trouble in hill 16

Smarmore · 12-06-2007 11:43AM

Waylander wrote:

Noone begrudges you an opinion, but when you say things like The hill should be bulldozed with all the dublin fans on it, and Dublin fans are a pack of animals, you are going to rub people up the wrong way. You will have to continuee your back tracking to calm some people down. I was not on the hill a couple of weeks ago, but I know the atmosphere that it creates in Croker is second to none when the hill is in full voice. Maybe you should go to a Dublin match and sample it for yourself and see if you maintain the attitude, cause at the minute it sounds like you are posting from a base of ignorance and heresay.

First of all I'm not backtracking at all. I think the atmosphere is very good in the stands as well and I was at the Dublin match in the Hogan overlooking the Hill in section 736 as I said already. So it's not ignorance or hearsay. I appreciate that the atmosphere can be good and I've been on the stands in the old Croker back in the day but it was always mixed. There was a sea of blue on the Hill the last day and it was segregation in all but name. You don't see fans of other counties going on with this kind of rubbish. Have you ever gone to Pairc Ui Caoimh or Semple Stadium and seen a bunch of Cork or Tipperary fans trying to claim a section of "their" ground and intimidate everybody else off it. That's just mob culture and that was the same mentality that developed in England years ago. Would you really like to see the day when you can't go to a Dublin game in Croker without being segregated from all the opposition fans? Because that's what will happen if you continue to defend this line of thinking. You say it was a minority but was it really? The English fans always say that don't they?

blackbelt · 12-06-2007 11:50AM

Yes Hawker I do agree that a fan should be entitled and able to go to any stand or terrace he/she wants in CP.I've often opted to go to the Lower Hogan instead of Hill 16 just for the banter with the opposition fans and the better view.You'll find the more laid back/sedate and friendlier fans in the Hogan or Davin that is not to say they can't make some noise.

I'm a ghost as far as the Cusack Stand is concerned.I haven't been in years and up until last year,I had not been in the Davin/Canal Stand for quite some time until the Mayo match.A curse that haunts me is that any time I've revisited a stand after a long absence,we've lost.

As a biased fan,I'd have to say that I'd prefer Hill 16 to be 80% real Dublin fans,no scumbags and the rest opposition.I just like the idea of having it mainly Dubs as thats where the atmosphere and craic is when we're shouting together or cheering together.

Waylander · 12-06-2007 12:50PM

hawker wrote:

Blackbelt,

You say you can choose to go to any part of CP. Well every other fan should be entitled to that same choice. And that includes Hill 16.

However in no way would I say that all Dubs on Hill 16 are scum. Yes there is a minority of them who would be less desirable. I stood on Hill 16 for a Leinster final a few years ago and I must say that I found 95% of the fans to be both witty and not offensive in any way. A bit of banter passed to and fro without any incident and thats the way it should be.

The GAA need to distribute Hill tickets equally between both sets of supporters no matter who is playing in CP.

Not certain on this but I think the tickets for the hill are distributed evenly, but most county boards return hill tickets for larger stand allocations. Smarmore there really is no compariosn with the soccer hooligan thing, the hill has been predominantly Dublin fans since the 70's, there are some scumbags in there, but there are also scumbags in all the other stands. I think you analogy is overly dramatic, and your arguement is pretty weak.

stooge · 12-06-2007 01:49PM

blackbelt wrote:

ROFL and LMFAO at Smarmore,sorry I took so long to post,I had to be helped off the floor as I was laughing so hard.

You really are a pathetic child.You're priceless.If anybody ever called me a scumbag to my face for the simple fact that I go to the Hill,they wouldn't turn their back to me without being more pissed off than me.As far as the other supporters are concerned,I'd say they'd paint Jones Road with your blood and rightfully so I say.I've no time for scumbags and equally I don't have time for trouble makers like yourself Smarmore.I'd be on my way while you get your comeuppance.They'd make you look more like a Dublin supporters,blue and navy black all over.For your own good,watch your mouth and what you say.

