The uselessness of the gardai

Rudolph Claus

Anyone else starting to think the guards are completely useless regards dealing with crime. Anyone else of the opinion that they are just lazy and try to avoid having to deal with a lot of whats regarded as petty crime or minor crimes, as the guards and polititions like to call it.

Some examples:
In my local town (Drogheda), there was a carnival for St.Patricks day, set up literally in the carpark surrounding the guarda station. The station literally overlooks the carpark and you could fly a paper aeroplane from the carpark to the carnival and vice versa. Anyway, my little cousin was at this with her friends and had to call her parents to be brought home early cause they were scared of all the trouble going on.
There was a gang of chavs going around attacking kids at random. There appears to have been a load of such incidents in the carnivals grounds according to my cousin. The more serious incidents made the local paper which were as follows:
Also not in the carnival but near the McDonalds(again can be seen from the garda station so ye see how close it is) a 14yr old lad was kicked unconscious and was finally rescued. There was a gang of 40youths hanging arund and 18 of them or so surrounded the lad and attacked him.

When the lads dad went to the garda station to report this a seperate incident was taking place outside the garda station where a group of chavs were attacking another young lad. This lad ran into the garda station to escape and 1 scumbag followed him i nand kept up the attack in the garda stations lobby itself.

The gardas should have been patrolling the Carnival and not have been waiting to be called. Surely they have the brains/commom sense to predict theres gonna be some trouble at this on St. Paddys day and actually get off their asses and do something.

Patrolling in a car is useless in these events, they should be walking around in pairs or whatever or at least cycling. Lazy, useless shower of numpty`s.

Moving on from the Drogheda issues to all other areas, has anyone noticed the sheer surge in carcrime. I dont know if any of ye are members of car sites/forums in this country but the amount of cars being stolen and robbed of is getting very very serious. When the guards are called they just dont want to know. Even in a few cases where knives were produced the guards did not seem to prioritise or treat these incidents any more seriously. Some of ye also might be aware of the skangers that are on a "Honda civic" robbing spree in Cork and had bebo bragging sites set-up with their car burning pictures, vids, etc. I posted these links up a few weeks ago i think. A few of my friends at college have had their cars broken into, and 2 cars actually stolen in the last 2 months alone and i know personally of a few incidents involving folk i know of. My point is we seem to be hearing and seeing more and more of this type of crime lately and nothing is being done.

There are scumbags allowed to knock up over a 100 convictions in this country and still remain free to tally up some more? The punishment is an absolute joke.

I reckon the main problem here is the non existance of proper garda patrolling and acting as deterrants. Also, their complete lack of interest when they are called for these crimes doesnt exactly help.

Anyone got any views on this?

dr.bollocko

Dont even get me started on all the stories I have of how ****ed stupid our guards are. They're a buncha cute whores when it comes to making the odd crime stick alright, but as a police force designed to inspire confidence and protect the public they are about completely god****ing useless.

Dyr

The gardai don't decide sentences though, otherwise you are generally correct . Although, these days they seem to be pretty proactive at fitting people up if they cross them.

Hagar

I think the Gardaí are dis-illusioned. They brought a rapist to trial, secured a conviction and the Judge gave out a three year suspended sentence. Why should they bother their arse? They get no support from the judiciary and there is nowhere to put criminals when they are convicted. Why risk getting you head busted for an unsupportive public? Would you?

Nobody else gives a damn, or so it seems, why should they?


/Edited for Typos

Dyr

Incidentally mickey macd is currently undermining whatever's left of our right to silence to make the garda'is job easier. Yay for law and order.

445279.ie

"Quote There are scumbags allowed to knock up over a 100 convictions in this country and still remain free to tally up some more? The punishment is an absolute joke. Quote"


You can hardly blame the Gardai for that. More to do with the lack of prison spaces etc

bookiebasher

ah lads the guards are great...I was stopped going to work and ended up in court for not wearing a seatbelt...I owe my life to this great guard.

only little worry is that when people are out late at night causing harm there are no such roadblocks but sure the good guards have to have a good nights sleep to catch us speeding and such going to work to fill the coffers..bless the boys in blue

biro15

we need a force to police the police

445279.ie

bookiebasher wrote:

ah lads the guards are great...I was stopped going to work and ended up in court for not wearing a seatbelt...I owe my life to this great guard.

only little worry is that when people are out late at night causing harm there are no such roadblocks but sure the good guards have to have a good nights sleep to catch us speeding and such going to work to fill the coffers..bless the boys in blue

Ah get a life and join the Gardai if you're that concerned!!!

