Fee Paying Schools

eamoss

No

Pinker wrote: »

Did they teach grammar in them schools:rolleyes:..?

Oh the irony

The name of my school is:

Dundalk Grammar School



Also im dyslexic.

eamoss wrote: »

No scumbags in Private schools only wanna-be-scumbags

In my year, there was just one real scumbag and then there was about 10 stoners. Then the wanna-be's would just get the pi$$ taken out of them.

Take for example the other school I could of went to were my friends went to. Was filled with scumbags, work was never done because they always refused to then the rest of the class suffer and this went on till the very last of 6th year. There was at least one fight everyday if not more and in my school I only saw about 5 fights in my 6 years there.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

It's the fecking LC ffs.

But when you are doing the LC it is a very big deal. Its only after you do it you find out that its not.

EDIT:
When I was in 6th year we had a teacher who was a 6th year when I was in 1st year. It was a bit odd TBH.

Sonnenblumen

No

cson wrote: »

(I would have put this in the Education forum if there was one, and I could probably have stuck it in the Leaving Cert forum but its the parents opinions I'm after really.)

I'm after reading a piece on fee paying schools in the Indo this morning. Over 25,000 students in Ireland attend fee paying schools in this land. We've had a lengthy debate on this over in the Leaving Cert forum and my opinions on this are steadfast.

I think it's absolutely ludicrous that the State helps pay the salaries of teachers in these schools, gives money to aid the building costs in Catholic schools and gives aid to Protestant schools due to their minority status. Having been educated in a community school myself I believe it's down to the individual mostly and that if you work hard enough you can achieve everything to an extent. Having said that having a two tier education system is against my principles. I would ideally like to see a more socialist type system where everyone is equal and oney cannot buy one into a supposedly "better" school. I can dream.

The main question I want to know though is, would you send your child to a fee-paying school? And if so, why?

Naieve and fundamentally flawed view that ignores the multi tier characteristics of the modern world. Socialist systems are repeatedly shown to be bereft of any responsibility, frequently favouring the sameness of a classless individual and sacrificing the development of the indidividual thinker.

Some fairy tales still comne true, but to offer your child/children the best in education is the fundamental responsibility of all children.

There are hundreds if not thousands of examples of damaged children denied real respect and consequently real opportunities because of a state system that is trying but failing to be master to all.

Recent demographics will acutely cause further damage to the state system.

Thank God we have a small but thriving private sector.

kittex

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Naieve and fundamentally flawed view that ignores the multi tier characteristics of the modern world. Socialist systems are repeatedly shown to be bereft of any responsibility, frequently favouring the sameness of a classless individual and sacrificing the development of the indidividual thinker.

This is a criticism made of all assessment based education processes.
In many subjects when you assume a right answer, you often exclude and inhibit original thinkers.
As a teacher myself, this can be a struggle, but one most teachers are aware of and try to overcome.

William Blake put it very well in his poem 'The School Boy'

"But to go to school in a summer morn,
O! it drives all joy away;
Under a cruel eye outworn.
The little ones spend the day,
In sighing and dismay."

JC 2K3

Undecided

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Naieve and fundamentally flawed view that ignores the multi tier characteristics of the modern world. Socialist systems are repeatedly shown to be bereft of any responsibility, frequently favouring the sameness of a classless individual and sacrificing the development of the indidividual thinker.

Some fairy tales still comne true, but to offer your child/children the best in education is the fundamental responsibility of all children.

There are hundreds if not thousands of examples of damaged children denied real respect and consequently real opportunities because of a state system that is trying but failing to be master to all.

Recent demographics will acutely cause further damage to the state system.

Thank God we have a small but thriving private sector.

You need a balance between socialism and capitalism. The key point here is that the children themselves have not worked for the oppertunity to attend a fee paying school, but rather their parents have. I'm all for capitalism, but you need a level playing field and equal opportunity until children grow up and are capable of earning money themselves.

Of course, I agree that the state system isn't perfect by any means and does need massive changes, but all that a private sector does is segregate children based on their parents wealth. Children aren't commodities, it's not right.

