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BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 756 ✭✭✭Tarabuses


    Another vanity project for DLRCoCo takes precedence over the daily lives of the ordinary people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,487 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    And by 'ordinary people' you presumably mean 'drivers'?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,339 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    To be fair the library does need to be expanded - I would not describe that as a vanity project.

    The issue really is that they aren’t providing a better alternative terminus.

    I don’t think that the current proposals put public transport users to the fore, do you?

    We will have a range of bus stops (used by the public) at a major transport interchange scattered across the area so that people may have to walk up to 450m to switch routes, rather than having them integrated together in one location.

    That flies in the face of good transport infrastructure planning.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,487 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Are those the bus stops though, or are they layover points for buses?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,339 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I said bus stops used by the public.

    The locations of the layovers are irrelevant to the public in terms of this discussion (but it’s important that they provide enough space for this - which they are doing).

    It will be 450m from stops 7719/10160 on Taney Road (used by routes 14 /A2 / A4 / S6) to the new L25 and 74 terminus stop on the bypass, which is being moved further away along the bypass as part of this. That is not a good thing.

    There are no bus shelters at the stops on Taney Road or Dundrum bypass and they are far less attractive places to wait than a purpose built interchange (or the existing 14 terminus), with relatively narrow footpaths at the stops on Taney Road.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,738 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Probably because it requires interaction with the driver and slower than the right hand validator. Don’t want to slow things down even further.

    I was in Paris a few weeks ago and I wasn’t too impressed with the virtual card there. It works somewhat okay on iPhone/Apple Wallet, but is very troublesome on Android devices.

    On Android, it doesn’t work with Google Wallet, instead you have to install two different apps, one to buy the ticket and another app with no UI, but needs lots of required permissions, I assume this app is talking to the NFC. When we installed the second app, it wouldn’t connect to their servers the first night, but got it working the next day.

    It really took a lot of setup and fiddling to get working.

    But even on iPhone it can be troublesome, you need an internet connection to buy a ticket, which can be troublesome for tourists and it is pretty slow to load. You have to buy a ticket each time, there is no Leap style epurse, where you can just load it up once and go. There is also no daily or weekly capping. Instead at the start of the day you have to figure out if you will use it enough to buy a 24 hour ticket or not.

    Having experienced these sort of virtual tickets now in Paris, I’ve got to say I’m not a fan. Of course I wouldn’t complain if Leap card supported this a few years ago, but I do think the just tap and pay any contactless debit card approach is a much better and easier approach.

    Of course everything else about the Metro and RER is spectacular.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 756 ✭✭✭Tarabuses


    Why would you presume that? I don't think a driver would be transferring between Luas and bus. Most of my time I am a pedestrian. Ordinary people are those who do not influence those in the ivory tower of DLRCoCo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 756 ✭✭✭Tarabuses


    Why can't the library be expanded on its current site?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,339 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Isn’t the current Carnegie library building a listed building?

    I doubt it can be materially altered?

    I’ve no issue with DLRCoCo building a new library and civic space, provided that a proper bus interchange is provided as well adjacent to the LUAS stop.

    What I would like to see is a proper bus interchange built at the northern end of the shopping centre site extending over where the road is currently, with the road from the Main St. to the bypass moved south of that interchange.

    Now if they want to build above it, fine, but there has to be a better solution than having the various stops scattered over such a wide area.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    They missed the mark in not CPOing a portion of the old shopping center site (the end by the current interchange), and then locate a bus interchange within that plot. Could have even designed it so that apartments could still be built above (although given how the current application is having difficulty with planning over building heights that may not have worked out great!)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Oops, only seen your edit after boards refreshed when I posted!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12 lego base


    Sorry to go on a tangent but to answer your question:

    It is a protected structure, and so is another Carnegie building which got expanded as per streeview between 2009-2011: https://maps.app.goo.gl/LPpbMyGKCRdMg3zN9?g_st=ac

    ...so on that point the Library could still in theory be expanded, instead of starting fresh on the bus terminal site. There would be so many constraints though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 166 ✭✭The Mathematician


    Stop 10160 is particularly bad. Just behind the stop where people would normally queue there is just mud with the kerb broken down. It is a twisted ankle waiting to happen. And it is a very busy stop, you could easily have 40 people get on and off the S6 at busy times.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,332 ✭✭✭Daith