Dave!

Hagar wrote:

I think the Gardaí are dis-illusioned. They brought a rapist to trial, secured a conviction and the Judge gave out a three year suspended sentence. Why should they bother their arse? They get no support from the judiciary and there is nowhere to put criminals when they are convicted. Why risk getting you head busted for an unsupportive public? Would you?

Nobody else gives a damn, or so it seems, why should they?


/Edited for Typos

That's what I'm thinking too... There's no point in arresting these clowns, cos they'll be let off with a tap on the wrist if even that. I'm sure many Gardai would be more inclined to give the blokes a few smacks with a baton rather than go to the bother of filling out the paper work, etc., only to have them out on bail the next day and then have them receive a suspended sentence. Pointless really.

Wishbone Ash

Nuttzy - would it not be more appropriate to direct your contempt towards the offenders rather than towards the Gardaí?

Would you blame the litter problem on litter wardens or on the people who do the littering?

445279.ie

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Nuttzy - would it not be more appropriate to direct your contempt towards the offenders rather than towards the Gardaí?

Would you blame the litter problem on litter wardens or on the people who do the littering?

Excellent point. A voice of reason.

kwalsh000

Agree with wishbone...but if your that concerned then join the reserves and be out walking the beat. Remember the amount of garda compared to the population aswell. It can be a tough job

neGev

Like others have said, the Gardaí are hamstrung by the ridiculous sentences handed down by the judges in this country, most of whom seem to be utterly out of touch with reality.

brianthebard

bookiebasher wrote:

ah lads the guards are great...I was stopped going to work and ended up in court for not wearing a seatbelt...I owe my life to this great guard.

only little worry is that when people are out late at night causing harm there are no such roadblocks but sure the good guards have to have a good nights sleep to catch us speeding and such going to work to fill the coffers..bless the boys in blue

If you were speeding then its your own fault you were brought to court wasn't it?

Guy:Incognito

Nuttzy wrote:

There are scumbags allowed to knock up over a 100 convictions in this country and still remain free to tally up some more? The punishment is an absolute joke.

If individuals are notching up 100 + convictions this proves the gardai are doing their jobs pretty well. It's the judges that are letting them go again,


BTW nutzzy you need to get a 2nd hobby, the garda bashing is getting old.

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Nuttzy - would it not be more appropriate to direct your contempt towards the offenders rather than towards the Gardaí?

Would you blame the litter problem on litter wardens or on the people who do the littering?

Logic has no place in this thread, begone.

Unpossible

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Nuttzy - would it not be more appropriate to direct your contempt towards the offenders rather than towards the Gardaí?

Would you blame the litter problem on litter wardens or on the people who do the littering?

Stekelly wrote:

If individuals are notching up 100 + convictions this proves the gardai are doing their jobs pretty well. It's the judges that are letting them go again,

I can't believe you people, this is the "useless garda" thread. the "judges are crap" thread and the "scumbags must die" threads are a few pages back in after hours

InFront

Not that I've ever had much to do with them, but I've never found them to be anything but helpful and courteous. But yes, some of them probably are quite disillusioned. Of course not all of them are going to be exemplary servants of the state in every deed and action, but I really hate guard-bashing for the sake of it.

ah lads the guards are great...I was stopped going to work and ended up in court for not wearing a seatbelt...I owe my life to this great guard.

Well yes, perhaps you do.

WindSock

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Nuttzy - would it not be more appropriate to direct your contempt towards the offenders rather than towards the Gardaí?

Would you blame the litter problem on litter wardens or on the people who do the littering?

We pay the Gardai to do their job and keep us safe. We have no choice but to do that, so we expect to see something being done.

If there was a pile of rubbish where the litter warden is supposed to be working, then yes I would also blame the litter warden for not doing his/her job.

Thrill

boreds wrote:

If there was a pile of rubbish where the litter warden is supposed to be working, then yes I would also blame the litter warden for not doing his/her job.

