The uselessness of the gardai

source · 28-03-2007 12:13PM

The only time you won't be trialled by your peers is when you have already admitted guilt. The whole point of a jury is to decide whether the suspect is guilty or not based on the evidence given by the gardai and the testimonies given in court.

source · 28-03-2007 12:17PM

Bambi wrote:

sweet zombie jesus, you're complaining that they have to establish a case against someone to prove their guilty? thats what we pay them to do.

I'm not complaining about it, i was pointing out to \m/_(>_<)_\m/ who said

and this is what we are talking about here, they don't detect and arrest, therefor people continue on with this behaviour, guards do nothing, they continue to commit crime, guard do nothing, see the pattern

why it is so hard to arrest people who make places high risk for the gardai to enter, ie because the gardai have to prove who it was that was throwing stones, rocks washing machines, or whatever at them, before they can go and arrest them.

Dyr · 28-03-2007 12:55PM

foinse wrote:

The only time you won't be trialled by your peers is when you have already admitted guilt. The whole point of a jury is to decide whether the suspect is guilty or not based on the evidence given by the gardai and the testimonies given in court.

You'll never be trialled by your peers, you might be tried by them however. Anywhoo i take it you've never heard of the Special Criminal Court?

event · 28-03-2007 12:58PM

Bambi wrote:

really, and is that theory backed up by anything other than assumption? I'm from ballymun and i can't say i ever saw a garda car, fire brigade or ambulance being stoned. Saw a maria nearly hit with a tin of emulsion but that was it. The reason that they dont show up because the higher ranks in the gardai have different standards of what is an acceptable level of anti social behaviour in an area. Ballymun gardai station is only an outpost of santry with a small number of gardai for a large population. Some of 'em are decent types struggling against the odds and some of 'em are complete **** in my experience.

well i have a mate who is stationed in ballymun and a while ago they responded to a call of a robbery. The female garda with him was hit in the face with a brick that came through her side window

oh, and there was no robbery either

BTW, i dont mean all of ballymun like, just certain parts of it

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 28-03-2007 01:07PM

Bambi wrote:

sweet zombie jesus, you're complaining that they have to establish a case against someone to prove their guilty? thats what we pay them to do.

isn't that type of attitude unbilevable...

these are the people who say the guards a doing a fine job...

yes they are doing a great job... that's if you don't expect them to "have proof that this is in fact the person who committed the crime." because that's not in their job descriptions...

Sweet zombie jesus is right, i have never read such idiotic posts,
and yes I'm attacking the post not the poster

Dyr · 28-03-2007 01:08PM

I wasnt saying it doesnt happen but ive never seen it, hell i've had bottles put through my living room window. Also once saw a female (shh ban)garda completely lose it with some scummer and start a screaming match off, offering him and his mate their go. Apparently she was incensed that he'd claimed she was responsible for something her colleagues had done to him. Very unprofessional behaviour and when her male colleague came to extract her, he looked mortified at her hysterics. He kind of stood off to one side looking away going "c'mon brigid* c'mon, leave it"

*not actual name

source · 28-03-2007 01:12PM

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

isn't that type of attitude unbilevable...

these are the people who say the guards a doing a fine job...

yes they are doing a great job... that's if you don't expect them to "have proof that this is in fact the person who committed the crime." because that's not in their job descriptions...

Sweet zombie jesus is right, i have never read such idiotic posts,
and yes I'm attacking the post not the poster

Well maybe you should read all my posts before putting one of them down

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 28-03-2007 01:13PM

foinse wrote:

because the gardai have to prove who it was that was throwing stones, rocks washing machines, or whatever at them, before they can go and arrest them.

no... do they, oh my god.... do the guards know this. :rolleyes:

i bet they don't, because if they did they would want more money.;)

source · 28-03-2007 01:15PM

Right i'm not posting in this thread anymore, i've given nothing but reasonable arguments for my points, and all i've gotten in return is abuse and sarcasm, which is the lowest form of wit, stop taking my posts out of context and have a nice day.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 28-03-2007 01:20PM

thank god for that... now to have a reasonable discussion about this issue.