The fact that you brand everybody a scumbag is a true reflection on the type of person you are.You're a trouble maker and it is that behaviour that is classed as scumbag and hooliganism.You don't know the fans personally.There is a scumbag element on the Hill but your generalisation is sickening.I wouldn't like to know what you look like either.

I can tell you that but I guess you are right in a sense Smarmore,I do not know you and what you look like.You're probably some teeny bopper who listens to retro Spice Girls songs and whose big sister has to bring you to CP to keep you out of harms way.You probably run your mouth off and when it looks like you are in danger,you hide under your sisters blouse.

Nalced_Irl post just ripped the p1ss out of you.Your comment that Hill 16 should be bulldozed is 50 times worse than Lemlins claim to have it closed while Dublin are playing and your contradiction is hilarious.I'm sure a lot of scumbag Dub supporters would take a collective p1ss on you but if your behaviour is what you are really like then I guess your welcome to it.

Dont like this post one bit - I thought personal abuse was forbidden?
Not a wonder we have trouble at matches with comments like this.

Anyway, back to the original topic. No matter what county the fans are from, the stadium or part of the stadium, any throwing of objects should be seriuosly investigated by the GAA. The trouble with the hill is that it is not allocated seating. With the other stands, the CCTV can pick out a certain seat and trace the seat number to a county board or particular fan. Not so with the Hill.

Lots of countries and sports look at Football and hurling matches to see how fans can integrate and have a bit of banter without turning to violence. Name calling, giving fingers and other signs arent nice but in truth they are part and parcel of most matches...throwing missiles is taking it too far. As the saying goes

" Sticks and stones may break my bones....names will never hurt me"

WRT the Hill being mostly for Dublin fans, I have no problem with that, its one of the best sights in football to see the sea of blue in the hill. Even though I'm not a supporter Ive been in there quite a few times and the atmosphere was good, despite the obvious troublemakers (mostly under 20 but some older elements).

I suppose responsibility lies with the Garda, county boards and GAA to ty to reduce if not eliminate the missile throwers, no matter what country they come from. Also, for the good of the game it would be great for someone to actually have the balls to stand up and report the person beside them for throwing missiles, even if that person 'supported' your own team. Idealistic? maybe but worth a try.

popebenny16 · 12-06-2007 02:18PM

Smarmore wrote:

I may be wrong but I can pretty much guarantee I've been to more stadiums in this country than any Dub that was on Hill 16 last week.

I'll take you up on that challange, mister.

Jibber · 12-06-2007 02:23PM

as will I.

Macca206 · 12-06-2007 02:31PM

I was on the Hill for the Dublin v Tyrone game couple years back and when tyrone scored a goal bottles rained down on a section of tyrone fans in the cusack. They were mainly families or kids and did nothing but celebrate a goal for their team and were not on the hill. Too much of the Dub support try to model themselves on english football fans.

Jibber · 12-06-2007 02:34PM

Macca206 wrote:

I was on the Hill for the Dublin v Tyrone game couple years back and when tyrone scored a goal bottles rained down on a section of tyrone fans in the cusack. They were mainly families or kids and did nothing but celebrate a goal for their team and were not on the hill. Too much of the Dub support try to model themselves on english football fans.

has to be said there's a lot of truth in that, still doesn't mean that you can tar us all with the same brush though. there's a good few of that type, but they're nevertheless an overwhelming minority.

Macca206 · 12-06-2007 02:39PM

Jibber wrote:

has to be said there's a lot of truth in that, still doesn't mean that you can tar us all with the same brush though. there's a good few of that type, but they're nevertheless an overwhelming minority.

Of course.. you could never tar everyone with the same brush but while Dublin have say 5% idiots who would cause trouble every other county has 0.05%

Waylander · 12-06-2007 02:40PM

Macca206 wrote:

Of course.. you could never tar everyone with the same brush but while Dublin have say 5% idiots who would cause trouble every other county has 0.05%

Not true, they just have less fans. There have been other incidents of bottle throwing, from stands at matches that did not provoke 5 page threads on this forum. Alot of posters here love to hate the dubs, and that is what this is all about really.

Jibber · 12-06-2007 02:43PM

Macca206 wrote:

Of course.. you could never tar everyone with the same brush but while Dublin have say 5% idiots who would cause trouble every other county has 0.05%

ridicolous makey-up statistics!

