trouble in hill 16

Jibber · 07-06-2007 01:45PM

Lemlin wrote:

The fact that I'm from Cavan has nothing to do with this, but thanks for that anyway.

And how is it bull**** that Croke Park is for everyone? Who exactly is it for then?

I didn't say the Dubs claim to own Croker, they just seem to think they own one terrace in it.

Even their management does if Pillar and his management team's reaction to Mayo last year is anything to go by.

bullsh1t in that everyone keeps mentioning it, stating the obvious again and again.

blackbelt · 07-06-2007 02:24PM

Speaking of Pillar,his presence at the sideline is a factor going into the replay.We may see a more organised Dublin side next time.

Kinetic^ · 07-06-2007 02:29PM

Why on earth would you go onto Hill 16 if you were playing against Dublin? You know you're going to get abused!!!!:rolleyes:

clg23 · 07-06-2007 03:01PM

aran5 wrote:

this is the aggressive response i thought i'd get from some dubs

Just like the Meath Fans on the hill you are trying to provoke a reaction...

kevmy · 07-06-2007 03:27PM

blackbelt wrote:

Speaking of Pillar,his presence at the sideline is a factor going into the replay.We may see a more organised Dublin side next time.

lol Sorry blackbelt but, hah. Pillar is a good manager, possibly a very good manager but he's no tactician. It's his idea to have these interchanging forwards which end up losing their positions and head near the end of games. It was Caffery who has been consistently slow to put on subs when things go wrong.

The problem with Dublin last week was the same problem I've seen with them ever since the Semi-Final against Armagh in 2002. That game damaged them mentally, I think most of the present team were on that panel or close enough to get infected by the problem. Until thats sorted, the Dubs will never win an All-Ireland.
It's the exact same case with Mayo except Mayoitis only seems to kick in on All-Ireland final day. But the seeds were sown in the 2 Meath finals in 1996 and it hasn't left us yet. As we have found it's one of the hardest things to fix.

kaimera · 07-06-2007 03:39PM

Jibber, personal abuse cop the **** on.

One and only warning from me.

Jibber · 07-06-2007 03:45PM

towards who?

One Cold Hand · 07-06-2007 03:54PM

It's true that this is a problem for us. However I think that last Sunday was a step in the right direction. Blew it against Mayo last year, Tyrone this year in the league and countless other games. However on Sunday while we did blow a lead we didn't actually lose the match. its a step in the right direction.
And no disrespect to Meath but they're no Mayo or Tyrone, but it's a start....small steps as they say.

kaimera · 07-06-2007 05:54PM

towards who?

whingin cavan b*astard...

The fact you can't see it really doesn't help you.

Daysha · 07-06-2007 06:49PM

Someone should highlight this issue to Martin Breheny in the Indo. We read him complain about anything and everything so the least he should do is mention something as important and worrying as this growing trend in the terraces.

I'm not just talking about Dublin or Meath supporters on the Hill. At the NHL final in the town end I had the biggest load of ****head Waterford "supporters" in front of me. If you ever replay the match look out for a sports bottle hitting the back of the Kilkenny net before a 21' free, curtosy of them. And it was just a league match!
I've never been on the hill so I cant speak for either set of supporters but it is something that needs to be addressed. Hopefully segregation isnt be the answer but I fear it will be in the future.

Nalced_irl · 07-06-2007 07:15PM

Hehe, i thought we Dubs were getting off light on this one. Wondering why no thread had been made for it. It was only one group of Meath fans that were removed. There were plenty of other groups of Meath fans that didnt get any hassle and remained so im quite sure that group were causing hassle themselves. The fact that they walked by the front of the Hill giving the fingers to the stand would also suggest this. Anyway, im not gonna make any excuses for the bottle throwers. Simple fact is they should be banned from all GAA grounds but until there is some kind of security measure for this small bunch that do it, they will keep getting in and doing it again.

Nalced_irl · 07-06-2007 07:24PM

clg23 wrote:

Segregation would be terrible for the game but i would advise supporters of other teams to avoid the hill when dublin are playing as there is a minority of people who would prefer to throw stuff at other teams supporters than watch the game

I was going to say this but i dont want it to come across that i think Hill 16 is a Dublin only area. Quite the opposite. I do like it being mostly Dubs but it adds a bit of fun having some rival fans in there also.Anyway, Its simply that at the moment there are a small number of troublemakers in the Hill that cause all this and until they are kept away, it isnt really safe for opposition fans. You do have to note also that some areas of the Hill are worse than others. The group that were removed were over near the old corner of the Hill where alot of the trouble always started back before it was redeveloped and still today. I usually go to the area just left of the goals when looking onto the pitch and have very rarely seen any trouble there, certainly nothing too serious but again id suggest that this group probably knew well which area they were going to. Im not trying to make it out that it was completely their fault or anything of the sort but if you start giving Dublin fans sh*t in that area, you will get trouble back in abundance.

