trouble in hill 16

jackbhoy · 12-06-2007 06:57PM

I know lots of genuine dubs fans, some who have played the game at club/inter-county level, who wouldn't set foot on the hill because of the scum element. I also know decent lads who go and stand on the hill, sing and chant and add to the atmosphere without acting like knackers, the problem is the "scum" minority are the ones who are loudest and get noticed most.

I have been to a lot of Dubs games in last few years and I have to say I have witnessed things that I've never see that any other county, the spitting, bottle throwing, vitriolic abuse that is totally unnessecary.

These lads have been around since the 70s and are mostly soccer yobs who have nothing better to do in the summer while waiting for premiership to return, every county will probably have a few of these but I think Dubs problem is worse because they all have one area to congregate, this collective mob mentality and the usual dutch courage makes it worse.

To those of you that say dubs are best fans in the country I'd ask you why Parnell park was only 2/3's full for county final, this is every counties club showcase but dublin with its 1,200,000 population had lower attendance at this final than counties with 1 tenth that.

The truth is 60/70% of Dub GAA fans only go to championship games, the more avid supporters also go to league games and (IMHO) the real fans go to these and support the club game as well.

Smarmore · 13-06-2007 09:55AM

popebenny16 wrote:

What do you see on the hill? A lot of booing. Morons singing the same song for the last 20 years. Other morons singing "easy easy" after 2 mins on the clock. I've stood beside Meath, Kildare, Laois, Offaly Cork, Donegal, and Mayo supporters on the Hill. They get the "get off the hill" chant they get a bit of slagging. Sometimes they may get some idio getting a bit previous but other Dubs tell them to shut up and watch the match.

You get them everywhere, not on the hill alone.

You seem to be conveniently forgetting the OP and a lot of other situations that have been noted here. What do you see on the hill? People throwing coins, bottles, umbrellas even!! Not just at rival fans but also at gardaí. People doing drugs, generally being drunken idiots etc. Look I'm not "anti-dub", a lot of Dublin fans here seem to get their back up very easily when anyone says anything that even remotely criticises the Dubs. Get over it. If I don't like what I see I'll say it. It's impossible to talk about something like this without generalising at some stage. I just don't like this "it's only a minority" excuse along with the rose-tinted glasses view of the Hill you seem to have. If this argument was about English hooligans for example I'm sure you'd find yourself throwing in a few generalisations they wouldn't like. When the shoes on the other foot though...

Maybe I'm too used to going to places like Pairc Tailteann and Breffni Park and I like going to Croke Park because it has a touch of class. I would prefer to see Croke Park as an all-seater stadium. It's a national showcase and a stadium we should be very proud of. However the Hill in general taints it for me and it looks ridiculous. I personally would like to see it bulldozed and replaced appropriatley. Can you imagine the new Wembley stadium with Hill 16 stuck on the end of it? It would be the laughing stock of Europe. That's just my opinion, don't start taking it as an anti-Dub thing. I've had great days out in the likes of Pairc Tailteann sitting out on the grass behind the goals, great atmosphere and all but I wouldn't like to see the All-Ireland final being played in it.

blackbelt · 13-06-2007 10:12AM

Smarmore,

Its very easy to not generalise,if you can't stop generalising at some point,close the book.

Its easy to say "some scumbags" or "some Dublin supporters" but a comment like bulldozing the Hill with all the Dubs in it is ridiculous and taking a "collective p1ss on the Hill" and branding Dubs as "animals" shows pure contempt on your behalf.I can't believe you actually wonder why we are so easily annoyed about this.Its comments like that that rile us and it is unfair.

Smarmore · 13-06-2007 10:38AM

blackbelt wrote:

Smarmore,

Its very easy to not generalise,if you can't stop generalising at some point,close the book.

Its easy to say "some scumbags" or "some Dublin supporters" but a comment like bulldozing the Hill with all the Dubs in it is ridiculous and taking a "collective p1ss on the Hill" and branding Dubs as "animals" shows pure contempt on your behalf.I can't believe you actually wonder why we are so easily annoyed about this.Its comments like that that rile us and it is unfair.

Well I think you'll find I made most of those comments after you made it personal. I'm sorry if you don't like the terminology but how can you say some of the attitude towards the hill is not animalistic. Do the Dubs not have a territorial attitude towards the Hill? I think you'll find they do and you said yourself you would like the Hill to be 80% Dubs. Give me one good reason, apart from the Dubs right to claim the hill, it should be 80% Dubs. Because of tradition since the 70s blah, blah, blah...