Sonnenblumen

No

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I'm all for capitalism, but you need a level playing field and equal opportunity until children grow up and are capable of earning money themselves.

Of course, I agree that the state system isn't perfect by any means and does need massive changes, but all that a private sector does is segregate children based on their parents wealth. Children aren't commodities, it's not right.

Whats level about the following
- children of criminals
- children who do not wish to be there in the first instance
- children who may not be intelligent and/or not willing to change
- children who have fundamentally differing political/religious beliefs
- children who not speak english
etc etc

If in order to give children the best chance, I'm for segregating the willing from the destructive, the determined from the purposeless, shared views from alien views and if it cost money so be it. What must it be like for a young Irish child to spend hours listening to foreign creeds whilst most struggle to teach or learn english??

A few years ago many teachers made a farsical but successful claim to being major contributors to Irish IT boom!! Not surprising they have as yet tov olunteer any responsibility for the subsequent IT slump. Now they are struggling to deal with a rapidly changing demographic situation and yet seek Gov support for owning a laptop. I mean most teachers have zero world experience and yet are given the privilege to teach the vunerable.

IMO as state employess they should stick to the knitting, do the job they are tasked to do, but if they do not like it, leave it.

The politicians are in charge of legislation and let private money create its own fortunes.

Dave!

I went to a public school and then spent a couple of weeks in Ashfield college (which helped me alot, I must say). When I have kids they'll probably go to public school too. If they need some grinds, etc., then I'd pay for them, but €6k is ridiculous money to pay for private school, when it's not necessary.

JC 2K3

Undecided

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

If in order to give children the best chance, I'm for segregating the willing from the destructive, the determined from the purposeless, shared views from alien views and if it cost money so be it.

What about the willing, determined child whose parents cannot afford to send them to a private school?

Demonique

Twinkle-star15 wrote: »

I go to a private school, because I had a choice between that and an all-girls convent school .

No contest really, I went to a nun-run school and it was a hell-hole. I was bullied for three years (at least) and that had carried on from primary school where I had been bullied for two years.

Some of the teachers were unsuitable for teaching, one teacher (a total crackpot loon, let's call her Miss O'Poole, not her real name) taught Irish. One day she didn't come in, the next day she came in and told the class she hadn't come in because her mother had died. The following day she was spotted driving in down with her 'dead' mother in the car beside her.

She used also give grinds. One of my mother's colleagues sent her son to her for extra tuition and he refused to go back after the second time because she had him feeding her mother and putting turf on the fire.
She had majorly stinky poo breath, if you sat two rows ahead of her at mass you could smell her demon breath. My father experienced this and said 'Saturday's morning on Sunday's breath'

You couldn't use the toilets in the fifth year pre-fab for their intended purpose because there were three girls in each cubicle, two smoking down the toilet and one on the toilet bowl keeping lookout through the window for the principal, who was tall with white hair.

It was a school in the Midlands, if you went there you'd know which school I was talking about

nesf

Undecided

JC 2K3 wrote: »

What about the willing, determined child whose parents cannot afford to send them to a private school?

If they are bright and motivated then they probably don't need small classes and could do fine just on their own efforts. Even just being bright and picking your subjects according to your strengths will grab you a lot of LC points to be fair.

JC 2K3

Undecided

If that's true, then what is Sonnenblumen's point?

nesf

Undecided

Your guess is as good as mine to be honest.

Sonnenblumen

No

JC 2K3 wrote: »

What about the willing, determined child whose parents cannot afford to send them to a private school?

What about them indeed? I mean if people choose to have children, they are also taking on all the responsibilities that goes with it including the cost of private education, where to live, how to provide a loving and caring environment etc etc.

Wanting and having the best are usually different.

dame

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

What about them indeed? I mean if people choose to have children, they are also taking on all the responsibilities that goes with it including the cost of private education, where to live, how to provide a loving and caring environment etc etc.

Wanting and having the best are usually different.

Right, so people shouldn't have kids unless they can afford private education?............Snob alert!

