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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    My thinking on 10 in general is the constant changing isn't helping either of them. I think they need to just give one of them a run of games. I would though be in favour of giving Crowley the Wales game to try build some confidence. It looks shot at the moment.

    In relation to the bench spot, I think Ireland will be leading with 60 minutes or so gone, but it will be close. I would be rather Byrne on to close it out, mainly due to his kicking in general being better than Crowley. That said if we losing with 20 minutes to go it would be Crowley that I want to bring on. So it really swings on what position they see Ireland being in with 60ish minutes gone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 43,052 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    You could say the very same thing about Ryan and Timoney. Milne deserves his opportunity after that performance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,060 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    But this:

    Well saying Ireland are “part of the pack” behind the 4 sides mentioned [SA, NZ, Fra and Eng] when in the last year the sides in that pack we beat in comfortable fashion

    isn't accurate? Correct me if I'm wrong here but, as you mentioned, England are the only team from that group we've beaten in the last year, and that was a 1 score game. This time round we're away from home versus them, and the're on, what, a 12 game winning streak?

    The "beat in comfortable fashion" realistically came from our opponents in our 4 losses vs SA, NZ and Fra (twice).

    That's the reality, unfortunately. I think we're currently miles behnd FRA and SA, and definitely behind NZ and Eng. Let's hope we can turn that form around in a couple of weeks in Twickenham, but at the moment, it'd very much be against form and expectation. I reckon we'll 2 score underdogs going into that game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,421 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    I think some of Ireland's issues are also mental. We're just slow on the uptake when we win turnover ball or make a big line break. It's like we aren't anticipating it and don't have enough players ready to support and execute the next phases of attack.

    This clip was made to highlight Dupont's excellent defence in sacking JGP, but where is the matters support? He picks up the ball and snipes because it's the only thing he can do. Other than the players resourcing the ruck there isn't anyone else ready to receive a pass and keep the attack going. We're subsequently turned over and a promising attacking position is wasted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,421 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Italy confirm that Brex is unavailable for selection this weekend. Capuozzo is available however.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭almostover


    I fail to see what Joe McCarthy did last Thursday to keep his starting jersey. If he was named on the bench he should consider himself lucky.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭almostover


    I would debate that we're comfortably in 5th at the moment. Only a defeat of England in 2 weeks time would change my mind on that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    I don’t disagree with us being miles behind SA and France, that much is obvious but that wasn’t the point I was arguing.

    The point is we’ve beaten England already in that period and while we lost to NZL, you would also argue how much did us not playing any rugby going into it played a role. I would say the gap between 3-5 is a lot more debatable due to there not being as much concrete evidence. From what I’ve seen of England they aren’t as good as France or SA so it’ll be a clear indication of where we rank amongst the rest of the pack.


    The clear evidence we have so far is we are well behind France & SA but we are also well ahead of Scotland & Australia etc. the question that remains is where we rank in the middle portion, we beat England but lost to NZL whereas England lost to us but beat NZL and NZL beat us but lost to England. England obviously are now on a 12 game win streak so will be a different proposition to the one we played last year but at the same time of that 12 game win streak how many “wow” games have they had? NZL probably but other than that it’s not been that impressive performance wise, even the France win while an impressive result was probably one of the flukiest wins you’ll ever see in rugby (even the most one eyed English fan would admit that). What impresses me most about England is their consistency, while not being as mind blowingly good as some of France/SA’s best games their consistency has made up for it. We’ll definitely be underdogs but I doubt it’ll be 2 score underdogs unless Ireland are dreadful this weekend and/or England are impressive. I suspect it’ll be like 7-8 points underdogs, similar to our handicap in 2020 when we went to Twickenham, which conveniently is how I see the game going unfortunately bar massive improvement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    4th or 5th for me, NZL may have beat us but over the last 12 months I think their worst performances have been so bad that it possibly drags them down despite beating us.


    I think 1 and 2 in the world is fairly locked in for the moment. England are 3rd for me but I don’t think their miles ahead at the moment, if they beat us in 2 weeks in convincing fashion then I’d confidently nail them in as 3rd in the world with the question being can they challenge the top 2, on the flip side if they lose to us I think Ireland can certainly make an argument for being ahead given they also beat England 12 months ago



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    Really rate Brex so was relieved for our sake to hear this…then I hear Capuzzo is available and my heart sank, if we are falling off tackles like we were on Tuesday and he gets the ball we are in trouble.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 34,189 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If Farrell is planning to change things up in terms of playing style a bit and in personnel (and I really hope he is for both) then the most logical thing to do is pick the expected England starting team against Italy and get them bedding in the changes.

    So I don't mind if he goes very strong against Italy as long as it is not the exact same as the France team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 377 ✭✭big-al


    you think he is going to drop Stockdale ahead of TOB (looked like a rabbit in the headlights) even thought he pulled O’Brien early vs France?


