Could Fine Gael be pushed to the right?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123808653#Comment_123808653

Using a term like "the woke consensus" immediately removes any attempt at seriousness.

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123808736#Comment_123808736

I don't go into that cesspit of a thread, tried it once a good while ago and they amount of hate, bile and conspiratorial nonsense was shocking.

It was constant bans, (both sides of the debate) personal abuse, re-reg trolls.

It just seems like there isn't the will for a party to be pushed further to the right.

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123808653#Comment_123808653

I think anyone , in their opening post, that describes Ireland as you did "Ireland into a crime ridden welfare paradise didn’t happen overnight" is clearly of the very far right. To then suggest that you might, with the support of like minded people, infiltrate FG and steer that party to the far right, perhaps emulating Duffy and his links with Cumann na nGaedheal , sets alarm bells ringing for most politically aware adults.

We certainly need to tackle crime. It is about a month since an Indian man was attacked in broad daylight in Dublin ( Kilnamanagh, I think) and there has bee no arrests since. No arrests yet in the disgraceful attacks on the family of the Taoiseach.

On the welfare state, perhaps we need to consider, with the real possibility of a downturn in our economy, why we should be prepared to hand out large sums of money to the hospitality sector via a VAT cut.

This country needs immigrant. Without a regular supply of skill workers from abroad we would need to close a significant number of the cafes' , hotels and restaurant around the country. We would also need to close about half of our hospitals. As an aside, this country never had it so good when we had significant immigration after the turn of the century. We need to get back to encouraging that migration again.

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123808890#Comment_123808890

Yet another person confusing "far right" with moderate conservative politics. At least you do seem to recognise that crime and welfare need reform. As far as immigration is concerned, all I'm asking for is the same system that those well known fascist authoritarian countries like Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States have: a system which vets wannabe immigrants and only allows those with skills the country needs in. The idea that we need hundreds of thousands of immigrants to keep the local Starbucks open is ludicrous. In fact one of the reasons we have so many able bodied people on welfare is because those traditional low paying jobs are all taken by immigrants. Here's a radical idea which will also no doubt be dismissed as neo - fascist thinking. How about we refuse to pay unemployment benefit to any native Irish youngster who's able bodied enough to work in a service industry but refuses to do so because welfare pays the same or better?

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123808345#Comment_123808345

What does "far more even" mean?

Our LPT creates nothing, it's to all intents and purposes non-existent, property owners are making out like bandits with capital appreciation even if they're not renting the property out.

Bizarre that we have so-called left wing parties which virulently oppose the nearest thing we have to a wealth tax.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123808634#Comment_123808634

Well they're clearly not "seeking" too hard, are they?

The problem is that when you punish the parents, the children suffer.

I don't know what the solution is, but it's not to raise another generation of kids in poverty who will grow up to have kids in poverty themselves

Idbatterim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123809378#Comment_123809378

Well we are certainly in agreement on this ! So of thers effectively no property tax, low paid workers contribute next to nothing in income taxes. Both of these are totally at odds with properly run European peers... so who pays for the shot show? Blatantly kud to high earners are carrying far too much of the burden and the tac haven, but obviously I couldn't care less what pittance, companies with more money than god, propping up this banana Republic pay... not enough any way. If the tax haven status is ever properly tackled, amd funds massively shrank. It would be comedy seeing how those wasters would deal with it

..

Idbatterim

Yeah, but you throw more money at them and remove it from other people's pockets that are actually working and struggling, is that the solution?

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123809079#Comment_123809079

"How about we refuse to pay unemployment benefit to any native Irish youngster who's able bodied enough to work in a service industry but refuses to do so because welfare pays the same or better? "

So now the target is 'Irish youngsters.'

Pay people a proper wage and you will have no problem getting workers. Any employer paying wages similar to welfare rates is not running a business they are running a voluntary organisation and the workers are basically volunteering their time to profit the boss.

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123809929#Comment_123809929

Only because welfare rates in Ireland are so generous and long lasting.

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123810032#Comment_123810032

Any youngster (whatever age this is meant to be) working over 17 hours a week on minimum wage would earn more than they would on the dole, so it's exactly that generous and that's if they're living alone (highly unlikely). More than likely on €153 a week, only have to work 11 hours to earn more.