but that is only my own personal opinion

event · 28-03-2007 01:40PM

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

thank god for that... now to have a reasonable discussion about this issue.

but that is only my own personal opinion

hopefully we can

cos by your previous posts, you've done a great job of proper debating so far

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

same ould few, defending the guards no matter what, the majority of the public say...:rolleyes:

laughable really,
do the same ould few really think that the majority of the population are all wrong... if so, they are as out of touch are the rest of the guards who think they are doing a "fine job":rolleyes:

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

prevent petty crime..... any chance they could look at preventing serious crime so. because they are doing nether.

but i suppose that all media hype as well is it.

the spiraling crime figures are all due to the bad media coverage the poor ould guards get...

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

that is incorrect, the area you live in determines how fast they arrive..

house burgled in Howth they might arrive in 15 min...flat in Ballymun... they may not arrive at all. FACT

Puttin comething in capitals doesnt make it fact

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

on the hostile environment thing....
that is the result OF bad policing, not and excuse FOR bad policing.

and yes they do have to put up with crap, from drunk young fella acting the maggot after the pub....
while the much more serious murders, rapes, and drug dealing take place else where undetected and unsolved...

so ya big shout out for the brave gardai,

you have nailed it, thank you.

so people are only hostile as a reult of the gardai? Is that it?
a hostile environment is the result of the big bad gardai?

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

no... do they, oh my god.... do the guards know this. :rolleyes:

i bet they don't, because if they did they would want more money.;)

oh look, more smart answers

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

WHAT, are you for real... of course it is

hers is a novel idea, why not catch these people...
well after all, if one comments a crime, isn't it the policies job to detect and arrest, ( leave the court's out of this for the moment).

and this is what we are talking about here, they don't detect and arrest, therefor people continue on with this behaviour, guards do nothing, they continue to commit crime, guard do nothing, see the pattern

do ya think Rudy Giuliani took that approach in New York...
ah sure it a no go area so we will leave it.
Ya, that's how he almost halved the street crime in these "hostile environment"

Get real, other cities who have faced up to the problem of bad policing have cleaned up the streets, why cant we...

ill tell ya why......Because first we have to admit we have a problem, not stick our heads in the ground and say everything is fine....like we are doing in this country.

pathetic really

actually you cant leave the courts out of it

the guards do their job, they follow the evidence and arrest and charge a rapist. They have done their part. What happens, a judge lets him go free. FREE!!! What more do you want the gardai to do?

the gardai catch a little scumbag from limerick. What happens? The judge lets him go on a suspened sentence, or 6 months in jail, and he gives the fingers to the gardai on the way out.

Intead of constantly moaning on here, why dont you tell us what should be done?
how can we solve the crime issue in ireland?
An something realistic, not crap like

" well is the guards did their job it'd be a start"

they do do their job, very well. they are not aided by judges and the attitudes of people on the ground.
Giuliani got New york sorted as of the 3 strikes rule. Nothing like that here, some people can have 40 convictions and be free. That is not a fault of the gardai, but the criminal system and bleed heart lawyers that campaign for their clients 'rights'

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 28-03-2007 03:37PM

Commander Vimes wrote:

the garda go for easy targets who are doing very little/nothing wrong instead of real criminals

i think this post sums up the major problem with the force today,
so no matter how much money one burys into the force, it will do no good with these work practices of easy arrests just to get the numbers up,

kwalsh000 · 28-03-2007 11:30PM

Only go for small time or easy targets is it? Yes i am quite sure they want to deal with drunks and little junkies and road traffic law for the next 30 years. An effort is made, if there is a call they go to it if they can (if they cant because they are already at a call and its not too serious or urgent then another car can go). Also if you want a selfish reason why Gardai would not go for small time stuff? Think about it...small time for 30 years..nothing happens...you got for the big time..get arrests, convictions etc, then you get recognised, promotion etc. So you really think they would sit on their arse for it all eh

Certain few here seem to be just out to put them down. If you are so concerned about how the force is then join is my answer. The Garda do their job, if the criminals go free its the courts fault, if there are not enough Gardai then its the government. Dont be blaming the people out there risking themselves and putting up with abuse on a regular basis.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/...
''ill tell ya why......Because first we have to admit we have a problem, not stick our heads in the ground and say everything is fine....like we are doing in this country.

pathetic really''

Oh really? What might you be doing to make the problem go away and it a better country...other than posting on an internet forum.

