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DART+ (DART Expansion)

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Comments

  • #12332
    Bsharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 259 ✭✭Bsharp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123757013#Comment_123757013

    there isn't abundant resources available to the Department of Transport, can't even guarantee all of DART+ will be funded never mind any other heavy rail investment.



  • #12333
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123757013#Comment_123757013

    I obviously don't have numbers, but the AIRR looked into it and even they said it would be very expensive and not justifiable, for the AIRR:

    The Review has considered interventions to enable faster and more frequent journeys between Rosslare Europort and
    Dublin, including adding passing loops, tunnelling through Bray Head, developing a new railway along the M11 corridor, and building a new line for DART services along the N11 corridor. A more direct route between Cork and Waterford was also considered but found to be impractical due to the geography of this corridor.

    Many of these solutions would be very costly and are unlikely to be justifiable as most railways in this region would not be
    expected to support more than one or two trains per hour in each direction. It appears that the best way forward for
    boosting connectivity in the South East of Ireland in the shorter term is to introduce an hourly shuttle service between
    Wexford and Greystones, with DART services to be extended to Wicklow.

    This is from the experts in this area and generally the people most positively predisposed to rail.

    The reality is the ideas being proposed here simply aren't part of either the National Development Plan or the AIRR. While I won't say it will never happen, it certainly isn't going to happen in the next 30 years or so.



  • #12334
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123757034#Comment_123757034

    Hell they haven't even signed off on replacing the existing DART fleet even though it is more then 40 years old!



  • #12335
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,477 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Can we get a "everything remotely DART+ related but isn't actually DART+" thread?



  • #12336
    spillit67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭spillit67


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123756954#Comment_123756954

    Perhaps, but then watch the growth move to Wexford. Allowing more homes in Dublin is the actual answer.



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  • #12337
    spillit67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭spillit67


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123757051#Comment_123757051

    In fairness DART+ Coastal South is up in the air, hence the discussion.



  • #12338
    Crakepottle?
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 94 ✭✭Crakepottle?


    Does anyone know what is happening with Dart south west? Thanks



  • #12339
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,438 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Fully approved, tenders issued



  • #12340
    KrisW1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,816 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Might be a good place to provide a recap:

    DART+ Coastal North: Approved in full, 2025-08-21 (13 months in planning process)
    DART+ Southwest: Approved in full, 2024-11-22 (20 months in planning process)
    DART+ West: Approved without depot, 2024-07-31 (24 months in planning process)
    DART+ Fleet: New stock in testing, awaiting cabinet approval to order replacements for 8100s.

    DART+ Coastal South: Effectively suspended. No design, no RO applied for.

    The new depot location for West is to be submitted for approval later, but it’s claimed that it won’t delay the delivery of DART+ West.

    (I wouldn’t read too much into the reducing times in planning, DART+West was the most complex project with the most re-construction needed, Coastal North had the least)



  • #12341
    loyatemu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,900 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Coastal South: they do appear to be proceeding with the Bray/Greystones/Wicklow bits - Dart to Wicklow Town has been confirmed (albeit with the date pushed back to 2030) and the design for Greystones has appeared in a couple of presentations.

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  • #12342
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,438 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    South coastal has been split in two


    Bray - Wicklow there are plans for works at Bray, some double tracking near Greystones and the charging gear and related upgrades at Wicklow and some minor works at Kilcoole


    A lot of this can go through normal planning channels but the twin tracking bit likely needs a RO unless the original act which empowered construction had provision for 2 tracks


    work



  • #12343
    pnott
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 184 ✭✭pnott


    I would be surprised if coastal south happens especially any big infrastructure works such as double track from Bray Head to Greystones/Wicklow. Best we can hope for is new trains really. From what I have heard from my source in the NTA there is very little cash for any big stuff. NTA were preparing to launch weekend services through the Phoenix Park Tunnel, last minute the Minister rang them to say scrap it no money.



  • #12344
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,412 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    A preferred option for DART+ Coastal South is ready. Public consultation this year.

    As mentioned before, it has been split into two. It makes sense. These large railway orders are too risky. Making the very achievable passing loops near Bray Head dependent on the smooth removal of level crossings in Sandymount was always a bad idea and I'm glad they've come to their senses. Bundling everything into one project causes more issues than it solves.

    Look at Cork. They're actually building things. Just think, they could have bundled it all into one big project called CART+ and still be doing consultations now.



  • #12345
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,109 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    If DART+ Coastal South is being split into two projects; which part of it will include the construction of the additional turnback platform at Dún Laoghaire?



  • #12346
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,438 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    No turnback at DL beyond the existing provision



  • #12347
    loyatemu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,900 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123761292#Comment_123761292

    there were 2 turnbacks up until quite recently (10 years?), presumably they decided they didn't need a second one.

    A preferred option for DART+ Coastal South is ready. Public consultation this year.

    we've been hearing the consultation is imminent for about 2 years.

    Put your money where yer mouth is... Subscribe and Save Boards!

    https://subscriptions.boards.ie/



  • #12348
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123761213#Comment_123761213

    It makes perfect sense to me and I think it is a very good approach to large projects like this.

    I was already very happy that DART+ was broken down into separate N/W/SW/S projects and Railway orders and it really does make a lot of sense to break the Coastal South project into two further projects/RO.

    The Dublin to Bray section is going to unfortunately be very contentious with certain powerful elements of the public and will be a tough battle! The Bray south section should be relatively uncontentious with the public, no point risking that project with the battle that the Northern half will be.

    I'm very happy that they have taken the same approach with BusConnects, you have an overall vision on the end goal, but break it up into "smaller", easier to digest projects.

    It is a pity you can't do the same with Metrolink, but I do think they have done everything possible to derisk it too.



  • #12349
    LastCall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28 ✭LastCall


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123761256#Comment_123761256

    They wouldn't need PP for a turnback anyway.



  • #12350
    KrisW1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,816 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123761213#Comment_123761213

    The difference is that the Cork commuter railway doesn’t cut through wealthy suburbia and its track upgrade didn’t need major road bridges to be re-built.

    Also, the Cork project has not reached the point where electrification is being requested - that request goes in next year. When that RO goes in, trust me there will be people who will complain about how the track overhead wires will impinge on their enjoyment of the view of the mud-flats of the Lee estuary, the N25, Irish Distillers’ yards, or whatever. It’s likely that this will be a 25 kV AC electrification because the northern part of the CACR is shared with the main Cork-Dublin intercity route, so there will be only a couple of substations for the whole network.



  • #12351
    Bsharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 259 ✭✭Bsharp


    I think the split will be helpful from funding perspective as money comes in drips and drabs.



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