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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 294 ✭✭jimbob955


    there will be very few changes, if any.

    Andy will want to give the lads a chance to right the wrongs of Paris. They have enough credit in the bank……….

    We might see Lowe back in, Maybe Conan/Ryan start, that's it.

    Andy needs to right the wrongs of Paris. Italy are looking good, and have a bounce in their step and no pressure on them. All the pressue will be on Ireland. We also need to build for the England game, so again, few changes if any.

    I would like Timoney at 7 and maybe Edogbo on the bench…… but is it wirth the risk dropping VDF?

    I do hope Andy rotates a bit more against Wales, but again that could be a must win game, and Wales are improving…….nada nada, drivel talk

    Another QF exit is looming fast over the horizon……….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 322 ✭✭cantwbr1


    I watched the most of the other matches at the weekend. No other team in any way matched the speed/power/accuracy of France. England was probably the closest but even they were probably only approaching 75-80% of what France were bringing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    JGP did not have a bad game. His box kicks were exceptional as usual. The fact that he's playing under a coach who has gone from a running rugby game to a turgid kick chase game might make it appear that his form has deserted him.

    Sure he missed some tackles, but also stopped the man's momentum. They were tough tackles to make and he didn't shirk them.

    Get Lancaster in, why have the guy who copied his homework, when you can have the original?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,966 ✭✭✭almostover


    We also need a reality check. The same French team beat us off the park in Dublin last year with their best player off the field injured.

    We then laboured to a narrow victory over Italy and followed that up with an autumn campaign that included losses to an average NZ team and a beat down to SA.

    The trend is obvious. Our level has fallen and we're in the pack now behind SA, Fra, Eng and NZ.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,362 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    England are at the forefront of the game when it comes to the revamped escorting laws. Ford is an excellent kicker and they always have at least three players at every contestable. One to jump and slap back and another two or three to pounce on the ball. It's a very well coordinated effort and one that takes a long time to develop accurately. It's not just what happens with those three or four players. If England win the contestable the entire team then needs to snap into a new attacking shape to make the most of the quick turnover ball against a disorganised and retreating defence.

    Ireland, in comparison, look at least a year behind the leading sides. The kicking is mostly fine tbh. JGP hung up some excellent contestables. But our chase and slap down needs so much work. TOB and Stockdale were really struggling to win anything. The odd time we won a battle in the air we made metres in the following phases. It's the best tactic for making those entries into the opposition half. We just aren't that good at it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,918 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    The big difference between now and 2016/17 is the capitulation of Welsh rugby and Wales going from a contender to by far the worst team in the competition, they have won only 2 of their last 21 6 nations games. That will put a gloss on our final position compared to the Schmidt era that has little to do with us. We were at least competitive in every game in 16' and 17' we were not competitive on Thursday .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,939 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    What from that analysis would you disagree with?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    Similar to the Monday before France, sticking my colours to the mast on what I think should be the team for Saturday:

    1. Loughman 2. Sheehan 3. Clarkson 4. McCarthy 5. Ryan 6. Beirne 7. Timoney 8. Doris 9. JGP 10. Prendergast 11. Lowe 12. McCloskey 13. Farrell 14. TOB 15. Stockdale 16. Milne 17. Kelleher 18. Furlong 19. Edogbo 20. Conan 21. Casey 22. Byrne 23. Osbourne

    Changes: Ryan to start, Beirne to 6, Timoney to start, Lowe back in, Farrell replaces Ringrose, Stockdale to fullback.

    Team I think Farrell will choose:

    1. Loughman 2. Sheehan 3. Furlong 4. McCarthy 5. Ryan 6. Beirne 7. JDVF 8. Doris 9. JGP 10. Prendergast 11. Lowe 12. McCloskey 13. Ringrose 14. TOB 15. Osbourne 16. Milne 17. Kelleher 18. Clarkson 19. Edogbo 20. Conan 21. Timoney 22. Casey 23. Crowley

    If my prediction on the starting team for what Farrell chooses is correct, my next prediction is this place will be a sh*tshow and extremely negative, and probably right to be 🙂.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,939 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    As critical as I've been of Farrell's conservatism in the past, I can't see him picking that starting 15. But if he does, I think it'd be a huge disappointment…

    I like the look of your 15 tho. I'm not sure I love Beirne at 6, but it is a way to get all of McCarthy, Ryan and him into the start 15 so I'd be fine with that. Personally think Crowley needs to start this one at 10, he needs minutes there, with a view to starting Prendergast in the rest. I think that'd make it easier to pair him with Casey, who also needs to gametime too, imo. I've no idea who I'd pick to cover 10 from the bench then tho, think you could make an argument either way….

