[US/IRL] 3X12 - "Par Avion" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

dan_y · 20-03-2007 03:40PM

you all (generalisation) keep saying how they couldn't spend as long as they have on the island without discovering all of this stuff - but there are places on achill island I've never seen and I've stayed there for 3 months before. the survivors have pretty much lived on the beach, in the caves, and in the hatch. besides the main characters, they've only gone into the jungle for food. and when the main characters do go farther in, it's to find something specific. even sayid, the resident gijoe-of-all-trades, followed the beaches around the island when he was looking for rousseau. it's not bull island, the place is huge - it took ana lucia's team days to reach the other survivors from their beach. and the barracks (according to the map) is in the centre of the island - somewhere no one has had any reason to go, until now.

Sad Professor · 20-03-2007 04:12PM

8

I agree with the above. Also many of the times they've gone exploring they've run into the Others who made them turn back, not to mention Smokey. It's a big island and most of the survivors aren't too concerned with it's secrets.

and the barracks (according to the map) is in the centre of the island - somewhere no one has had any reason to go, until now

I think the Pearl is in the centre of the island and that the Barracks is on the opposite side, close to the Arrow and where the Tailies landed. Goodwin was able to get there within 10 minutes of the crash.

abelard · 20-03-2007 04:37PM

8

Sad Professor wrote:

I agree with the above. Also many of the times they've gone exploring they've run into the Others who made them turn back, not to mention Smokey. It's a big island and most of the survivors aren't too concerned with it's secrets.

I think the Pearl is in the centre of the island and that the Barracks is on the opposite side, close to the Arrow and where the Tailies landed. Goodwin was able to get there within 10 minutes of the crash.

Hopefully my memory isn't letting me down on this one, but back when we first saw the orientation video in the Pearl, Marvin Candle/Mark Wickman was explaining the protocol of the station to whomever would be resident within. Didn't he say that, at the end of the shift, the worker would go to the Pala Ferry (this was where the finale of season 2 was) and be taken by boat to the barracks?

This makes no sense based on what we now know of the location of the barracks. I wonder if it was a mistake or intentional.

Sad Professor · 20-03-2007 04:50PM

8

abelard wrote:

Hopefully my memory isn't letting me down on this one, but back when we first saw the orientation video in the Pearl, Marvin Candle/Mark Wickman was explaining the protocol of the station to whomever would be resident within. Didn't he say that, at the end of the shift, the worker would go to the Pala Ferry (this was where the finale of season 2 was) and be taken by boat to the barracks?

This makes no sense based on what we now know of the location of the barracks. I wonder if it was a mistake or intentional.

That's right but I don't see any problem with it. If the barracks is on the other side of the island it would be a lot quicker to get there by boat. I assume Pala Ferry is along the coast somewhere between the Staff and the Swan.

ZiabR · 20-03-2007 04:54PM

8

Sad Professor wrote:

That's right but I don't see any problem with it. If the barracks is on the other side of the island it would be a lot quicker to get there by boat. I assume Pala Ferry is along the coast somewhere between the Staff and the Swan.

That would be my assumption also. It would make sense to use the boat.

csk · 20-03-2007 05:01PM

7

abelard wrote:

Hopefully my memory isn't letting me down on this one, but back when we first saw the orientation video in the Pearl, Marvin Candle/Mark Wickman was explaining the protocol of the station to whomever would be resident within. Didn't he say that, at the end of the shift, the worker would go to the Pala Ferry (this was where the finale of season 2 was) and be taken by boat to the barracks?

This makes no sense based on what we now know of the location of the barracks. I wonder if it was a mistake or intentional.

lol I was going to ask that same question, great minds and all that!

Is this evidence that the writers are indeed making things up as they go along or just a continuity error? The Desmond shooting the birds also doesn't make sense.

Anyway it was a good epsiode, especially liked Mikhail's brain melting, it caught me by surprise because I thought they would not work. Locke's comment "a...a...a sonic weapon fence" made me laugh too. Kate taking on a more assertive leader role is good to see hopefully they won't ruin this by making her go all googly at Jack again, that whole love triangle thing the writers are trying to push is really lame imo.

