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Home heating automation

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,173 ✭✭✭deezell


    And what thermostats are fitted to the new house. Are there basic wired stats in the two zones?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭mel123


    I’m not great at this stuff Deezell so forgive me, but I see the electrician has them all over, kitchen living room and hall, and upstairs I can’t remember not sure if I saw any (I’m not moved in yet so not there right at this moment)


    Edited to add they are digital as opposed to them old fashioned round ones



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,173 ✭✭✭deezell


    Wait till you get in and can figure how many independent zones you have, and and maybe post a picture of them. Good luck with the move in, you'll have your hands full with that for a while, no rush on heating control while summer is on the way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭gar




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,173 ✭✭✭deezell


    Since they bought Nest they've never shown any interest in the product, other than the yellow pack Nest E, which was a low(ish) price bog standard single zone heating only device. It reminds me in many ways of the US attitude to European standards, products and practices. Like their oversized retro truck tractors, which can't be used on European roads, they moan that we don't buy their automotive stuff, failing to understand how superior the technology is this side of the pond.

    Whatever, the 50% off from Tado X is strange, Google have no known stake in Tado, so it must be a redundancy packet of sorts for Nest owners, negotiated with the German firm. If I was a Nest owner, I'd take it up as soon as it becomes available. Perhaps the stats will continue to work from the Home app, or other smart thing apps, but it will probably be very limited. It's in keeping with the general insular rethoric coming from the US. Who'd buy a Tesla now?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 944 ✭✭✭JamBur


    A follow up to the above post, I've had my gen 2 Nest since 2014. I don't want to replace it, but with Google ceasing support, I've no choice.

    I could go with a gen 3, but that is discontinued as well, so how long will support last?

    What's the consensus on the best smart thermostat on the market for a combi boiler (single zone). I don't want anything with a subscription.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭gar


    Think they are taking about getting a special offer on a Tado X in Europe. I have a gen 3 so fine for a while but I have mine wired with my hot water controls and not sure I'll get the Tado to do the same without some quirks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,173 ✭✭✭deezell


    Tado V3 wireless,(€125 in screwfix) or TadoX wireless if you can get it half price from Google as per that article , currently €200 from Tado store.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,173 ✭✭✭deezell


    Tado receiver will work as CH only for combi boiler, or as CH and HW 2 zone controller with identical CH and HW relays to the Nest receiver. Tado has the options of smart radiator TRVs for individual room control, something Nest never considered



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 944 ✭✭✭JamBur


    Is the netatmo on many people's radar? I have the email to get the Tado X, so maybe I'm over thinking this:)

    On a side note, my boiler is opentherm compatible. Does it really give much benefit?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,173 ✭✭✭deezell


    Judging by that paucity of posts here, I would say it's not particularly popular. On the plus side, it was the only other of the new generation smart stats that had a wired version like Tado, to facilitate a straight swap for wall mounted basic wired stats. On the minus side, it never had hot water relay equipped receiver or HW timing in the app, it was very much a stat for European style installations with combi boilers and direct HW.

    On the subject of OpenTherm, there are some efficiency advantages to be had, as boiler flow temperature is 'known' to the thermostat and will be adjusted to the minimum to maintain set temperature while increasing condenser boiler efficiency. Most smart stats controlling conventional boiler switching using simple on/off control will achieve a degree of similar efficiency control by using Proportional Integral Differential switching of the boiler in response to the difference in set and actual temperature. Tado does this using modulated bursts of boiler cycles. Your Nest Thermostat receiver, the 'Heatlink' box, has OT terminals for wiring to OT enabled boilers, so you could have tried it out on your Combi boiler if you wished. The Tado Wired stat also has OT wiring terminals, but would need wiring from the current Nest Thermostat location to the Heatlink location, as most Nest are wirelessly installed. An isolated cable pair is required for low voltage OT stats or their OT equipped receiver. If using the Tado wireless stat for OT control, you have to specify the one with the European reciver, which has OT wiring terminals as well as CH on/off relay, but no HW zone relay. In @gar's case. He would need the irish/UK version with a HW relay in the receiver to control both CH and HW zones. This model does not have OT terminals or control.

    If you opt for an OT connection to a combi boiler, the Tado does have some app control of Direct HW temperature from the combi as it can communicate with the boiler's software, and afaik, it can also turn on or off the HW preheat, which keeps a small amount of HW preheated in the boiler's heat exchanger to reduce HW time lag to the tap which is a feature of direct HW combi boilers. I'd imagine neither of these two features are something you'd adjust frequently, set and forget.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,173 ✭✭✭deezell


    On the email, are they offering you the Tado X Wireless starter kit for half, for €100? Grab it if so. Get the OT receiver as you have a combi. You can use it or the CH relay, which I assume is how your current boiler is hooked up. I've only ever configured one Tado V2 to use OT, reconfigured actually, in a family members home in the Netherlands, after they added a new Internet bridge and the stat reverted to CH relay, but was still wired to OT. Gave the instructions over the phone while they pressed the stat buttons through the menus. It worked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 944 ✭✭✭JamBur


    Yes, its the Tado X Wireless starter kit for 100. Im just trying to dot my i's and cross my t's. My boiler requires a plug to connect to the opentherm connections. Im having hassle locating a seller.

    https://idealcommercialboilers.com/uploads/documents/installation-servicing-opentherm-harness-kit.pdf

    kit.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 944 ✭✭✭JamBur


    For reference for anyone that needs, the connector is a Lumberg Rast 3611 connector. Fanell sell them for peanuts. The internet is a great resource:)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,173 ✭✭✭deezell


    Excellent, though you'd expect Ideal to have included the 5 pin plug, but perhaps it prevents numptys accidently wiring 220v into the low voltage data pins. TadoX receiver with HW relay from Tado UK site can also do OT according to the bumf.

    https://uk.shop.tado.com/products/wireless-smart-thermostat-x-starter-kit-incl-programmer-with-hot-water-control-and-opentherm

    Tado.com site for European market has the receiver with CH only and OT terminals. https://shop.tado.com/products/wireless-smart-thermostat-x-starter-kit



  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 7,564 Mod ✭✭✭✭pleasant Co.


    was going to pick up a switch bot for the immersion in the hot press, unfortunately the current dual switch type is incompatible with switch bot so I’ll have to swap that out and as I’ll be doing that anyway I’m wondering what smarter options might be on the market?