A litter warden cannot stop someone from dropping litter, only fine them if they do. If you see a pile of rubbish where a warden is supposed to be, that doesn't mean he did not fine those that dropped it, it just means that those responsible for cleaning the streets haven't done so yet.

The guardi are in a similar position in a way. They do catch criminals. There are court cases going on almost every day, all over the country. It's just that when these criminals are convicted the sentences are either suspended or the time dished out is relatively small compared to the crime. Either way the criminal is back on the street in no time committing more crime and the guardi end up getting the blame.

Agamemnon

Stekelly wrote:

If individuals are notching up 100 + convictions this proves the gardai are doing their jobs pretty well. It's the judges that are letting them go again

QFT. It must be incredibly frustrating for the Gardaí to put in all the effort of tracking down criminals, gathering evidence and making arrests only to have some clueless, ivory tower-dwelling judge ruin it all by letting the criminal go with a slap on the wrist and a pat on the head.

Sam Vimes

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Nuttzy - would it not be more appropriate to direct your contempt towards the offenders rather than towards the Gardaí?

Would you blame the litter problem on litter wardens or on the people who do the littering?

well if the litter warden drove past 20 industrial fly tippers to send me away for dropping a pacekt of crisps, i probably would blame the warden


reminds me of a busker i heard on the radio last week. he regularly plays on henry street and sees bootleg dvds etc being sold around the corner, drug deals, street crime etc etc but the garda constantly threaten to arrest him if he doesn't stop entertaining tourists and move on

jesus_thats_gre

boreds wrote:

We pay the Gardai to do their job and keep us safe. We have no choice but to do that, so we expect to see something being done.

If there was a pile of rubbish where the litter warden is supposed to be working, then yes I would also blame the litter

Do you feel unsafe? Have you been the victim of any crime, nevermind serious crime?

I know quite a few Gardai and to say they are dis-ullusioned is an understatment but they are still manage to muster some passion for their job even though they are constantly being criticised from all angles.

It seems that if you ask them where the real problem is, they will point in the direction of the courts and judges.

jesus_thats_gre

Commander Vimes wrote:

reminds me of a busker i heard on the radio last week. he regularly plays on henry street and sees bootleg dvds etc being sold around the corner, drug deals, street crime etc etc but the garda constantly threaten to arrest him if he doesn't stop entertaining tourists and move on

Where are you going with this

markk06

Op mentioned that there were these "gangs" of youths attacking people at this carnival and around the town. But do you not realise that if the Gardai turn up they are obviously going to stop harrassing people and act like normal people while the Gardai are present. Once the Gardai are gone or the thugs move on they will start again. The Gardai are not omnipresent, if they were to be there for every crime we would be in the perfect world. But the fact of the matter is that the Gardai turning up doesnt stop these nackers from committing these crimes, it just means they will wait for a few minutes until the Garda are gone.

limklad

Hagar wrote:

I think the Gardaí are dis-illusioned. They brought a rapist to trial, secured a conviction and the Judge gave out a three year suspended sentence. Why should they bother their arse? They get no support from the judiciary and there is nowhere to put criminals when they are convicted. Why risk getting you head busted for an unsupportive public? Would you?

Nobody else gives a damn, or so it seems, why should they?


/Edited for Typos

I agree. If you are a Guard and you put forward files to the DPP for various offences and then things like beating etc been dropped by them or by the court or give easy or no punishment. You too will get dis-illusioned. There are many guards out there who are dis-illusioned because of the system and do not know how to move forward.
Well lobby the TD's for better laws and money for better enforcement and a better court system.
Did you hear the the TD's are looking for their JOBS back, and you can make a difference, after all they want your VOTE. Reminded them that their JOBS will be up for renewal in five years or less. It will not take long for that to come around.

WindSock

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Do you feel unsafe? Have you been the victim of any crime, nevermind serious crime?

I have been a victim of crimes, like most people. I don't expect the Gardai to all be Robocops, but if ruffians are causing trouble right under their noses and are getting the blind eye like in the OPs text, then it will stir disillusionment from the public.
Once the criminals have been shopped to the courts, then It's out of the Gardais hands, I would understand their frustrations if the crims keep walking back out, but it is still up to the Gardai to make sure we are not getting harrased by them. Thats the job they signed up for.

michaelanthony

I used to think the guards were a useless shower of c unts but then my car was stolen twice and the guards returned it to me on both occasions and got me compensation too.

source

The gardaí are doing a very good job with limited resources, they have very limited powers over kids under 16 whether they are knackers or not, basically all they can do, is bring them home to their parents, who 9 times out of 10 have given up on the child ever becoming a productive member of society.