You can get annoyed about it all you like but that's the way I see it and a lot of other neutral observers. Btw I show contempt because I have contempt. If you were sitting in the Hogan overlooking that incident maybe you would feel the same. As an Irish fan what did you think when the English fans took over a section of Landsdowne Road and tried to "claim it"? Bet you weren't too impressed then. If I was to generalise about that and call the English fans scum would you have any objection? I know you're going to say it's a completely different thing but is it? The English fans throw seats, the Dubs throw bottles. Same mentality. But sure it's only a minority...

One Cold Hand · 13-06-2007 10:42AM

jackbhoy wrote:

I know lots of genuine dubs fans, some who have played the game at club/inter-county level, who wouldn't set foot on the hill because of the scum element. I also know decent lads who go and stand on the hill, sing and chant and add to the atmosphere without acting like knackers, the problem is the "scum" minority are the ones who are loudest and get noticed most.

Every county has it's scumbags. It's only cos there's 15,000 from the same county in the one stand that they get noticed easier. And you have a problem with them being 'loud'? So they should stand there and say nothing? Have you noticed the brilliant atmosphere are these Dubs games you've been to? This helps create it. So there a bit abusive to some players, so what, I mean if they can't take a bit of slagging...

jackbhoy wrote:

I have been to a lot of Dubs games in last few years and I have to say I have witnessed things that I've never see that any other county, the spitting, bottle throwing, vitriolic abuse that is totally unnessecary.

I never condone throwing of bottles etc. but those meath fans were asking for it.

jackbhoy wrote:

These lads have been around since the 70s and are mostly soccer yobs who have nothing better to do in the summer while waiting for premiership to return, every county will probably have a few of these but I think Dubs problem is worse because they all have one area to congregate, this collective mob mentality and the usual dutch courage makes it worse.

I agree with this. People are saying that it's 'Because they're Dubs' that the odd bottle is thrown. It would happen if you put 15,000 fans from the same county in the one stand, and then threw in 100 fans from their most bitter rivals, no matter what the counties they were.

jackbhoy wrote:

To those of you that say dubs are best fans in the country I'd ask you why Parnell park was only 2/3's full for county final, this is every counties club showcase but dublin with its 1,200,000 population had lower attendance at this final than counties with 1 tenth that.

Ah thats a load of boll*x. I'm sick and tired of people giving out about Dublin sunshine fans. For one thing it's against the rules of the forum, if you every bothered to read it:
"Fact:
Every county has their 'sunshine' fans, not just Dublin.

A week ban for arguing it."

I wonder did Donegal travel in their thousands down to play Kerry away? No, yet the match against Armagh was a sell out. (I'm not getting on the back of Donegal fans! It's just an example!) Nobody mentions sunshine fans from other counties.

Look, the fact is PP was nearly full for every home league game, and the Dubs sell out all their championship games. Every county has their sunshine fans, it's unreasonable to expect fans to show up to every single game in the whole year! It doesn't happen in other counties
As a comparison, Dubs could easily sell out 100,000 tics fora champo game. Thats 1% of the pop. The population of Meath, Kildare, Wicklow and Louth combined is over 500,000, yet for they're recent double header they couldn't even half fill croker. I don't mean to get all technical and start quoting figures but I don't understand why people give out about dubs consistently selling out croker?!

ps. I'm saying for one minute that were the 'best' fans, that arguement was had already. I'm just tired of people giving out about sunshine fans....

jackbhoy wrote:

The truth is 60/70% of Dub GAA fans only go to championship games, the more avid supporters also go to league games and (IMHO) the real fans go to these and support the club game as well.

Whatever. see above...

One Cold Hand · 13-06-2007 10:48AM

Smarmore wrote:

You can get annoyed about it all you like but that's the way I see it and a lot of other neutral observers. Btw I show contempt because I have contempt. If you were sitting in the Hogan overlooking that incident maybe you would feel the same. As an Irish fan what did you think when the English fans took over a section of Landsdowne Road and tried to "claim it"? Bet you weren't too impressed then. If I was to generalise about that and call the English fans scum would you have any objection? I know you're going to say it's a completely different thing but is it? The English fans throw seats, the Dubs throw bottles. Same mentality. But sure it's only a minority...

Don't think anyone is argueing that the people throwing bottle weren't scum. Again, brush, tarnishing etc. If you were to call ALL English fans scum, then yes, I would disagree with you. In that incident again there was a minority (Probably a larger minority!) that were looking for trouble and were intent on causing it.

Smarmore · 13-06-2007 10:58AM

One Cold Hand wrote:

I never condone throwing of bottles etc. but those meath fans were asking for it.