Nalced_irl · 07-06-2007 07:37PM

Only slowly reading through this now so sorry for all the posts

Just read your first post there Lemlin and if thats true, then they were harshly treated but your hearing all this from your friend who was one of them. Your naturally not going to hear a neutral opinion there. The fact is that if it was only when Meath started coming back, why didnt all the other groups of Meath fans get pelted with missiles in the 2nd half? Surely if the bottlers (and i dont mean the 15 dubs on the pitch) saw a reason to throw missiles when Dublin were 3 points up they would have more reason when Meath pulled it even. I have no doubt that the Meath fans were causing hassle and one person here already said they saw them doing it, however i still dont agree with the stuff being hurled at them obviously. And also i dont think Dublin decided they own the Hill, however you cant deny it is pretty much a Dublin terrace going by attendance. Not in ownership but the fact that when tickets do go on sale to other counties, its still 98% Dublin supporters there. Some minority of fans may think that means no other counties are welcome there but on the whole Dubs know well its not our terrace.

PS. The stewards and gardai were absolutely stupid to bring them accross the Hill. Sometimes you wonder if they get any training for this at all!

PPS. Jibber, this forum can get out of hand easily enough without throwing insults around like that. Give the admins a break and only post constructive comments.

Nalced_irl · 07-06-2007 07:44PM

deise59 wrote:

Someone should highlight this issue to Martin Breheny in the Indo. We read him complain about anything and everything so the least he should do is mention something as important and worrying as this growing trend in the terraces.

I'm not just talking about Dublin or Meath supporters on the Hill. At the NHL final in the town end I had the biggest load of ****head Waterford "supporters" in front of me. If you ever replay the match look out for a sports bottle hitting the back of the Kilkenny net before a 21' free, curtosy of them. And it was just a league match!
I've never been on the hill so I cant speak for either set of supporters but it is something that needs to be addressed. Hopefully segregation isnt be the answer but I fear it will be in the future.

I dont think segregation is needed, i simply think once you do something like hurl a missile at a fan you should be banned from being a member of any GAA club, banned from purchasing tickets and also banned from all grounds around the country. I saw Manchester City were trying out a new system whereby all tickets are scanned when entering a stadium. If the ticket is not in your name, or the name of a person with you, you cannot enter. I know it would slow things up on entering the ground but if they had a database of all banned fans and when scanned, the ticket is in that persons name, they are turned away. Of course this means they can get their friends to buy their ticket but eventually all their friends would be also banned if they kept their messing up.

Lemlin · 07-06-2007 09:01PM

The Rooster wrote:

There were a number of Meath fans near where I was in the Hill. They werent thrown out by the Gardai. But then again, they werent pissed idiots, intent on causing trouble.

Had they abuse roared at them and bottles thrown?

If you call celebrating your team scoring points, provoking the opposite supporters, then the whole of the Hill must of been provoking the Meath supporters on it. Its only natural to support your team scoring a point.

Its interesting that the same lads were on the Hill two years ago and didn't get the same reaction when Dublin were in the lead throughout the entire game.

Incidentally, did the Meath supporters beside you just stand there and say nothing? Chances are they did because they knew if they showed any sign of support for their team they'd get abuse.

Atomic Pineapple · 07-06-2007 10:42PM

the hill 16 situation is a joke, the summer dub supporters, as in the ones that only realise dublin are playing when its in the championship do believe that the hill is a dublin only area, after talking to several dub supporters after the game it became quite clear. Its fair enough to say dublin can sell out the hill but thats not the point, the hill could easily be split 60 - 40 or 70 - 30, giving other teams supporters a safe enough crowd of there own people to support there team with, meath were given 3000 tickets for the hill but most meath people know they'd be surrounded by dubs so would be afraid to buy a hill ticket and the tickets would have been handed back to the gaa.

the hill is evenly open when two other teams are playing in croke park, at the meath louth game last year there was a great friendly rivalry between the suppoters and there was even numbers of both, this would never happen with the dubs playing there.

on another note it is very unfair to other teams playing against dublin in croker, having such a concentrated amount of dub supporters makes the split support of other counties look scattered and could easily give the dublin team a lift if you get what i'm saying, not quite sure if its coming across right.

as for the trouble element on the hill, i dont know the situation about how the meath fans came to be thrown out but i seen the amount of stuff that was thrown at them and it certainly was not a minority involved in that! granted it may have been provoked it doesnt show much maturity on behalf of the dublin fans even if it was provoked by a few drunk meath supporters.