All in all a good episode that at least is showing signs of the series moving forward and I can't wait until next week.

csk · 20-03-2007 05:05PM

7

Sad Professor wrote:

That's right but I don't see any problem with it. If the barracks is on the other side of the island it would be a lot quicker to get there by boat. I assume Pala Ferry is along the coast somewhere between the Staff and the Swan.

But is the barraks not the same as Othersville that we saw at the openng of season three. Was that not slap bang in the middle of the island? Or am I just mixing the two up and they are not one and the same?

ZiabR · 20-03-2007 05:11PM

8

The clip we seen is an airal view of the others encampment. It does not show much around the encampment so there is no way of knowing if that is the centre of the Island.

Sad Professor · 20-03-2007 05:11PM

8

csk wrote:

But is the barraks not the same as Othersville that we saw at the openng of season three. Was that not slap bang in the middle of the island? Or am I just mixing the two up and they are not one and the same?

Yeah the barracks and otherville are the same but it's not in the middle of the island. When the plane broke up over otherville in the season opener the tail section went down very close by so it must be near the coastline.

Here's a pic:

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Lost301theothersplaceintheisland.jpg

JBoyle4eva · 20-03-2007 05:25PM

9

Thought it was a fairly decent ep. Gave it a 10 for many reason:

Clare's character being explored

The twist @ the end with Jack @ the "others/hostiles" camp enjoying football.

But, mainly the 10 is for the entertainment value we've not received in a while!

Basq · 20-03-2007 05:39PM

7

JBoyle4eva wrote:

Clare's character being explored

I'd certainly like to give her character an explore...

..... "if ya's know what i meannnnnnnn!!!" *

I do in fact mean a metaphorical exploration of her characters wants, needs, dreams and ambitions!

ZiabR · 20-03-2007 05:41PM

8

basquille wrote:

I'd certainly like to give her character an explore...

..... "if ya's know what i meannnnnnnn!!!" *

I do in fact mean a metaphorical exploration of her characters wants, needs, dreams and ambitions!

haha, dirty dirty...

Killaqueen!!! · 20-03-2007 05:45PM

8

With episodes like these, I never read the whole thread before posting a reply. That's a good sign. It means I'm so excited to talk about this episode that I don't have time to read other peoples comments before me (selfish, I know. But I'll get round to it!)

One of the best episodes of season 3. I bet the peopls who were slagging season 3 are pretty ashamed right now, because lately the episodes have been top of their game.

It's great that we have some action at the beach instead of just focussing on Kate/Sayid/Locke, which they could have done. Claires plan was good, it was a cheesy note that she attached to the bird at the end, though! Usually Charlie just p1sses me off (and to think I loved him in series 1) but it was so sweet that Charlie would have got killed trying to catch that bird just for Desmond. Another thing that the writers could have messed up; at the beginning when we see Charlie and Desmond talking to each other - it's obvious it's to do with Charlie dying because of something or other. If we thought about it enough we could have figured it out with little information - but it's nice that it was all wrapped up at the end...that we knew why Charlie and Desmond were acting this way and more importantly somebody else (Claire) knows about Desmonds weird psychic power.

The scenes with Patchey were good. I remember Ben saying something while he was captured; "Our leader is a great man....but he is not a forgiving one". When we found out that Ben was in charge I thought he was talking about himself...In this episode Patchey says something about their leader as well and it is not Ben (as I assumed). So I wonder who is it? Not Alvar Hanso surely?

The security pylons were interesting. On one hand I didn't want Patchey to die (even though I knew he wouldn't tell them anything and the Others wouldn't trade Jack) but I still would have liked the Losties to have something to bargain for...a la when they held Ben in captive. Anyway, it was really cool when all the foam came out of his mouth and the blood out of his ears. I was thinking that if Sawyer came along on the trip (and had he gone first over the pylons), it would be like his character to pretend to be being electrocuted once he dropped down, just to scare the others. Would have been funny to see!

Great closing scene with Jack. Great...but it still annoyed me. It's Jack after all...he's the 'hero' - the Others can't have him! I was wondering why nobody was stopping him when he was running - and how he had seen the Kate etc. in the bushes so quickly.

So what are the options?

A) The Others are essentially the 'good guys' and the Losties are the 'bad guys'

Jack was brainwashed like Alex's fella (who, btw, seems to be slightly more on the Other's 'side')

C) The Others simply told them the whole story (why they want certain people - why they kidnapped the children etc.)