Smarmore · 12-06-2007 02:50PM

Macca206 wrote:

Of course.. you could never tar everyone with the same brush but while Dublin have say 5% idiots who would cause trouble every other county has 0.05%

And what percentage of that 5% frequent the Hill? The main problem is that you have a large gang of youths together in one area. That's the environment where mob mentality kicks in with no-one there to stop it. If the Hill was proportioned properly with rival fans the whole bottle throwing scenario would never happen. If it happened in any other ground or area of Croke Park it would inevitably be an isolated incident. The authorities would take action and most other fans would probably bollock them out of it for being scumbags. But when someone does it in a large group like that others that may be borderline scumbags will join in as well or get caught up in the atmosphere. That's why the Hill 16 incidents look so much worse than any small, isolated incidents.

TheBigLebowski · 12-06-2007 02:55PM

Macca206 wrote:

Too much of the Dub support try to model themselves on english football fans.

As a Dublin fan who regularly visits the Hill, I'd have to agree with this. I've even noticed that a lot of the songs are sung with English accents, usually cos they've been taken from English terraces and modified. Also they have songs with words like 'barmy' in it. Hardly a good dublin slang term is it?

Smarmore · 12-06-2007 02:56PM

popebenny16 wrote:

I'll take you up on that challange, mister.

jibber wrote:

as will I.

I think we'd have to start a new thread for that lads. I'm not going to let the thread descending into a boring sunshine supporters argument. There was a huge number of Dublin fans on the Hill getting soaked the last day. Poor wee fellas!! I don't agree with that argument anyway, every county has that in proportion. My point in saying that was the whole territorial siege mentality some Dubs have with Hill 16. Some of them don't know what it's like to go to a game where they're forced to integrate and mingle with rival fans.

Jibber · 12-06-2007 02:58PM

TheBigLebowski wrote:

As a Dublin fan who regularly visits the Hill, I'd have to agree with this. I've even noticed that a lot of the songs are sung with English accents, usually cos they've been taken from English terraces and modified. Also they have songs with words like 'barmy' in it. Hardly a good dublin slang term is it?

songs from films like ID and The Football Factory, makes me cringe listening to them, but i say again it's a small minority.

Macca206 · 12-06-2007 03:14PM

Jibber wrote:

ridicolous makey-up statistics!

Yeah the stats were made up but im sure you could see the point being made..while its only a small percentage of Dublin fans causing trouble all other counties dont even have this small percentage.

stooge · 12-06-2007 03:19PM

Waylander wrote:

Alot of posters here love to hate the dubs, and that is what this is all about really.

Stop being so defensive, I dont hate dubs, I do however hate the people who throw things at football matches and do drugs in front of everyone.

Two of the lads I used to work with are avid dub supporters, always go to the hill. Theyre great craic and the type of people you would like to see in the hill, giving stick, taking stick, enjoying the match. The same two people say to me all the time they would love to see "the little scumbags f**king about get barred for life". They both agree that the majority of fans are decent enough but every time the hill is full of dubs, at least 50-100 or so mostly teenagers are there more for the chance of a scrap or throwing things than the football itself.

Now, I accept that all counties have these scumbags but, from experience, I believe that travelling counties, especially when travelling to Croker, tend to keep people in check a little more i.e. when travelling on the bus a few years ago, younger fans (including myself) starting acting up. A few of the older fans gave us a talking to to keep us in check and stated that we would be banned from receiving any of the clubs ticket allocation for further matches.

It may be a little harder to have something like this with the home Dub fans but at some point someone will have to stand up and try to get rid of some of the scum element in the hill - whether that be the Garda, DCB, GAA or fans themselves.

blackbelt · 12-06-2007 03:22PM

At last....some people with some sense who acknowledge that the minority give us the bad name.I have a big problem with people saying the Hill is for scumbags and is a kip and is well suited for them.Thats disgusting carry on.

