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Could Fine Gael be pushed to the right?

  • 19-08-2025 10:36AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭


    There have been numerous threads on Boards in recent years about the need for a centre right political party to challenge the entrenched centre left consensus politics in this country.

    Such a party would have as it’s main policy objectives:

    • Tackling crime – lack of prison spaces and ludicrously lenient sentencing;
    • An end to the de facto unlimited immigration farce;
    • Welfare reform to end the “welfare lifestyle” mentality which sees perfectly able bodied people refusing to work because welfare pays better.

    While both Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are now making all the right noises on both crime and immigration, only time will tell if they’re serious about tackling the issues around both. Welfare reform isn’t even on the political agenda now unless you count Paschal Donoghue’s attempt to flag that the days of once off relief for energy bills etc. is over.

    Most people on Boards who have taken part in debates on the need for a new party agree that getting a new party off the ground in Ireland is extremely difficult if not impossible. Others have claimed that the lack of substantial votes for the far right parties in the last election “proves” that the Irish voter has no appetite for tougher crime and immigration policies. I don’t agree with this view for a second. I believe that if a respectable, credible, moderate centre right party emerged – i.e. not one dominated by overt knuckle dragging racists- it would have a degree of support which would surprise many.

    However, if we accept that getting a new party off the ground is a non-runner, what then can we say about the options for influencing policy in the existing parties? Fine Gael would seem to me to be the most likely party for anyone who considers themselves to be on the centre right politically. However, as we know, the current FG party has contributed just as much to the crime, immigration and endless welfare culture as every other mainstream party and are now effectively a centre left party.

    In the late 70’s and early 80’s, a major issue in British politics was the attempts by a hard core of militant Labour activists to steer the Labour Party to adopt hard left policies. The Militant Tendency, as they were known, ultimately failed in this project but for many years they wielded serious influence within the party. I was in my mid 20’s during that period and have always been fascinated by the events of that time.

    My purpose in posting this thread is to initiate a discussion of whether or not it would be possible for a cadre of dedicated centre right idealogues, activists and others who wish to see change along the lines discussed above, to join the Fine Gael party at local volunteer level and then begin to push for the adoption of centre right policies within the party in a similar fashion?

    Obviously, this isn’t something that would happen overnight, just as transforming Ireland into a crime ridden welfare paradise didn’t happen overnight – it would take years, maybe a decade or more. I’d be interested in hearing views on this, particularly from any Boardsies with actual experience of being a member of a political party and trying to influence policy.

    Post edited by Everlong1 on


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    bump



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭z80CPU
    Darth Randomer


    No.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,980 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil are the centre-right. Adding another party would just fragment that vote further though I say that living in a country that uses FPTP.

    Boards is not a representative sample of the Irish electorate. I doubt more than 5% of people under 25 even know it exists. The average Irish person does not spend vast amounts of time crapping out the same tedious victim fantasies and deranged drivel about refugees and immigration. They may want less immigration but they're otherwise happy with how things are. That's why FF and FG keep getting in.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    It's that kind of sparkling wit I'll miss the most if Boards ever closes down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    FG haven't been centre right for a long time, if they ever were. FF have never had any political ideology other than "get power by promising everything to everyone. Keep power by doing the same, even if it means bankrupting the country by throwing money at everyone to buy votes."

    Whatever about immigration, do you really think most people are happy with the level of crime in the country? And please don't start with the tedious statistics purporting to show that we're the safest country in the world. Just because 100 people weren't murdered before you had your breakfast this morning doesn't mean the country is a Utopia for law and order.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,980 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    By Irish standards they are. If you go by the USA where the right wing part is now a cult or the UK where they spent half a decade virtue-signalling and engaging in performative racism the FF and FG are not right wing. I stand by my characterisation of both parties as centre-right.

    Ireland is a safe country. If you don't want facts then there's no discussion. You can believe whatever you want and erect as many strawmen as you want. It doesn't change the facts.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    Go down to Temple Bar and ask the local businessmen there how safe Ireland is. If you want to live in denial about the crime situation in the country, feel free to do so. I started this thread for the people who have to live in the real world.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,980 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    So facts are invalid but cheap comments and insults are fine. I think that continuing this is pointless.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,482 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    'Don't be using statistics or facts in my thread or I'll be taking my ball and going home'



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,922 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    In fairness,

     the local businessmen

    in Temple Bar bear a lot of responsibility for what a once fabulous part of the city has become. A tawdry tourist trap full of greed tbh. That it attracts more crime than other areas is no surprise.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,468 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    By a degree of Irish colloquialism they are, but I'm not sure the spectrum even works well in Ireland.

    The further "left" you go the more virulently they reject the most effective wealth taxes in existence in property taxes. Funding local services from them should be the easiest left-wing position going. FG's rhetoric can swing to the right, but they also oversee a pretty large welfare state, moderately high taxation with exceptionally low (to zero) taxation on low earners and fairly culturally progressive policies these days. They are centrist liberal more than anything else. FF are more centrist populist.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    They all could be pushed anywhere as long as they think that 'where' will win them elections. And ideally keep the money coming. The first one will trump the latter but on the whole thats about it IMO.