Is it possible that the station may have had more serious calls to attend to than a group of kids causing trouble at a fair??? should the fair not have had private security if they thought there would be a problem? did anyone actually call the gardaí or were ye relying on them looking out of their window? because believe it or not they're very busy people and generally don't have time to be looking out of windows. Also they don't keep a force of gardaí in the station just in case something happens outside, normally in most stations there will be just one or two gardaí in the station while the rest are out on patrol.Garda or not I wouldn't be running out to confront a group of angry scumbags kicking the ****e out of someone if i was on my own.

They have to think of their own safety too and don't start up with the whole they signed up for it crap, because none of them signed up to jump stupidly into fights where they will get the ****e kicked out of them, at least not without back up.

Yes it is crap when crimes go unpunished or unnoticed, but stop laying the blame on the gardaí, they can't be everywhere at once and with much more serious crime on the streets and with limited numbers they can't be expected to have a token presence at every town fair, even if it is on their doorstep. Could you imagine the outcry if they did have 2 gardai at that fair and someone was stabbed or shot, the headlines would read "MAN STABBED AS GARDAí ATTEND FAIR", get a grip and try to think of the bigger picture.

crazy_dude6662

i would just like ot point out some of the problems with this argument.

the gaurds can do f*ck all really, anytime they use any force they are sued/the news papers say how awful it is (eg. that woman who was walking around town, during a riot, with beer. she resisted arrest and brought the arresting female officer to court)

part of the problem is the fact they have to be diplomatic nearly all the time. they cant shoot people. any time they do there is uproar. how do you expect them to do the job properly if they arnt allowed use any force for detereents.

and the punishments and prisons here are a joke. they get out after a few weeks. like hte rapist with a suspended sentance.

a couple of months ago there was a 15yr old who raped a woman, he didnt get that long of a sentence (dont remeber what it was) but if thats what he is like what will he be like at 20, or 30?

they should have the 3 strike law they have in america. but for "minor" crimes they should have it that 2 or 3 count as 1 strike.

Brian Capture

Commander Vimes wrote:

reminds me of a busker i heard on the radio last week. he regularly plays on henry street and sees bootleg dvds etc being sold around the corner, drug deals, street crime etc etc but the garda constantly threaten to arrest him if he doesn't stop entertaining tourists and move on

Reason - he's an easy target and won't fight back.

Unlike the drug dealers and pirate DVD sellers.

Gardai will always go for the easy target.

That's why they had no problem kicking the crap out of middle class protestors in May Day 2002 but when it comes to taking on working class / skangers dealing drugs / joyriding they are nowhere to be seen.

bmaxi

Brian Capture wrote:

Reason - he's an easy target and won't fight back.

Unlike the drug dealers and pirate DVD sellers.

Gardai will always go for the easy target.

That's why they had no problem kicking the crap out of middle class protestors in May Day 2002 but when it comes to taking on working class /

I didn't know being working class was a criminal offence.

Brian Capture

bmaxi wrote:

I didn't know being working class was a criminal offence.

*yawn*

That's not what I meant.

My point is that the Gardai are far more likely to give so-called respectable middle class people a hard time than the bleedin' story bud working class.

Look at it this way.

A well dressed man in an expensive suit gets on the bus and lights a cigarette.
and
A Celtic-jersey wearing, moustached, tracksuited, sovereign ring on each finger youth with a strong Dublin accent and threatening manner gets on the bus and lights a cigarette.

Who is more likely to be asked to put out the cigarette by the other passengers?

bmaxi

Brian Capture wrote:

*yawn*

That's not what I meant.

My point is that the Gardai are far more likely to give so-called respectable middle class people a hard time than the bleedin' story bud working class.

Look at it this way.

A well dressed man in an expensive suit gets on the bus and lights a cigarette.
and
A Celtic-jersey wearing, moustached, tracksuited, sovereign ring on each finger youth with a strong Dublin accent and threatening manner gets on the bus and lights a cigarette.