I go to the matches and go with my next door neighbour who is a fireman.One of the most decent people you could meet.We do not cause trouble or throw bottles.Its the minority kid scumbags who do that.Knacker kids who drink cans and smoke spliffs.If the the Hill was full of scumbags,the Hill would be a smoke hazard and dumping sight.We can't help it or stop them.

Anyway,I'm getting fed up of this thread and being branded a scumbag.Stooge,I don't think for one second that you would take too kindly to being called a scumbag or being implicated as one for simply attending a football game and going to a specific terrace.The previous post was an attack on all Hill-goers which includes me.Thats personal abuse and I did not like that one bit.I'm entitled to be angry and defend myself thank you very much.

Put yourself in my shoes.I'm a real fan who doesn't condone the scumbags,I'm against them and I think most Dublin fans,Hill or not,are against them too.I don't want to use racial prejudice as a platform to support my argument but I,on behalf of a lot of Dublin supporters,feel discriminated against.

dclifford · 12-06-2007 03:24PM

I was on the Hill last weekend (on the bend near the Cusack Stand). This is what I think:

Allow (forcing) Meath fans to cross in front of the Hill: Very Wrong
Bringing Glass bottles+ Beer cans into ground: Very Wrong
Throwing any item at anybody: Very Wrong
Extremely drunk people allowed into any venue that is open to all ages: Very wrong.

I have always been on the hill and it is my preference to go there, it has a great atmosphere. But there has been several occasions in the last couple of years, as mentioned on this thread, bottles and cans thrown in all directions. This is completely unacceptable. Last week during the half time incident, A 1litre glass bottle travel from the top of the hill to the bottom, in the direction of the meath fans, land in the hill on top of supporters. It is just pure luck that nobody was killed.

I can't understand how on entry to Hill 16 we have to pass at least 6 rows of Gardai, Stewards and ticket checkers and people still get in with items that are prohibitted.

blackbelt · 12-06-2007 03:30PM

"I can't understand how on entry to Hill 16 we have to pass at least 6 rows of Gardai, Stewards and ticket checkers and people still get in with items that are prohibitted."

The most sensible comment made here thus far.

clg23 · 12-06-2007 03:31PM

It would be sad to see a Hill that is half full of Gardaí never mind other county supporters so it would be great to get rid of the scum element that have no interest in the game..

Maybe a little test before you're allowed on the hill?

How many players on a gaa team?
Will Dublin get into Europe if they win Leinster?
Who plays their home games at Parnell Park?

stooge · 12-06-2007 03:33PM

blackbelt wrote:

The previous post was an attack on all Hill-goers which includes me.Thats personal abuse and I did not like that one bit.I'm entitled to be angry and defend myself thank you very much.

Put yourself in my shoes.I'm a real fan who doesn't condone the scumbags,I'm against them and I think most Dublin fans,Hill or not,are against them too.I don't want to use racial prejudice as a platform to support my argument but I,on behalf of a lot of Dublin supporters,feel discriminated against.

Yes, the post by Smarmore was foolish and should be looked at by the mods, but why reply with personal abuse and threats? No need really, just state what you just said acknowledging that there is a minority in the hill that cause trouble and there should be something done about it.

Jibber · 12-06-2007 03:35PM

the last match was ruined by handballs and the ref blew it up 20 minutes early!

Waylander · 12-06-2007 04:01PM

stooge wrote:

Stop being so defensive, I dont hate dubs, I do however hate the people who throw things at football matches and do drugs in front of everyone.

Two of the lads I used to work with are avid dub supporters, always go to the hill. Theyre great craic and the type of people you would like to see in the hill, giving stick, taking stick, enjoying the match. The same two people say to me all the time they would love to see "the little scumbags f**king about get barred for life". They both agree that the majority of fans are decent enough but every time the hill is full of dubs, at least 50-100 or so mostly teenagers are there more for the chance of a scrap or throwing things than the football itself.

Now, I accept that all counties have these scumbags but, from experience, I believe that travelling counties, especially when travelling to Croker, tend to keep people in check a little more i.e. when travelling on the bus a few years ago, younger fans (including myself) starting acting up. A few of the older fans gave us a talking to to keep us in check and stated that we would be banned from receiving any of the clubs ticket allocation for further matches.