If you don't condone it then why do you say they deserved it? Were you in the Hill yourself when it happened? Did you stand there laughing as the bottles rained down on the Meath fans thinking "good enough for them"? Ya see the problem here buddy. There might have been other people there with that mentality that maybe had a bottle in their hand and got carried away. A couple of people that maybe had one too many and did something uncharacteristic and joined in. That's the danger of having too many young Dublin fans allowed to overtake an area of the ground like that. There's nobody there with a sensible enough head to stop it. If it was a mixture of different fans and different agegroups the situation wouldn't arise. It's the gang of scumbags outside Supermacs that pick on the drunk guy stumbling home mentality. Just because there's more in your group doesn't make you a big man yourself. Little cowards hiding in a group, it sickens me. There's always the impressionable little idiot that will join in and think he's a great fella.

One Cold Hand · 13-06-2007 11:13AM

Not they deserved it. They were asking for it. Theres a difference No one deserves that.

I agree with what your saying, basically. I've said this earlier. That yes, it should either be a mixture of fans, or else all from one county. There shouldn't have been a few hundred fans allowed in. There was only ever going to be trouble, especially with meath fans egging on the Dubs, hoping they'd get a reaction. Obviously as a Dublin fans I'd prefer to have Dubs on the hill. But if this is going to result in bottle throwing then something has to be done.
Yes I was there and no, I didn't laugh for one second once the mark was over stepped.

Smarmore · 13-06-2007 12:29PM

One Cold Hand wrote:

Not they deserved it. They were asking for it. Theres a difference No one deserves that.

I agree with what your saying, basically. I've said this earlier. That yes, it should either be a mixture of fans, or else all from one county. There shouldn't have been a few hundred fans allowed in. There was only ever going to be trouble, especially with meath fans egging on the Dubs, hoping they'd get a reaction. Obviously as a Dublin fans I'd prefer to have Dubs on the hill. But if this is going to result in bottle throwing then something has to be done.
Yes I was there and no, I didn't laugh for one second once the mark was over stepped.

Fair enough but I can see how people could easily get sucked into that kind of thing. At the end of the day it's kind of hard to see a solution to this problem. I mean how do you single out a potential bottle/coin thrower before they act? Maybe the gardaí could be a bit more vigilant at the gate but they can't realistically turn it into an airport security check. I have to say I did notice an awful lot of Dubs only coming onto the Hill as the minutes silence and national anthem was being played. I wasn't impressed by that all, they may not have known what was going on but it came across very disrespectful. Also I was dissapointed that there was barely a blue jersey to be seen on the Hill before the Dublin game. There were a lot more Meath fans who attended both games. I don't want this to be taken as a "sunshine supporter" dig but it was obvious most of them were in from the pub and had little interest in anything other than sampling the atmosphere. When you have such a large crowd of people coming in late, during the anthems etc. I would imagine that makes the gardaí and stewards jobs even more difficult. Ultimately I think the gardaí and stewards can only do so much. They patrol the area as best they can. I've worked as a steward in Landsdowne before and you just want to get the people into their seats ASAP. Checking for bottles etc. would be a nightmare. They made a big mistake bringing the Meath fans across the pitch, putting themselves in danger as well, but other than that what can they really do? Do we want to see the gardaí wade into the crowd and turn it into a complete warzone? I can't see any solution to it with the way things stand and Dublin fans will continue to get a bad name because of this "minority".

handsomebastard · 13-06-2007 12:31PM

Having been fortunate enough to work at croke park for a number of years i can tell you now its not just dublin fans who have a scumbag element in their support.Take the Armagh vs Fermanagh game a few years ago when armagh were knocked out of the championship, fermanagh supporters were randomly punched and for what you might ask? well for celebrating their teams victory, i along with two other stewards seen these incidents and what was said about it in the press, radio, news,internet forums etc? absolutley nothing.
The same year Kerry vs Cork at Croke park when Corkery was sent off and Cork got hammered, around thirty people ejected from the Hogan stand for fighting and throwing bottles on the pitch at players,again nothing said anywhere about it.But if it was Dublin well i can only imagine the press coverage that it would have gotten

TheBigLebowski · 13-06-2007 12:39PM

Smarmore wrote:

Fair enough but I can see how people could easily get sucked into that kind of thing. At the end of the day it's kind of hard to see a solution to this problem. I mean how do you single out a potential bottle/coin thrower before they act? Maybe the gardaí could be a bit more vigilant at the gate but they can't realistically turn it into an airport security check. I have to say I did notice an awful lot of Dubs only coming onto the Hill as the minutes silence and national anthem was being played. I wasn't impressed by that all, they may not have known what was going on but it came across very disrespectful. Also I was dissapointed that there was barely a blue jersey to be seen on the Hill before the Dublin game. There were a lot more Meath fans who attended both games. I don't want this to be taken as a "sunshine supporter" dig but it was obvious most of them were in from the pub and had little interest in anything other than sampling the atmosphere. When you have such a large crowd of people coming in late, during the anthems etc. I would imagine that makes the gardaí and stewards jobs even more difficult. Ultimately I think the gardaí and stewards can only do so much. They patrol the area as best they can. I've worked as a steward in Landsdowne before and you just want to get the people into their seats ASAP. Checking for bottles etc. would be a nightmare. They made a big mistake bringing the Meath fans across the pitch, putting themselves in danger as well, but other than that what can they really do? Do we want to see the gardaí wade into the crowd and turn it into a complete warzone? I can't see any solution to it with the way things stand and Dublin fans will continue to get a bad name because of this "minority".

Have you been on the hill for a Dublin match?

Smarmore · 13-06-2007 12:45PM

TheBigLebowski wrote:

Have you been on the hill for a Dublin match?

Are you joking me?? I wouldn't go anywhere near it!! I was in the Hogan for the last game in section 736 basically overlooking the Hill. I've worked as a steward before in Landsdowne so I know what it's like to deal with large volumes of people coming into a stadium. What's your point other than trying to belittle my comments because of the fact I wouldn't even consider going anywhere near "the Hill"?

TheBigLebowski · 13-06-2007 12:51PM

Smarmore wrote:

Are you joking me?? I wouldn't go anywhere near it!! I was in the Hogan for the last game in section 736 basically overlooking the Hill. I've worked as a steward before in Landsdowne so I know what it's like to deal with large volumes of people coming into a stadium. What's your point other than trying to belittle my comments because of the fact I wouldn't even consider going anywhere near "the Hill"?

My point is you haven't a clue because you've never actually been on the hill for a Dublin match and are basing you're opinions on what your mammy told you about Dublin people. Have you seen drug taking on the hill? No. Have you seen people pissing on the hill? no. Have you seen a few isolated incidents on television? Probably.

One Cold Hand · 13-06-2007 12:55PM

Smarmore wrote:

Also I was dissapointed that there was barely a blue jersey to be seen on the Hill before the Dublin game. There were a lot more Meath fans who attended both games. I don't want this to be taken as a "sunshine supporter" dig but it was obvious most of them were in from the pub and had little interest in anything other than sampling the atmosphere.

It's a bit random saying there were more Meath fans there than Dubs. As far as i'm concerned it was about 50/50.

I'm bit it is a bit of a dig at dubs 'sunshine supporters.' If you has mentioned that about 80% of Louth and Wicklow fans left after their game it wouldn't have been Dublin specific. There were large chunks of the stadium empty after the first game (the lower Cusack, near the hill end, for eg) but you conveniently forgot to mention those.

popebenny16 · 13-06-2007 01:08PM

Smarmore wrote:

You seem to be conveniently forgetting the OP and a lot of other situations that have been noted here. What do you see on the hill? People throwing coins, bottles, umbrellas even!! Not just at rival fans but also at gardaí. People doing drugs, generally being drunken idiots etc. Look I'm not "anti-dub", a lot of Dublin fans here seem to get their back up very easily when anyone says anything that even remotely criticises the Dubs. Get over it. If I don't like what I see I'll say it. It's impossible to talk about something like this without generalising at some stage. I just don't like this "it's only a minority" excuse along with the rose-tinted glasses view of the Hill you seem to have. If this argument was about English hooligans for example I'm sure you'd find yourself throwing in a few generalisations they wouldn't like. When the shoes on the other foot though...

Maybe I'm too used to going to places like Pairc Tailteann and Breffni Park and I like going to Croke Park because it has a touch of class. I would prefer to see Croke Park as an all-seater stadium. It's a national showcase and a stadium we should be very proud of. However the Hill in general taints it for me and it looks ridiculous. I personally would like to see it bulldozed and replaced appropriatley. Can you imagine the new Wembley stadium with Hill 16 stuck on the end of it? It would be the laughing stock of Europe. That's just my opinion, don't start taking it as an anti-Dub thing. I've had great days out in the likes of Pairc Tailteann sitting out on the grass behind the goals, great atmosphere and all but I wouldn't like to see the All-Ireland final being played in it.