Who is more likely to be asked to put out the cigarette by the other passengers?

Is this supposed to be descriptive of the working class?

Brian Capture

bmaxi wrote:

Is this supposed to be descriptive of the working class?

no.
it's a complete caricature - for the purpose of my example.
but people like this do exist.

The vast majority of the 'working class' / 'less privileged people' are sound.
A minority aren't. And to plead poverty as an excuse is an insult to all the others .

bmaxi

Brian Capture wrote:

no.
it's a complete caricature - for the purpose of my example.
but people like this do exist.

The vast majority of the 'working class' / 'less privileged people' are sound.
A minority aren't. And to plead poverty as an excuse is an insult to all the others .

Yes and wearing a Blackrock College scarf is no excuse for vomiting over people on the 46a last Saturday.

Kernel

Brian Capture wrote:

Reason - he's an easy target and won't fight back.

Unlike the drug dealers and pirate DVD sellers.

Gardai will always go for the easy target.

That's why they had no problem kicking the crap out of middle class protestors in May Day 2002 but when it comes to taking on working class / skangers dealing drugs / joyriding they are nowhere to be seen.

You're talking pure unsubstantiated nonsense there Brian. Your post should start with ****IN MY OPINION ****, and even then your opinion would be wrong.

For a start, a person playing a musical instrument on the street is a lot more conspicuous than a junkie/dealer passing a wrap of diamorphine (bearing in mind that the big blue uniform is something that such people are always watching for, sometimes using spotters a street away). A Garda will always want decent arrests, not petty stuff, as this pleases the bosses, looks good on file and helps with promotion.

The class argument you make completely falls on it's arse when you look at the number of convicted criminals from working class backgrounds. If your argument was correct, the prisons would be full of middle class people.

As for mayday, a group of anarchists who do not believe in a lawful and ordered society caused a breach of the peace and started smashing up a car. The Gardaí restored order, before a full blown riot erupted which could have caused massive amounts of criminal damage and injuries.

Little annoys me more than someone posting ill-founded conjecture as fact.

:rolleyes:

markk06

Brian Capture wrote:

A well dressed man in an expensive suit gets on the bus and lights a cigarette.
and
A Celtic-jersey wearing, moustached, tracksuited, sovereign ring on each finger youth with a strong Dublin accent and threatening manner gets on the bus and lights a cigarette.

Who is more likely to be asked to put out the cigarette by the other passengers?

Well clearly someone will be more likely to ask the person in the suit. Mainly because as you pointed out, the other guy is threatening. Which brings me to your next excellent point which you dont even know you made. Most members of the public wont go up to these "threatening people" whereas the gardai face these people day in and day out in their jobs, risking their safety for the safety of you and I. SO fair play to them for doing a good job.

As for saying that they only hassle "middle class" is bollox. You break the law you deserve to be punished whether you are from D4, D24, Donegal or Dubai... it has nothing to do with class. If, as someone pointed out, your statement were true, mountjoy would have an excellent entertainment group, full of jugglers and musicians who are doing "hard time" for busking, as opposed to the hardened criminals, junkies and over all dangerous individuals who inhabit it. Get real

el diablo

well, I've absolutely no faith in our police force either. most of them are gibbering idiots. :mad:

bmaxi

The Gardai have a tough job to do but it would be made easier if they got back among the people. When I was growing up everybody knew the local Garda. They didn't always like him but they trusted and respected him. He knew his patch and who the local ne'erdowells were. Nowadays you rarely see Gardai on foot patrol they flash by in cars or on motorbikes and the only physical contact most people have is at a checkpoint. Contrary to popular belief, it is the duty of the Government to protect us, the Gardai are only an instrument of this. No doubt Adolf Mc Dowell will be promising 50,000 new Gardai by Easter and a prison on every offshore island. Give the Gardai the resources they need and stop pandering to the bleeding heart, politically correct, spineless liberals and we'll all be the better for it.

ethernet

Gardaí have such a bad image in this country -- middle-aged, tea-drinking, 40" slack-wearing chaps, all speaking in the same accent.

Well, I must say my viewpoint was changed early in the year. Had an incident one night near new year's eve and, fair play to them, the gardaí had the perpetrators caught in less than 24 hours. They were very efficient and friendly.

el diablo

ethernet wrote:

Gardaí have such a bad image in this country -- middle-aged, tea-drinking, 40" slack-wearing chaps, all speaking in the same accent.