Sonnenblumen

No

nesf wrote: »

If they are bright and motivated then they probably don't need small classes and could do fine just on their own efforts. Even just being bright and picking your subjects according to your strengths will grab you a lot of LC points to be fair.

Such bright ones tend to be the exception rather than the rule. Also the picking of LC subjects is quite limiting. Fundamentally you are being wishful and ignoring a number of points. The public sysytem is fraught with difficulties and becoming increasingly more problematic. I mean the Holier than Thou PC Brigades if they succeed will replace an acknowledged well run Irish state (mainly religious ie Christian) with a Dolly Mixture of creeds and languages and ultimately it is the Irish children wihich will suffer.

It is there to be seen in several areas, the Irish child is at risk of becoming an alien within the local school system.

Sonnenblumen

No

dame wrote: »

Right, so people shouldn't have kids unless they can afford private education?............Snob alert!

No more snobbish than wanting to live in a nice house in a nice area. And yes more and more people are choosing NOT to have kids because they want to live a particular life. Is that UNSNOBBISH - hardly?

JC 2K3

Undecided

So you essentially think children deserve to suffer if their parents aren't up to the job of raising them well?

Your way of thinking is exactly the mindset which the private school system produces - disregard for the less fortunate and the inability to view people as simply people without taking their financial status into acount.

dame

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

So you essentially think children deserve to suffer if their parents aren't up to the job of raising them well?

Your way of thinking is exactly the mindset which the private school system produces - disregard for the less fortunate and the inability to view people as simply people without taking their financial status into acount.

Well said JC 2K3

Sonnenblumen

No

JC 2K3 wrote: »

So you essentially think children deserve to suffer if their parents aren't up to the job of raising them well?

Your way of thinking is exactly the mindset which the private school system produces - disregard for the less fortunate and the inability to view people as simply people without taking their financial status into acount.

Twisted logic, I never said that any child deserves to suffer. If the parents fail the child who's to blame? One's with money or those with no morals?

This country like England has for too long made it too possible for irresponsible people to have children. It is the Welfare State syndrome gone wrong, dreadfully wrong and children suffer as a result.

arbeitsscheuer

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

This country like England has for too long made it too possible for irresponsible people to have children. It is the Welfare State syndrome gone wrong, dreadfully wrong and children suffer as a result.

Whoa.
Just... Whoa.

And you accuse JC 2k3 of using "twisted logic"?

Jesus Christ.

ryanairzer

Undecided

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Twisted logic, I never said that any child deserves to suffer. If the parents fail the child who's to blame? One's with money or those with no morals?

This country like England has for too long made it too possible for irresponsible people to have children. It is the Welfare State syndrome gone wrong, dreadfully wrong and children suffer as a result.

So what you're saying is no children deserve to suffer, but if they have bad parents they should? wtf

Creachadóir

Undecided

It is very unusual for an unqualified Primary School Teacher to get a rolling contract now. There are too many qualified primary teachers in the country, and a Principal cannot hire an unqualified person if a qualified person applies for the position. All teaching positions must be advertised.

The wages in a number of the private schools are LESS than in public schools. Some staff do not get paid for the summer like they would in public schools. There are rumours that the working conditions in private schools are not as good as public schools. Therefore, it would be unusual for a teacher to take a position in a private school over a public school (in the Primary section).

I know of a person teaching Honours L.C. Chemistry and Maths in a private school, and she only studied Chemistry in first year in college (and only studied Biology based subjects after that). She didn't study honours maths for the L.C. herself. As far as I'm aware, most public schools only allow a teacher to teach as far as J.C. level if the teacher only studied a subject in first year in college.

Sonnenblumen

No

ryanairzer wrote: »

So what you're saying is no children deserve to suffer, but if they have bad parents they should? wtf

Try reading again.

Terry

Undecided

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Twisted logic, I never said that any child deserves to suffer. If the parents fail the child who's to blame? One's with money or those with no morals?

This country like England has for too long made it too possible for irresponsible people to have children. It is the Welfare State syndrome gone wrong, dreadfully wrong and children suffer as a result.

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Try reading again.

What I got from that is that you believe that poor people have no morals.