    For reference I also have gas fired ch/hw in a 90’s style s-plan configuration controlled by a tado x receiver.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,173 ✭✭✭deezell


    You'll have to swap the twin immersion toggle for a smart switch. You can choose either of the immersion elements to use with this, or both together if the switch capacity is sufficient. This one below is a single pole but is rated for 40 amps, which would allow both elements to run together for maximum full cylinder heating.

    https://www.amazon.ie/Immersion-Heater-Switch-Control-Assistant/dp/B0CKTFNCB3/ref%3Dasc_df_B0CKTFNCB3



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭Same As


    Hi folks,

    Hoping for a bit of a steer!

    Renovating a 1995 semi d at present. There was no existing wired thermostats in the house and there was an old analogue clock timer for controlling heating.

    Have installed a new Firebird Oil Boiler and there are three zones, Ground floor Heating, First Floor Heating and Hot Water. Had cable run provisionally for an EPH 3 channel controller, but would love to put in Smart Heating controls, that can be controlled remotely via an App & via Google Home.

    Post edited by Same As on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,691 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    EPH are already smart. You just need to add the gateway.

    what version of hardware have you ?

    Post edited by ted1 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭Same As


    Hi Ted,

    I don't have any heating/hot water controls installed as of yet.

    Do you have a smart EPH system set up yourself?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,691 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    I just got the EpH e-are system Basically each rad is a zone. Seems to be a good system. The app is one of the next and simplistic that I’ve seen. Centrally commit on its functionality as it only just installed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,173 ✭✭✭deezell


    Drayton wiser Kit 3, or Hive, a CH+HW wireless stat/receiver with hub and an extra CH only stat/ receiver. I think Tado/TadoX still limited to one only wireless stat receiver, so one CH zone will require a wired stat. Optional radiators smart TRVs can also be added to all these.

    I haven't looked at the latest EPH, the Ember was just a wireless version of their 3 zone wired controller, with optional Internet gateway. Very limited timer slot control, no programmable variation in set wall stat temperature, and no google/alexa/etc integration, ni weather predictive algorithm, away mode, OpenTherm, and all the other little smart bits. Must read and see where it's at now, as @ted1 mentions e-are system and TRV control



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,691 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Up to 16 zones ,

    Each one independently controlled


    several schedules per day. Each day can be different, holiday mode, etc

    IMG_5089.png IMG_5090.png


    the hot water is done really welll. It’s does away with motorised valve. And is basically a modified smart TRV. The installers said they love installing them as they are so clean and straight forward


    Full integration with Google home and Alexa

    IMG_5091.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭Same As


    Thanks a lot for the detailed reply Ted.

    So am I right saying that you have:

    1. The EPH RF-16 controller.
    2. EPH eTRV-HW in your hot water cylinder.
    3. EPH eTRVs on all radiators in all rooms in the house.
    4. EPH GW04 gateway for Google Home/Ember app control of your system.

    Is that right? Anything else part of the system?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭Same As


    Thank you very much for the reply Deezell. I am looking at the Drayton Wiser options, as you have mentioned. I think I prefer the idea of the two stat/receivers as opposed to individual eTRVs in every room from a cost perspective for now. Childlock feature is handy, but might be of interest to a wandering toddler!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,173 ✭✭✭deezell


    Tell me about the toddlers. My 18 month granddaughter can toddle faster than I can walk.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,691 ✭✭✭✭ted1




  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 10,154 ✭✭✭✭mik_da_man


    FWIW I went with the Drayton Wiser system a year ago and find it great. I didn't choose EPH at the time as the tech wasn't as advanced and the Drayton was much cheaper.

    New EPH sounds better, but I'd guess it's still more expensive



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 944 ✭✭✭WildCardDoW


    Drayton has an alleged local control bonus as well. I saw "alleged" as I've not used it.

    If EPH were able to guarantee or add that I think they'd get more business.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60 ✭✭Jellybean73


    Just wondering did you replace this system? I also have the 3 zone system (upstairs, downstairs and hot water) being controlled by Climote. There are constant issues with Climote and difficult to contact the company, and their suggestion is for me to purchase a newer model, which does exactly the same as the original model. I would prefer to replace the Climote with a new wifi/remote access system that can also be used with Amazon Alexa or similar…. Does anyone have any suggestions? I have a Bosch system/regular boiler. I have been looking at Tado, Hive, Honeywell and Heatmiser. Confused by it all. I also looked at the Bosch easy controls (which are hit and miss apparently). I would like to be able to set up 7 day timers with several time settings throughout the day and to be able to use my phone remotely to access the system, as well as Alexa. Also use two wireless rf/wifi thermostats. Was looking at radiator smart valves as an option also.

    Would be really grateful for some advice….

    Want to do self-installation

    Many thanks



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