    Once you disregard the whole diversity and inclusion smokescreen they are not all that left as it is. (But theyre not the worst to be fair)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,631 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    We had a centre right party and they got destroyed by their involvement in government with Fianna Fail: the PDs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    That was a very different Ireland in fairness. The PD's main raison d'etre was to be pro-business, pro-market etc. Immigration was non - existent and crime wasn't an issue that affected most people (there was an organised crime fuelled heroin epidemic but most people weren't touched by that, unlike now when anyone from any background can be assaulted by a mob of feral teenage thugs for no reason.)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    No. It just happens to be a good microcosm of what's going on country wide. But sure feel free to pretend we don't have a crime issue in the country like plenty of other posters. The scumbags strolling around with 150 plus convictions will be delighted to hear that no one is particularly interested in doing anything about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,581 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    as others have stated, ffg have a traditional base in the right as it is, with fg more so to the right than ff, what you mean is, you d like a more far right party, theres definitely a market for it in ireland, as theres many moving more so towards more authoritarian views, and would like such a society, but if we did create such, they probably wouldnt like it all that much, i.e. its a fantasy of some, but it would actually be a nightmare in reality!

    such folks seem to think incarcerating more and more, would miraculously reduce crime, although theres virtually no evidence anywhere in the world of such, none at all, i.e. more fantasy land stuff! one of the potential better ways of approaching crime is to actually try prevent it in the first place, but noting, crime will always exist in our societies, no matter what we do, or dont do. crime is generally the outcome of long term unmet needs of criminals, most have undiagnosed dsm based disorders, including developmental disorders, learning disabilities, behavioral problems, mental health issues, trauma, etc etc, many of which are in fact detectable at and early age, and some what treatable. early detection and treatment is by far the best approach in preventing later escalations into crime, but thankfully ireland is well onto of such issues, preventing as many kids from going untreated, with little or no waiting lists, so, go us! oh yea, precarious housing is also linked to crime, so again, go us!

    ireland actually doesnt have an unlimited immigration policy, there actually is a process already in place, but with growing anti-immigration sentiments, less are definitely going to be given access, which means we must prepare for a slowing economy, partly due to this, as many immigrants work in critical sectors such as health care etc, and the fact we re also experiencing an aging demographics, growing old is gonna be some fun in future ireland!

    many, possible most long term unemployed actually struggle with complex psychological issues, similar or the same as most criminals, surprise surprise, many long term unemployed are also involved in crime, but again, thankfully we re well onto of these issues now, and provide adequate health care to all such folks, so at least we ll have a crime and long term unemployment free ireland pretty soon!

    you ll also find many individuals that have strong right leaning thinking have serious empathy and intellectual problems, being simply unable to realise these social complexities, and whats actually required to try address them, ive also found many have had very complex, even traumatic childhoods, resulting in such thinking, which also tends to be highly dichotomous, and lacking in empathy!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    This thread has nothing to do with Fine Gael or even politics, you just want to rant about crime and immigration.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,305 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    As a Fine Gael member, please pish off and go sell crazy some place else.

    If you want to start Reform Ireland, or join up with some of the other clowns who bleat on about immigrants being the cause of everything, best of luck. But its been tried, and failed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    Nowhere in my posts will you find me blaming immigrants for everything, but feel free to exagerate all you want. It's a pity because you could actually contribute a lot to this discussion. But then maybe you're one of the Fine Gaelers who's pefectly happy to ignore our crime and immigration problems, which might explain a lot. I suppose you think Helen McEntee was a great Minister for Justice?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    Ah yes, the old "it's not the poor criminal's fault, it's society's fault." If you actually believe that nonsense then you're part of the problem. We've tried the "hug a thug" approach. It failed. As far as "fantasies" about incarcerating more and more are concerned, at the moment you have to actually commit murder in this country to be incarcerated. Rapists and other violent thugs are walking the streets free and easy becasue the prisons are full, or because cretins like Martin Nolan are handing out suspended sentences like confetti at a wedding. Immigration? Yes of course we have an "official" immigration policy, which gives the Government the excuse of saying that there's no such thing as unlimited immigration. In practice, as the dogs in the street can tell you, anyone can get off a plane having conveniently "lost" their passport while on board, declare that they're seeking asylum, and then claim welfare for the next ten years while "the process" grinds on. De facto unlimited immigration. With all the resulting consequences for housing, health, and other public services. Oh, and law and order. But of course I can't mention that because then I'm a far right loon, yeah?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,354 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    But of course I can't mention that because then I'm a far right loon, yeah?

    You definitely sound that way from an Irish perspective anyway…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    Yeah because nothing screams "NAZI" more than being concerned about overstretched public services and crime. Only in Ireland.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,980 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    How does posting nonsense on this website improve the situation?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,461 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    ignore our crime and immigration problems

    Exactly as I said, nothing to do with politics at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    The Boards version of "when did you stop beating your wife".



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,980 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    So you're just virtue-signalling then. Not interested in actually doing anything to make things better.

    Thanks for confirming.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,354 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    I never said Nazi, I said that from an Irish point of view the way you are posting is far right. Country-specific.

    Your views in USA would be to the centre sure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    But that says a lot about Irish politics doesn't it? That simple common sense comcerns about these issues is immediately demonised as "far right". Which is a term that's rapidly losing all meaning now in this country. It's being used now as a stick to beat anyone daring to ask questions, no matter how innocuous, about social issues.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    So you don't believe that Fine Gael have any responsiblity for addressing our immigration and crime issues. Righty-o. Maybe you just joined FG as a hobby was it? To make new friends and maybe get the occasional selfie with the party hierarchy to post on Facebook and impress your mates?



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