Dont judge anyone in the emergency services until you have done their job.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 29-03-2007 07:39AM

kwalsh000 wrote:

Dont judge anyone in the emergency services until you have done their job.

oh OK so, i guess that it then... one can not express concerns on our police force unless one is a member of the force.
gardai policing the gardai :rolleyes:

that is one of the main reasons why the force is in such a bad state at the moment.

same ould few....
lets not improve the force, lets just defend and cover up the problems.:rolleyes:

_Kaiser_ · 29-03-2007 08:36AM

Have to agree with the above poster.

What we have in this country is a largely amateurish and unprofessional "keystone cops" brigade, that has been proven on many occasions in recent times to be corrupt and incompetent.. it seems like they can't go a week without being embroiled in some new scandal or other.

I've posted extensively here on my experiences with a certain Northside Dublin station over the years, and anyone who thinks the Gardai are doing a great job is deluding themselves.

We all have examples of Gardai abusing their authority, bullying people, or with ego problems to the point that the general consensus now, as we complain impotently to our mates in the pub (another typically Irish thing),is that it "depends who you get on the day".

To be fair though this isn't just a problem with the Gardai.. it extends through all of our state bodies and government really - look at the corruption in the government for example. I've no doubt that in 15/20 years we'll have the "Bertie Tribunals" just as we had the Haughey tribunal before him. And do you know what? I'd wager that it'll cost us a fortune as well and nothing will actually be done in the end. Are we as a nation really so corrupt, and just out for what we can get, that this cycle is doomed to continue? Can the Irish people really govern themselves effectively? (slightly off topic there I know and no doubt won't be popular, but I for one am sick of the constant scandals, brown envelopes, planning permission corruption, cost overruns and delays on vital infrastructure projects etc etc - regardless of who's in power at the time! Just watch the Dail reports on RTE - a classroom of playschool kids would be more mature sometimes!)

Anyway..for balance, no I'm not saying ALL members of the force fit the above descriptions, but there's enough of them that are, at all ranks, so as to badly damage the credibility of the organisation. The biggest issue is the dramatically varying "quality" of individual Gardai and even more importantly, the lack of effective, independent oversight to weed out the bad apples so to speak.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 29-03-2007 10:11AM

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Anyway..for balance, no I'm not saying ALL members of the force fit the above descriptions,

good point and well made
i totally agree... but they all know whats going on and they all know who the bad apples are... and are all guilty by silence and non action within the force...
the "wall of silence" prevails in the entire force, and all are guilty.

Dragan · 29-03-2007 10:20AM

I have to say this thread has made me chuckle. A lot.

Does anyone wonder for two seconds what the country would be like with NO gardai? I have had the joy of doing several jobs where i was dealing with some of the rougher elements of our society and i can happily say that in each and every one of them i was happy to have the support of the local gardai.

I think the attitude of anyone who would say "they only go for soft small time targets and ignore the big criminals" is missing the point.

The big timers are not dealt with by the cops on the street. The big timers are brought down through investigation and hard work. And yeah, sometimes the cops need to let small things slide so that big things happen and bad men get put away.

It's a **** part of the job, deciding that letting some scumbag deal to kids for another month has to happen because you need some more for the case against HIS boss, and if you can just take him down then 30 guys like the guys YOU see have nothing to sell.

All the guys in uniforms do is try and make sure no one plows down a member of your family while driving home hammered, or rapes your wife/sister/girlfriend as she strolls home from work. Useless? I don't think so. Sure, some of them could be a lot better but if you can't recognise the good they do then your quite frankly an idiot.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 29-03-2007 10:39AM

Dragan wrote:

Sure, some of them could be a lot better but if you can't recognise the good they do then your quite frankly an idiot.

i would disagree, i would say if one cant see the force is in need of a good shake up and a bit of a revamp, then your an fool and an idiot

:rolleyes:

Dragan · 29-03-2007 11:01AM

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

i would disagree

Now there's a ****ing surprise.

