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BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Between Cuffe Street and Westmorland Street, they'll travel along Stephen's Green West to link up with E-spine, and then follow the same routing via Dawson Street and lower Grafton Street/College Green. I presume the Bellevue Avenue location is a misprint, that's a road out by Vincents Hospital!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,292 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    See here….

    Untitled Image

    Stops at St Stephen's Green East, Dawson Street, Westmoreland St and O'Connell Street northbound.

    Stops at O'Connell St., D'Olier St., Nassau St., Kildare St., St Stephen's Green East and South southbound.

    Full info here:

    https://www.transportforireland.ie/getting-around/by-bus/phase-7-f-spine/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,292 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    It is actually the NTA who come up with the initial running times (as I suspected all along) - that was confirmed by Dublin Bus in a social media video some months back. This would explain an awful lot about the scheduling problems that each phase has had in the initial rollout.

    In the meantime have a look on bustimes.org at the 23/24 timetables southbound at stop 181 in Glasnevin (Cremore Lawn) and the F1/F2/F3 timetables at Tolka Vale southbound and KCR northbound….

    They still cannot master how to produce integrated schedules. They are trying to have nice departure times and to also manage the integrated service - this means that there are lengthy and totally unnecessary waits in the schedules at locations where the routes join up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 421 ✭✭TranslatorPS


    The thing is that even if NTA dictate the running times, DB and GAI use different software and it shows in the quality of the timetables published later – I can't seem to recall any scheduled overtakes on any GAI routes, as the running time reductions are done sectionally.

    The 23/24 meetup is a joke and an insult. If you're joining two separate routes at a point, you don't smack in extra holding time, you move up the departure. That first inbound 23 should be at 5.23, not 5.20. The 6.30 out of Airport should be at 6.33 or 6.34.

    Tolka Vale is even worse. It's obvious it was done for the F1… the first F2 should be a 5.12, not a 5.05; the first F3 a 4.45, not 4.35.

    The worst thing is that NTA/DB will eventually revise these timings and update them silently, without neither a notice nor a reprint of the stop timetables, rendering them a pile of decorative paper and not actual information worth its money in ink.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,292 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Well it is a more a case of DB clearing up the NTA created mess. And the NTA of course don’t like ANY bad news.

    The pdf schedule formats that are on the DB website for their BusConnected routes come from the NTA and not DB.

    You have to understand that there are some political dynamics at play here deriving from DB being told that they are only the operator.

    I totally agree with you about how the schedules should be drawn up - that was my original point.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 997 ✭✭✭alentejo


    I wonder if they will get rid of parking on Stephens Green south and run a bus lane!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,638 ✭✭✭VG31


    The 23 and 24 weekday timings are fine but it's like they didn't bother at all for the weekend.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,292 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    No they aren’t all right during the week.

    Look at it on bustimes.org

    They both have totally unnecessary extra time added to the schedule inbound approaching stop 181 to make them leave that Cremore Avenue stop at equal intervals while also leaving their respective termini at nicely rounded departure times. Some of them have up to 8 mins added.

    The result is that buses will either leave the termini up to 5 mins late or be sitting around at stops as drivers try to recover the schedule.

    Absolutely crazy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 421 ✭✭TranslatorPS


    Of course there are going to be politics involved, after all this is DB, a company that runs on union agreements and not fuel! ;)

    They have now had 16 years to get used to it though. I know what DB can be like internally, it's nothing new to me, but it doesn't mean that I can't be critical of it… ;)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,292 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I don't think that you are getting my point.

    I am not referring to internal DB politics - sure they aren’t ideal, but let’s be honest the union agreements there nowadays are light years more flexible than what was there before. Compared to when I started getting interested in schedules almost forty years ago, it’s far simpler to change things now.

    No, my point is that the vast majority of the problems nowadays are generally NTA caused, rather than DB internal problems - there are some particularly pig headed individuals at the top there who think they know best and are not for changing.

    This nonsense that we are talking about here is NTA driven.

    You’ve only got to look at the omertà of silence that comes from the NTA when things don’t work.

    I suspect that you’ve got to a point where some of the time the operating companies just don’t bother arguing with them.

    Don’t get me wrong, they have done an awful lot of good things and generally changed things for the better.

    But the culture at the top needs to change and quickly - the new NTA CEO hopefully will make that happen.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 987 ✭✭✭whosedaddy?


    The 24 route is odd..

    They've built a new stop 8255 at Willow Park Crescent for 24 southbound a few month back.

    But there is no equivalent northbound stop, so there is a huge distance between Stop 163, Ferndale Av and Stop 134 Grove Road.

    Hopefully they'll build the missing stop soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,292 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    This is another mess.

    They are removing the 9 and instead of making it easy for people who are now going to have to either use the 19, 24, or the N4 (and change), they are creating huge gaps in stops.

    The whole point of BusConnects was that changing should be seamless.

    With the 24 there is a 1.1 km gap in northbound stops at the location you describe and a 750m gap southbound.

    No stops at the junction with Glasnevin Avenue is bonkers (where alternatives to the two stops on the 9 should be provided).