    I think we’re more likely see Baloucoune at 14, than Lowe at 11.


    my team

    1. Loughman
    2. Sheehan
    3. Clarkson
    4. McCarthy
    5. Ryan
    6. Beirne
    7. VDF
    8. Doris
    9. JGP
    10. Byrne
    11. Stockdale
    12. McCloskey
    13. Farrell
    14. Baloucoune
    15. Osbourne
    16. Stewart
    17. Milne
    18. Furlong
    19. Edogbo
    20. Conan
    21. Casey
    22. Crowley
    23. Ringrose


    Team I think Farrell will select

    1. Loughman
    2. Sheehan
    3. Furlong
    4. McCarthy
    5. Ryan
    6. Beirne
    7. VDF
    8. Doris
    9. JGP
    10. Prendergast
    11. Stockdale
    12. McCloskey
    13. Ringrose
    14. Baloucoune
    15. Osbourne
    16. Kelleher
    17. Milne
    18. Clarkson
    19. Edogbo
    20. Conan
    21. Casey
    22. Crowley
    23. Lowe/Farrell


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,645 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    The difference is the guys Ryan & Timoney are proposing to replace did not play well last Thursday; Loughman did.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,972 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Italy are arguably superior across the backline. Garbisi is a quality 10, their centres are excellent, and they have some quick and dangerous wingers. They're no mugs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,622 ✭✭✭✭phog


    We have two extra days to prep for this game. I can understand some people being despondent after last week but losing to Italy is not on the horizon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    They are no mugs but realistically only 3 probably get into the Irish backline (Garbisi, Menoncello and Capuozzo…if he was available Brex possibly as well).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,495 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Replacing Stockdale with Lowe just means Lowe dodged the Paris bullet and gets rewarded with playing Italy at home for his poor form. It would be a pointless change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    Tbh, if we play like we did in the last 30 minutes we should be okay…but that first 50 was frighteningly bad that I certainly won’t be counting my chicken. That first 50 will sting for awhile I suspect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 322 ✭✭cantwbr1


    If we’re trying to be positive we can’t ignore the impact of the Lions tour on those who travelled. They have had minimal downtime since pre-season 2024 so they must be fatigued, especially mentally, which may account for some of the poor start . They will recover, but probably not until next season when they will have a proper break and pre-season



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,622 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Giles often said that the stock of an injured player in a team that is underperforming is always higher than those that play.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,972 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    All the playmakers so 😋 Love how far Italy have come, honestly wouldn't begrudge them a win



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,569 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Giles from Buffy?? 😉

    its like most sayings, there is an equal and opposite version for most sayings. ill take your above and counter it with "the best ability is availablity".

    reminds of the saying "fortune favours the brave" being countered with "fools rush in where angels fear to tread" or "better safe than sorry" or again, in a similar vein, "Look before you leap" versus "He who hesitates is lost"

    "Many hands make light work" compared to "Too many cooks spoil the broth"

    "Absence makes the heart grow fonder" …... "Out of sight, out of mind"

    i could go on…..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,676 ✭✭✭SaoPaulo41


    Brex out for the Italians (big loss) however Capuazzo and Varney back for the game.

    Post edited by SaoPaulo41 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    I've not dropped Stockdale from my own team. I have moved him to 15, where he has been excellent this season. Moved Osbourne away from fullback also, which just isn't where he is best suited. But yep, I do think Farrell drops him completely to get Lowe in and keep Osbourne at 15. Wrong call imo.

    TOB was poor last week, but he has been good this season. I don't think he is dropped after 1 poor game, especially for Baloucoune who I don't think has ever been excellent for Ireland to my mind and probably isn't busy enough for Farrell. Who knows though, I think the backlash and general sentiment around puts a few positions up in the air.

    Yep, I agree with you but with the back 3 players that are out, and unless he shocks us and names Ward/Kenny (both of whom were poor for the A team), I can see Lowe starting this.

    The other thing that I don't see happening, but would be a possible curve ball would be 11 Stockdale 14 TOB 15 Crowley. Again I don't see it happening but would be possible if he wants to keep the wingers the same as last week, and add a second playmaker. Frawley is completely out of the reckoning after that performance on Friday in my opinion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,060 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    We’ll definitely be underdogs but I doubt it’ll be 2 score underdogs unless Ireland are dreadful this weekend and/or England are impressive. I suspect it’ll be like 7-8 points underdogs

    Just for the sake of clarity, by "2 score underdogs", I meant in the 8-14 point region so we're not a million miles apart there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    In that case I agree but I suspect it’s a single digit handicap, unless there are some surprise results this week that might influence the handicap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,972 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Stumping for a majority Ulster backline wouldn't be a terrible idea imo. Replace Ringrose with Osborne or Hume. Put Stockdale at 15, Baloucoune on the wing. I'd like to see Doak get a spot on the bench too



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    It’s not necessarily a case of dropping TOB, it’s more about wanting to see Baloucoune get a run in the team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,934 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Yes the Schmidt era has a significant gloss from France blowing hot and cold for the entirety of it but the collapse of Wales is on a whole other level. France could still show up throughout that period and notably ran England close in 2017 away from home, while currently Wales are utterly spent as a competitive force.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭Rayray98


    I mean yes of course Wales are practically a walk over now whereas France were a tough side but one you’d be confident of beating. The big difference in Andy Farrells favour is we have yet to lose to a side that finished bottom half of the table whereas Schmidt lost to Wales & Scotland in 2017 who finished 4th and 5th and in 2016 lost to France who finished 5th. Personally , I find this worse than losing to a quality French side that we saw in Thursday, granted both suck!



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