This could overlap with option A and it could be that the Others are creating a sort of Utopia. Picking the best people (I don't know how they determine who is good and who is not. Speaking of the list...we now know that Kate and Sayid are not on the list but Locke is (as we assumed from Ben supposedly going to get him, before he supposedly got captured by Danielle).

I agree with Patchey though - Locke has changed....I wonder whats up...

Wow I have written so much and it's all over the place. Sorry about that. It's just that we're slowly getting more answers and there's so many possibilities! Let's just hope next week doesn't let us down and it's not a filler....

Killaqueen!!! · 20-03-2007 05:49PM

8

Sad Professor wrote:

Yeah the barracks and otherville are the same but it's not in the middle of the island. When the plane broke up over otherville in the season opener the tail section went down very close by so it must be near the coastline.

Here's a pic:

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Lost301theothersplaceintheisland.jpg

What? I thought the barracks was where Walt was taken to with Ms Klugh etc.? And wasn't that found to be abandoned, and in fact there was no Dharma station there at all? I seem to remember Sayid going there...it was near the coast I think...although it was high up on a cliff. I hope there's a good shot of the map that Sayid has in the next episode!

Why aren't the Others worried about the Losties finding them? It didn't seem that long of a trek to get to Othersville....although it is in the centre of the island right? But then it only took Goodwin 10minutes to get to the coast. Ahhhh! Confusing!

Another point about Claires flashback - I was crying when she was apologising to her mam who was in the coma...saying it was all her fault! It was so sad!

Not many would have got the Jack+Claire being related thing (unless of course they read it on here which many people did and then just claimed to have copped on to it themselves!)...I thought it was going to be Jack and Kate (remember Kate's mam had blonde hair...played by the actress who played Zelda in Sabrina the teenage witch!) because I remember Ana Lucia's flashback where she was driving in the car with Jack's dad and they stopped to go up to this womans house. Christian was screaming "She's my daughter too!" etc. and so I copped on that Jack had a half sister but I wasn't sure if it was Kate or someone else...

Sorry about waffling on there. I'm just pretty proud of myself for figuring that out after that season 2 ana lucia episode!

ZiabR · 20-03-2007 05:56PM

8

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

With episodes like these, I never read the whole thread before posting a reply. That's a good sign. It means I'm so excited to talk about this episode that I don't have time to read other peoples comments before me (selfish, I know. But I'll get round to it!)

One of the best episodes of season 3. I bet the peopls who were slagging season 3 are pretty ashamed right now, because lately the episodes have been top of their game.

It's great that we have some action at the beach instead of just focussing on Kate/Sayid/Locke, which they could have done. Claires plan was good, it was a cheesy note that she attached to the bird at the end, though! Usually Charlie just p1sses me off (and to think I loved him in series 1) but it was so sweet that Charlie would have got killed trying to catch that bird just for Desmond. Another thing that the writers could have messed up; at the beginning when we see Charlie and Desmond talking to each other - it's obvious it's to do with Charlie dying because of something or other. If we thought about it enough we could have figured it out with little information - but it's nice that it was all wrapped up at the end...that we knew why Charlie and Desmond were acting this way and more importantly somebody else (Claire) knows about Desmonds weird psychic power.

The scenes with Patchey were good. I remember Ben saying something while he was captured; "Our leader is a great man....but he is not a forgiving one". When we found out that Ben was in charge I thought he was talking about himself...In this episode Patchey says something about their leader as well and it is not Ben (as I assumed). So I wonder who is it? Not Alvar Hanso surely?

The security pylons were interesting. On one hand I didn't want Patchey to die (even though I knew he wouldn't tell them anything and the Others wouldn't trade Jack) but I still would have liked the Losties to have something to bargain for...a la when they held Ben in captive. Anyway, it was really cool when all the foam came out of his mouth and the blood out of his ears. I was thinking that if Sawyer came along on the trip (and had he gone first over the pylons), it would be like his character to pretend to be being electrocuted once he dropped down, just to scare the others. Would have been funny to see!