    It does feel like a pretty significant and difficult selection for Farrell this time round tho…



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,966 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Amazing that you put in Ryan and Timoney, who both did really well, when arguably the most outstanding player to come off the bench was Milne.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    But then in the flip side France have gone from mid table fodder to being a major contender again.

    I would also question the quality of the sides in 2016 & 2017, were any on par with the France side on Thursday? I know we were utterly abysmal in Murrayfield and Cardiff in 2017 but were lucky that Scotland/ Wales just weren’t very good (both finished bottom half) so we were able to stay competitive. Even the French side we lost to in Paris in 2016, which was probably the worst game in the 6N for about 10 years I’d wager, that very French team would end up coming 5th…I would argue that’s just as bad as losing to a great French side like we did on Thursday.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    Milne offers far more as an impact sub than Loughman. Loughman was very solid in the scrum, something I was worried about him pre game. No need to change that up imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Ireland, in comparison, look at least a year behind the leading sides. 

    World Cup is a year and a half away, so what you're saying is we're on track to peak just at the right time?

    4D Chess.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    Well saying Ireland are “part of the pack” behind the 4 sides mentioned when in the last year the sides in that pack we beat in comfortable fashion. Let’s also not forget we beat England in the last 12 months as well.


    Ireland are still certainly part of the top 5 group, granted probably towards the lower end like 4th or 5th. Like I said in a previous post I think SA are 1st, France 2nd and then England 3rd with NZL/Ireland 4th/5th with NZL edging 4th due to beating us in their H2H recently.


    I do think in reality 3-5 the gap isn’t that big, the only difference being how consistent England have been but if Ireland beat them in 2 weeks there could very easily be a shake up in the 3-5th place ranking…I don’t envision us doing so as we look a mess right now but far from mission impossible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    My thinking on 10 in general is the constant changing isn't helping either of them. I think they need to just give one of them a run of games. I would though be in favour of giving Crowley the Wales game to try build some confidence. It looks shot at the moment.

    In relation to the bench spot, I think Ireland will be leading with 60 minutes or so gone, but it will be close. I would be rather Byrne on to close it out, mainly due to his kicking in general being better than Crowley. That said if we losing with 20 minutes to go it would be Crowley that I want to bring on. So it really swings on what position they see Ireland being in with 60ish minutes gone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,966 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    You could say the very same thing about Ryan and Timoney. Milne deserves his opportunity after that performance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,939 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    But this:

    Well saying Ireland are “part of the pack” behind the 4 sides mentioned [SA, NZ, Fra and Eng] when in the last year the sides in that pack we beat in comfortable fashion

    isn't accurate? Correct me if I'm wrong here but, as you mentioned, England are the only team from that group we've beaten in the last year, and that was a 1 score game. This time round we're away from home versus them, and the're on, what, a 12 game winning streak?

    The "beat in comfortable fashion" realistically came from our opponents in our 4 losses vs SA, NZ and Fra (twice).

    That's the reality, unfortunately. I think we're currently miles behnd FRA and SA, and definitely behind NZ and Eng. Let's hope we can turn that form around in a couple of weeks in Twickenham, but at the moment, it'd very much be against form and expectation. I reckon we'll 2 score underdogs going into that game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,362 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I think some of Ireland's issues are also mental. We're just slow on the uptake when we win turnover ball or make a big line break. It's like we aren't anticipating it and don't have enough players ready to support and execute the next phases of attack.

    This clip was made to highlight Dupont's excellent defence in sacking JGP, but where is the matters support? He picks up the ball and snipes because it's the only thing he can do. Other than the players resourcing the ruck there isn't anyone else ready to receive a pass and keep the attack going. We're subsequently turned over and a promising attacking position is wasted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,362 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Italy confirm that Brex is unavailable for selection this weekend. Capuozzo is available however.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,966 ✭✭✭almostover


    I fail to see what Joe McCarthy did last Thursday to keep his starting jersey. If he was named on the bench he should consider himself lucky.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,966 ✭✭✭almostover


    I would debate that we're comfortably in 5th at the moment. Only a defeat of England in 2 weeks time would change my mind on that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    I don’t disagree with us being miles behind SA and France, that much is obvious but that wasn’t the point I was arguing.