    Also no effective replacement on the 19 for inbound stop 143 on the 9 - only another 750m gap in stops - the 19 needs an inbound stop near “The Autobahn”.

    It’s 100% a classic example of how to frustrate customers who are being forced to change their journey patterns.

    It’s far from alone - there are other examples of this elsewhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56 ✭✭Arhanedus


    The situation with the buses having to wait for 3-10 minutes at the points where the routes enter the shared section will definitely cause the exact same mess we had on the E spine back in January. The E1 southbound had to wait up to 12 minutes at Ballymun, just after departing, which caused utter chaos for figuring out when the bus would come to DCU as all of them were tracking as "10 minutes early"…

    Also as another poster mentioned, they seemed to not even bother with the weekend this time - the 23 and 24 have a clean 10-minute frequency during the weekdays (even if it involves a wait at the shared section), but then on Saturdays and Sundays the 23 leaves just 3-6 minutes after the 24, leaving a 15/25 minute gap in service after it.
    The F spine southbound seems to be a mess on all days of the week.

    Unfortunately I don't expect them to fix this anytime soon. While the 10-minute waits will most likely be removed within the first few days as everyone will complain about the mess it causes, the E1 and E2 still travel southbound at the exact same time, although it's not as bad there because at least the routes still operate every 8-10 minutes each. But I wouldn't be surprised if they don't fix it here either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56 ✭✭Arhanedus


    In other news, the 73 timetable and map is now also available on bustimes:



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,292 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    There is yet another 1km gap in stops northbound on the 73, but this time it is in the city centre, between stop 1480 at the western end of Ormond Quay and stop 297 on Eden Quay, the latter being used by the 14 and Dublin Express and frankly is not suitable for more routes.

    No stop at all on Bachelors Walk.

    These guys really have not got a scooby doo about this. It's frankly disgraceful.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 306 ✭✭DaBluBoi


    Strange as to why they couldn't just utilise some of the 83's and 26's Quay stops there



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 223 ✭✭Fizzy Duck


    There is a big gap on the 73 between Aston Quay and Wood Quay westbound (currently the 123 has 4 stops along its equivalent section). Same issue exists Eastbound.

    Regarding the gaps on the 24, I'd assume residents resisted bus stops outside theee houses cknsidering where the new bus stops were placed and that the area never had a bus service before.

    I work in Harristown (DB) and live on Glasanaon Road the 23 is a downgrade for me. Going from a direct service to 2 buses. I understand some areas win and some lose but sirely it made sense to retain the existing 83 links to Horizon and Harristown. Perhaps a way around the 23/24 scheduling issue would be to extend the 23 to the Airport. I did email local councillors/TD's but got few responses. They were very active last year to resolve the issues on the 19, I wonder why? 🤣

    I submitted responses to the consultations in 2018/9 when I lived in Coolock.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,292 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    If that was the problem with the stops, then I would suggest that the 24 should have stayed on Beneavin Road and either doglegged back to Willow Park Road or just used Grove Road / Grove Park Road where there are stops.

    The scheduling issue is across the F-Spine too so it’s a much bigger problem.

    I don’t see extending the 23 being viable for now given the driver recruitment issues tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,327 ✭✭✭Daith


    I'm a bit skeptical of the F3 timings in Finglas. McKee Ave, Finglas Village and Tolka Valley can be a pain at peak commute times but we shall see.

    Of course anyone getting the bus in Finglas Village to City centre would be better getting the F2 at Mellowes Road or along Finglas Main St



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭oneilla


    Does anyone know where to pick up a printed physical copy of the F Spine booklet?

    Post edited by oneilla on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 191 ✭✭DUBLINBUSGUY


    The NTA offices or from a TFI rep at bus stops on the 19th.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,292 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Try the Dublin Bus offices on O’Connell Street



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 223 ✭✭Fizzy Duck


    22463.jpg

    On the bus stop at Steevens Lane westbound. You'd think they would proof read these things before printing and displaying them. The 720/O is not in operation yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 transfer90


    Local residents have been told by letter that inbound and outbound no. 24 bus stops are due to be built next week on Beneavin Drive near the Glasnevin Avenue roundabout.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,292 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Ah that’s good news - just frustrating that they aren’t on the timetables or the journey planner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,292 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Also - they just cannot get these maps right.

    They slavishly do them in numerical order rather than grouping routes together by where they go.

    Hence the G1 and G2 which take exactly the same route to Ballyfermot are shown separately.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 223 ✭✭Fizzy Duck


    Even the 13/G1 share the route till Inchicore but they pick every 2nd bus stop to avoid showing this detail.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,522 ✭✭✭StreetLight


    Another small point: The 13 is still a Dublin Bus route . I would have expected that to be printed in the Dublin Bus timetable format rather than the NTA one.

    The inclusion of test route 720 is downright bizarre.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 987 ✭✭✭whosedaddy?


    Good to hear they are not done building stops. Maybe they’ll put an outbound stop at willow park crescent as well.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 655 ✭✭✭noelfirl


    'Towards Parkgate Street'. A hint I think as to where the O's actual 'anti-clockwise' terminus is likely to be, for those who keep wondering about when some of the perceived necessary infrastructure changes are going to happen.



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