Idbatterim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123810042#Comment_123810042

So you're working 17 hours for free effectively... the dole is way lower in UK, I think reduced rates for younger people. Going to see if I lcan get the figures...

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123810102#Comment_123810102

Everyone is essentially working for free when compared to the dole, the amount of time just changes, someone on 40k works about 7 hours for free using this logic.

I know myself I'd much rather work 35 hours a week earning double the dole, than not work. Statistics show that this is the case for the majority, it's only a tiny % that choose not to work.

There are reduced rates here for younger people as well under 25 is less than over 25 (unless living alone).

Idbatterim

If you can live comfortably off e250 a week, why would you work ? You can spin it that way... I think many would see it that way ...

Idbatterim

This isn't true... if the welfare rates are high and allow you to get by relatively comfortably... then some people just won't work, period. Welfare reform here, is long overdue... of course, they don't want to touch it, with a barge pole

https://www.gov.uk/jobseekers-allowance

Up to 24 years old 72.90 pound

Over 25 is 92 pound

They are maximum rates... giving people who've never contributed orliving at home etc, that amount, is obscene! They get the same as a pensioner, while mostly freeloading off their parents , not paying towards anything. That seriously, isn't my problem...

What is implied here and supported is. That transferring this wealth from working struggling people into the pockets of others, with no job, no responsibility etc, is a good use of this hard earned money. In fact, it's a disgrace

Rocket_GD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123810359#Comment_123810359

The discussion was about "youngsters" as the OP called them, still no age range given. If you're under 25 and not living independently you only get €153 a week, not €244. I couldn't live comfortably off either of these.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123810369#Comment_123810369

Why don't you quote respond to people?

What isn't true? Are you responding to your own previous post?

I'll repeat it again Statistics show that this is the case for the majority, it's only a tiny % that choose not to work.

28,200 roughly just under 1% of people are long term unemployed, a tiny figure.

But you seem to think it's different so let's see your proof.

Seth Brundle

Mod: back on topic please!

Idbatterim

Fg won't shift, unless, a new party forms, which would take votes from fg position of supporting and encouraging, excessive welfare…no response to the UK figures linked to above, conveniently...

Zero welfare , you work... you lose your job, welfare based on what you paid in... rate starting at e100 week ( assumimg yoube worked) , if you're young and at home ...

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123811144#Comment_123811144

You can see why FG wouldn't move to the right of it meant they would be suggesting job seekers need to survive on €100 a week.

Hotblack Desiato

Fg won't shift, unless, a new party forms, which would take votes from fg position 

It's been done already and it crashed and burned spectacularly at its first contact with the electorate.

Idbatterim

https://germanfoundation.com/burgergeld-rates-in-2025-how-much-singles-couples-and-families-receive/

Jsa about half the amount in Germany, way stricter conditions on it too...

UK seems similar...

Idbatterim

You mean the one, sank by being attached to the hip by abortion? Several years ago ?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123812768#Comment_123812768

And which you tried to claim the dead corpse of would recover.

Any further right party would have to spend most of its time fighting off entryists trying to make it Renua 2. Parties in internal fights of that kind never prosper

Hotblack Desiato

That that party had a potential audience of 1/3 of the country and still failed spectacularly should tell you something

Idbatterim

No point in me posting in a thread full of ffg supporters... but I'll say my goodbyes later, with a good piece from the sunday business post...

michael-henry-mcivor

FG Heather be her name humpries spoke at a press conference today in monaghan about her bid for being president of Ireland-

With a Presbyterian upbringing she talked of attending Orange parades as a child- but would now vote for a united Ireland when the border poll came-

That is Fine Gael today-

Idbatterim

Lol! She was also talking about the housing crisis... if the establishment think, many of us are going fo listen to their frap, their lies and reward them in elections?!

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123813244#Comment_123813244

What point are you trying to make?

We shoudn't have Protestants in politics?

That Protestants can't support a united Ireland? That if they say they do, they might be lying?

Baffling

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123814692#Comment_123814692

When she moves into the Aras that'll free up a gaff 😁

michael-henry-mcivor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123816851#Comment_123816851

Heather is a Presbyterian-

Catholics and Presbyterians suffered under the brits penal laws - Protestants did not-