It may be a little harder to have something like this with the home Dub fans but at some point someone will have to stand up and try to get rid of some of the scum element in the hill - whether that be the Garda, DCB, GAA or fans themselves.

Stooge I can understand why you think I am being overly defensive, but I have been posting on this forum since its inception, and this topic of Dub bashing comes up every year several times. It get a bit tiresome. I know Dublin has plenty of scumbags in its following, and truth be told I have not been in the hill in the last 10 years or so, prfer the stands as I get older.

Your post above is actually one of the few posts that acknowledges that not all Dublin fans are scumbags. When people arent whineing about the fact we are knackers, we are then only sunshine supporters etc etc. I generally try to stay away from these threads now, but sometimes I just cant resist replying to some of the ignorance and stupidity I see written.

popebenny16 · 12-06-2007 04:23PM

Smarmore I'm glad that you're not "going to let the thread descending into a boring sunshine supporters argument." but it was you who said those tings. You said that the Hill and the Dubs supporters should be bulldozed. You also made that silly remark about attending at grounds.

Now, I know we shouldn't feed the trolls and all that so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you let your heart get ahead of your head and ask you to retract those statements.

I mean what sort of scumbags have we on the hill? I go with two other lads on a regular basis and we're joined on an ad hoc basis by two others. Jobs wise we consist of a Solicitor, an RTE reporter, and a Health Service Accounts Worker. The lads that join us are a Junior Doctor and another Solicitor. Oh, and we have another mate, from Mayo who joins with us and he's an IT engineer.

Yeah, we're real scum altogether.

Loadedscream · 12-06-2007 04:44PM

edited....rise above it gary...rise above it!!!!

Smarmore · 12-06-2007 05:00PM

popebenny16 wrote:

Smarmore I'm glad that you're not "going to let the thread descending into a boring sunshine supporters argument." but it was you who said those tings. You said that the Hill and the Dubs supporters should be bulldozed. You also made that silly remark about attending at grounds.

Now, I know we shouldn't feed the trolls and all that so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you let your heart get ahead of your head and ask you to retract those statements.

I mean what sort of scumbags have we on the hill? I go with two other lads on a regular basis and we're joined on an ad hoc basis by two others. Jobs wise we consist of a Solicitor, an RTE reporter, and a Health Service Accounts Worker. The lads that join us are a Junior Doctor and another Solicitor. Oh, and we have another mate, from Mayo who joins with us and he's an IT engineer.

Yeah, we're real scum altogether.

I don't really see why I should have to retract any statements. As I said earlier the comments about bulldozing the Dubs was a bit tongue-in-cheek. I didn't expect to be threatened with a beating from a random poster though :mad: I personally don't like the Hill or in general the people who seem to frequent it. Am I not entitled to have that opinion just because you guys don't like it? I never actually claimed all the Dubs on the Hill are scumbags and I certainly didn't accuse all Dubs of being scumbags. Btw quoting random peoples CVs doesn't make a difference. Have you ever actually looked at the job titles of most English football hooligans? Do a bit of research and you'll find a large amount of them are highly qualified people in boring office jobs looking for an adrenaline rush. They can often be the worst offenders when they get caught up in it. I know you're a moderator and may well ban me but so be it. I may have made 1 or 2 OTT comments in my original post but I still disagree with the attitude that this is a minority. It may well be a minority but it's a significant minority and they will, given time, ruin the game, and "the Hill", for everyone.

Btw for blackbelt etc. why are you taking it so personally? It was the Dublin scumbag supporters in the Hill I was referring to. If you're not one of them why get offended? And popebenny, come on? What sort of scumbags have we on the hill? That attitude is just taking the other extreme to what I said and it's equally wrong. There is a scumbag element that go to the Hill and if you're not one of them don't get offended. I'll be going to the game this Sunday and I will be staying away from the Hill. Hopefully we won't see any more scenes like last Sunday week but I wouldn't hold my breath.

blackbelt · 12-06-2007 05:29PM

First of all Smarmore,stop contradicting yourself about the minority argument.Its a small minority.If you went to the Hill you'd find out first hand.You swear all Hill-goers throw stuff simultaneously,maybe you need to change your glasses because thats when the Dublin fans point out to the pitch and sing "Come on you boys in blue".:D

Secondly,I took offense to your comments because you showed utter contempt for everybody in it or who goes there.Your words implicated that the Hill is for scumbags only.Your generalisation is what p1ssed me off.I'm p1ssed off for those who are being branded scumbags when they did nothing wrong and more importantly,did nothing to you.