The Rooster wrote:

There are at the edge of a gene pool where they get exactly what is coming to them.

I suppose you have the scientic evidence to prove that?

K-9 · 08-06-2007 12:24AM

Nalced_irl wrote:

I was going to say this but i dont want it to come across that i think Hill 16 is a Dublin only area. Quite the opposite. I do like it being mostly Dubs but it adds a bit of fun having some rival fans in there also.Anyway, Its simply that at the moment there are a small number of troublemakers in the Hill that cause all this and until they are kept away, it isnt really safe for opposition fans. You do have to note also that some areas of the Hill are worse than others. The group that were removed were over near the old corner of the Hill where alot of the trouble always started back before it was redeveloped and still today. I usually go to the area just left of the goals when looking onto the pitch and have very rarely seen any trouble there, certainly nothing too serious but again id suggest that this group probably knew well which area they were going to.

But you do know that there is an area of the Hill that should be avoided. You don't know for definite if the Meath supporters knew that. A lot of other supporters from other counties would go into this area innocently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clg23
Segregation would be terrible for the game but i would advise supporters of other teams to avoid the hill when dublin are playing as there is a minority of people who would prefer to throw stuff at other teams supporters than watch the game

Nalced_irl wrote:

I was going to say this but i dont want it to come across that i think Hill 16 is a Dublin only area. Quite the opposite. I do like it being mostly Dubs but it adds a bit of fun having some rival fans in there also.Anyway, Its simply that at the moment there are a small number of troublemakers in the Hill that cause all this and until they are kept away, it isnt really safe for opposition fans. You do have to note also that some areas of the Hill are worse than others.

That does sound like segregation in every way except officially sanctioned.

By the sounds of it the solution here is the GAA is target CCTV at these areas and also true Dub supporters that are regulars at games to report the troublemakers to the clubs and authorities. I know its not ideal but its more inportant than a bad name for the Dub supporters, other counties and the GAA.

Trampas · 08-06-2007 08:15AM

draffodx wrote:

as for the trouble element on the hill, i dont know the situation about how the meath fans came to be thrown out but i seen the amount of stuff that was thrown at them and it certainly was not a minority involved in that!

So how many people are on the hill?? and how many bottles where thrown?

So over 50% of them thrown bottles.

If Meath got 3,000. Louth and Wicklow would have got a couple of thousand between them so wont be long before half the hill is taken up with the other counties.

Atomic Pineapple · 08-06-2007 11:13AM

Trampas wrote:

So how many people are on the hill?? and how many bottles where thrown?

So over 50% of them thrown bottles.

If Meath got 3,000. Louth and Wicklow would have got a couple of thousand between them so wont be long before half the hill is taken up with the other counties.

not saying over 50% threw bottles just saying that there was alot of scumbags on the hill if all that threw the bottles were scumbags.

Louth and Wicklow probably got an even smaller allocation than Meath for the hill and would have given them back too because the hill is not a safe zone for any other county supporters when dublin are there, theres just a fear factor surrounding it.

markk06 · 08-06-2007 12:46PM

draffodx wrote:

on another note it is very unfair to other teams playing against dublin in croker, having such a concentrated amount of dub supporters makes the split support of other counties look scattered and could easily give the dublin team a lift if you get what i'm saying,

So you are saying it is very unfair that Dublin has a bigger support (due to bigger population) and that i should be evenly split?? Or are you suggesting segregation which in my opinion would be a complete disaster!

Nalced_irl · 08-06-2007 02:41PM

Seanies32 wrote:

But you do know that there is an area of the Hill that should be avoided. You don't know for definite if the Meath supporters knew that. A lot of other supporters from other counties would go into this area innocently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clg23
Segregation would be terrible for the game but i would advise supporters of other teams to avoid the hill when dublin are playing as there is a minority of people who would prefer to throw stuff at other teams supporters than watch the game

That does sound like segregation in every way except officially sanctioned.

By the sounds of it the solution here is the GAA is target CCTV at these areas and also true Dub supporters that are regulars at games to report the troublemakers to the clubs and authorities. I know its not ideal but its more inportant than a bad name for the Dub supporters, other counties and the GAA.

