Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Clarkson was a 50/50 call with Joe Hayes ultimately.

It's very interesting looking at their seasons side by side because it does show that they're essentially neck and neck in many facets.

• Same age (same U20s year)
• Breakout season - both making international debuts
• Clarkson 8 international caps - 3 starts
• Heyes 7 international caps - 2 starts
• Both started their domestic league knock out games (Clarkson 3, Heyes 2)
  • Ultimately Clarkson won his final indeed putting in a coming of age performance

Yes Heyes started more frequently for Leicester than Clarkson does for Leinster.

To me this point is quite overstated. Heyes main competition was the now retired 38 year old Dan Cole. Much like Cian Healy, his legs weren't in it to be doing 60 minutes week in week out. Of course Heyes is going to be starting the Lions share of them

Overall there's a strong argument for Heyes to have been brought.

The problem with a 50/50 call is that it guarantees half of the people are on the other side of the decision aren't happy.

Sorry - when you said "anyone anywhere" I clearly incorrectly assumed that a well-known rugby commentator fell into that set. I will revise my dictionary.

Anyway, I'm out.

Some suggestions I've heard that Ahern is more likely to see more gametime under MacMillan at 2nd row than 6, we'll see what way it works out.

It's a big season for him, but he had some big performances last season. Hopefully he can kick on.

Heyes debuted 4 years ago and has 14 caps (4 starts)?

I think Sheehan is definitely a more complete player than Wood but the point above about comparing era is very valid, plus Wood had to play in some god-awful Ireland teams in the 90s, Sheehan has never played either for a national or club team that wasn't pretty close to best in the game so maybe it's been easier for him to look good.

Doris and Keenan will definitely overtake Heaslip and Kearney but not yet IMO.

Peak Murray vs peak JGP, I would give to JGP, but Murray was so good for so long it's hard to call.

Furlong - no one even close.

Beirne is definitely in the mix. Such a pity he was a late bloomer.

An all-time Irish selection would surely have to bump Beirne or O'Connell, for example, for the most capped-ever Lion who captained a series win in SA? Given we've never got further than a QF in the RWC, surely that's the greatest ever achievement by an Irish rugby player? (Also bearing in mind that the RWC didn't exist when McBride played).

Wood had played for Ireland before the game even went pro tho; in that sense, comparing Wood to Ciaran Fitzgerald would be a more meaningful comparison than comparing Sheehan with Wood, tbh.

In that context, you'd pretty much expect Sheehan to be bigger, stronger, faster etc. (and that's not taking anything away from Sheehan who is a phenomenal player).

One area that Wood was undoubtedly better in is leadership - in some sense a more innate thing and a nebulous to teach / coach / train.

People often forget Wood was the first ever World Player of the Year winner, winning it ahead of all-time greats in Gregan, George Smith, Wilkinson and Drico.

If Murray even at his peak had coincided with Dupont he also wouldn't have been in the conversation for best in the world.

I think you're right on the leadership aspect, but would say that it's not a complete comparison at this point. From what I can tell, Keith Wood first captained Ireland in a game against USA when he was 24, but it was Jan 2000 before he took over as captain of the side on a full-time basis (when he was 28). Wood was clearly viewed as a strong leader within the Irish (and Munster and Harlequins squads), but I think Dan Sheehan clearly is seen the same way, and he's still only 26.

Sheehan is in the leadership group for Ireland and Leinster, and was chosen to captain Ireland in this year's 6 Nations when Doris was absent through injury. He also captained Leinster a couple of times this season and captained the Lions in the first game of the tour in Australian soil.

I wouldn't say it tracks that Wood is undoubtedly better in this regard- he was clearly a good leader but there's lot of evidence that Sheehan is viewed the same way at this point in his career.

He may not - but, that's because there's a guy the same age as him or slightly younger who is deemed to be an excellent captain (and likely would have captained the Lions this summer).

It's not the sole barometer though as to whether or not someone's leadership credentials are stellar or not - that was a largely utterly abject Irish team he captained, which wasn't exactly overflowing with strong alternatives.

He didn't captain Harlequins during all his years there - he captained for one season, but they had some other really strong leaders around at the time like Will Carling and Zinzan Brooke - he also didn't captain Munster on his return there - I don't necessarily think those facts suggest Wood isn't a very strong leader, just like I don't think your prediction that Sheehan won't captain Ireland 30 times necessarily means he isn't a very strong leader.

Yeah, I don't disagree on any of your points. It's the difficulty in measuring success of an individual in a team sport - the teams wax and wane while individual players might be exemplary or an empty jersey. It's also impossible to quantify leadership. It takes more leadership to get a mid-table finish out of a poor team than get into the final with a team of galacticos. And that's before we start worrying about coaches and their effect on team fortunes.

But McBride is the most capped Lion ever. He went on five Lions tours (as did Mike Gibson). You still had to be one of the top two or three in your position, at a time when rugby was more popular in England, Wales and Scotland.