Dyr · 29-03-2007 11:03AM

Dragan wrote:

I have to say this thread has made me chuckle. A lot.

Does anyone wonder for two seconds what the country would be like with NO gardai?

I have to say you're ability to completely miss the point made me chuckle. A lot. Has anyone actually suggested abolishing the gardai as a force? No. And anyone who can infer that from this thread is, quite frankly, an idiot.

Kinetic^ · 29-03-2007 11:04AM

Have to agree with Dragan on the points he made.

On the flip side, I think they take the easy bait in relation to where they use their speed hair dryers.......they should really target roads where there is a danger when you speed (yes speeding is dangerous but imo some spots are worse than others). It gets their numbers up for the statistics but it's really preventing nothing.

humanji · 29-03-2007 11:10AM

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

oh OK so, i guess that it then... one can not express concerns on our police force unless one is a member of the force.
gardai policing the gardai :rolleyes:

that is one of the main reasons why the force is in such a bad state at the moment.

same ould few....
lets not improve the force, lets just defend and cover up the problems.:rolleyes:

I like the way you cleverly ignored his question.

Dragan · 29-03-2007 11:11AM

Bambi wrote:

I have to say you're ability to completely miss the point made me chuckle. A lot. Has anyone actually suggested abolishing the gardai as a force? No. And anyone who can infer that from this thread is, quite frankly, an idiot.

Out of interest Bambi, where did i say that people had been talking about abolishing the gardai?

Nowhere.

My simply point was that it's always a good idea when sitting there having a moan about something to imagine what life would be like WITHOUT that particular aspect.

Jesus Christ guys this isn't difficult. Could the gardai be a better force? Yes, of course they could. Could they be much worse? Yes, of course they good.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 29-03-2007 11:22AM

Dragan wrote:

Could the gardai be a better force? Yes, of course they could. Could they be much worse? Yes, of course they good.

fantastic point, and very well made. :rolleyes:
we should get used to these type of " on the fence answers" with and election coming up:rolleyes:

Dragan · 29-03-2007 11:33AM

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

fantastic point, and very well made. :rolleyes:
we should get used to these type of " on the fence answers" with and election coming up:rolleyes:

On the fence or realistic?? Realising that something has both good and bad aspects is hardly being "on the fence". It's just accepting the way things are.

And were you not agreeing with a smiliar point made by Kaiser2000 a few posts back?

JayRoc · 29-03-2007 11:38AM

I've yet to notice someone here bring up an issue with the gardaí that doesn't apply to police forces around the world.

Good or bad, peelers are peelers and as far as I can see they're the same wherever you are. Ireland doesn't have a monopoly on dodgy cops any more than it has a monopoly on bent politicians.

potty pete · 29-03-2007 11:42AM

bookiebasher wrote:

ah lads the guards are great...I was stopped going to work and ended up in court for not wearing a seatbelt...I owe my life to this great guard.

only little worry is that when people are out late at night causing harm there are no such roadblocks but sure the good guards have to have a good nights sleep to catch us speeding and such going to work to fill the coffers..bless the boys in blue

Well aren't you the silly billy.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 29-03-2007 12:14PM

Dragan wrote:

On the fence or realistic?? Realising that something has both good and bad aspects is hardly being "on the fence". It's just accepting the way things are.

do ya know something, you are completely right and completely wrong.
so i agree and disagree with you fully on some points and i half agree and disagree with you on other points.

event · 29-03-2007 01:04PM

Kaiser2000 wrote:

What we have in this country is a largely amateurish and unprofessional "keystone cops" brigade, that has been proven on many occasions in recent times to be corrupt and incompetent.. it seems like they can't go a week without being embroiled in some new scandal or other.

can you give us links on that?

oh and \m/_(>_<)_\m/, yet to see your opinions on what can be done to improve it?

instead, this is what we see from your posts

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 29-03-2007 01:44PM

event wrote:

can you give us links on that?

RTE or most newspapers would carry those news stories every week.

The uselessness of the gardai

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