True they may not have known but something tells me they did. "Scumbags Corner" as it was christened is not exactly a well kept secret. Obviously i can only say what i think, not what i know as i didnt see much happen, but i did see their actions as they were led away which speaks for itself.
The problem is that reporting these people to authorities makes no difference. If i go down to a garda or steward and tell them a bloke is throwing things and even point him out, do you think the garda/steward would go through the crowd and remove him, probably risking his own head? He wouldnt and not that i blame him. CCTV and bannings is the only way to get rid of them and until thats done i think the hill has to be segragated for peoples safety, otherwise as you pointed out, it should be at least 70:30 so that its not just small groups. IMO at the moment, the only people apart from Dubs who take up Hill tickets are people who want to go to the game and can only get Hill tickets and people who want to go to the Hill to "Get One Up On The Dubs" in their mind which means very few are there. The first of those would have little or no trouble, possibly a few silly remarks sent their way but nothing violent but the second group will usually be as vocal and in the Dubs face as they can and will try and attract trouble, which is what i think these guys did on Sunday. Again, this is just what i think, not what i know but i wouldnt be so quick to believe a friend that was one of those fans.

andrew1977 · 08-06-2007 03:00PM

Did i see a help find madeline mccann behind the goals on the hill 16 last sundaY ?

I was sitting in the cusack down towards the canal end and wasnt too sure if seen it correctly.

Trampas · 08-06-2007 03:57PM

andrew1977 wrote:

Did i see a help find madeline mccann behind the goals on the hill 16 last sundaY ?

I was sitting in the cusack down towards the canal end and wasnt too sure if seen it correctly.

You did.

They tried to put it on the back of the net that stops the balls going into the hill but steward wouldn't let them.

Not sure where it ended up in the end

Atomic Pineapple · 08-06-2007 06:40PM

markk06 wrote:

So you are saying it is very unfair that Dublin has a bigger support (due to bigger population) and that i should be evenly split?? Or are you suggesting segregation which in my opinion would be a complete disaster!

it doesnt have to be evenly split, i know dublin have a bigger population than other counties and there for a bigger support but giving them 99% of the hill just because the dubs traditionally believe they own it is a disgrace.

it cant be easy for teams playing in croker against dublin and having abuse hurled at them from a packed hill full of dubs.

gerire · 08-06-2007 07:13PM

Lemlin wrote:

Croke Park, and all its stands or terraces, are for the people of Ireland. This ignorance that the Dubs own the Hill is what Conor Mortimer was referring to last year when he talked about how the Mayo footballers wanted to put the Dubs in their place.

Mayo broke croke park protocol last year having been instructed what end they were to warm up at; that is all Im going to say on the matter because we posted at great length about it last year.

Every season the "Dubs owning the Hill" issue rises it's head and the rest of the country will say we have a right to go there too, and of course you do but make sure you are thick skinned, the banter may become personal but 99% of the time will end having a laugh at the end of the game. It also suits most teams playing against Dublin to not take the Hill tickets as they can use it as a "we have more money than you and can afford a stand ticket", something said to me on Sunday

The craic on the Hill was fantastic the other day, it was the first time in a good few years I've been on it, the gardaí should have brought them out by the Hogan stand and this would never have happened;

What did annoy me was still the other muppets on the Hill continuing to throw missiles across the hill at other Dublin fans, like WTF, Also how hard is to have a camera on the hill, someone monitoring it and if anyone is seen throwing junk to tell a guard in an ear piece which guy it is and to kick them out. No arguments, no discussion just get out and stay out

Atomic Pineapple · 08-06-2007 09:07PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hES9I31QGM&mode=related&search=

throwing stuff at meath fans is one thing but thrown a bottle at a garda? definately should be some sort of camera system watching people and stewards with the power to kick someone out in touch with the video contoller, thats a disgrace

Nalced_irl · 08-06-2007 10:35PM

draffodx wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hES9I31QGM&mode=related&search=

throwing stuff at meath fans is one thing but thrown a bottle at a garda? definately should be some sort of camera system watching people and stewards with the power to kick someone out in touch with the video contoller, thats a disgrace

Jesus, whoever shot that video must be the best person to ever set foot on this planet.

Thats my video btw, incase you didnt guess

from the Leinster Final last year. See the amount of abuse i get from idiots on it for simply shooting it? You dont even get to see the stuff i delete before it goes public!!

K-9 · 09-06-2007 12:30AM

Says it all really.

Maybe we need segregation, from them!

Blackjack · 09-06-2007 11:10AM

gerire wrote:

Mayo broke croke park protocol last year having been instructed what end they were to warm up at;

well thats bull**** for a start. The protocol was that whoever came out first could choose. See who broke Protocol now?.

Nalced_irl · 09-06-2007 04:20PM

Oh yea, on a lighter note, anyone who thinks the Dubs in the Hill give undue abuse to other fans, i invite you to put on a Dubs jersey and go to the Dome Nightclub (I think its called that anyway) in Bundoran. You`ll get more than a few bottles thrown your way there i tell ya!! I remember wearing my Dublin jumper on New Years on the way down and was warned many times not to go near any of the pubs in it unless i dont like my bone structure as it is now

trouble in hill 16

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