    As an aside, I'm still surprised there isn't a single bus shelter on Parnell Square. There's plenty of space too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 756 ✭✭✭Tarabuses




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭George White


    The E1 service to Northwood keeps getting cancelled again in Bray. Especially at night. Do they not care about passengers? You get three or four buses coming down every ten minutes, but never one coming up. What is going on at the southern Cross?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,126 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Carnegie library in Greystones was also extensively remodelled and expanded a few years ago, but there's probably a limit to what you can do in terms of expansion and Dundrum is a big place that DLR have designated as a major town centre for the county.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,238 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Residents living in Chapelizod are reported to be angry with the NTA over the 26 being replaced with the 80 that was implemented under the F-Spine last month.

    They are going to voice their displeasure with the NTA by holding a protest in Chapelizod Village Square on the 29th of November.

    With the 80 being a 24hr bus route at this point. Does this route provide a much better service for people who live in the area as opposed to sticking with the 26?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,680 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    The 80 goes through the city centre so what is the issue?

    Its also now 24 hours.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,339 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The 80 no longer serves O'Connell Bridge, and has no stop between Lord Edward Street and George's Street, meaning many people now have to change or walk further. It's the only bus through Chapelizod and that kind of change is always going to be difficult to push through.

    The unreliability of the service is the fundamental problem - like the other routes recently introduced, the 80 does not have enough running time and multiple journeys are being cancelled or partially cancelled.

    If the bus was reliable then the routing change away from O'Connell Bridge wouldn't be as big an issue. But replacing a route with one that is utterly unreliable is just going to make that change all the more unpalatable.

    I suspect that a new roster is currently being worked on that will deliver a far more reliable service, but coming up with new rosters takes weeks rather than days, and as a result people will have to put up with this much poorer service.

    Meanwhile the NTA keep completely silent, once again not admitting that there are any problems at all and probably deluding themselves that all is rosy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭StreetLight


    The 24 hour service element is not new. Chapelizod has had a 24 hour service for years with the 26 for most of the day and the C5/C6 running through the area overnight. The C5/C6 still exist alongside the 80, so the overnight service has actually been enhanced.

    The issue is that residents seem to regard O'Connell Bridge as THE centre of the city.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,680 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Thanks.

    When you say partially cancelled, this is when the bus misses intermittent stops in order to catch up to the schedule or is it that the bus doesnt stop at the last set of stops, to get to the terminus on time?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭George White


    Same with the E1. Nothing indicates to explain why nothing is done about the frequent cancellations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭rx8


    Partially cancelled means that the bus is sent to a certain point along the route and then continue the journey from there…There's a union agreement that controllers completely ignore, that's supposed to forbid this. They are also not supposed to clear a loop at the start of a journey, and then remove the numbers and set-down only the rest of the way…

    The bus is not permitted to "skip" stops to catch up, neither is it permitted to "NOT" stop at certain stops. Once a journey commences, the bus is required to remain in service until the other terminus, unless some unavoidable incident befalls it on the journey. Accident/Incident/Assault/Soiling etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,339 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    rx8 has explained it very well.

    Just to add that partial cancellations can also happen where a driver is not available to take over from the handover point along a route. The service will only operate to or from the handover point depending on what the unavailable driver is supposed to be covering - so a 14 could operate as a 14c to Eden Quay and not continue, or it could start at Eden Quay.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,339 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I do really think that the fundamental problem is the unreliability - people will be more likely to accept the change if they can rely on the connections. The 80 schedule is simply not fit for purpose right now and that will make everything else a much bigger problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,680 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Thanks. So not entering service until stop 10 of 30 stops means the driver doesnt technically skip any stops?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,339 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The poster means skipping stops during the route having started from the terminus in service.

    The NTA do allow them to start a service mid-route to catch up - the problem with that is that large numbers of stops served uniquely by a route don’t get served for ages while stops that do have several routes serving them keep the services.

    It’s a case of people sitting behind desks not looking at the practical realities.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,680 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    If they leave the terminus in service and then skip some stops to get back on time, this means the bus is literally skipping stops.

    I think rx8 is saying they arent allowed to do that?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,339 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer




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