Great closing scene with Jack. Great...but it still annoyed me. It's Jack after all...he's the 'hero' - the Others can't have him! I was wondering why nobody was stopping him when he was running - and how he had seen the Kate etc. in the bushes so quickly.

So what are the options?

A) The Others are essentially the 'good guys' and the Losties are the 'bad guys'

Jack was brainwashed like Alex's fella (who, btw, seems to be slightly more on the Other's 'side')

C) The Others simply told them the whole story (why they want certain people - why they kidnapped the children etc.)

This could overlap with option A and it could be that the Others are creating a sort of Utopia. Picking the best people (I don't know how they determine who is good and who is not. Speaking of the list...we now know that Kate and Sayid are not on the list but Locke is (as we assumed from Ben supposedly going to get him, before he supposedly got captured by Danielle).

I agree with Patchey though - Locke has changed....I wonder whats up...

Wow I have written so much and it's all over the place. Sorry about that. It's just that we're slowly getting more answers and there's so many possibilities! Let's just hope next week doesn't let us down and it's not a filler....

I still don't think Jack is brainwashed. He is a very smart man and i think that he is playing along with the Others just to gain their trust etc. He will gather info on them for a few eps and then he will make a decision on escaping. As i said before i would not be surprised if/when Kate/Loche/Sayid get to Jack that he acts weird and pretends to turn on his fellow losties JUST to gain trust with the others, much like a spy.

Sad Professor · 20-03-2007 05:56PM

8

Also, there's been some suggestion over at the Losttv forums that Charlie may have palmed the note before giving the bird to Claire—if you look carefully you can see what appears to be a piece of white paper in his hand. It may just be a production error though, but if not it might make for an interesting twist. Maybe Charlie has grown so close to Claire that he doesn't want to leave the island.

Sad Professor · 20-03-2007 06:03PM

8

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

What? I thought the barracks was where Walt was taken to with Ms Klugh etc.? And wasn't that found to be abandoned, and in fact there was no Dharma station there at all? I seem to remember Sayid going there...it was near the coast I think...although it was high up on a cliff. I hope there's a good shot of the map that Sayid has in the next episode!

Why aren't the Others worried about the Losties finding them? It didn't seem that long of a trek to get to Othersville....although it is in the centre of the island right? But then it only took Goodwin 10minutes to get to the coast. Ahhhh! Confusing!

Sayid's map (from the Flame) was of the barracks, including the name. And it's definitely near the coastline, look at the pic I posted.

anotherlostie · 20-03-2007 08:52PM

8

dan_y wrote:

you all (generalisation) keep saying how they couldn't spend as long as they have on the island without discovering all of this stuff - but there are places on achill island I've never seen and I've stayed there for 3 months before. the survivors have pretty much lived on the beach, in the caves, and in the hatch. besides the main characters, they've only gone into the jungle for food. and when the main characters do go farther in, it's to find something specific. even sayid, the resident gijoe-of-all-trades, followed the beaches around the island when he was looking for rousseau. it's not bull island, the place is huge - it took ana lucia's team days to reach the other survivors from their beach. and the barracks (according to the map) is in the centre of the island - somewhere no one has had any reason to go, until now.

I agree that in 80 odd days, you could not expect the entire island to be mapped, even with Sayid at work. But surely Rousseau would have seen the friggin fence at some point;I mean it's not like she spent the last 16 years watching reruns of Oprah and Dr. Phil...

cooker3 · 20-03-2007 09:09PM

anotherlostie wrote:

I mean it's not like she spent the last 16 years watching reruns of Oprah and Dr. Phil...

How do you know she hasn't!

Sad Professor · 20-03-2007 10:03PM

8

anotherlostie wrote:

I agree that in 80 odd days, you could not expect the entire island to be mapped, even with Sayid at work. But surely Rousseau would have seen the friggin fence at some point

Yeah I find this hard to believe as well which is why I'm fairly sure Rousseau isn't telling the whole truth. There's a reason we haven't seen a flashback for her yet. But I'm almost certain that's she's not an Other and was telling the truth about most things, including her daughter being taken from her.

I suspect she may have been Dharma originally. She was acting very strange around Mikhail and was too eager to kill him, possibly to protect his secrets. Maybe she untied him. Also I'm not entirely convinced that Mikhail is one of Ben's people, he doesn't seem to fit the profile: he's clearly not an original inhabitant of the island (Juliet isn't either but with good reason imo) and seems more like a Dharma recruit. Maybe he was telling the truth the first time.

