Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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or at least thats what it can look like

That's the key thing. Perspective is (obviously) very subjective. What it looks like to you might be very different to how it looks to me, and some other guy might see it completely differently.

Like, there's been absolutely no suggestion from anyone, anywhere that Clarkson was brought in to train with the Lions because of "systems", but that's how it is seen by some posters here, because that's how some posters see every selection.

Maybe if people took a minute to think a bit more about it, they wouldn't be so frustrated. But unfortunately people have made up their minds and they're not for turning.

You're making broad generalisations here.

Like, there's been absolutely no suggestion from anyone, anywhere that Clarkson was brought in to train with the Lions because of "systems", but that's how it is seen by some posters here, because that's how some posters see every selection.

What do you expect the coaches to say? They're never going to say "yes it was a cohesion / systems selection decision" for very obvious reasons, even if it was part of the selection decision.

But I'm pretty sure there's been plenty in the media that have suggested the systems element is part of it.

Maybe if people took a minute to think a bit more about it, they wouldn't be so frustrated. But unfortunately people have made up their minds and they're not for turning.

Condescension aside, maybe if you took a minute to think a bit more about it, you would recognise that whatever way you want to slice it, systems, cohesion, partnerships - however you want to phrase it - literally are a selection consideration. Especially so when it comes to a player who is most likely not going to feature in a Test, and will largely feature for training reps.

Not the only selection consideration. But they literally are a selection consideration, however much you want to dismiss it. But unfortunately you seem to have your mind made up on that and are not for turning…

I have no great issue with the Clarkson call up as there were a lack of alternatives (how's that for "not for turning"? Nuance, neat!).

Here's a larger point. In an Irish context, there absolutely have been times when there have been quality alternatives available and the cohesion / systems selection has been favoured. I think that's completely fair to say. But you won't hear of that either.

And you seem to have your mind made up that "systems / familiarity / cohesion / partnership" never comes into it.

How is that any different?

Looking at my new favourite site too: https://theanalyst.com/club-rugby-stats

Clarkson and Heyes have offered very different strengths this season passed (stats don't include Europe sadly)

Clarkson has a better tackle completion rate (an impressive 92% vs 87%) but admittedly with half the attempts. Even factoring in 350 less minutes Clarkson has played that's quite a gap.

However other facets he's notably better on. Significantly so.

His defensive ruck effectiveness is at 24% vs Heyes 11%. This is a flawed metric somewhat in this site as there are some anomalies of this effectiveness stat.

Worth noting that 24% effectiveness is the highest of any Lions TH.

Other side of the ball here both players are neck and neck in carries and dominant carries essentially. Clarkson has gotten over the gainline more. Notable here that their carry total is the same despite Clarksons 350 less minutes.

Clarkson also has a better ruck effectiveness score on attack too. 83% vs 75%. He has hit 100 less attacking rucks however. A likely pointer to the carry disparity.

This 83% effectiveness does put him at the top for all the other Lions props.

@aloooof

He is 100% a poster who, as he says, has his mind made up.

Heqby back row in a th lock role and an extremely large rangy half lock

Just a bit different to what's there currently bit of a change up option for ireland going forward and the lions next tour

Neither are on the lions and ahern is taller

I didnt say coombes should start at 5 I said hes a th lock style backrow which is a bit different

2 years to the world cup gives good time for a build up

You're correct. I worded that bullet wrong.

Clarkson made his debut as we know.

But I do consider this a breakout season for both

I don't just think Sheehan is a more complete player in totality, I think he's arguably better at almost every aspect of hooker play. It's a fair call out that he's always played in better teams, but that brings more pressure and competition for places too.

Ultimately an all-time Irish selection would be heavily skewed towards the last 8-10 years anyway, because the national team have (by far) been the best ever iteration of an Irish side in that timeframe too.

Id say that's fair. If you compare each player to their peers at the time is probably the best way to measure.

Sheehan is arguably the best hooker in the world and i don't think another Irish hooker has that claim. Furlong the same.

Murray was in the conversation for best in the world and I don't think JGP is. Heaslip nominated for world player of the year. VDF winning world player of the year probably deserves to be in the conversation for best Ireland 7.

Beirne and Keenan probably fair well compared to peers compared to previous Irish players.

Yeah, I think that's a better yardstick. If we assume players across the board, in every nation, are all improving in strength, fitness, speed etc as science and technology progress, it's who's the greatest standout.