

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

If I ever have children I would probably say a Gaelscoil just from the language aspect. Tbh I don't know anything about private vs public schools, I'd probably end up considering them school by school.

Dudess · 15-10-2007 2:50pm

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

bluewolf wrote: »

I'd probably end up considering them school by school.

Yeah, me too. I've nothing against private schools in general, just the people who insist they're the only option and then can't back it up.

cson · 15-10-2007 2:57pm

Undecided

MikeHoncho wrote: »

And in response to the OP i think the notion of an unfair advantage is greatly exagerated. It is as much down to the attitude of the child and the parents as anything else. You can get a fantastic education in a public school if your willing to put in the work.

Which is exactly what I've said in some of my posts, you can achieve anything within reason if you really want it. Which is why it puzzles me why people pay for education. Is it a mindset? That it must be better quality if I pay for it?

What irritates me the most is that the Government pays teachers salaries in private schools. Somebody argued in this thread that it eases the burden on public schools and some such. Perhaps, but this should not be the case. It throws up an interesting paradox too, when I've mentioned having an equal education system people rail against it, yet isn't government intervention (as in paying said salaries) the very antithesis to the capitalism most people seem to desire?

Dudess · 15-10-2007 3:10pm

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

There are all these excuses such as better education, better facilities, blah blah. However I think the real reason is not necessarily snobbery, but just parents wanting their kids to go to school with those from a similar background, who share a similar mind-set etc. Someone made the point that he and his sisters went to private schools in Cork (and in fairness, these are nothing like Blackrock College, Clongowes, Alex and the like when it comes to poshness!) because of the general ethos and common goals.
To be fair, I went to a public school in which there were many people who didn't place as much of a priority on third level education - it wasn't even an issue. College just wasn't going to happen in their lives. Going to third level was very middle-class at the time anyway. This was the first half of the nineties and fees hadn't been abolished (they were abolished in 1996, the year I started UCC - so my brothers, former private school boys and college graduates by then, got their secondary and third-level education paid for by the folks, I got nowt - cheers Mum and Dad!

)
However, by that same token, there were plenty of people in my school who DID strive to go on to third level. Nobody stopped the other. Although maybe there were some girls who could have excelled but got dragged down because of hanging around with the "byores" - but none spring to mind.
In fairness, a lot of private school pupils don't give a **** about study either but they still get into university because of grinds and those tuition schools. There are a lot of thick people in third level education. You can definitely buy your way in there.

cson · 15-10-2007 3:22pm

Undecided

Grind schools are a joke. A method of overcoming the even bigger joke that the leaving cert currently is. With the 'help' of a grind school it is quite concievable imo to get a high grade in some subjects with very little understanding of the subject.

dame · 15-10-2007 4:09pm

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

Dudess wrote: »

Yeah, me too. I've nothing against private schools in general, just the people who insist they're the only option and then can't back it up.

Me three.

dame · 15-10-2007 4:12pm

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

cson wrote: »

Grind schools are a joke. A method of overcoming the even bigger joke that the leaving cert currently is. With the 'help' of a grind school it is quite concievable imo to get a high grade in some subjects with very little understanding of the subject.

Definitely.

indough · 15-10-2007 4:25pm

No

Ibid wrote: »

What, do you want to see pay slips?

No. Just maybe a little something more than "I heard that..."

JC 2K3 · 15-10-2007 4:48pm

Undecided

cson wrote: »

Bearing in mind that the majority of these fee paying schools aren't mixed, do you actually get a better education (not leaving certificate result) than a community school for example?

A while back there was a poll in AH with the question "Can men and women realistically be mutual friends?". The responses were startlingly contrasting. One group of people had obviously attended single sex schools, hung around with members of their own sex and viewed the opposite sex in a totally different light to the other group of people, who could not comprehend how the others couldn't view a member of the opposite sex as a mutual friend.

Glowing wrote: »

I've heard the new 'thing' nowadays is to send your kids to a Gaelscoil, just to avoid having Asylum Seekers in the classes (came straight from a GaelScoil teacher I know)

Probably true in some cases, but that's not the reason Gaelscoileanna exist. In any case, you mightn't get non-nationals in a Gaelscoil, but you certainly get people from a variety of socio-economic backgrounds just like in any other public school.

Dudess · 15-10-2007 5:47pm

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

Aren't there some idiots who send their kids to gaelscoileanna because it's kinda "trendy" etc? Thought it was becoming quite the in thing within the D4/yummy mummy set.

tokyojoe · 15-10-2007 6:07pm

Dudess wrote: »

Aren't there some idiots who send their kids to gaelscoileanna because it's kinda "trendy" etc? Thought it was becoming quite the in thing within the D4/yummy mummy set.

Now the D4 yummy mummy set have special lunches every month to talk about how great all their little darlings are and how it would be great if everyone was like them. This is about 12 hours after their little darlings were arrested for pukin over the counter in spar. Please no one tell me Im jealous or I dont know what Im talkin about cos I have first hand experience....

Dudess · 15-10-2007 6:11pm

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

Yep, their little darlings who go to Blackrock College/Alex and blow/get blown at Wes discos.
But Spar?! What do you mean Spar?! Surely you mean Donnybrook Fair?!

tokyojoe · 15-10-2007 6:14pm

Sorry I forgot Spar, Abrekebabra and Molloys liquor Barn are excluded from the D4 development (exclusion) plan

ec18 · 15-10-2007 7:26pm

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

ahhhh i can't handle all the cyncism and sarcasm :P

Dudess · 15-10-2007 7:28pm

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

|Cookies wrote: »

:rolleyes:

You really can't say such types don't exist. I'm not saying everyone from Dublin 4 is like that. Hell, until very recently I was living in Dublin 4 (Ringsend, but... you know!)

Cheeky_gal · 15-10-2007 7:29pm

No

Dudess wrote: »

Yep, their little darlings who go to Blackrock College/Alex and blow/get blown at Wes discos.
But Spar?! What do you mean Spar?! Surely you mean Donnybrook Fair?!

I'll keep quiet lol :rolleyes:

Dudess · 15-10-2007 7:31pm

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

Actually my mum and dad were going to settle in Dundrum but decided to move to Cork. If they had stayed, they would have put me down for Mount Anville. Ahhhh!!! The accent alone would have hurt my ears for five or six years!

Sonnenblumen · 15-10-2007 7:38pm

No

Dudess wrote: »

Actually my mum and dad were going to settle in Dundrum but decided to move to Cork. If they had stayed, they would have put me down for Mount Anville. Ahhhh!!! The accent alone would have hurt my ears for five or six years!

pity you don't show any consideration for others here. I mean the pain is just.......

cson · 15-10-2007 8:51pm

Undecided

Well this is gone a bit sidetracked.

Fee Paying Schools

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