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Cross-border review of rail network officially launched

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Agreed but it might be still good to rank/prioritise and possibly tentatively date projects like "rail to Shannon". Even if just so that everyone can clearly see what's where on the priority list.

    What we currently have is a bit of a mish-mash where some "no-hope" projects have happily made the AIRR and some places (Carrigaline?) barely get a mention. Sligo-Letterkenny is off the list because it's bad for the environment and wouldn't serve many people but the new North Midlands route is fine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    The broad gauge railway never went further north than Sligo, and the Donegal narrow-gauge railways never went further south than Bundoran (here’s a nice map of that network: Interactive Donegal Railway Map | Donegal Railway Museum ), so while it might be theoretically possible to reinstate something on the Donegal side, there’s still a big gap.

    The only realistic way of crossing the gap between the two is alongside the N15, because the rest is the Dartry Mountains, otherwise known as Yeats’ Country.

    Even if you could find a way, you’d also have to get a railway from one side of Sligo to the other, which would be really hard to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,772 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    There was a plan (Parliamentary approval etc all in place I think), which I was only made aware of by someone on here a few months ago really, for a Sligo to Bundoran broad-gauge line, meeting the Enniskillen to Bundoran broad-gauge line there.

    The plan was a high-level bridge over the Garrovogue/Sligo Port, going from somewhere along the Sligo Quay spur alignment.

    That sounds painfully expensive even back then, and it would also create issues actually serving Sligo station.

    It would still have done nothing for the other huge issue - the Donegal system being narrow gauge; and never actually going south of Ballyshannon. The broad gauge line would have brought you to Ballyshannon, but on the wrong side of the Erne!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Ah, I thought all of the Donegal railways were narrow-gauge. Clearly not. Still, it’s a really nasty territory for building anything in, especially a railway that needs nice flat ways with no sharp bends.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,772 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    A bunch of the ones in the East were first built broad and later converted to narrow; but nothing dealing with all of the difficult bits of a putative Sligo-Letterkenny link.

    Any railway service to Donegal will need to be an entirely new alignment Letterkenny to Derry service and that's it. Finish the other road proposals and reinforce bus links to Sligo, Letterkenny and Carrickfinn.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Thanks for taking the time to answer my crayoning.

    Your point about the length of the Mk4/Enterprise replacement and possibility of it being too long for Glasnevin and SD stations is certainly possible. It kind of brings up a good point. Are IR better just focusing on making the best use they can of the existing stations like Heuston, new trains, electrified, faster, higher frequency and perhaps even longer/higher capacity per train or instead try and do things like use this PPT connection, but "shorter" trains etc.

    I think many of these complaints will largely melt away once DART+ and Metrolink are in place. So perhaps just better to wait until they are in place and see how the transfers work out before speculating too much on the more distant future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    That's all fine, and I want to make it clear I am NOT pushing for a Sligo-Letterkenny connection, I was just trying to say that the AIRR mostly fed back current growth patterns into their model, rather than strongly focusing on desirable future growth models. They could have pushed for the NM20 rail link but we all understand why it will not go ahead.

    So there is no real "buildup of counterbalance to Dublin" within the AIRR. Dublin remains as the hub. And in that scenario I prefer not to cross the city centre just to cross the country. Swapping trains is fine. Swapping modes - not as good. I say that as someone who's done it a couple of times (and have done it in London too). It just eats time.

    It's easier for me to meet Belfast customers in Amsterdam at the moment, and that's just a shame.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 439 ✭✭PlatformNine


    What we currently have is a bit of a mish-mash where some "no-hope" projects have happily made the AIRR and some places (Carrigaline?) barely get a mention.

    Just want to add some clarification to this. Many of the towns over 10K that aren't covered in the review were left out because they need a commuter service and that unfortunately falls out of the scope of AISRR which is for IC and regional connections. Carrigaline one of the best example of that in the review given its size, being the largest town in the ROI with no active project or reccomendation under AISRR. Ashbourne and Tramore are the same. Additionally Dunshaughlin/Ratoath is shown in the AISRR as out-of-scope, but it will potentially be connected by the Navan line depending on the alignment chosen.

    The real stand out from all of this is Dungarvan which isn't even mentioned in the review, and I believe is the only town in the ROI over 10K and is in the scope of AISRR but has no reccomendation. The review does mention that a more direct Waterford-Cork line isn't feasible, which does somewhat imply that Dungarvan-Waterford isn't feasible. However because it doesn't even mention the town's name I am not 100% convinced they considered a line just between Waterford and Dungarvan. That said I would have been surprised if they found the line to be feasible, but considering it is in the scope of the review I believe they should have explicitly stated if it wasn't feasible like they did with Enniskillen and Cookstown (Downpatrick was also barely mentioned).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Yep I think we're basically on the same page here. I'd have preferred to have Dungarvan on the list, stating that it's at the lowest priority. Same with Carrigaline and Sligo-Lettterkenny etc.

    The only AIRR comment on Carrigaline is highly questionable. There is no real possibility that a Mahon or Ballincollig tram line could extend to Cork Airport or Carrigaline. A new tram network serving North-South MIGHT. A commuter rail network MIGHT. But mentioning Carrigaline in the same breath as the Mahon line is just nonsense.

    But anyway that's only a small issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 439 ✭✭PlatformNine


    Honestly I wouldn't think too much about what it said about Carrigaline, what was said feels more like a throw-away line trying to send the message that "Carrigaline doesn't fall within the scope of this review." Because it just isn't in the scope of the review, again it needs a commuter connection not a regional/IC connection. It isn't even a case of priority in its case, the scope of the AISRR would have had to change for them to consider it. It also would have added much more work as they would then need to consider connections for Ashbourne, Ratoath, Tramore, etc as well.

    It does bring up a bigger problem and my main gripe with the review, that I think it is inconsistent in how it treats commuter networks along side its suggestions. Part of that is of course because it is just focused on the IC and regional networks, but also at the same time I think its reccomendations for DU and Limerick commuter rail feel as though they didn't really consider how the commuter networks would work best.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 479 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    Could this project if implemented, form part of the proposed west Dublin rail freight depot ? It would seem an obvious tie-in ? I’d be surprised if IE had not modelled out some form of plan.



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