Calling people animals is also very frustrating to read.Taking a collective p1ss on the Hill is showing more and more contempt.You could have just said you didn't like the Hill and talk about the select number of scumbags that cause trouble and stuff.

I feel people are not being careful with what they say.Its the second time I've taken great offence to this in a week.I know myself I am not a scumbag but there is more to it than that.Plus I never said I'd give you a beating either.There'd be a few words alright but if you called random Dubliners scumbags just because they were going to the Hill,I'd leave them to beat you.No excuse for looking for trouble but I don't think you are like this.

Just be careful in future of how you tar people with the same brush.I've taken this personally because regardless of the scumbags,Dublin have the most liveliest supporters going.I feel this generalisation of scumbagism tries to take away from the Dublin fans.

Trampas · 12-06-2007 05:47PM

clg23 wrote:

Maybe a little test before you're allowed on the hill?

How many players on a gaa team?
Will Dublin get into Europe if they win Leinster?
Who plays their home games at Parnell Park?

You are so funny (Sarcasm)

popebenny16 · 12-06-2007 05:48PM

Smarmore wrote:

I don't really see why I should have to retract any statements. As I said earlier the comments about bulldozing the Dubs was a bit tongue-in-cheek. I didn't expect to be threatened with a beating from a random poster though :mad: I personally don't like the Hill or in general the people who seem to frequent it. Am I not entitled to have that opinion just because you guys don't like it? I never actually claimed all the Dubs on the Hill are scumbags and I certainly didn't accuse all Dubs of being scumbags. Btw quoting random peoples CVs doesn't make a difference. Have you ever actually looked at the job titles of most English football hooligans? Do a bit of research and you'll find a large amount of them are highly qualified people in boring office jobs looking for an adrenaline rush. They can often be the worst offenders when they get caught up in it. I know you're a moderator and may well ban me but so be it. I may have made 1 or 2 OTT comments in my original post but I still disagree with the attitude that this is a minority. It may well be a minority but it's a significant minority and they will, given time, ruin the game, and "the Hill", for everyone.

Btw for blackbelt etc. why are you taking it so personally? It was the Dublin scumbag supporters in the Hill I was referring to. If you're not one of them why get offended? And popebenny, come on? What sort of scumbags have we on the hill? That attitude is just taking the other extreme to what I said and it's equally wrong. There is a scumbag element that go to the Hill and if you're not one of them don't get offended. I'll be going to the game this Sunday and I will be staying away from the Hill. Hopefully we won't see any more scenes like last Sunday week but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I just bolded up some of the bits there. You see, on the one hand you're making sweeping generalisations, then on the other you're saying, in effect "Not you lads, not anyone posting here - but a significant minority" Ok. The Hill takes 15,000 people. Not a minority, not a small minority, but a significant minority. So.... 6,000? That significant? What you are doing is tarring many people with the same brush.

As for quoting CV's, dont think for s second that I dont watch programmes like The Football Factories and such like, I know there are very well paid and otherwise respectable pepole in firms. However, yet again, you are simply doing the same thing again - a sweeping generalisation. What you see on Hill 16 is nothing compaired to what those firms and real hooligans get up to. What do you see on the hill? A lot of booing. Morons singing the same song for the last 20 years. Other morons singing "easy easy" after 2 mins on the clock. I've stood beside Meath, Kildare, Laois, Offaly Cork, Donegal, and Mayo supporters on the Hill. They get the "get off the hill" chant they get a bit of slagging. Sometimes they may get some idio getting a bit previous but other Dubs tell them to shut up and watch the match.

You get them everywhere, not on the hill alone.

As for banning you, I'm not a mod on this forum. But I did report you to the mods here.

trouble in hill 16

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