ZiabR · 21-03-2007 10:36AM

8

Yeah Mikhail was a strange char alright. He was mixing parts of the truth in with a bunch of lies. When he first started talking he mentioned where he came from and how he got to the island etc. Once he was found out to be an "Other" he changed his story a little but some of the points he made were exactly the same as the first conversation.

I think he was partly telling the truth but 70% of it was lies. As for Rousseau, she is defo not telling the whole truth and knows alot more than the losties think.

Lothaar · 21-03-2007 10:54AM

Is it possible that the entire series is based loosely on John Milton's 'Paradise Lost'? It would explain why it's called 'Lost', among other things. I studied Book I of this epic in secondary school, and briefly went over the other 11 books, but I'm far from an expert.

Perhaps a discussion worthy of another thread?

Keyzer · 21-03-2007 10:55AM

Can someone remind me why it was so obvious about Claire and Jack being brother and sister? I went off the boil with Lost for a while but am back into it now.

dan_y · 21-03-2007 11:03AM

anotherlostie wrote:

I agree that in 80 odd days, you could not expect the entire island to be mapped, even with Sayid at work. But surely Rousseau would have seen the friggin fence at some point;I mean it's not like she spent the last 16 years watching reruns of Oprah and Dr. Phil...

I agree, she knows the entire island back to front. she probably even knows about the second island. she's lying. I just don't know why. (or I'm wrong)

Star Lord · 21-03-2007 11:04AM

9

Its basically from Anna Lucia's flashback which involved her going around in Austrailia with Christian Shepherd, driving him to a house where he argued with a woman at the door because he wanted to see his daughter.

(In retrospect, it was probably Claires aunt at the door)

When you put 1 + 1 together, it had to be an Austrailian girl was his daughter, hence Claire.

Star Lord · 21-03-2007 11:08AM

9

anotherlostie wrote:

I agree that in 80 odd days, you could not expect the entire island to be mapped, even with Sayid at work. But surely Rousseau would have seen the friggin fence at some point;I mean it's not like she spent the last 16 years watching reruns of Oprah and Dr. Phil...

I think she's part of the Dharma team that went to the Island. The "others" were there long before that.

"We're not the bad guys here" = The "others" are 'good' and the Dharma guys were the 'bad' guys.

basquille wrote:

I'd certainly like to give her character an explore...

..... "if ya's know what i meannnnnnnn!!!" *

Mmmmmm... Claire exploration... *drools*

dan_y · 21-03-2007 11:09AM

Lothaar wrote:

Is it possible that the entire series is based loosely on John Milton's 'Paradise Lost'? It would explain why it's called 'Lost', among other things. I studied Book I of this epic in secondary school, and briefly went over the other 11 books, but I'm far from an expert.

Perhaps a discussion worthy of another thread?

paradise lost is about satan's war against god - how does it tie in? like what else would it explain?

dan_y · 21-03-2007 11:11AM

DamoElDiablo wrote:

"We're not the bad guys here" = The "others" are 'good' and the Dharma guys were the 'bad' guys.

so I wonder, who made evilblackcloud? or is that just part of the islands' appeal to sociopaths?

ZiabR · 21-03-2007 11:12AM

8

DamoElDiablo wrote:

Its basically from Anna Lucia's flashback which involved her going around in Austrailia with Christian Shepherd, driving him to a house where he argued with a woman at the door because he wanted to see his daughter.

(In retrospect, it was probably Claires aunt at the door)

When you put 1 + 1 together, it had to be an Austrailian girl was his daughter, hence Claire.

Yeah i re-watched this ep and it is clear as Damo says. It is Claires Aunt at the door and Christian is asking to see his Daughter. The argue for awhile and then he leaves.

Star Lord · 21-03-2007 11:24AM

9

The funny thing is we all took it at the time to be Claire's mum denying Christian from seeing his daughter, when now we know that it was Claire didn't want to see him and the Aunt also stopping him from seeing her.

[US/IRL] 3X12 - "Par Avion" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

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[US/IRL] 3X12 - "Par Avion" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]