Well, the reason why I haven't commented on the OP's point is that I don't disagree with it, the reason why I posted in this thread was because of your comments, with. Otherwise I'd be here all day posting "I agree with that" and watching my postcount spin. So, sorry, no rose coloured glasses or any of that. I'm taking exception to your bulldoze the hill (so what?) with all the dubs in it. That's what I find unacceptable about your post. The rest is your opinion although it is tainted by sweeping generalisations - example: UmbrellaS - not one but more than one. Implication of many umbrella's raining down.

As for English hooligans how could you possibly know what I would post. Would I post that all of the Manchester United or the Liverpool fans who were caught up in trouble in Europe should have been bulldozed along with the section of the stadium they were in? Could I say that and hope to remain credible?

I've seen people doing drugs and being drunken idiots in all parts of Croke Park, and, shock horror, even when the Dubs aren't playing!!

I couldn't give a fiddlers if you are anti Dub or not, i don't care. I don't like sweeping generalisations which are also exaggerations and i also don't like comments such as "I've been to more grounds than most on the hill" and you're lovely bulldoze them attitude.

If you posted "I think Halting sites and everyone on them should be bulldozed" on a thread about travelers, esp in the after hours board, you'd be outta here pronto, pal. But I wouldn't imagine you would post that sort of stupidity, would you?

Smarmore · 13-06-2007 01:33PM

TheBigLebowski wrote:

My point is you haven't a clue because you've never actually been on the hill for a Dublin match and are basing you're opinions on what your mammy told you about Dublin people. Have you seen drug taking on the hill? No. Have you seen people pissing on the hill? no. Have you seen a few isolated incidents on television? Probably.

First of all I live in Dublin, just off James Street so be glad I don't make my judgments on Dublin people from the clientele that frequent that area. My brother also lived just off Clonliffe Road under the railway line so believe me I don't need my mammy to tell me what Dublin people or Dublin fans are like. Sure it's pointless me having a point of view so if I've never been on the Hill. I suppose you never have an opinion on anything you've never had first-hand experience of. To be honest drug taking wouldn't bother me at all or people pissing on the Hill and I didn't see the incidents on the telly because I was at the game.

Btw OneColdHand a lot of the Louth and Wicklow contingent may have been getting buses back home after the first game without having a choice in the matter. The attendance for the match was 78000 anyway which explains the empty seats. Most Louth and Wicklow fans would have stayed for the second game, myself included. The atmosphere was very good in the area I was in.

One Cold Hand · 13-06-2007 01:42PM

Smarmore wrote:

Btw OneColdHand a lot of the Louth and Wicklow contingent may have been getting buses back home after the first game without having a choice in the matter. The attendance for the match was 78000 anyway which explains the empty seats.

Yeah and Dublin fans might have been getting buses to the game, but thats not good enough for you so it's not? If they wanted to stay they would have.
Jesus, the match was over around 3:30. The last bus back to Wicklow or Louth isn't 4:00!
And the bit about the attendance is rubbish. An addentance of 78,000 people means that there were 4,000 tickets not used. At all. At any stage. It doesn't mean that 4,000 people came in, watched the first game and left early.

Smarmore · 13-06-2007 02:13PM

One Cold Hand wrote:

An addentance of 78,000 people means that there were 4,000 tickets not used. At all. At any stage. It doesn't mean that 4,000 people came in, watched the first game and left early.

That was my point!! You said there were empty seats in the Cusack etc. after the first game but most of the empty seats were empty throughout the day. None of the Louth or Wicklow fans around me left early but that's got nothing to do with the violence anyway. I was just using that example to show how it would be difficult for the stewards and gardaí to deal with a large number of latecomers in a boisterous mood. They were singing their little English dittys all the way through the minutes silence and national anthem by the way. That's a fair enough point if Dublin people were getting buses to the game, it was a bad day etc. I suppose.

popebenny16 · 13-06-2007 02:31PM

Smarmore wrote:

They were singing their little English dittys all the way through the minutes silence and national anthem by the way.

More of it. What little English ditty's? Come on You Boy's in Blue? That was being sung, during the silence, by those supporters underneath the hill who were coming in from the Street. I knew that because I was using my ears. All round the hill there was silence.

During the National Anthem? Boy, you must have great hearing. As everyone in the ground sings the anthem, maybe even yourself, you must have special powers of hearing because such singing has never - ever - been commented on, even by the most rabid anti-Dubs on this board. Why? Because it dosnt happen.

And, finally, I'm sure that you are now going to post on the soccer board your disgust at hearing such "little English dittys" being sung at Landsdowne Road where you steward.

And, presumably you were most annoyed by the Meath supporters singing the exact same song - what with your super powered hearing you surely heard it. They were in the upper cusack, Spiderman.