Well, I must say my viewpoint was changed early in the year. Had an incident one night near new year's eve and, fair play to them, the gardaí had the perpetrators caught in less than 24 hours. They were very efficient and friendly.

that's good to hear but it's certainly not typical....

source

el diablo wrote:

that's good to hear but it's certainly not typical....

Actually el diablo it is quite typical, because most criminals are no brain scum who leave a trail of evidence in their wake, where the problems arise is when well organised criminal gangs start organsing crimes with military planning, but even then the gardaí will 8 times out of 10 catch their man, true it may be a few years down the line, but it does happen and its happening every day.

The force does have a very negative image among the general public of this country, they realise this and are working hard to change it, take the 2 detectives who had the argument about whose round it was while guarding the american embassy.......both thrown off the force and one was arrested for dui that very night.

Face it they're a good, modern and effective police force who have a bad rep, which could have been justified in the past but today has no founding.

jesus_thats_gre

Even with regard to drug dealers operating in plain view. Under cover Gardai could be buying of them in order to build evidence for a case. In fact, they could be building cases against half the dealers in the city and then eventually let the cat out of the bag by swooping on them all at the same time.. Lets face it, we don't have a clue what is really going on or what we are talking about.

el diablo

foinse wrote:

Face it they're a good, modern and effective police force who have a bad rep, which could have been justified in the past but today has no founding.

LMAOPIMPROFLMAOWTIME

source

el diablo wrote:

LMAOPIMPROFLMAOWTIME

You know what's great? when people actually say what they mean instead of using acronyms all the time!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

InFront

Has anybody else been seeing the police on the beat a lot more lately? Driving around, walking around etc. I never (well, rarely) used to see them, but they do seem to have become more visible in my area anyway, just wondering is this a new policy? It's great to see anyway, I know a lot of people who have remarked on it.

TheNog

OP I used to work in Drogheda till earlier this month and I can tell you it is a busy town. It was usually busy from about 7-8am till 4-5 the next morning. It is a big town with nearly 30,000 ppl living there and the guards don't just patrol the town,there is also the surrounding townlands too. Lastly on a normal day including weekends there are only 8 gardai per unit patrolling the district.I'm sure that there were more than 8 on st. patricks day.

rogue-entity

bmaxi wrote:

...bleeding heart, politically correct, spineless liberals and we'll all be the better for it.

Care to elaborate on who you calls as bleeding heart liberals (to be sucinct)?
I have great respect for the Guardai, even if one of them caught me for speeding, I wouldnt blame them for the penalty points. I would bet they are pretty demoralised, and I cant blame them. The sooner the government actually sorts out this mess and gives the guards the funding they need, the better.

But, I am strongly supportive of Civil Liberties, and very much opposed to the erosion of cival liberties and privacy protection in countries like the US and the UK.

Gaspode

Nuttzy wrote:

Anyone else starting to think the guards are completely useless regards dealing with crime. Anyone else of the opinion that they are just lazy and try to avoid having to deal with a lot of whats regarded as petty crime or minor crimes, as the guards and polititions like to call it.

No I dont.

I reckon the main problem here is the non existance of proper garda patrolling and acting as deterrants. Also, their complete lack of interest when they are called for these crimes doesnt exactly help.

Anyone got any views on this?

The main problem is not the gards - its the bloody skangers causing the petty crime. The gardai are not perfect but they certainly are not capable of being in every place at every time (they leave that to the gods) so there's only so much thay can do.

The Irish these days, are guilty of showing little respect or support for their Gardai, but expect so much of them. You want them to be on every street in pairs, you want them to be in the Garda station, you want them sorting out traffic problems that we as crap drivers have caused, and we want them catching 'real' criminals, not enforcing the rules of the road. Basically we want them to be everywhere except when we want to 'bend' the rules to suit ourselves (e.g. speeding).

give them a break

Cozmo

My freind (15) got punched in the face by a 35 year old man, called the garda and they showed up 3 MOTHS AFTER! The bloke had moved out by then.

And when my freind threw a rock at a car the garda show up 5 minute's later. They dont give a **** about anyone under 18, they think wre just prank calling or whatever.