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DART+ (DART Expansion)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,655 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    They could with resurfacing the road either side while they're at it, I regularly cycle across the LC and it's like the surface of the moon.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Maybe they will, but there is a pile of railway tracks beside the line waiting to be used. They can resurface another time, or do it this weekend.

    They resurface that bit, and repaint the yellow box frequently. Does not last long.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    They will have to resurface the crossing because they have to rip it all up to replace the tracks. Hopefully, they will replace the metal plates so that the result is decent. Let us they do a decent job.

    We will find out on Tuesday morning.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    I am surprised the car showroom JR has been resolved, considering they were claiming the overpass would put them out of business I wonder if they negotiated some kind of huge compensation amount.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    They have finished the Sydney Parade LC and resufaced a bit either side of it. The new yellow boxes are painted in bright yellow and all looks great.

    They have been working on the new signalling and that may have been part of the reason for the work.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭Taisteal Éireann




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭Consonata


    They won't deliver w/o dual tracking in practice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,655 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    They still haven't published any sort of plan for the south east Dart. So it's delayed a year on a timeline that no one has seen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,929 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    They are never going to Dual Track Greystones to Wicklow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,655 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    I wonder if they're planning to skip the consultation on Dart+ South East (which is now 2 years overdue) and just treat it as engineering works.

    With the crossing closures no longer part of the plan all that's left is a passing loop, track works and station upgrades, which is all on Irish Rail property and could probably be done with a small number of planning applications.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,929 ✭✭✭GerardKeating




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 436 ✭✭Ireland trains


    Have plans for reducing journey times on the Connolly-Greystones line ever been seriously discussed. I just find it mad how the train takes as long to get to Dundalk as Greystones. If they paved over the line you’d almost cycle it as quick!
    Would passing loops at Dalkey/Blackrock be feasible, or perhaps DARTs could be sped up instead, as they often seem to trundle along.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,706 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Well the new DARTs have a higher top speed 145km/h versus 110km/h of the current fleet. Also possibly better acceleration. So you might see some improvements, but probably not too significant.

    No hope of a passing loops on the line.

    Closing the level crossings would help too, but that is a troublesome project.

    Maybe they could do some stop skipping like Copenhagen does. But the reality of this route is that the focus is on capacity, not speed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,655 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    times are going to increase with the opening of the new station at Woodbrook, which is in the middle of one of the few sections where the trains get up to speed. There's very little scope for passing and Irish Rails total inability to run to schedule would make it a recipe for problems anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,929 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    One option might be to tripple/quad track between Dún Laoghaire and Merrion Gates..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Surely there isn't space on the land side and not a mission of it happening on the seaward side? It would be mired in EIAs and legal battles for decades?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Not a hope.

    Be realistic here, there's a 10-minute DART frequency and various permanent speed restrictions along the line, particularly around Bray Head and between Killiney and Dún Laoghaire.

    There is no room for extra tracks or speed increases (outside of anything the new stock can deliver in terms of acceleration).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 436 ✭✭Ireland trains


    Could a passing loop not fit at Dalkey or maybe Blackrock station?

    While I appreciate that the line faces constraints, there seems be zero will for any sort of improvements on what is a substandard service for those south of Bray.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,706 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Absolutely not - there is just no space. Where would you put them????

    Even if it were possible, how would that even work with the 10 minute DART service?

    You’d have DARTs sitting at stations waiting for following trains to pass and the whole 10 minute service pattern destroyed.

    We have to be realistic here given the constraints of the infrastructure along the coastal south route. There will be a loop between Bray and Greystones, but that’s about it.

    Don’t get me wrong, I remain in favour of the InterCity operating to/from Connolly but it will have to fit around the DART service pattern. There will also be frequency increases to Wicklow and hopefully further south, but expecting speed improvements is unrealistic given the infrastructure constraints.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭Consonata


    The only last item which could potentially squeeze more capacity out of north of Bray is closing the LC's and terminating IC's at Bray. After that, the only way of increasing capacity north of Bray is extending Metrolink to Bray in practice.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek



    When were crossing closures removed from the plan? The ones from Sandymount-Mount Merrion?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    I think technically they haven't, the Dart+ South scheme has simply disappeared off the radar entirely since basically its initial stages so the presumption is that the LCs killed it and the rest of the scheme will just be done as minor upgrade works with local planning.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24 orb123


    Came across the Pre-feasibility report for extending the DART to Wicklow.

    As far as I can tell, it hasn't been posted here before but apologies if it has. Might be slightly out of date in parts, but an interesting read nonetheless.

    Wicklow Capacity Improvements



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,033 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    The NTA pulled the plug on DART+ coastal south as soon as it was ready for public consultation almost 2 years ago. They just did not want the fight while the other DART projects still hadn't broke ground



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,661 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Several tenders related to DART+ have appeared in the last week

    Electrification contractor

    https://www.etenders.gov.ie/epps/cft/prepareViewCfTWS.do?resourceId=5538873

    Civil and structural contractor

    https://www.etenders.gov.ie/epps/cft/prepareViewCfTWS.do?resourceId=5642933

    D&B for Spencer Dock

    https://www.etenders.gov.ie/epps/cft/prepareViewCfTWS.do?resourceId=5647341

    Rail systems contractor for DART+ South West

    https://www.etenders.gov.ie/epps/cft/prepareViewCfTWS.do?resourceId=5643062



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 307 ✭✭PlatformNine


    https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/news/market-process-to-help-deliver-dart-programme-unde

    I was looking at the article describing the new tenders, and it says that the preferred option has been developed and it is supposed to go to "planning" mid-2025. I am assuming "planning" in this context means the first round of public consultation rather than say going to ABP, as it is a requirement of the RO process.

    But does this mean they are finally ready to start progressing D+ South? or could this just be referring to the Bray-Wicklow work? My understanding is that D+ south is technically two phases now, with Bray-Wicklow being phase one, and CC-Bray being phase two. But I was unclear how they would approach the two phases.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,655 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    As discussed above, do they need public consultation? The main proposed works are some track changes and platform extensions. The level crossing closures have been put on the long finger.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Others may be inured to the endless planning hell that these projects are stuck in, but I'm not.
    Why oh why can Dart West be granted planning permission in July 2024 but enabling is not starting until 2026 and contract award until the end of 2026? Two and a half years to get from planning permission to contract award is not exactly "hitting the ground running." It can't all be due to litigation.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    I'll admit I'm a bit confused about why things like general tendering etc can't be lined up while waiting for ABP to approve projects, even winnowing down tenders to a final few with decision made after approval and some sort of minor compensation for the work done preparing tender in the event its rejected?



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