Anyway, that last post of yours just shows to me that your a wind up merchant. I wont be replying to you again.

One Cold Hand · 13-06-2007 02:41PM

Smarmore wrote:

That was my point!! You said there were empty seats in the Cusack etc. after the first game but most of the empty seats were empty throughout the day. None of the Louth or Wicklow fans around me left early but that's got nothing to do with the violence anyway. I was just using that example to show how it would be difficult for the stewards and gardaí to deal with a large number of latecomers in a boisterous mood. They were singing their little English dittys all the way through the minutes silence and national anthem by the way. That's a fair enough point if Dublin people were getting buses to the game, it was a bad day etc. I suppose.

No if you read my earlier post I specifically mentioned an example of on large group of Louth fans that left directly after their game. It wasn't just the odd random seat that I noticed. I noticed it because it was such a large group, a couple of hundred, and they were all wearing bright red.

English dittys? Yes I was one of 12,000 dubs fans bursting out 'SWING LOW SWEET CHARRRIOOOTTTT!' Cop on will you.
Yes some fans came in late singing. They had no way of knowing that there was a minutes silence being observed. I'm sure if they did know they would have respected it as well as everyone else did.

Waylander · 13-06-2007 03:26PM

Smarmore wrote:

That was my point!! You said there were empty seats in the Cusack etc. after the first game but most of the empty seats were empty throughout the day. None of the Louth or Wicklow fans around me left early but that's got nothing to do with the violence anyway. I was just using that example to show how it would be difficult for the stewards and gardaí to deal with a large number of latecomers in a boisterous mood. They were singing their little English dittys all the way through the minutes silence and national anthem by the way. That's a fair enough point if Dublin people were getting buses to the game, it was a bad day etc. I suppose.

You keep bringing up points in one post, and later on when someone picks you up on it you say ah well thats not relevant, or thats not what I meant, or some other form of get out. Say what you mean and stop back tracking all the time.

K-9 · 13-06-2007 03:27PM

One Cold Hand wrote:

Ah thats a load of boll*x. I'm sick and tired of people giving out about Dublin sunshine fans. For one thing it's against the rules of the forum, if you every bothered to read it:
"Fact:
Every county has their 'sunshine' fans, not just Dublin.

A week ban for arguing it."

I wonder did Donegal travel in their thousands down to play Kerry away? No, yet the match against Armagh was a sell out. (I'm not getting on the back of Donegal fans! It's just an example!) Nobody mentions sunshine fans from other counties.

Look, the fact is PP was nearly full for every home league game, and the Dubs sell out all their championship games. Every county has their sunshine fans, it's unreasonable to expect fans to show up to every single game in the whole year! It doesn't happen in other counties
As a comparison, Dubs could easily sell out 100,000 tics fora champo game. Thats 1% of the pop. The population of Meath, Kildare, Wicklow and Louth combined is over 500,000, yet for they're recent double header they couldn't even half fill croker. I don't mean to get all technical and start quoting figures but I don't understand why people give out about dubs consistently selling out croker?!

ps. I'm saying for one minute that were the 'best' fans, that arguement was had already. I'm just tired of people giving out about sunshine fans....

Of course the Dubs are well supported for championship games as are other counties. They do sell out CP for championship games.

But which county is the best supported ? Really is there an answer to this.

I think the Tribune did an article last year on this based on the last 5 years support. Tyrone, Armagh and Donegal where all in the Top 5/6. And you have to consider the travelling involved for these supporters, extra cost and of course smaller populations. I'm not saying the Dubs aren't the best supported but there are other considerations for other counties. But again, is there really an answer to this.

blackbelt · 13-06-2007 03:33PM

I think Wexford have always had a strong showing along with Mayo and Galway.

K-9 · 13-06-2007 03:41PM

blackbelt wrote:

I think Wexford have always had a strong showing along with Mayo and Galway.

Yeah, I think Mayo and Galway where in the top 5/6 as well and obviously Meath and Kildare where in the top 10. Geography and population size have to be taken into count if we are talking about best supporters.

Blackjack · 13-06-2007 04:43PM

Smarmore wrote:

You've got some serious issues blackjack but I'll leave you to worry about them.

You can leave me out of this.

Nalced_irl · 13-06-2007 05:35PM

Smarmore wrote:

God you're an awful angry bunch. Can nobody have a different opinion of "the Hill" than you guys without getting accused of being childish, a moron etc. etc.? You seem to think I care about the Hill or have some inferiority complex about Dublin. I don't. Dublin are a superior team to Louth and I live in Dublin. I've been going to Croke Park for years as well as loads of other stadia in the country. I may be wrong but I can pretty much guarantee I've been to more stadiums in this country than any Dub that was on Hill 16 last week. I just think it's pathetic the way some Dubs get so worked up about "the Hill".