    The point is we’ve beaten England already in that period and while we lost to NZL, you would also argue how much did us not playing any rugby going into it played a role. I would say the gap between 3-5 is a lot more debatable due to there not being as much concrete evidence. From what I’ve seen of England they aren’t as good as France or SA so it’ll be a clear indication of where we rank amongst the rest of the pack.


    The clear evidence we have so far is we are well behind France & SA but we are also well ahead of Scotland & Australia etc. the question that remains is where we rank in the middle portion, we beat England but lost to NZL whereas England lost to us but beat NZL and NZL beat us but lost to England. England obviously are now on a 12 game win streak so will be a different proposition to the one we played last year but at the same time of that 12 game win streak how many “wow” games have they had? NZL probably but other than that it’s not been that impressive performance wise, even the France win while an impressive result was probably one of the flukiest wins you’ll ever see in rugby (even the most one eyed English fan would admit that). What impresses me most about England is their consistency, while not being as mind blowingly good as some of France/SA’s best games their consistency has made up for it. We’ll definitely be underdogs but I doubt it’ll be 2 score underdogs unless Ireland are dreadful this weekend and/or England are impressive. I suspect it’ll be like 7-8 points underdogs, similar to our handicap in 2020 when we went to Twickenham, which conveniently is how I see the game going unfortunately bar massive improvement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    4th or 5th for me, NZL may have beat us but over the last 12 months I think their worst performances have been so bad that it possibly drags them down despite beating us.


    I think 1 and 2 in the world is fairly locked in for the moment. England are 3rd for me but I don’t think their miles ahead at the moment, if they beat us in 2 weeks in convincing fashion then I’d confidently nail them in as 3rd in the world with the question being can they challenge the top 2, on the flip side if they lose to us I think Ireland can certainly make an argument for being ahead given they also beat England 12 months ago



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    Really rate Brex so was relieved for our sake to hear this…then I hear Capuzzo is available and my heart sank, if we are falling off tackles like we were on Tuesday and he gets the ball we are in trouble.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,785 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If Farrell is planning to change things up in terms of playing style a bit and in personnel (and I really hope he is for both) then the most logical thing to do is pick the expected England starting team against Italy and get them bedding in the changes.

    So I don't mind if he goes very strong against Italy as long as it is not the exact same as the France team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 360 ✭✭big-al


    you think he is going to drop Stockdale ahead of TOB (looked like a rabbit in the headlights) even thought he pulled O’Brien early vs France?


    I think we’re more likely see Baloucoune at 14, than Lowe at 11.


    my team

    1. Loughman
    2. Sheehan
    3. Clarkson
    4. McCarthy
    5. Ryan
    6. Beirne
    7. VDF
    8. Doris
    9. JGP
    10. Byrne
    11. Stockdale
    12. McCloskey
    13. Farrell
    14. Baloucoune
    15. Osbourne
    16. Stewart
    17. Milne
    18. Furlong
    19. Edogbo
    20. Conan
    21. Casey
    22. Crowley
    23. Ringrose


    Team I think Farrell will select

    1. Loughman
    2. Sheehan
    3. Furlong
    4. McCarthy
    5. Ryan
    6. Beirne
    7. VDF
    8. Doris
    9. JGP
    10. Prendergast
    11. Stockdale
    12. McCloskey
    13. Ringrose
    14. Baloucoune
    15. Osbourne
    16. Kelleher
    17. Milne
    18. Clarkson
    19. Edogbo
    20. Conan
    21. Casey
    22. Crowley
    23. Lowe/Farrell


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    The difference is the guys Ryan & Timoney are proposing to replace did not play well last Thursday; Loughman did.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Italy are arguably superior across the backline. Garbisi is a quality 10, their centres are excellent, and they have some quick and dangerous wingers. They're no mugs.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,539 ✭✭✭✭phog


    We have two extra days to prep for this game. I can understand some people being despondent after last week but losing to Italy is not on the horizon.



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