Dudess

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

Don't teachers all receive the same training, irrespective of whether they work in private or public schools?
And of course those who go to private schools excel - their parents can afford to pay for grinds and revision courses in those money-grabbing "tuition centres".
I believe it boils down to the facilities on offer, and the individual. Non fee-paying schools can offer excellent facilities, and private schools can offer no facilities. E.g. I went to a non fee-paying girls school in Cork that has excellent facilities, and there is only one private all-girls school in Cork - total sh*t-box with no facilities. Where does the money go? And why don't parents refuse to send their daughters there? Because they're bloody snobs, it's the only private girls school in Cork city, and God forbid that they'd send their girls to non fee-paying schools. Admittedly, some people probably send their daughters there because of family tradition, or they may have ties to the place, or a parent might work there.
On the other hand, my brothers went to a private school because there weren't any public schools nearby with such good facilities. Well there was one but we were outside the catchment area. If we were within it though, they would definitely have gone there.

Sonnenblumen

No

Terry wrote: »

What I got from that is that you believe that poor people have no morals.

I didn't say that either, and we are drifting from the main point. But to respond, in circumstances where adults have children despite being unable (for whatever reason - and financial resources is only one of a number) to provide safe, secure, caring and nurturing environment, then in such circumstances such people are demonstrating little morality.

On the otherhand, heroin junkies demonstrate no morals in giving birth to babies with heroin dependency etc.

If a children suffers it is the parents that should be held to account for such suffering. Lack of resources is not an excuse.

Dudess

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

As I said, my brothers went to a private school, and it turned them into insufferable snobbish brats for a while, but thankfully they grew out of it. However, many of their peers didn't.

nesf

Undecided

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Such bright ones tend to be the exception rather than the rule. Also the picking of LC subjects is quite limiting. Fundamentally you are being wishful and ignoring a number of points. The public sysytem is fraught with difficulties and becoming increasingly more problematic. I mean the Holier than Thou PC Brigades if they succeed will replace an acknowledged well run Irish state (mainly religious ie Christian) with a Dolly Mixture of creeds and languages and ultimately it is the Irish children wihich will suffer.

It is there to be seen in several areas, the Irish child is at risk of becoming an alien within the local school system.

JC 2K3 asked about willing determined children, my point is that the bright ones will be fine. Most of the issues you are bringing up have more to do with the nature of school systems than anything about the public/private divide. There is some research that suggests that adolescence is as much a product giving teens only other teens as peers as anything else.

Terry

Undecided

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

I didn't say that either, and we are drifting from the main point. But to respond, in circumstances where adults have children despite being unable (for whatever reason - and financial resources is only one of a number) to provide safe, secure, caring and nurturing environment, then in such circumstances such people are demonstrating little morality.

On the otherhand, heroin junkies demonstrate no morals in giving birth to babies with heroin dependency etc.

If a children suffers it is the parents that should be held to account for such suffering. Lack of resources is not an excuse.

So do you want people to go the abstinance route or the abortion route?

Should it only be people who can afford to spend four or five grand a year who are allowed to have children?

Dudess

If it was the Atari Jaguar school.

|Cookies wrote: »

6 Grand a year for the school i went to, kept the scum out anyway!

What a repulsive comment :mad: So being scum automatically means you won't have money - I think you'll find that's not QUITE the case. Your mindset - that rich equals respectable, poor equals scum - is just laughable.
Also, the facilities in your school can be found in non fee-paying schools too. In fact, the only school that I know of with next to no facilities is the private girls school in Cork city.
And (I need to put this in caps to attract attention): WHERE DOES THE NOTION COME FROM THAT TEACHERS IN PRIVATE SCHOOLS ARE BETTER? DON'T ALL TEACHERS RECEIVE THE SAME TRAINING?

Sonnenblumen

No

Terry wrote: »

So do you want people to go the abstinance route or the abortion route?

Should it only be people who can afford to spend four or five grand a year who are allowed to have children?

Terry - stay on topic and let's have less of the emotive deflections.

The world would be better for children if more adults took more responsibility for their actions.