Couldn't be bothered taking any more part in this thread because every time anyone posts an alternative view to the Dubs point of view they get shot down by clowns like blackjack and Nalced. Btw I was being a little tongue-in-cheek with some of those comments about the Dubs, e.g. point our fingers at the riff-raff, because I can see you guys are very easy to rise. Relax lads!! Anyway, throwing aside the attempts at personal insults and returning to the topic, you shouldn't be defending the Hill or the Dubs actions on it the last day. Pointing the finger back at the Meath supporters is very "childish". The Dublin fans threw bottles and were completely out of order. It's indefensible so stop trying to defend it. Just makes you look like one of them!! As an aside, good choice in targeting Meath fans. Any other set of supporters and the rest of the country would have been up in arms!!

Your allowed to have whatever opinion about the Hill you like, but your posts are still childish. Yea, your the one getting personal insults. What was it you were calling the Hill fans? Scumbags and Animals? Anytime anyone posts a proper point that doesnt resort to childish name calling and trying to rise us as you put it they get a genuine response which may agree or disagree with them. When you make a stupid post like you did, well you get what you got. Also, when did anyone try and defend the guys throwing the bottles? Were not defending them in the slightest but were not defending the Meath guys either who were obviously causing trouble also.

Nalced_irl · 13-06-2007 05:44PM

Smarmore wrote:

Sure it's pointless me having a point of view so if I've never been on the Hill. I suppose you never have an opinion on anything you've never had first-hand experience of. To be honest drug taking wouldn't bother me at all or people pissing on the Hill and I didn't see the incidents on the telly because I was at the game.

Well, your opinion that the "Excuse" that its a minority comes from what? Having never been on the Hill, how do you know how many people are involved. I am always on the Hill for all Dublin games and keep to the Cusack Stand end of it as i know the MINORITY go to the end towards the Nally and thats where the trouble always is. In the area im always at, i have never seen any serious trouble. Like with these Meath supporters i have said that all i saw was what they did as they were leaving. I didnt see what happened in the terrace itself so have not really commented on it. Thats how an opinion goes without first hand experience.

jackbhoy · 13-06-2007 07:04PM

One Cold Hand wrote:

And you have a problem with them being 'loud'? So they should stand there and say nothing? Have you noticed the brilliant atmosphere are these Dubs games you've been to? This helps create it. So there a bit abusive to some players, so what, I mean if they can't take a bit of slagging...

By loud i mean the scumbags with abusive chants and bottle throwing get noticed more than normal punter who just sings molly malone/boys in blue or whatever, I obviously didn't mean fans being loud was a problem ffs. Re "slagging" , why should amateur players have to put up with a bunch of fookwits who probably never played the game throwing vicious abuse at them? You can create an atmosphere without that kind of sh!te

One Cold Hand wrote:

I never condone throwing of bottles etc. but those meath fans were asking for it.

The meath fans are only latest example, it happens at every game in some shape or form, but like all Hill defenders you "don't condone it" so thats ok.

One Cold Hand wrote:

Ah thats a load of boll*x. I'm sick and tired of people giving out about Dublin sunshine fans. For one thing it's against the rules of the forum, if you every bothered to read it:
"Fact:
Every county has their 'sunshine' fans, not just Dublin.

A week ban for arguing it."

I wonder did Donegal travel in their thousands down to play Kerry away? No, yet the match against Armagh was a sell out. (I'm not getting on the back of Donegal fans! It's just an example!) Nobody mentions sunshine fans from other counties.

Look, the fact is PP was nearly full for every home league game, and the Dubs sell out all their championship games. Every county has their sunshine fans, it's unreasonable to expect fans to show up to every single game in the whole year! It doesn't happen in other counties.

Well ban or not its only fair that I can respond to you.

I don't think using Donegals trip to kerry is a good example for a start, do you know how long it takes to drive from somewhere like Buncrana to bottom of Donegal let alone bottom of the bloody country. Do you think you'd sell 100k tickets if a 6 hour+ drive was involved.

One Cold Hand wrote:

As a comparison, Dubs could easily sell out 100,000 tics fora champo game. Thats 1% of the pop. The population of Meath, Kildare, Wicklow and Louth combined is over 500,000, yet for they're recent double header they couldn't even half fill croker. I don't mean to get all technical and start quoting figures but I don't understand why people give out about dubs consistently selling out croker?!

