Could Fine Gael be pushed to the right?

BlueSkyDreams

Which party do you think will increase the 40%

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123942773#Comment_123942773

Which party that isnt in govt do you think will raise the 40% rate above 44k?

Idbatterim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123942779#Comment_123942779

Both... its insane here, just hammer mid to high incomes and pray corporation tax keeps going Like the clappers... effectively no property taxes... hammer moderate incomes and by moderate, I'd include up to 150k in that... other eu countries, you can earn several hundred k a year before paying highest income tax rate. In Ireland? You'll be on 100k and living in a block next door to the social housing , in the same development...

Idbatterim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123942785#Comment_123942785

Non obviously...they are all useless wasters in the Dail...

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123942791#Comment_123942791

There is your answer. Thats why the mid and high earners that are home owners will still vote FFG.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123942789#Comment_123942789

We need mixed housing developments and to close the wealth gap.

Without taxing the higher earners more we will have a broken society as more and more people on lower incomes are left behind.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123942773#Comment_123942773

After 44k, the marginal rate is 47% = 40% tax + 4% PRSI + 3% USC

Well, actually, 47.2% since PRSI increased.

The 52% rate starts around 70k.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123942691#Comment_123942691

There's no insinuation required - they were a single issue party and they failed horrendously.

You are basically the only person who has ever believed their back of a fag packet taxation policy, which was heavily influenced by a personal finance influencer who has since become a right wing troll.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123942614#Comment_123942614

I can't agree.

IMO what killed the PDs was FF acquiescing to their thatcherite policies and applying them. Thus, the PDs' job was done. Also the other side of the PDs - anti-republicanism regarding the 6 Cos - disappeared with the GFA.

They were superfluous long before the crash, but it is possible that they held enough compromat to ensure a place at the government table.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123942712#Comment_123942712

Today, welfare goes way beyond the dole for those who temporarily can't find a job, or are long-term unemployable. Virtually every family in the broad sense in the state is in receipt of some form welfare:

• pensions
• disability
• long-term illness
• autism

The list goes on, but I think I have mentioned enough to make my point. Barring early death, each of us will sooner or later receive a state pension; disability or long-term illness caould affect any of ustomorrow, and similarly nobody knows whose child will be autistic and require special help or facilities.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123942457#Comment_123942457

I think we'll have to agree to differ on this.

As I see it, after each of FF's booms, FG came to power (with Labour) and applied policies that encouraged huge emigration. Things could have been handled differently, and we will never know how much a different approach would have limited emigration, but the facts demonstrate that most of that emigration happened after FG came to power.

As for FF ending emigration, census figures from the 1930s, 1960s/70s and 1990s up to 2006 demonstrate lower emigration leading to an increasing population. Of course there were always people coming and going, this to an extent is human nature, and more so in Ireland where Irish communities have been long established abroad that usually provide a cushion for anyone going to Boston, London, Sydney and many other places besides.

pureza

In the above discussion,there’s a lot of glossing over Ireland needing the IMF,the EU and the UK to bail them out after the 2008 crash and thinking that the associated austerity and unemployment driven emigration then was avoidable

Pie in the sky

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123943803#Comment_123943803

Another reason we need a fiscally responsible centre right party. FG used to be better at managing the economy than FF but I think they've all but abandoned that distinction now and are just as happy to throw money at welfare and special interest groups as FF.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123943867#Comment_123943867

The electorate absolutely eviscerating their "fiscally responsible" platform in 2002 probably had something to do with it…

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123943975#Comment_123943975

And Sinn Fein almost getting into government in 2020 on the back of a promise to restore the pension age to 65…

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123943975#Comment_123943975

This is where leadership comes in. They need to be making the case that there is no magic money tree and lashing SF out of it for promising everything to everyone. Probably too much to ask of course.

a-few-good-men-you-cant-handle-the-truth.gif

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123944263#Comment_123944263

Sure I agree. But I remember that 2002 campaign and that was exactly FG's message. They warned of an overheating economy and wanted to introduce more fiscal responsibility. FF instead basically promised to keep the good times rolling and don't listen to those debbie downers and FG were eviscerated in the election. We get exactly what we deserve ultimately.

Idbatterim

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/ireland-ranked-among-worst-countries-for-income-tax-burden-on-workers/a1434258389.html

There is a magic money tree. Corporation tax and mod to high earners. Ireland is a total outlier in taxation, it seems the rest of you, are totally unaware as to his other countries collect tax. Were a basket case... Hitting low income with a marginal rate thats insane. All around me in a South dublin suburb, vacant houses. I wonder if effectively the token gesture lpt has anything to do with that...

Essentially free motor tax now on all cars, including new diesel filth...

Idbatterim

Do you not read nearly every article in any paper independent, IT, SBP and the insanity of the current spending? Ffg talking of economic prudence, is beyond irony...

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123942691#Comment_123942691

Everybody knew that Renua's only reason for existing was one single issue. The more they tried to deny it, the more they failed to convince anyone.

Then after Creighton and all the ex-FG TDs lost their seats, the religious right moved in in a big way. Thankfully failed to get any traction from there but they're trying again with Aontu which is definitely moving hard to the right

Idbatterim

Ffg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123945882#Comment_123945882

Ffg seem to be a single issue party also. ... run the country into the ground...

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123943543#Comment_123943543

Ah here we go, "thatcherite". Can you name any of their "thatcherite" policies please?

Was it introducing the minimum wage, for instance?

Or interfering in the free market to ban the sale of smoky coal?

Or opposing having beds in public hospitals being blocked by private patients?

What you disingenuously describe as "anti-republicanism" was opposition to (yet another euphemism) "physical force republicanism" i.e. terrorism. FF played both sides of that game for long enough until they finally copped on

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123943586#Comment_123943586

The fact is that every time FG entered government up until and including 2011 was to fix up FF's mess. And every time they succeeded but were then (up until 2016) turfed out by FF promises to let the good times roll and hang the consequences. 1977 manifesto a case in point. We were paying heavily for that one for nearly 20 years and the damaging effects of it on local government are still felt today.

WealthyB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123945882#Comment_123945882

Renua did have the flat tax proposal of 25% and the proposal to penalise the parents of repeat offenders before the Childrens Court.. But I agree they were stuck with the optics that they were a single issue party. It also didn't help that Creighton had made a powerful enemy who happened to own a network of newspapers, I remember the Indo dragging up a (Resolved IIRC) SIPO issue around Legal Fees and made it the front page for 3 days in the lead up to the 2016 election, while all the time also promoting direct rival for Lucinda's seat, Kate O'Connell.