100,000 is 1% of the population of where

, its about 9% of population of Dublin if thats what you meant.

This may be the case for big c'ship games (i.e. don't think the 1st game sold out, did it?) but 9% of population for home game isn't extraordainary by any means.

If you want to "get technical":
One example that springs to mind is Longford v Kerry last summer, Longford has approx. 6,000 supporters in Killarney, thats about 18% of the county, and it was away, about 5-6 hour drive for some.
Using this, do you reckon 216,000 dubs would travel to kerry for a match??? Especially knowing they had little or no chance of winning???????

I'm not for a minute saying all dubs are sunshine supporters (i know enough genuine GAA people in club scene here to know its not the case ) or that other counties don't have bandwagon element. I'm just responding to your inaccurate statements.

One Cold Hand · 14-06-2007 10:26AM

jackbhoy wrote:

100,000 is 1% of the population of where , its about 9% of population of Dublin if thats what you meant.

This may be the case for big c'ship games (i.e. don't think the 1st game sold out, did it?) but 9% of population for home game isn't extraordainary by any means.

If you want to "get technical":
One example that springs to mind is Longford v Kerry last summer, Longford has approx. 6,000 supporters in Killarney, thats about 18% of the county, and it was away, about 5-6 hour drive for some.
Using this, do you reckon 216,000 dubs would travel to kerry for a match??? Especially knowing they had little or no chance of winning???????

I'm not for a minute saying all dubs are sunshine supporters (i know enough genuine GAA people in club scene here to know its not the case ) or that other counties don't have bandwagon element. I'm just responding to your inaccurate statements.

My bad! I really shouldn't use figures when trying to prove something! They're not my strong point!
Anyway the point I was trying to make (although I made it pretty badly!) was that Dublin fans are contantly knocked for not travelling to long distance away league games and then selling out croker. My point is other counties do it too. Of course 6,000 longford fans travelled down to Kerry, it was the biggest match they played in years. It's the same with Dublin games, the champo is the big one. I wonder how many longford fans travelled to their away league games the spring before that game?
If there was an 80,000 seater stadium in Kerry, I believe Dublin fans would sell it out for a game against Kerry.

The sunshine supporters arguement could around for ever so I'm not going to comment on it any further.

And btw!! Little or no chance of winning?? Might be a tough match but we'd them (/ye? are you a kerryman?) as good a run as anyone else!!!

blackbelt · 14-06-2007 11:09AM

Little or no chance of winning?....thats an interesting comment,you are like Colm O Rourke in your analysis,a bit lob sided and exaggerated.If Dublin had been in the final last year with Kerry,it would have been a more exciting,tightly contested match...fact!! One thing about Dublin is that when we are behind and we know we will most likely lose,we'll still fight with conviction.

O Rourke had the cheek to say a v impressive half strength Kerry team beat an unimpressive half strength Kerry team in Parnell Park.Anyway,I will try not to go off topic.

This argument about the Hill is going forward and back with us Dubs stating we don't condone the scumbag actions whilst the opposition are taking digs at us and coming up with ridiculous comments like closing the Hill for Dublin matches and the one that takes the cake,"bulldozing the Hill with all Dubs in it".Is it any wonder why we get offended so easily?

I'd urge my fellow countymen and women to let the opposition have their opinion,afterall,it doesn't really change anything.The Hill is dominated by Dublin fans and has been the last 30 years.The fact that we are lucky to have this tradition of congregating Dublin fans is something the other 31 counties could never achieve to the degree in which the Dublin supporters do.

It seems that whilst there is a scumbag minority/element in the Hill,there is equally a jealousy element amongst anti-Dublin,anti-Hill followers.If the opposition have a problem with the Hill and use it as a get-out clause for advantage to Dublin,I have to say look at your own team first before you blame the supporters.

I think what Mayo did last year was very clever.We use the Hill to get behind our team,the Dub players use it as extra motivation to win and play better so its up to opposition to use our following in the Hill as a motivation to beat us and use it to their advantage if any.

And yes,there are sunshine/scumbags in the Hill but as already discussed,every county has this.Its the media and the the 31 against 1 mentality that makes us look worse.

I'm also of the opinion that the scumbags come from certain areas of Dublin such as the 5 Lamps,Summerhill and possibly North Strand and Ballybough.Apologies to any Dubs who are not scumbags from this area.The only time I've had stuff thrown at me in public was a banger in 5 Lamps/North Strand and they were stupid knacker teenagers with nothing better to do than cause trouble and run when confronted by myself.These type of people are sneaks and are only big until confronted or caught.

This thread could easily be in the regions category.

trouble in hill 16

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